Trinity Balanced - The Final Gate

[Azawarau]

no i've revive skill happen when enimies are any lvl the shared DR has A little effect on teammates as it does you And that Suggestion that you say you have is inconculsive to the point in hand that trinity will never ever be a beast warframe agian she will now be chosen as a third party warframe

Have you not taken trinity on anything?

 

She never dies and batteries the team

 

She also heals and is immune to procs

 

In all honesty shes already overpowered

 

 

she should instant revive thats what she was made to do if now take nek desecrate away rhino iron skin and the rest of the warframes main ability and just mix um up the main question in hand is will she ever be back as 1 of the best warframe out meaning she will defiantly have to get buffed or they could always take her away and remake totally?!!

Shes a support not a failure prevention

 

I dont think enough people understand that

[(PSN)X007GOLD]

Than you tell me this why havent any talked about her or used her sense except you she not overpowered like you say because if she was everyone you see would have anything but her all i have to say is they listened to people who fussed about her killing everything got tired and nerfed her that should tell people to keep there mouth closed people understand but wont listen.

[TrinityPrime]

thats why numb to the fact all your thinking is well ill go to this mission and spam blessing where's you shooting something one shot kill wich she had at first then all the rest came agter your still dying and teammates were before u could spam no one dies thats why is was popular #1 back then now people are comparing her to nek thats sad

 

Bandwagon (also, Argument from Common Sense, Argumentum ad populum): The fallacy of arguing that because "everyone" supposedly thinks or does something, it must be right. E.g., "Everyone knows that undocumented aliens ought to be kicked out!" Sometimes also includes Lying with Statistics, e.g. “Surveys show that over 75% of Americans believe Senator Snith is not telling the truth. For anyone with half a brain, that conclusively proves he’s a dirty liar!”

 

 

no i've revive skill happen when enimies are any lvl the shared DR has A little effect on teammates as it does you And that Suggestion that you say you have is inconculsive to the point in hand that trinity will never ever be a beast warframe agian she will now be chosen as a third party warframe

 

Essentializing: A fallacy that proposes a person or thing “is what it is and that’s all that it is,” and at its core will always be what it is right now (E.g., "All terrorists are monsters, and will still be terrorist monsters even if they live to be 100."). Also refers to the fallacy of arguing that something is a certain way "by nature," an empty claim that no amount of proof can refute. (E.g., "Americans are cold and greedy by nature," or "Women are better cooks than men.")

 

 

she should instant revive thats what she was made to do if now take nek desecrate away rhino iron skin and the rest of the warframes main ability and just mix um up the main question in hand is will she ever be back as 1 of the best warframe out meaning she will defiantly have to get buffed or they could always take her away and remake totally?!!

 

Non Sequitur: The fallacy of offering reasons or conclusions that have no logical connection to the argument at hand (e.g. “The reason I flunked your course is because the government is now putting out purple five-dollar bills!”). (See also Red Herring.)

 

Occasionally involves the breathtaking arrogance of claiming to know why God is doing certain things. E.g., "Obviously, God sent the earthquake to punish those people for their great wickedness."

 

 

Than you tell me this why havent any talked about her or used her sense except you she not overpowered like you say because if she was everyone you see would have anything but her all i have to say is they listened to people who fussed about her killing everything got tired and nerfed her that should tell people to keep there mouth closed people understand but wont listen.

 

Argumentum ex Silentio (see also, Argument from Ignorance). The fallacy that if sources remain silent or say nothing about a given subject or question this in itself proves something about the truth of the matter. E.g., "Science can tell us nothing about God. That proves God doesn't exist." Or "Science admits it can tell us nothing about God, so you have no basis for denying that God exists!" Often misused in the American justice system, where remaining silent or "taking the Fifth" is often falsely portrayed as proof of guilt. E.g., "Mr. Hixel has no alibi for the evening of January 15th. This proves that he was in fact in room 331 at the Smuggler's Pass Inn, murdering his wife!" 

