Unfounded Criticisms Of Warframe- And Warframe In Relation To Progressive And Feminist Ideals

[kuri99]

Sadly most people that claim to be feminists dont really understand what feminism is. As my grandmother told me many times before she passed they marched for equality not because they thought they were better then someone else.

 

In a way I suppose the internet is to blame. Unified movements of crazy were rare pre-internet but now everyone gets a chance to say what they want and have an audience for it. Today you get "feminists" that believe when me and my fiance make love its rape because a penis is entering a vagina. Another quite famous feminist believes there is a massive conspiracy through all entertainment industries trying to oppress and objectify women at every opportunity. Really the best thing we can do is look at these crazy ideas and ignore them. I understand wanting to confront them but really that just gives more attention to them

 

Edit: Oh and on Warframe and feminism. Warframe is one of the most equal games out there. Every character whether male or female is powerful (hell Nova is arguably the most destructive frame in the game) but theyre powerful in different ways. Just like real people. Also as another point, warframe does a great job showing a large variety of different body types as well. Saryn is a voluptuous woman but Nova is quite slim, small breasted, and lithe. The males actually have less body types represented. You have the massive body type of Rhino, the muscular but not overly so Ash, an average bodied Volt. If the males are missing anything I would say its the more effeminate or lithe body types

 

Good on DE for having such a wide variety of body types in the warframes. They should be commended for that

Edited August 24, 2014 by kuri99

[jennibear]

Is WF design sexist as a whole? Yes. Does it matter? No, give me more slooty girls like Valkyr, plox.

how? they don't even show skin lol. it's literally the female anatomy with a tight suit. is it sexy? yes, but so are the male frames lol

[arch111]

Stupid people are everywhere.

Sadly this is all too common and whats wose, takes the heat of the real bad games out there.

There are not alot in Warframes design I have a problem with. Sure some stereotypes do exist, like intrikate armor for men and bathingsuit style snug suits for women.

But then that is the only thing thats mainstream, this is not wow, Devil May Cry, or just about any Korean mmo where everything is either barbie or He-man.

Do I wish we had female frames with more armor and proper suits? Absolutely.

Do I think about them as sexy and weak in the games universe? No.

De understand the need for appreciation of the beauty of the female form, but still manage to stay clear of extreme body proportions.

This is pretty damn cool.

[CaptainJohnson]

Is WF design sexist as a whole? Yes. Does it matter? No, give me more slooty girls like Valkyr, plox.

 

u wot m8

 

Please, Warframe isn't even slightly sexist. Having females with discernible feminine qualities doesn't somehow constitute sexism, no matter who tells you that's the case. At least make a case for it, so I can more thoroughly debunk your claim. Even if you're somehow "okay with it," then you could instead say that "yes, the women in Warframe are sexier and appeal to a male audience, but that does not necessarily make it sexist," which I would disagree with for this game in particular but would agree with on principle.

[Hueminator]

I guess nerfing nova is also "attempts to make women weak" lol.  About sexism, no matter what you do there will be someone nitpicking.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Hueminator

[Rakshal]

I guess nerfing nova is also "attempts to make women weak" lol.  About sexism, no matter what you do there will be someone point out some stuff and say it is sexism.

That "nerf" to Nova was more like a buff.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

how? they don't even show skin lol. it's literally the female anatomy with a tight suit. is it sexy? yes, but so are the male frames lol

You play as Valkyr, right?  You've seen dat @$$. I rest my case.

 

Edit:  Ever hear about latex fetishes?

 

 

u wot m8

 

Please, Warframe isn't even slightly sexist. Having females with discernible feminine qualities doesn't somehow constitute sexism, no matter who tells you that's the case. At least make a case for it, so I can more thoroughly debunk your claim. Even if you're somehow "okay with it," then you could instead say that "yes, the women in Warframe are sexier and appeal to a male audience, but that does not necessarily make it sexist," which I would disagree with for this game in particular but would agree with on principle.

With a few rare exceptions, the females are designed in such a way that their erogenous zones are heavily emphasised.  This is not really the case with the male frames.

 

I don't care that it is sexiest, but at the same time, I can recognize that it is sexist. I don't consider it a problem, which I will try to avoid getting into it unless asked to expand on it in specific ways.

Edited August 24, 2014 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Tatann]

If Warframe is sexist, it's certainly against males ! All female warframes are more powerful than male :

- DPS : Nova

- CC : Nyx

- Tank/berzerk : Valkyr

- Mobility (and tank... and a bit of CC) : Zephyr

- Healer/support (and tank once again) : Trinity

 

The only missing style would be stealth since both Loki and Ash are male, but still, women are goddesses in this game

[Dasmir]

"Feminist and tumblr"

 

Why people still posting in this thread ?

