Boltor Prime: Killing The Game?

[Damuranashi]

I didn't even had to read the original post, I am just going to say "Yes".

[Arabaxus]

^ the only thing i can think of is to put a quest lock on these "overpowered" weapons

 

completing the quest will verify your skill and ability to play the game as opposed to using an affinity booster over and over to just rank up weapons to 30 for mastery points

 

or.....increase the difficulty of the mastery rank tests

 

Except we have no actual story-line or quests.

 

What a shame. Putting things like access to Prime Weapons or higher ranked mods behind a quest or challenge also sounds like a great idea.

[sekushiiandee]

Except we have no actual story-line or quests.

 

What a shame. Putting things like access to Prime Weapons or higher ranked mods behind a quest or challenge also sounds like a great idea.

^ that may require more planning and development than what the current staff members of warframe can handle

 

mirage being quest locked was a good idea (but players were able to get carried by stronger players....which is a no no in my mind).....the kubrow quest being quest locked was a good idea (it was great because it was quest locked and it was solo only *collar defense mission)

Edited September 17, 2014 by sekushiiandee

[Archistopheles]

If we are to extend back to the root of the problem, I believe that the trading system is the root cause of all these problems.

In my opinion, the root of the problem was the power creep that was formed by making Prime gear ~Huge~ upgrades to standard gear. When Soma was on par with Latron Prime, and superior to Braton Prime, this wasn't an issue - even when you could easily trade for a Latron Prime.

The game was better (opinion) when Prime gear were just RNG trophies.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Archistopheles

[taiiat]

Only if MR isn't attributed to something as arbitrary as ranking up weapons, and is then attributed to something that is related to actual linear progression.

 

I don't like the idea of players being tunneled into ranking weapon to 30 just to toss them with the ultimate goal of just one thing.

i think Mastery Rank is stupid too.

 

but Scott seems to think that somehow you can have a balanced game without balance by just saying "oh well you need to play the game for two more days to get this one so it's okay that it's double as effective".

 

 

or, yno, we could just have a balanced game and people could use whatever Weapons they want, and not have to worry about it not being the top 3% of Weapons that blow their Weapon out of the water so hard that anything but those Weapons are effectively worthless.

 

 

we shouldn't need to justify Weapons with lame excuses, we should just have Balanced Weapons. that doesn't mean unique and interesting can't exist, infact it means we can have more variety. we wouldn't really need to worry about an idea being 'unviable'. we can just have sh*t that's cool and fun to use.

[IAmTheWar]

I say nerf, down to 35-40 damage. Yup. And I love the Boltor and the Boltor P (for it's looks; it's a strong successor unlike a few other primes).

 

It's really way too powerful. When I read the in-game description, it suggested it had damage falloff, which would also have been a great balance and kind of interesting. But no, it does 55/bolt, has a rate of fire on par with the LMGs, unlimited range and accuracy is rarely an issue in this game.

 

Too good for us Tenno. Plz nerf.

 

That's like saying the Soma should be nerfed...which will never happen.

[Arabaxus]

In my opinion, the root of the problem was the power creep that was formed by making Prime gear ~Huge~ upgrades to standard gear. When Soma was on par with Latron Prime, and superior to Braton Prime, this wasn't an issue - even when you could easily trade for a Latron Prime.

The game was better (opinion) when Prime gear were just RNG trophies.

 

You can't really make the same argument about buying maxed mods though, which if anything, trivializes content when used on any weapon, and thus more than any single weapon ever was. 

 

The only reason I'm against Prime Weapons having no benefits or paltry benefits over their original counterparts is because other than for looks, there would be much less incentive to actually acquire them. Prime Warframes are justifiably roughly equal in my opinion because if they were also given large benefits, then that would trivialize the base Warframes, essentially forcing you to play Void. However, there are many weapons that will never get Prime versions which excel in their niche.

[Macdermott]

This is one of those pernicious bullS#&$ arguments that has no basis in reality.

 

What weapons others use in the game does not effect you. All it does is show a disturbing tendency of a certain mindset to meddle in others' affairs. In other words, mind your own business and quit worrying about the Joneses.

If the Joneses decide they want to spray chemicals on their lawn, that leach into my well, then I'm gonna worry about the Joneses.  If they want to play loud music, if they want to mow their lawn with a helicopter blade, if they want to entertain porn stars and have orgies outside, etc. etc. etc. then I have every right and reason to worry about the Joneses.

 

If other players are using a game mechanic or weapon and it's to my disadvantage, then I'm gonna worry about the other players.  

 

The Boltor Prime being available to friggin newbs is a problem because it creates an army of idjits who will make MY gameplay less pleasant.  The reasons stated already in this thread, which you're obviously refusing to read because they don't agree with your opinion, have made this point GLARINGLY obvious.

 

Most games structure their content so as to gradually expose players to powerful equipment.  Warframe does not currently.  It should; it eventually will.  I'd like to help guide the discussion with my input so that the change in game structure doesn't screw me over in the process.