[W4RM3CH4N1C]

 

Bandwagon (also, Argument from Common Sense, Argumentum ad populum): The fallacy of arguing that because "everyone" supposedly thinks or does something, it must be right. E.g., "Everyone knows that undocumented aliens ought to be kicked out!" Sometimes also includes Lying with Statistics, e.g. “Surveys show that over 75% of Americans believe Senator Snith is not telling the truth. For anyone with half a brain, that conclusively proves he’s a dirty liar!”

 

 

 

Essentializing: A fallacy that proposes a person or thing “is what it is and that’s all that it is,” and at its core will always be what it is right now (E.g., "All terrorists are monsters, and will still be terrorist monsters even if they live to be 100."). Also refers to the fallacy of arguing that something is a certain way "by nature," an empty claim that no amount of proof can refute. (E.g., "Americans are cold and greedy by nature," or "Women are better cooks than men.")

 

 

 

Non Sequitur: The fallacy of offering reasons or conclusions that have no logical connection to the argument at hand (e.g. “The reason I flunked your course is because the government is now putting out purple five-dollar bills!”). (See also Red Herring.)

 

Occasionally involves the breathtaking arrogance of claiming to know why God is doing certain things. E.g., "Obviously, God sent the earthquake to punish those people for their great wickedness."

 

 

 

Argumentum ex Silentio (see also, Argument from Ignorance). The fallacy that if sources remain silent or say nothing about a given subject or question this in itself proves something about the truth of the matter. E.g., "Science can tell us nothing about God. That proves God doesn't exist." Or "Science admits it can tell us nothing about God, so you have no basis for denying that God exists!" Often misused in the American justice system, where remaining silent or "taking the Fifth" is often falsely portrayed as proof of guilt. E.g., "Mr. Hixel has no alibi for the evening of January 15th. This proves that he was in fact in room 331 at the Smuggler's Pass Inn, murdering his wife!" 

 

 

 

Wow!

 

Impressive!

 

I mean really impressive - talk about face the arguer with his own points!

 

Honestly can't stand the way some people type, use punctuation!

 

We take breaths when we're talking or does "007Gold" just have the lung capacity of a Blue Whale?

 

Spelling, grammar, punctuation in that order please :-)

 

Anyway Trin is fine how she is, she needed the nerf and I've been in plenty of missions where a random has brought her with, and more to the point there are normally zero complaints!.

 

All this talk she isn't viable should only be countered by "she should be made more interesting", like all the frames, there should be a touch more "interaction" between the powers of the frames in the team (hopefully helping to negate these selfish solo-style players who felt like being miserable in a team).

 

What form would this take? Not entirely sure, but squad based skills would be nice, a point where you all agree to use all ya energy and say half ya current health to execute a teamskill that all 4 players would have to ok (dependent on the combination of frames in that team?), but then again this goes OT

 

Regards

[Im_All_In]

wait wat?!?! Oh my i was hating trinity because shes useless now(cant heal pod,cant god mode) but she CAN heal player with well of life?!?! holy holy

[(PSN)X007GOLD]

Yah that's fine and all but all I was saying is that either she could at least get a buff like Loki or be primed so should could at least don't just be a healer you want to be able for her to do T4 survival or defense by her self not exterminate Loki could do that?!! Then and only will people see her full potential not only just 1 person

[TwiceDead]

Too strong

 

In all honesty i like well of life where it is

 

If i had a bit more space id throw it on my build..

 

I second this. 

Well of Life would be way too strong with this suggestion. For a number 1 ability, being able to revive allies instantly for little to no cost is just way too much. 

Maybe if it drained all your energy when you attempted to revive an ally and prevented energy regeneration for a couple of seconds, casting Well of Life on a cooldown as well. 

Then maybe. . . 

[(PSN)X007GOLD]

Blessing and well of life would and should only cost 100 energy link should only cost 25 with a little buff to power damage that's all people who really play as trinity ask

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I second this. 

