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[Player Resource] Meta-Warframe Terminology Thread


Vastaren
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Preface:

So... I was through a popular thread a while back, and noticed that while the discussion was otherwise going great, it was hampered by a lack of commonly understood and accepted definitions. The debate was at times sidetracked by explaining and agreeing on certain key terms that maybe weren't used in a mutually acceptable context. With that in mind, and because I haven't really found a 'terminology thread' which attempts to clarify these as objectively as possible, I'd like to put up one with workable definitions that everyone can contribute to in order to make a comprehensive 'dictionary' of sorts that people can reference to try and find common ground in discussions on these forums.

Yes, I do realise that the Wiki already has a Glossary of Terms, however, those are aimed more at players rather than debaters, which is a fine distinction to make regarding these forums (don’t worry, I’m complimenting you :D). I work under the assumption that if you’re smart enough to need to use a reference for the phrases below, which pertain to a meta-game context rather than a game context, then you’re probably smart enough to head to the Wiki Glossary of Terms for anything you’re unsure of otherwise. This terminology thread is meant to be more meta (see definition below) in its purpose than the Glossary of Terms, to cater for a different audience and purpose.

I also acknowledge that it's nigh-impossible for me to be completely objective in this, and that it's not always going to be 100% accurate, acceptable to all, or even comprehensive enough as a be-all-end-all list, but I think it's important to have this as a reference for the sake of future discussions. So do feel free to suggest corrections to my - and others’ - definitions as appropriate. I will update this often to keep definitions relevant if this gains enough traction. This will rely heavily on community input and aims to be a long-term thing for people who want to improve the quality of these forums!

For further insight into the purpose of this thread, see here and here.

 

Definitions:

Italics: Subjective, revision needed.
Underlined: References another term.

A

Artificial Difficulty (noun):

Also: “Bullet Sponge”
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

A form of challenge induced by atypically high numerical scaling of health, armor or damage, where mobs are borderline impossible to kill through conventional combat, requiring the use not of situational application of combat mechanics, but pre-geared frames with damage negation or hard crowd control, or heavily-modded, high-end weapons to tackle.

Usage and Examples:

Operation Gate Crash introduced the mechanic of reducing warframe shields and power strength/range/duration drastically to limit the player’s options. This is an example of artificial difficulty because it relies on numerically scaling attributes rather than presenting situations which encourage adaptive in-game thinking and choice of actions.

Further:

 

Attribute (noun):

Also:
Context: Game
Definition:

The operational (handling) or tangible characteristics of an item. These are innate to the item, and not alterable through modding or status effects.

Usage and Examples:

The Miter has the attribute of firing slow-moving sawblades as opposed to the conventional Grineer hitscan projectiles.

Further:

Not to be confused with “stat” –  attributes are characteristics which are tangible in nature and cannot be altered.

 

B

Balance (item):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

A broad term for comparative, relative equality between two or more features of similar or same categorisation. This means that an argument can be made through numerical, example-based, or logical reasoning for either item to be chosen as superior over the other.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

A parallel, indepth discussion of the definition of balance and its implications by notionphil (link removed).

 

Believability (noun):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

The extent to which a feature is accepted as logical by players without undue question.

Usage and Examples:

Most warframe skills are believable without being realistic because the setting of Warframe allows for mechanics like those to be expected.

Further:

Not to be confused with “realism” – believability is not dependent solely on realism, and is more an indicator of the status quo of lore rather than likeness to real analogies.

 

Broken (adjective):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

A feature popularly considered disproportionally advantageous or disadvantageous to its context of use when interacted with.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

Clear distinctions need to be made when referring to a ‘broken’ feature. Not all buffs or nerfs will break a feature.

 

Buff (noun, verb):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

One or more improving changes to an item such that its purpose becomes more applicable to majority acceptance and usage. Not a direct antithesis in magnitude to a nerf.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

 

Bug (noun):

Also: ‘Exploit’, ‘Glitch’, ‘Feature’
Context: Game
Definition:

A feature made unintentionally possible through an imperfection in the game engine, regardless of whether its exploitation is used positively or negatively by players.

Usage and Examples:

Clipping through dojo walls is a bug. It is an unintended consequence of imperfect level design in the Dojo.

Further:

Not to be confused with “mechanic” – bugs are unintentionally developed features from inception. Coptering is a bug by this definition.
The word ‘exploit’ is used in verb form to mean ‘to take advantage of’. The words ‘exploit’ and ‘glitch’ can be used interchangeably with ‘bug’.