[_Fracture8]

This is one of those pernicious bullS#&$ arguments that has no basis in reality.

 

What weapons others use in the game does not effect you. All it does is show a disturbing tendency of a certain mindset to meddle in others' affairs. In other words, mind your own business and quit worrying about the Joneses.

 

No basis in reality? How about you get off your high horse and contribute to the thread. Give a reason why you think otherwise. I care about the game and enjoy playing with close friends. When they dissapear, well what's the point in me being here? It's not only killing their play value, but my own as well, and not only that, DE misses out on monetary gain since they no longer play anymore. 

 

When you get a friend/Drop your Boltor prime/Use proper logic/Get a soul. Come back and try again.

[skillabstinenz]

Haha, interesting observation.

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

I adore the idea of the Boltor Prime as a weapon that fires bolts.  However, I outright refuse to use it and hold some deep feeling of rivalry towards anyone using one; making it my goal to outdamage them through any means necessary.  I see it as being too powerful; but this is a PVE game, we SHOULD become overpowered and so should the enemies eventually.

[(PSN)PoeticProdigal]

It's a noobish weapon.

 

So pretty much perfect for 90% of the playerbase.

Please explain.

[XenosInfinity]

I tend to default to Boltor Prime any time I'm fighting something other than Infested and don't want a shotgun, but it's more a case of reliability than anything else. It's a solid gun that works fairly equally on every enemy type and has a very good base clip size - its only real disadvantage is travel time, which is irrelevant when the enemies are running straight at you. Braton Prime is very similar in concept but it just doesn't work so well at higher levels without being forced to use forma on it (and I really hate using forma on anything but aura and stance polarities).

 

Yes, the gimmicky weapons like Quanta are fun, but they're just not practical sometimes - and when the fun stuff stops being practical, people will always go back to a reliable gun that kills things dead. When I'm not using Boltor Prime, usually it's because I want a shotgun, which means Strun Wraith or Hek unless I'm expecting Zanuka, in which case Boar Prime. Or possibly Infested, which I'm terrible at shooting, so I bring Dakra or a similarly good bladed weapon. Boltor is one of the simplest and strongest guns in the game, and you don't have to adapt to any weird mechanics to use it. You just have to learn to lead a target a little bit.

 

That said, I agree with the suggestions to actually give it a mastery requirement. Some things are too useful to be available right off the bat to anyone with some spare change on hand.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

That said, I agree with the suggestions to actually give it a mastery requirement. Some things are too useful to be available right off the bat to anyone with some spare change on hand.

Exactly. I don't particularly care what everyone else prefers to use, but being able to acquire one of the strongest weapons in the game at MR0 just from having a high level player carry you through void missions just isn't right. Even at MR2 you can just buy one for yourself. I've also heard rumors that there is a way to bypass the MR2 requirement for trading on top of that.

At the end of the day, you're only ruining the game for yourself. Pentas and Phages affect other people's games more than Boltor Prime.

Edited September 18, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[fatpig84]

That's like saying the Soma should be nerfed...which will never happen.

 

Soma was already nerfed.

Previously it had 35% base crit.

 

Now the funny part is if it kept is is 35% base crit, it would be closer to the Boltor Prime as that mere 5% different increases it's crit rate to 87.5%

 

In any case I was never a fan of Prime trading in the first place. In fact I asked for a token system, so people who earn it will still get it eventually. I tolerated Mod trading because that was pure RnG, but I never wanted Prime trading.

 

Bummer.

But yeah increasing the MR will be nice.

Not just for prime weapons but across the board.

Edited September 18, 2014 by fatpig84

[Sloan441]

There is precedent for a MR adjustment. Namely the Soma. It has been "nerfed" twice. Once, from MR2 (I think) to MR6, then the later crit chance adjustment. I'm inclined to agree that the present and future primes could use some more thought about MR requirements.

 

I've always been opposed to trading since it breaks the gate on prime weapons. It probably has improved the community, but at the cost mentioned by so many. On the other hand, it doesn't really change anything, it just speeds up a process.

 

Oh, and those whining about the BoltorP being so much more powerful than other primaries, well, you're not only wrong, you're dead wrong. The Soma still compares well with the BoltorP if your aim is true. They're used in different fashions, but the terminal results are still very similar.

 

This is why I can't wait for a Soma Prime. The whining, pissing, and moaning will be glorious from the congenitally butthurt. The sweet irony is I still use a Braton Prime for about 75% of my gameplay because it's more than enough for anything on the system map and I will still school the vast majority of my fellow travelers with it. The really big guns are there when needed--and they are needed for some gameplay styles.

[Archistopheles]

You can't really make the same argument about buying maxed mods though, which if anything, trivializes content when used on any weapon, and thus more than any single weapon ever was.

The only reason I'm against Prime Weapons having no benefits or paltry benefits over their original counterparts is because other than for looks, there would be much less incentive to actually acquire them. Prime Warframes are justifiably roughly equal in my opinion because if they were also given large benefits, then that would trivialize the base Warframes, essentially forcing you to play Void. However, there are many weapons that will never get Prime versions which excel in their niche.