[RoboDoge]

You play as Valkyr, right?  You've seen dat @$$. I rest my case.

 

Edit:  Ever hear about latex fetishes?

 

 

With a few rare exceptions, the females are designed in such a way that their erogenous zones are heavily emphasised.  This is not really the case with the male frames.

 

I don't care that it is sexiest, but at the same time, I can recognize that it is sexist. I don't consider it a problem, which I will try to avoid getting into it unless asked to expand on it in specific ways.

Not so.

 

 

If you see erogenous zones as emphisized on female frames, then its you. Males would look at female attributes in 90 % of cases, and that doesnt make us sexist. If noticing how women look is sexists, i am biggest sexist around.

Edited August 24, 2014 by RoboDoge

[jennibear]

You play as Valkyr, right?  You've seen dat @$$. I rest my case.

 

Edit:  Ever hear about latex fetishes?

ehh? that's not even latex. you're ridiculous.

 

The men in the game have just as much anatomy showing as the females do.... it's definitely not sexism.

 

the fact that you're even considering it that just makes you a pervert if anything lmao which is pretty apparent

Edited August 24, 2014 by jennibear

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Not so.

Then just google image search latex.  Warning: Your search results may not be entirely SFW!!!

 

 

ehh? that's not even latex. you're ridiculous.

 

The men in the game have just as much anatomy showing as the females do.... it's definitely not sexism.

 

the fact that you're even considering it that just makes you a pervert if anything lmao which is pretty apparent

Do the male frames have huge skin-tight bulges, leaving nothing to the imagination, similar to the Valkyr's T&A?

 

Your ad hominem fallacy won't change anything either.

Edited August 24, 2014 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[RoboDoge]

Then just google image search latex.  Warning: Your search results may not be entirely SFW!!!

If you see them as latex wearing persons then you might have issues. I never thought about them like that.

 

 

Just tell me what is sexist one Nyx. She is one of the best looking females in games, close to the new Lara Croft. Hands down strongest frame in game and quite decent and believable body.

[slumpyvanguard]

Ok to be clear I read both of the articles. First, Warframe hasn't been in beta for "several years" LOL and second, the Tenno aren't confirmed as human. So there could be a various number of "sexes" and physical features that define a "female" and "male" warframe. Third, I think there was an official announcement that the warframes are a channeling technology that simply distribute the Tenno's power. So for all we know, the Tenno might not be even solid in nature. They could be pure energy. I'll quote Salad V from the Gradivus Dillema when you supported the corpus "Speech 1: Tenno, you know, we may not always see eye to eye... well, you don't have eyes, but I'm pleased to see we've found common ground in our fight with these Grineer dogs." The Tenno don't have eyes according to Salad V. So, for all we know they could be anything.

This is very true! This is a really interesting discussion that is really anotherwhole thread in itself- whether or not the Tenno are human at all (post, transhuman or not) and what implications that has. The article I wrote was speculation and also how it comes off to many players- not really concerning canon.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

If you see them as latex wearing persons then you might have issues. I never thought about them like that.

Nice try at a deflection.  The point is that the female suits are pretty much body socks.  Someone pointed out that that could not be sexy because no skin was shown.  Then I point out that skin is not shown in Latex fetishes either.  Instead of trying to counter the argument, you instead try to attack me personally (ad hominem) by accusing me of being a pervert. 

[vaugahn]

Nice try at a deflection. The point is that the female suits are pretty much body socks. Someone pointed out that that could not be sexy because no skin was shown. Then I point out that skin is not shown in Latex fetishes either. Instead of trying to counter the argument, you instead try to attack me personally (ad hominem) by accusing me of being a pervert.

Sexism is when someone is treated differently because of their gender or sex, it has nothing to do with how much skin they show or how tight their clothes I are. All the frames are treated the same, regardless of what they look like. They're also good about showing different body types, and only a few frames are having their erogenous zones emphasized like you said.

Edited August 24, 2014 by vaugahn

[Vastaren]

10/10 would read again.

 

I'm glad to see people who also feel that feminism could be interchangeably referred to as gender-equality. The notion that females deserve equal representation in gaming is what we all strive for, but the stigma of the phrase 'feminism' is all too often used in the context of demonising males, which completely undermines the nature of the feminist movement. Neither does elevating women to a status above men just by virtue of the fact that they have a different shape lie parallel to the underlying philosophy.

 

Warframe is, as stated before, a pretty even-handed game in terms of male-female representation in both gameplay and lore. The design is nothing you wouldn't see in a game aimed at appealing equally to both genders, I feel. I don't see any evidence to suggest sexist nuances in the design of specific frames such that it doesn't either match their lore or their playstyle. I think perspective has played a key role in calling frames out for being 'oversexed', which is what I think you're trying to get at. Maybe it's the lack of lore surrounding the game itself which leads to speculation that can often skew a point of view heavily, or the fact that cultural perceptions of a female body paint this issue in a different light, and hence fundamental differences in the way we think about things will lend an opposing view on the topic of gender-neutrality in Warframe.

