Excal "fix" Not Good Enough

[Nemsi]

I know what you mean. But I think the problem is that the challenge of high level content is artificial - nothing changes except for the numbers. Thus only warframes that bypass the increasing numbers are viable there. Unfortunately that also hurts the game balance itself. Well, sadly thats the way devs decided to go.

 

Under these conditions, I feel like any sort of severe reducing of RB effectiveness may only lead to reducing Excal´s tier viability. Removing a frame from popularity - what will be accomplished by that?

 

I think that the solution will never be in tweaking abilities. Its the way challenge in this game is created that should be modified. In the first place by working on enemy AI (and that could directly touch the way enemies behave when blinded so they would still be dangerous in reasonable way).

[SIDESTRE4M]

And now tell me you want hyper intelligent AI that ambushes you and does serious stuff.

 

Most enemies are moogs. That's the style of the game. It's more like serious sam.

[fatpig84]

If I really wanted to abuse snaring, I'd choose Banshe, put Overextended, Stretch, Fleeting Expertise on her and you won't see anyone standing straight the whole mission without gimping her in the slightest.

 

What he said lol

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

 

 

 

This is not good enough. Radial Blind was fine as it was, it was not in the slightest over powered and its effectiveness was directly related to its effect on enemies within the proximity. Pretty much all enemies take cover when near the player. Radial Blind is absolutely pointless now.

By removing one of the only viable end-game strategies, you are giving a big middle finger to all late-level players who have worked hard. 

This is not good enough DE. You have reduced one of your frames to completely useless, unusable garbage-tier beneath any other frame.

Goodbye my treasured Excalibur Prime, we have had fun, but it is with absolute lament that I jettison you out of the airlock, casting the dead weight that you now are into the lonely abyss of space, never to be used again. 

RIP EXCALIBRO

 

No. Every single radial CC or nuke ability in the game deserves what Radial Blind got.

[Whytee]

No. Every single radial CC or nuke ability in the game deserves what Radial Blind got.

 

I have no idea why they focused on Radial Blind. Almost every other frame in the game has LoS ignoring abilities, and a lot of them have way more useful abilities that go along with it.

 

Unless Excal gets some extraordinarily strong rework/buffs, he is complete garbage now. The LoS change completely kills the only usable thing about the frame, since he needs everything to be blind before they can see him, not after.

 

RIP EXCAL

Edited September 12, 2014 by Whytee

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

 

I have no idea why they focused on Radial Blind. Almost every other frame in the game has LoS ignoring abilities, and a lot of them have way more useful abilities that go along with it.

 

Unless Excal gets some extraordinarily strong rework/buffs, he is complete garbage now. The LoS change completely kills the only usable thing about the frame, since he needs everything to be blind before they can see him, not after.

 

RIP EXCAL

Excal was the first Warframe, and so I think that DE wanted him to be the first target in a series of nerfs to every single frame. But obviously they're not doing that anymore.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Tehnoobshow

[vaugahn]

Excal was the first Warframe, and so I think that DE wanted him to be the first target in a series of nerfs to every single frame. But obviously they're not doing that anymore.

 

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

[Alphafox]

Not sure of why people are defending that nerf.

 

Beside Radial blind and Slash dash, what other skill did you see other players use on Excal? That's right, none because they are just that bad. Who in their right mind would nerf the only good thing he ever had and that without giving him a decent rework.

 

I would like to see that nerf applied to Radial Disarm too, just to see how it will be. You can't remove their weapons if you don't know where they are right?

 

okay, so tell me - what is the point of going to high level content, if you have skills (not only RB), that will disable challenge posed by this high level?

Ask the infinitely scaling system,it might have a answer for you. Those skills are a requirement to not get instagibbed. I don't know about you but I can't dodge hitscan bullets.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Alphafox

[BloodArmoredApostle]

well if they are changing exalibro then they need to change the spawn locations of enemies so that it actually makes sense with this LOS stuff. Because alot of abilities beat LOS and they go after excalibro hard...kinda idk not even needed....nerfing excalibros RD is like nerfing frosts globe and avalanche...almost like really?

[BloodArmoredApostle]

Uh, no. RB was overpowered. There's no possible justification for it to be able to affect enemies two tiles away. As long as they fix the detection and take away the enemy limit it'll be fine.

 

Maybe less overreaction?

Your that guy arent you LoL player possibly...and wish i could down vote ur comment.

[vaugahn]

Your that guy arent you LoL player possibly...and wish i could down vote ur comment.

