Remove Ancient Riplines.

[superbot34]

Nope. The infested need ranged threats, and riplines are a good way to give them that without giving them boring shooty units.

 

As was mentioned in another thread, there are some possible improvements that can be made. First, replace the scorpion cable with a Scoliac. Second, let us tap quick melee or roll to un-hook ourselves. Finally, reduce the range and frequency a bit, just to avoid the spam hooks from across the map.

but guess what genius, having scorpion hooks is not Lore Friendly. At all. give me one good reason that it's not just a cheap cop-out move by DE to give the people complaining that the game is "TOO EZ" a quick fix. case in point, Arc Traps. NOT lore friendly, they make no sense how they don't just zap everything, and it was simply a cheap move to make Grineer harder when they didn't need to be harder. 

 

Ancients were already going to be hard enough now that they have buffs, i can deal with that, that makes more sense. but @(*()$ hooks? instant disruption from 25 meters? please. 

[superbot34]

The Ancient barely even use the riplines, it's like once a minute unless you have like 10 or 20 of them at once then, yeah it feels like they are spammed.  it seems they have a internal clock of about 1-3 mins before casting it once, and a C/D of about 4mins before using it again.   That along with how slow they cast it, if you don't pay attention they will get you.  Causes you to prioritize your targets to make sure they don't pass that time window they have.   Now if that isn't called making something actually fearful then just make them all mindless zerg rushers they used to be.

True, but they will still attempt to hook you the first chance they get, every single time on the first try. 

[superbot34]

I agree that the Infested need Ranged threats, but the riplines really don't feel like a good way to achieve that; not in their current state anyways.  Just judging from all the Infested weapons, it should be completely within setting for them to have nasty organic projectile/bio-energy attacks.  Couple that with making them better at closing to melee (Leapers and Chargers with better leaps and harder-to-stop charges, for example; or team-up attacks that launch infested towards you) and it should be completely possible to have other ranged threats.

At the very least, the Riplines ought to be more telegraphed, and have better counter-play so it's not just a chain of debilitating knockdowns if you don't know some specific trick.  That really just makes it all the more frustrating for new players because they're the ones who are going to get messed up by it.

It seems like DE thinks that Infested need buffs when they don't. you get twice the amount at once, they hoard around you and melee the S#&$ out of you, and yet you get LESS XP for killing them. So now, they will be as hard if not harder than say, Grineer, yet offer half the reward for killing them? dosn't that eliminate any fun their is with infested? they were already OP to anyone who dosn't master avoiding being swarmed. Sure, for someone like me i can still easily avoid the hooks most of the time, but unlike most people in this community, i don't think of myself, i think of people who don't have the luxury of escaping 25 meter disruptions. 

[superbot34]

Notes from a guy who has just spent the past 4 hours playing ODD and Dark Sector infested:

 

1) It's not 'several' ancients anymore, there is a relatively low spawn limit.

 

2) simply strafing side by side prevents ripline from hitting you.

*This doesn't work if you don't see them of course, which needs to be improved. DE needs to play a sound effect when a ripline is flying at you.

 

3) whenever you do get riplined, simply click 'shift' repeatedly and you will roll the second you get to the ancient. You'll have a 100% chance (yes, i've done it like 20 times tonight) to dodge the followup attack.

 

So, that wasn't exactly a 'git gud' post, but seriously, try the above before saying you want to remove the one thing that makes fighting infested the least bit challenging.

Often, there more than one Ancient in one area. the one pulling you might not get you, but the others will. 

[Marthrym]

3) whenever you do get riplined, simply click 'shift' repeatedly and you will roll the second you get to the ancient. You'll have a 100% chance (yes, i've done it like 20 times tonight) to dodge the followup attack.

Never works for me. I press that damn key like crazy, never works. I ALWAYS get slapped before the game "allows" my frame to roll. It's maddening that something as stupid as a hook can be so cheap an OP.^^'

 

I don't want it to be removed though. Refined, sure. But removed? Nope.

[Lancars]

Nope. The infested need ranged threats, and riplines are a good way to give them that without giving them boring shooty units.

 

As was mentioned in another thread, there are some possible improvements that can be made. First, replace the scorpion cable with a Scoliac. Second, let us tap quick melee or roll to un-hook ourselves. Finally, reduce the range and frequency a bit, just to avoid the spam hooks from across the map.