Well of Life would be way too strong with this suggestion. For a number 1 ability, being able to revive allies instantly for little to no cost is just way too much. 

Maybe if it drained all your energy when you attempted to revive an ally and prevented energy regeneration for a couple of seconds, casting Well of Life on a cooldown as well. 

Then maybe. . . 

I don't get how giving the medic/healer/white mage character the power to res other players could be considered OP in a Co-op game.  She wouldn't be able to use it on herself. If you really feel that way then please elaborate on it.

[(PSN)X007GOLD]

Me neither

[Rhekinos]

I agree that your suggestion is a bit too op. Instant long-ranged revives are definitely game breaking. Turning WoL into something like that just takes Trinity from support level to god tier. This isn't about making a support character better. This is outright making her a must in every mission (high level at least). There needs to be an inherent risk to falling in battle. If the risk is negated and you know full well that your friend can easily rez you up in no time then players will no longer fear bleed outs. Then you'll have all sorts of reckless noobs rushing head first into a group of level 30 toxic eximus.

 

Well of Life could be made more interesting and interact with the bleed out mechanic. Maybe as someone had suggested- make it extend the bleed out duration. Then you'd still have to rez your fallen comrade manually but then it overlaps with Oberon's Renewal. In any case, WoL is good enough as it is when you notice how much more useful her other skills are compared to most of her fellow tenno. Plus, well of life can be really useful when you need codex scans...

[(PSN)X007GOLD]

Well life is so overrated now you barely have enough time to revive your self while leaving teammates to die that's why it should cost 125 energy for extra Op. Link should cost 50 to 75 energy for Op meaning they'll have to boost energy max and power just at a cost of a lot of energy not to much to ask for or prime her

[TwiceDead]

I don't get how giving the medic/healer/white mage character the power to res other players could be considered OP in a Co-op game.  She wouldn't be able to use it on herself. If you really feel that way then please elaborate on it.

It's obvious.

There is normally a risk involved when you attempt to revive a player. Either you have to dispose of / temporarily disable a mass of enemies (which is easily done thanks to Turn off the enemy CC powers), or you have to gamble that you can tank the amount of punishment you'll receive for attempting to revive a player under open fire. 

With this suggestion, if a player goes down the surviving players will no longer have to weigh between these options, as the Trinity can just look at the downed teammate and suddenly he's back. The risk of dying through attempted revive is completely removed. 

 

We are playing a game where the main failure-state is death, which is the most common failure-state in shooters. If you remove that, the only way you can fail a mission is to fail an objective.  

Edited September 2, 2014 by TwiceDead

[(PSN)X007GOLD]

Yep less failure mean more loot rare credits resources

[MDRLOz]

Well of life is a blight on trinity and DE does not want to seem to rework it even though it is completely pointless since the Blessing rework. 

Edited September 2, 2014 by MDRLOz

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

It's obvious.

There is normally a risk involved when you attempt to revive a player. Either you have to dispose of / temporarily disable a mass of enemies (which is easily done thanks to Turn off the enemy CC powers), or you have to gamble that you can tank the amount of punishment you'll receive for attempting to revive a player under open fire. 

With this suggestion, if a player goes down the surviving players will no longer have to weigh between these options, as the Trinity can just look at the downed teammate and suddenly he's back. The risk of dying through attempted revive is completely removed. 

 

We are playing a game where the main failure-state is death, which is the most common failure-state in shooters. If you remove that, the only way you can fail a mission is to fail an objective.  

How is that any different than a healer in any other MMO? Trinity doesn't have a mass CC skill to protect herself while trying to revive people.

 

It is no different than Excal blinding everything before a revive.

 

Well of life is a blight on trinity . . .  it is completely pointless since the Blessing rework. 

+1

[(PSN)X007GOLD]

We'll of life is pointless now correct so they have to buff something or just prime her right she at least deserve that?!!!

[TwiceDead]

How is that any different than a healer in any other MMO? Trinity doesn't have a mass CC skill to protect herself while trying to revive people.