 

Build (noun):

Also: ‘Loadout’
Context: Game
Definition:

The set of items a player takes with them into a mission.

Usage and Examples:

Refers to warframe, primary weapon, secondary weapon, melee weapon, companion, consumables and mods. Does not refer to cosmetics (unless referring to Arcane Helmets or specific weapon skins).

Further:

 

C

Challenge (noun, verb):

Also:
Context: Game
Definition:

The act of exerting effort through gameplay to complete an objective.

Usage and Examples:

Surviving well into T4S is as much a valid experience of challenge as is completing Vor’s Prize.

Further:

Challenge is a subjective concept, and discussions need to be aware that it is dependent on perspective.

 

Criticism (noun):

Also: ‘Feedback’, ‘Player Response’
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

Impressions and reactions of disapproval from an individual/group about a feature, presented in a logical, constructive manner.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

A distinction needs to be made regarding the nature of the feedback when responding – whether it is constructive, given in good intentions and able to be acted on, or destructive, delivered maliciously and unable to be acted on.

 

D

Datamine (verb):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

The act of using third-party applications to obtain encrypted or hidden information included in Warframe client files.

Usage and Examples:

Datamined information from pre-U10.3.0 was used to tabulate Survival rewards on the wiki.

Further:

Datamining is expressly forbidden in the End User License Agreement, reference section 2. H.

 

Development (noun):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

The progress and/or direction of progress in a technical capacity (as in, through methods that only they have direct input in) that Digital Extremes is making with Warframe.

Usage and Examples:

Encompasses gameplay (combat, squad mechanics, etc), gameplay items (weapons, warframes, companions, etc), auxiliary features (chat, trading, foundry, etc), game assets (art, sounds, level design. etc) and related meta-discussions on these aspects.

Further:

 

Difficulty (noun):

Also:
Context: Game
Definition:

The measure of the challenge experienced by a player in gameplay and by extension, the measure of the effort taken to complete an objective.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

Since difficulty is based off the concept of challenge, it is important to remember that this too is subjective.

 

Diversity (noun):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

A measure of the divergence of a certain choice of build, loadout, or item from a or the popularly-acknowledged ‘meta’ (erroneous), ostensibly to achieve the same, or arguably similar results through more effort or investment.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

 

F

Farm (verb):

Also: “Grind”
Context: Game
Definition:

The expenditure of time and/or effort on multiple, repeated tasks in pursuit of a single tangible objective.

Usage and Examples:

Apollodorus (Grineer Survival, Pluto) is a popular node for players wishing to farm for Crimson Dervish – Crimson Dervish is not a guaranteed reward.

Further:

Usually delivered to reference a subject in a subtly less negative context than “grind”, but references the element of RNG.

 

Feature (noun):

Also: “Bug”, “Mechanic”
Context: Game/Meta-game
Definition:

Any action, item, asset or system available for players to interact with.

Usage and Examples:

Encompasses actions (abilities, ingame manoeuvres, etc), items (weapons, resources, etc), assets (tilesets, voices, etc) and systems (matchmaking, modding, etc).
Transmutation is a feature and a mechanic, as it is a system players are able to use.
Coptering is a feature and a bug, as it is an action players are able to perform, while also an unintended consequence of how movement is handled by the game system.

Further:

While I’ve (Vastaren) termed ‘feature’ as an umbrella category for ‘bug’ and ‘mechanic’, please be sure to observe the difference between the three terms for the sake of clarity. Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

G

Grind (noun, verb):

Also: “Farm”
Context: Game
Definition:

The expenditure of time and/or effort on multiple, repeated tasks in pursuit of a single tangible objective.

Usage and Examples:

Sechura (Dark Sector Defense, Pluto) is a popular node for players wishing to grind for credits – the credits are a guaranteed reward.

Further:

Usually delivered to reference a subject in a subtly more negative context than “farm”, but does not necessarily reference the RNG element.
Expenditure of time and/or effort does not preclude one or the other – the definition relies on expenditure of either on multiple and repeated tasks. Whether the task feels unenjoyable or not is irrelevant to the definition!

 

H

Hallway Hero (noun):

Also: “Doorway Hero”, “Lone Wolf”
Context: Game (Defense, Mobile Defense, Survival missions)
Definition:

One who favors camping a hallway or doorway in order to score kills, usually at the expense of the objective or other members of the team.