To be fair, I was against trading as well, but that's here to stay. Enough good came out of it to off-set the bad.

Gold trim and mastery points will always be in demand, all I'm saying is that completely blowing the Soma, Braton Prime, Gorgon Wraith, etc out of the water in terms of stats is what caused the Boltor Prime Problem.

10% more damage? Sure. 50% or more damage? No no.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Archistopheles

[Xana_Skullsunder]

DE needs to look at mastery requirements in general. It's obvious they're not designing weapons with that in mind.

[Sloan441]

I'll say it again: the BoltorP most definitely does not blow the Soma out of the water. It. Does. Not.

 

They're very comparable. If you think different, you think wrong. Period.

 

The Braton Prime is a wholly different issue and the Gorgon (of whatever ilk) was never meant to be in the same class as the Soma.

 

So what we have here are impressions fostered by misinformation and ignorance. It pretty much renders this thread useless.

[Damagedice]

I'm not making this story up at all whatsoever. <- this isnt sarcasm either.

I've played warframe since U7, and basically my dad would see me playing and ask what it was, as he had his own gaming comp as well. It wasnt until this year he finally decided to actually try this "Warframe" I kept answering with. He started Excalibur, and then built Oberon which he found the parts of own his own during survivals. Then, he buys his first platinum and asks me about prime stuff and what to get. I tell him the types. He was using boltor, so he wanted boltor prime. Hes a big, muscular dude, so he wanted rhino.
Mastery two, he gets rhino prime and boltor prime. This was back in may i believe.


Still using rhino prime and boltor prime.

I've used almost everything, on the other hand

[Damagedice]

I'll say it again: the BoltorP most definitely does not blow the Soma out of the water. It. Does. Not.

 

They're very comparable. If you think different, you think wrong. Period.

 

The Braton Prime is a wholly different issue and the Gorgon (of whatever ilk) was never meant to be in the same class as the Soma.

 

So what we have here are impressions fostered by misinformation and ignorance. It pretty much renders this thread useless.

The boltor prime plows corpses out of the way, making it a much better crowd destroyer, without bodies blocking shots raising the group kill time. Does doing similar damage but one still being better at chain-killing not make a noticable difference? some "period" you got there.

The soma was released disastrously op compared to what was expected, and people whined against nerfs (and it still got nerfs) and it got shot up to having a high mastery rank. If you're going to talk about where they were "meant to be", "class"-wise, Soma was overtuned heavily, and clearly wasn't intended to be where it is. Soma and gorgon is a valid comparison because if people didnt whine against soma being nerfed, they'd probably be much closer as machinegun style weapons, rather than soma being the default.

But yes, much like nova, soma was relased OP and the whine train made the devs reluctant to do anything about nerfing it. Nova even, took a year. I wouldn't imply, therefore, that there is some tier standard that these weapons are intended to be set to, when really, most of the things that are even OP are just overtuned things DE is scared to reap back into place.

But... that thing you've got going on, with the "periods" and "this thread is useless", like you're a ray of genius, gracing the unkempt masses in a sea of idiocy? It's pretty funny.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

Still using rhino prime and boltor prime.

I hate your dad.

 

Just kidding... but not really.

 

People are addicted to power in vidya games. I just don't get it. I'd rather be underpowered and get kills/survive on my own merit than use an auto apocalypse gun and a bullet sponge character. It cheapens the euphoria when you've got lots of kills and no deaths, but can't attribute that to your own skill.

Edited September 18, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

But... that thing you've got going on, with the "periods" and "this thread is useless", like you're a ray of genius, gracing the unkempt masses in a sea of idiocy? It's pretty funny.

Agreed, love when people believe themselves to be the absolute truth. A prophet of savant level game stat knowledge, if you will.

[Gahrzerkire]

Please fix this DE. Just change the MR requirement to 7 or something higher. The strongest weapon in the game should not be made available so early and so cheap.

 

I agree, However from someone with a five forma boltor.... I never use it, I got it the moment it came out on Prime, but seriously its so good, I just go eh, this is boring time to level up weapons that are actually fun. Either it needs an MR boost or a frickity fracky nerf, but personally I never use it. Those people need to realise there is more to the game then the BP and honestly I own people with the BP using my grak in CC.

[Monolake]

Everyone been telling this for a year: OP weapons trivialise the game to the point its boring, and all the other weapons become inferior and irrelevant.  It was similar thing with Soma, but at least it had MR6 requirement. 

Then DEL rolled out absolutely OP Boltor P and made it available from the lowest rank you can trade, combined with primes trading you get this situation described in 1st post. 

I had some clanmates who got the best weapons pretty early (Latron P is mr0 even!), ran some bosses and highlevel missions and became bored with the game. They haven't loged into the game for a ~month since then.  

There is no progress, you just get the absolutely best hugely OP gun and you basically won. GG move to another game.  

Edited September 18, 2014 by Monolake