The infested are getting ranged units and more swarming units in time. ripline is a bandaid for the infested and a cheap trick because after awhile ancients become common in the swarm and you're pulled back and forth till you die. Even if there is some sort of timer for when they can use it again there is enough coming in to give you road rash.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Lancars

[Lancars]

Ancient riplines feel more punishing to being close to infested then sitting far away on a high ledge with a penta.

[Sitchrea]

Agree with OP... in a humble way.

[notionphil]

Never works for me. I press that damn key like crazy, never works. I ALWAYS get slapped before the game "allows" my frame to roll. It's maddening that something as stupid as a hook can be so cheap an OP.^^'

 

I don't want it to be removed though. Refined, sure. But removed? Nope.

I wonder if it's latency based? Try in solo? I'm not exaggerating, it's worked every single time I tried it. Sometimes I roll 2x to make sure I'm out of aura.

Would love to hear your results in solo.

[vaugahn]

but guess what genius, having scorpion hooks is not Lore Friendly. At all. give me one good reason that it's not just a cheap cop-out move by DE to give the people complaining that the game is "TOO EZ" a quick fix. case in point, Arc Traps. NOT lore friendly, they make no sense how they don't just zap everything, and it was simply a cheap move to make Grineer harder when they didn't need to be harder. 

 

Ancients were already going to be hard enough now that they have buffs, i can deal with that, that makes more sense. but @(*()$ hooks? instant disruption from 25 meters? please. 

 

Lore is not a good excuse for gameplay things. If your problem is with the actual animation, I suggested they change it to something more infested-y. If they wanted to use another placeholder they could make it a Scoliac, or they could make the arms stretch all the way out to you. Also, on the subject of arc traps: how do you know those aren't lore-compliant? The Grineer obviously have advanced technology, and even if they didn't they might have just bought them from the Corpus.

 

If you want to get into things that aren't realistic, there are dozens and dozens of other things that are way further out there. When talking about a gameplay mechanic it should be judged on its gameplay merits and whether it's thematically appropriate, not on whether it's realistic.

 

The infested are getting ranged units and more swarming units in time. ripline is a bandaid for the infested and a cheap trick because after awhile ancients become common in the swarm and you're pulled back and forth till you die. Even if there is some sort of timer for when they can use it again there is enough coming in to give you road rash.

 

They're only getting one ranged unit that I know of, and he's a rare miniboss type guy. A ranged threat for more average hordes is still required, but making them shooty would suck as we already have 3 shooty factions. Balancing around extended infinite content is also not something we should be doing. To quote Steve about that, once you go past a certain point you're "on your own."

 

I don't think ripline is a bandaid. It feels thematically appropriate for ancients, and with improvements it could be an interesting enemy tactic. Someone above mentioned only letting one ancient type ripline, that could work. Personally I'd give it to toxics and take away their aura, but giving it to disruptors could work as well. As I mentioned in my first post, a way to break free from the hook would help prevent getting dragged back and forth. Allowing us to shoot while hooked could help as well. The main fix would just be to reduce the range and frequency though.

[Voidcrash]

I just want them to stop pulling me when I'm behind their backs.

[Marthrym]

I wonder if it's latency based? Try in solo? I'm not exaggerating, it's worked every single time I tried it. Sometimes I roll 2x to make sure I'm out of aura.

Would love to hear your results in solo.

I did try that, thinking the same thing, latency. No difference. At all. EVERY time I get slapped before the game lets me roll. I tried key mashing, I tried to time it. Nothing ever works for me...^^'

[Mesyra]

Infested Logic.

 

Suicide Bombers: Punish Player for not using Melee attacks at close range by making them explode when shot and staggering the player.

 

Blue Grineer Looking Guys: Punish Players for not using Melee on Suicide Bombers because they gather up when you get staggered and keep you stun locked.

 

Disruptors: Punish you for not using Melee by tethering you with a cable that you can't cut off your leg because who wants meta. Punish you for being closer than 10m by stretching their arms out to ungodly lengths to sap your energy or stagger you so you get rushed by every other Blue Grineer Looking Guy in the tile. Punish you for using melee by sapping all of your energy and knocking you over to get rushed by every Blue Grineer Looking Guy in the tile.

 

Toxins: Punish you for not using Melee by tethering you with a cable that you can't cut off your leg because who wants meta. Punish you for being closer than 10m by stretching their arms out to ungodly lengths to stagger you so you get rushed by every other Blue Grineer Looking Guy in the tile. Punish you for using melee by toxin procing you for like 400 damage per tick after wave 50 and bypassing your shields no matter what and knocking you over to get rushed by every Blue Grineer Looking Guy in the tile. Punishes you for using melee by burping in your face with damage equal to this formula D=BL^2 where D = damage, B = bean burritos he had for lunch (which is a direct variation to the Toxins's Level) and L = the Level of the Toxin.