Usage and Examples:

A player who bottlenecks a large group of mobs in a constricted passageway to camp kills, often leaving the rest of the team to defend the cryopod. May go down or require assistance in the endeavour, to the annoyance of other team members.

Further:

See this for a brief list of reasons why this tactic is generally frowned upon.

 

L

Leak (noun, verb):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

Dissemination of information before the release of the information is officially sanctioned by a DE spokesperson.

Usage and Examples:

The next prime items to be released were leaked through word-of-mouth earlier this month by players who had datamined the information.
Not to be confused with “datamining” – leaking is a potential consequence of datamining.

Further:

Usually will be found as a consequence of datamining, rarely as a result of DE staff disclosure, and information is more often than not prone to inaccuracy.

 

Logic (noun):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

Reasoning and positions formed according to strict rules of validity.

Usage and Examples:

Positions which argue from principles to conclusions by following a sound and valid path of objective reasoning are said to be logical. Positions without objective grounding and presenting merely a subjective perspective cannot be said to be logical.

Further:

Logic is also a valid way to justify ingame features which are not necessarily realistic but are logical within the context of Warframe. This is an important distinction to realise when assessing the believability of a feature.

 

Lore (noun):

Also:
Context: Game
Definition:

The collection of officially-sanctioned history or traditional knowledge of Warframe, imparted as the backstory and setting of the game.

Usage and Examples:

The story of the Orokin is a major source of speculation due to the lack of lore on the subject.

Further:

Lore is strictly knowledge that is extraneous and establishes the environment of the mission or game. Weapon stats aren’t considered lore.
Lore indicates that a piece of information is officially sanctioned. Fan-made fiction is not lore.

 

 

M

Mechanic (noun):

Also: “Feature”
Context: Game
Definition:

A deliberately included feature intended for players to use.

Usage and Examples:

Rolling is a mechanic, as it is an action intentionally developed for players to use.
Transmutation is a mechanic, as it is a system intentionally developed for player use.

Further:

Not to be confused with “bugs” - mechanics are intentionally developed features from inception. Coptering is not a mechanic by this definition.

 

Meta- (prefix):

Also: “Super-”
Context: Meta-meta
Definition:

A prefix used to describe a concept which transcends the conventional limits or boundaries of a game by being based off knowledge outside what is explicitly given to players in theme. This concept is often a result of consequences of actions which occur outside the game itself that influence events within the game.

Usage and Examples:

If we consider Warframe to be the game, these forums would be a form of meta-game.

Further:

Be careful of how you apply this prefix to certain phrases! I (Vastaren) have always thought the reference to ‘meta builds’ to describe a perceived ‘one perfect build’ as an improper use of the term, though this community may have its own definition! Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

Mob (noun):

Also: “Enemy”, “Mobile”
Context: Game
Definition:

A non-player entity which interacts through combat in some way with the player.

Usage and Examples:

Encompasses Grineer, Corpus, Infested and Corrupted faction entities, as well as bosses which are capable of engaging in combat either for or against the player. Excludes the Lotus and other non-interacting NPCs.

Further:

 

N

Nerf (noun, verb):

Also: “Broken”
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

(The act of applying) one or more degrading changes to an item such that its purpose becomes either extremely niche or drastically inferior to similar choices, often to the point of irrelevance to conventional gameplay.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

 

P

P2W (abbreviation, noun):

Also: “Play-to-win”
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

A design or gameplay philosophy of being able to access and/or complete high-level content simply through expenditure of real monetary resources.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

 

P4TW (abbreviation, noun):

Also: “Press 4 To Win”, “Ultspam”
Context: Game
Definition:

The widely acknowledged tactic of using ultimate or ultimate-tier abilities to trivialise or nullify mobs or mob design, leading to a drastic reduction of challenge.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

 

Power (noun):

Also:
Context: Game
Definition:

The combination of an action’s or item’s stats and attributes which are considered towards comparing its ability to tackle balanced content.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

Comparing the power of different actions and items is a purely quantitative endeavour, but whether it is meaningful in the context of the discussion or decision is variable. Be sure to apply this term correctly.

 

R

Realism (noun):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

The likeness of ingame features to real life counterparts.

Usage and Examples:

It is considered realistic for hitscan projectiles to approximate instant travel-time bullets fired from conventional firearms in real life.

Further:

Not to be confused with “logic” – realism strictly refers to real-life analogies and should not be used against criticism or suggestions.