 

Uh, no. Not a LoL player actually. It doesn't take anything special to see that a skill that can make a whole level stand still forever is overpowered.

[Evanescent]

Not sure of why people are defending that nerf.

 

Beside Radial blind and Slash dash, what other skill did you see other players use on Excal? That's right, none because they are just that bad. Who in their right mind would nerf the only good thing he ever had and that without giving him a decent rework.

 

I would like to see that nerf applied to Radial Disarm too, just to see how it will be. You can't remove their weapons if you don't know where they are right?

 

Ask the infinitely scaling system,it might have a answer for you. Those skills are a requirement to not get instagibbed. I don't know about you but I can't dodge hitscan bullets.

Lol I'd like to see a reply to that.

[Vargras]

Radial Blind was fine as it was, it was not in the slightest over powered

Uh.

[Alphafox]

Uh, no. Not a LoL player actually. It doesn't take anything special to see that a skill that can make a whole level stand still forever is overpowered.

So you agree that many other skills should get that nerf WAY before Radial Blind right?

[Vargras]

So you agree that many other skills should get that nerf WAY before Radial Blind right?

That's not a loaded question at all.

[vaugahn]

So you agree that many other skills should get that nerf WAY before Radial Blind right?

 

Selectively. Radial Blind was one of the biggest offenders due to its natural range. No direct-attack ability should be able to pass through a surface that a full punch through gun couldn't pass through. My biggest problem with Radial Blind, and others like it, is its ability to affect enemies massively far away, even through tile walls.

 

My suggestion for radial blind is 10m unblockable AoE with the rest working on LoS.

[Alphafox]

Selectively. Radial Blind was one of the biggest offenders due to its natural range. No direct-attack ability should be able to pass through a surface that a full punch through gun couldn't pass through. My biggest problem with Radial Blind, and others like it, is its ability to affect enemies massively far away, even through tile walls.

My suggestion for radial blind is 10m unblockable AoE with the rest working on LoS.

I suggest that we had that LoS change to Radial Disarm too. Stomp while we are at it(because enemies should be able to grab thing to not get thrown in the air.) Edited September 12, 2014 by Alphafox

[vaugahn]

I suggest that we had that LoS change to Radial Disarm too. Stomp while we are at it(because enemies should be able to grab thing to not get thrown in the air.)

 

Is that a serious reply, or are you trying to use a slippery slope to refute me?

 

Anyways, Radial Disarm could get LoS but I think it would be better to just decrease the range a little bit. I'm not sure where you got that idea for stomp from, if Rhino can stomp hard enough to freeze time I'm sure he can stomp hard enough to break some dumb Grineer's hold on the floor.

[Ruh-Ruh]

You are right of course, during almost 1000 hours (700 hours on Excal and Excal Prime) of gameplay I never actually dared to reach beyond Terminus. :P

Sarcastic jokes aside, this shows other problem of Warframe - that there is no way to improve survivability of our frames. There is Shields+ HP, then we move to Rage + Qt, and at some point we are forced to specialize warframes in being invincible, or locking enemies in place, so they will never do any harm to us, like Blind-locking, tossing Vortex on infested maps or doing other stuff. At this point game for me looses all fun for me. I am all in favor of creating system that will allow us to increase HP and Shields, but if solution to increasing difficulty is "Stunlock this shizz or make us invincible", then what is the point of playing? What is the difference between enemy one-shooting me and shooting 99999 bullets in order to kill me, If I can make him unable to shoot even once?

and at some point we are forced to specialize warframes in being invincible

I am all in favor of creating system that will allow us to increase HP and Shields, but if solution to increasing difficulty is "Stunlock this shizz or make us invincible", then what is the point of playing?

I am all in favor of creating system that will allow enemy difficulty to scale, but if the solution is to increasing the difficulty of the game is "Give the enemy endlessly scaling armor,health,shields and damage", then what is the point of playing? What is the difference between one-shooting an enemy and whaling on it with 4 people for over 5 min to kill it, where is the skill or player enjoyment in that?

What is the difference between enemy one-shooting me and shooting 99999 bullets in order to kill me, If I can make him unable to shoot even once?

The difference, is that when you have shields that fill the role of survivability early on, while later on it's abilities like radial blind. If you mess up, 1 bullet will kill somebody or something(objective), you are no longer given the chance to mess up.

Consider the fact that the enemies spawn where ever they please and a rapid pace and you will understand how keeping things alive is still a challenge.

All of this is common knowledge when you regularly play vs high level enemies.