 

Ospreys: Punishes you for not using guns by being too far away to hit and then farting on your face. 

[Sitchrea]

They're only getting one ranged unit that I know of, and he's a rare miniboss type guy. A ranged threat for more average hordes is still required, but making them shooty would suck as we already have 3 shooty factions. Balancing around extended infinite content is also not something we should be doing. To quote Steve about that, once you go past a certain point you're "on your own."

*Ahem* Infested MOAs confirmed to be projectile based...

[CaveCricket48]

Remove riplines from all ancients and make a new ancient type that has the ripline mechanic.

[vaugahn]

*Ahem* Infested MOAs confirmed to be projectile based...

 

Oh, I hadn't heard about that. I can't say I'm particularly excited.

[Twilight053]

Use Handspring, helps you damn lots dealing with the knockdowns.

 

Knowing the numbers of Ancients I hope they're more dodgable than Scorpion's harpoon.

[Variatas]

Lore is not a good excuse for gameplay things. If your problem is with the actual animation, I suggested they change it to something more infested-y. If they wanted to use another placeholder they could make it a Scoliac, or they could make the arms stretch all the way out to you. Also, on the subject of arc traps: how do you know those aren't lore-compliant? The Grineer obviously have advanced technology, and even if they didn't they might have just bought them from the Corpus.

 

If you want to get into things that aren't realistic, there are dozens and dozens of other things that are way further out there. When talking about a gameplay mechanic it should be judged on its gameplay merits and whether it's thematically appropriate, not on whether it's realistic.

If I had to guess regarding Arc Traps, he might be basing the "Lore Unfriendly" judgment on the early mission where it's said explicitly that the Grineer don't have energy weapons, which is what you're trying to stop the development of by breaking their mining machines.  I think I heard that line from Lotus in one of the Mercury missions.  I'm not entirely sure that Arc Traps would really qualify, but logically it should probably be easier to make a "Laser Gun" than an IFF-enabled lightning emitter the size of a frisbee.  

Total tangent, but I'm still of the opinion that the Corpus as a mercantile cult makes NO sense when there are so few trading partners.  Hopefully that gets addressed.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Variatas

[vaugahn]

If I had to guess regarding Arc Traps, he might be basing the "Lore Unfriendly" judgment on the early mission where it's said explicitly that the Grineer don't have energy weapons, which is what you're trying to stop the development of by breaking their mining machines.  I think I heard that line from Lotus in one of the Mercury missions.  I'm not entirely sure that Arc Traps would really qualify, but logically it should probably be easier to make a "Laser Gun" than an IFF-enabled lightning emitter the size of a frisbee.  

Total tangent, but I'm still of the opinion that the Corpus as a mercantile cult makes NO sense when there are so few trading partners.  Hopefully that gets addressed.

 

Well, that thing about the Grineer not having energy weapons no longer applies now that the Nukor is a thing. And like I said, they could just be buying arc traps from the Corpus. All the factions seem to run on schizo tech, they have a weird mix of low tech and super high tech. Based off the faction descriptions it sounds like they're repurposing Orokin technology without actually understanding how it works.

 

And as for that last part, there are an unknown number of other factions in the system. We have "colonists" already, and they seem to be a pretty sizable group. Also, it's possible the Corpus have just modeled themselves around a mercantile guild without actually being one.

[superbot34]

Lore is not a good excuse for gameplay things. If your problem is with the actual animation, I suggested they change it to something more infested-y. If they wanted to use another placeholder they could make it a Scoliac, or they could make the arms stretch all the way out to you. Also, on the subject of arc traps: how do you know those aren't lore-compliant? The Grineer obviously have advanced technology, and even if they didn't they might have just bought them from the Corpus.

 

If you want to get into things that aren't realistic, there are dozens and dozens of other things that are way further out there. When talking about a gameplay mechanic it should be judged on its gameplay merits and whether it's thematically appropriate, not on whether it's realistic.

 

Isn't it? they stick random arc traps in the game and expect us players to just assume they are there for a reason other than just player annoyance due to the screaming of rank 17 hardcore players begging for harder content?

[fatpig84]

They used to have Nervos which are even worse than arc traps.

And saying Grineer has no energy weapons is blatantly false as Nervos existed for a bloody long time.

 

Move on.