 

In regards to the Tumblr post, I don't see it as having been trolled by the firestarter. If anything, the passion with which our players argued only serves to show us how genuinely they feel in regards to these issues, and remind us how reasonable people can be, reaffirming their beliefs in a medium which actively discourages rational argument. If anything, the content provided by the 'troll' brought out the best in those who responded honestly and with conviction. +1 to you awesome guys.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Sexism is when someone is treated differently because of their gender or sex

 

They're also good about showing different body types, and only a few frames are having their erogenous zones emphasized like you said.

And like I said, their designs are sexist. The female frame designs are handled differently.

 

Where are the fattie frames?  Muscular and slightly more muscular isn't really a wide range of body types.

[(NSW)LilVanu]

Not so.

 

 

If you see erogenous zones as emphisized on female frames, then its you. Males would look at female attributes in 90 % of cases, and that doesnt make us sexist. If noticing how women look is sexists, i am biggest sexist around.

 

If you want reference. I notice the male parts.

Dat Nekros... Rhino.

 

I gotta say DE you got some talented 3D modelers. hehehe.

On the topic I tend to laugh at anything from tumblr because mostly it's from a crazy person; a troll or somebody really delusional.

 

 

The only games I have problems with are Korean mmo's because it makes playing a female character really unnerving.

I want to be my own gender; but I have to stare at bare @$$.

 

For once I want to be a mage in appropriately dressed attire. Usually: I'm on a snowy mountain and all this girl has on is a tight bikini. There I'm thinking "Somebody is going to get some serious frost bite..."

 

 

 

I dig games with sex appeal for both genders...

Let's not be unreasonable.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Lilliannette

[jennibear]

Do the male frames have huge skin-tight bulges, leaving nothing to the imagination, similar to the Valkyr's T&A?

 

Your ad hominem fallacy won't change anything either.

you have to be trolling... 

 

Males have significantly less detail on their bodies when it comes to anatomy, especially if they are not muscular, so when you see a SUIT on a male warframe, they don't have the boobs to emphasize. Furthermore you can clearly see bulges on almost all the male warframes besides frost and oberon, because that area is covered. You could take trinity for example of that, because she doesn't really have these things, since they are covered with other armors.

 

The only reason you notice these things is because you are a male, I don't ever look at the females that way because I am a female and see it everyday....

 

get it in your head that they are SUITS that are supposed to be FRAMED around their bodies for movement, so they HAVE to be tight in a sense

[RoboDoge]

Nice try at a deflection.  The point is that the female suits are pretty much body socks.  Someone pointed out that that could not be sexy because no skin was shown.  Then I point out that skin is not shown in Latex fetishes either.  Instead of trying to counter the argument, you instead try to attack me personally (ad hominem) by accusing me of being a pervert. 

I didnt call you a pervert, you said that yourself. Why do you feel threatened if i say that you see them as latex wearing people?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I didnt call you a pervert, you said that yourself. Why do you feel threatened if i say that you see them as latex wearing people?

It has nothing to do with being threatened, and the reply wasn't directed  solely at you.  You implied it, but other people said it outright:

 

the fact that you're even considering it that just makes you a pervert

[Vastaren]

Where are the fattie frames?  Muscular and slightly more muscular isn't really a wide range of body types.

Vauban needs to lay off the milk.

 

Let's not forget that Warframe isn't a game defined by its design choices in regards to body archetypes. 'Muscular', 'More Muscular', 'Fattie' shouldn't come into play as defining factor, but rather as a consequence of the context in which the frames are introduced. They are muscular because, generally, we'd expect them to be as a result of them being 'space ninjas', but because they're male or female, the distinction of which I think has been a bit blurred here.

[jjpdn]

This discussion seems going nowhere and WILL go nowhere.

You're all just gonna insult each other.

 

Anyways, my opinion:

I want to play Warframe. That's all. It could all males, all females, or mono-gendered, or a new third gender for all I care. 

Though, I feel that Warframe actually portrays characters correctly.

Warframe is in Beta after all, so..

 

get it in your head that they are SUITS that are supposed to be FRAMED around their bodies for movement, so they HAVE to be tight in a sense

100% true. A loose fitting armor who SUCK. It would always get in the way.

Edited August 24, 2014 by jjpdn

[jennibear]

It has nothing to do with being threatened, and the reply wasn't directed  solely at you.  You implied it, but other people said it outright:

lol his discussion with you has nothing to do with mine