I see a lot of people posting that tactics for very high level enemies on low level mobs are overkill and "too powerful". Yet instead of trying their take on a high level enemies, they are content to fight vs low level mobs and demand nerfs.

You are right of course, during almost 1000 hours (700 hours on Excal and Excal Prime) of gameplay I never actually dared to reach beyond Terminus. :P

Playing a lot does not automatically mean you ever pushed to high scores or long survivals, just like living on this planet for a long time doesn't mean that you automatically become smart and do scientific research for a living.

If you actually faced high level content I would rather you tell me your cryotic event score, or your T4 survival time. Hours played is meaningless, just like mastery rank.

[LukeAura]

Actually having an endgame strategy is not the same thing is completely "disabling the challenge".

We should be directly grappling with enemies and challenges in the game.

Because challenge is not higher numbers to the point we need to have a near constant disable on all the enemies, that is artificial difficulty. Numbers can increase, as higher numbers meaner tighter time frames to accomplish skirmishes and carry out tactics. But when they increase to the point the only tactics in counter become 'don't be hit, ever' or 'keep god mode on whenever enemies can shoot you', it's unhealthy. 

Keeping them CC'd forever and have near to invulnerability up technically is a challenge, but it's not all that of an enjoyable one. 

 

Edited September 12, 2014 by LukeAura

[Alphafox]

Is that a serious reply, or are you trying to use a slippery slope to refute me?

 

Anyways, Radial Disarm could get LoS but I think it would be better to just decrease the range a little bit. I'm not sure where you got that idea for stomp from, if Rhino can stomp hard enough to freeze time I'm sure he can stomp hard enough to break some dumb Grineer's hold on the floor.

I was dead serious. Make it happen DE!

[StinkyPygmy]

Sure I overreacted a bit but I will never understand why would anyone say something is OP in a video game. All the time spent playing goes towards improvements i.e. getting stronger... Nerfing stuff just negates everything.

 

I have never seen anyone complain because their video game gun does too much damage, except on this board, unconceivable imo.

 

I will always want MORE power not the other way around but looks like that's just me.

If you do nothing but buff you will end up with exponential powerscaling. Then you have to buff enemies, then you have to buff players and weapons (again) etc. The cycle continues to the point where nothing is ever balanced and all you are doing is shifting numbers around.

 

Buffing AND nerfing should be done where appropriate. Its been confirmed that the RB nerf was released to early and wasn't ready, hence it being so buggy. I believe it is being changed to only affect mobs that are aware/aggroed on excal and not work through walls. Which is exactly how it should work. There is so little substantial cover anyway so you will barely notice the change.

There is no reason you need RB to work though walls.

 

Everyone relax and see how it goes.

We know the buggy RB is just that, buggy. So stop with the flaming and hysteria.

Jumping at shadows helps no one.

Edited September 12, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[FitzSimmons]

 

 

 

This is not good enough. Radial Blind was fine as it was, it was not in the slightest over powered and its effectiveness was directly related to its effect on enemies within the proximity. Pretty much all enemies take cover when near the player. Radial Blind is absolutely pointless now.

By removing one of the only viable end-game strategies, you are giving a big middle finger to all late-level players who have worked hard. 

This is not good enough DE. You have reduced one of your frames to completely useless, unusable garbage-tier beneath any other frame.

Goodbye my treasured Excalibur Prime, we have had fun, but it is with absolute lament that I jettison you out of the airlock, casting the dead weight that you now are into the lonely abyss of space, never to be used again. 

RIP EXCALIBRO

 

this is good enough, not completely useless, even i still can solo t4 survival with excalibur. just stop crying over debuffs. if 1 radial blind isnt enough, use twice. 

[DSpite]

I had been actually expecting to see RB get a diminishing time of "blind" dependent on range. That was actually the "nerf" I had predicted in my head, because I was thinking "flash bang", which basically act like that.

 

It would have meant that a max range build might still blind someone a whole tile away, but that guy is only blind 1 second, then he starts running again. It might be a bright flash, but it's still a Void powered ability, and does not necessarily have to work via visible light, and neither should it, as all the enemies would need to do is get better helmets otherewise.

 

*shrug*

[Alphafox]

this is good enough, not completely useless, even i still can solo t4 survival with excalibur. just stop crying over debuffs. if 1 radial blind isnt enough, use twice.

You are obiviously one of the many people that don't read patch notes. The change has been temporarly reverted.

Next time could you please get your information updated before telling others to "Stop crying".