 

It is no different than Excal blinding everything before a revive.

Trinity has Link, Energy Vampire and Blessing. Staying alive is not a problem. 

 

Radial Blind is an entirely different problem, and only two frames in the game have access to it. 

[(PSN)X007GOLD]

Trinity had link had blessing and had well of life and had energy vampire none of these ability work correctly anymore can't Even survive 40 min in t4 or T3 sur or def like you used too her power are so underrated and overrated make her a prime like those other that didn't need it?!!

[SgtFlex]

Trinity had link had blessing and had well of life and had energy vampire none of these ability work correctly anymore can't Even survive 40 min in t4 or T3 sur or def like you used too her power are so underrated and overrated make her a prime like those other that didn't need it?!!

please, your post makes no sense. Her abilities work fine and she can easily survive 40m with blessing--in fact better than most frames. Making blessing a revive ability just sounds like a massive isue with balance and will make her carrying too OP and almost necesaty for going into t4's

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Making blessing a revive ability just sounds like a massive isue with balance and will make her carrying too OP and almost necesaty for going into t4's

Your posts also makes no sense. Having a healer is never a requirement, but it always helps.  If you can already get by without a dedicated healer now, then you can even after the proposed change.

 

Oberon should have his first skill given a res function too.

[(PSN)X007GOLD]

You 2 don't make any sense trinity sucks everyone knows it y'all are on here making her seam like the best warframe in game and she's not oh we'll there's always mirage

End of discussion

[TwiceDead]

You 2 don't make any sense trinity sucks everyone knows it y'all are on here making her seam like the best warframe in game and she's not oh we'll there's always mirage

End of discussion

Trinity sucks?? 

I see... 

[Azawarau]

I don't get how giving the medic/healer/white mage character the power to res other players could be considered OP in a Co-op game.  She wouldn't be able to use it on herself. If you really feel that way then please elaborate on it.

Youre really going to take the  "its a co-op game" argument here?

 

If you want to obsolete content just say so

 

How is that any different than a healer in any other MMO? Trinity doesn't have a mass CC skill to protect herself while trying to revive people.

 

It is no different than Excal blinding everything before a revive.

 

+1

Because WF is like other MMOs that have healers of this kind right?

[SgtFlex]

Your posts also makes no sense. Having a healer is never a requirement, but it always helps.  If you can already get by without a dedicated healer now, then you can even after the proposed change.

 

Oberon should have his first skill given a res function too.

The thing is, at the moment, you can get pretty far in things like T4's with no problem, with the change you've proposed, I could literally coordinate my team and tell them to go in the large @$$ tileset with the rafters, stick up there the entire time and tell my friendlies just to stay in line of sight so I can rez them whenever they go down, and then that's guaranteed to make us go as long as we want. 

 

Instant Rez's are just a no-no, like TwiceDead pointed out, being downed is supposed to pose a risk to your team, and if you try and go revive them, you have a chance of getting downed yourself, and then the rest of your team does the same thing: this is how usually most High level missions end, except for running out of oxygen.

 

If your proposed change goes through, then players will use Trinity to spam revive, tell them specifically to remain alive at ALL times so they can go as long as they want, while the rest of the team deals with combat. Trinity is fine as she is, there's practically no risk at all with her invincibility blessing, but there's still a small amount left due to the fact that she can be knocked down and not have any time to recast Blessing again--but the change just makes no risk. Even with a healer frame, there must be SOME risk involved, although to a much lesser extent than non-healer frames

 

 

Perhaps blessing can use a rework, but a lot of the 1 abilities on frames are just as useless--they're all in need of reworks so they're viable to use end-game, especially when it comes to damage abilities since they don't scale like CC abilities do (not technically, but y'know... knockdowns and ragdolls work all the time), but I still firmly believe that instant rez's can be a game-breaker, perhaps extend bleedout drastically, but there must be SOME risk...

Edited September 2, 2014 by SgtFlex