 

Rusher (noun):

Also:
Context: Game (Assassination, Capture, Deception, Extermination, Sabotage missions)
Definiton:

One who explicitly favors speed over teamwork and will often use a relatively fast Warframe to speed through missions and objectives, usually at the expense of slower players or the rest of the team.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

 

S

Scaling (noun):

Also:
Context: Game
Definition:

The numerical multiplication of base stats by a certain factor to limit a feature to a certain level or stage of progression, or to introduce artificial difficulty.

Usage and Examples:

Usually used in reference to items or mobs which display enhanced health, armor or damage as compared to lower-levelled introductory features.
Pluto contains the highest scaling Corpus enemies available on the Solar Map.

Further:

 

Status Quo (noun):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

The current state of a situation in terms of the accepted/acknowledged norm or standard.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

 

Statistic (noun):

Also: “Stat”
Context: Game
Definition:

The numerical characteristics of an item. These are not necessarily unique or innate to the item, and are sometimes alterable through modding or status effects.

Usage and Examples:

Warframe stats would include its health pool, crafting resource requirements, and selling price.

Further:

Not to be confused with “attributes” – stats are characteristics which are numeric in nature and sometimes can be altered.

 

Stealth Change (noun):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

An intentional change to a feature not listed in official update notes. Usually in reference to a buff/nerf with limited or no player knowledge and input.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

Not to be confused with “bugs” or “leaks” – stealth changes are strictly intentional and sanctioned.

 

Super- (prefix):

Also: “Meta” (erroneous)
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

Builds, loadouts and items widely considered to have the highest numerical potential power in a majority of situations.
The “meta” in general is defined as a specific set of choices made with knowledge above what the character is privy to, in order to most easily overcome content through application of those choices.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

This is currently just my own definition I read over the more commonly-used ‘meta’ prefix because it goes against the interpretation I have of the prefix. If I am both technically and popularly in error, this will be removed, but it will be listed in the meantime for reasons of consistency.

 

W

White Knight (noun):

Also:
Context: Meta-game
Definition:

A player who defends Digital Extremes’ decisions without the use of logic to sustain a perspective when responding to legitimate criticism.

Usage and Examples:
Further:

 

 

Contributors:

  • GhostSwordsman
  • Vastaren

 

Changelog:

  • 21 September 2014:
    Added definitions for: “Artificial Difficulty”, “Balance”, “Buff”, “Build”, “Build Diversity”, “Criticism”, “Development”, “Hallway Hero”, “Meta-”, “Mob”, “Nerf”, “P2W”, “P4TW”, “Rusher”, “Status Quo”, “Super-”, “White Knight”.
  • 22 September 2014:
    Added definitions for: “Attribute”, “Broken”, “Bug”, “Datamine”, “Feature”, “Leak”, “Mechanic”, “Statistic”, “Stealth Change”.
    Amended definitions: “Build Diversity” – now “Diversity”, “Hallway Hero” wording, “Nerf” wording, “P2W” wording, “White Knight” wording.
  • 3 October 2014:
    Added definitions for: “Believability”, “Challenge”, “Difficulty”, “Farm”, “Grind”, “Logic”, “Lore”, “Power”, “Realism”, “Scaling”
    Amended definitions: “Criticism” wording, “Leak” wording, “Meta-” wording, “Nerf” wording, “Status Quo” wording, “Stealth Change” wording, “Super-” wording.

 

Edit:
Apparently in the right spot.

I also need suggestions for context... it's lame, putting 'Game' and 'Meta-game' on each definition because I don't know how specific it should be. I don't want to make it too vague either such that it loses meaning, like it is now.

... Was on the front page for all of three seconds. A 'Player Resources' subforum would be helpful for collecting all these guides and stuff which don't really belong where people also post questions to ask.

Edited by Vastaren
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+1 This is good, and can be very useful.

 

Have you considered defining the difference between a bug and a game mechanic? I've seen and commented on a few threads asking questions about "bugs" that were actually deliberate changes to the way something functioned in game. These changes were usually in the change logs for updates.

 

Edit: Also: Stealth nerf/buff: a change that happens after an update that is not mentioned in the change log. Usually refering to a change that applies one or more changes to an item such that its purpose becomes either extremely niche or drastically inferior to similar choices, to the point of irrelevance(to use your definition, opposite case for a stealth buff). Can be intentional or non-intentional.

Edited by GhostSwordsman
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A very handy resource to have. I respect your initiative in starting such a huge project.

 

Do you think the people who post annoying threads would read a sticky before posting?

Maybe not. But having the information out there will definitely promote being informed. Even if someone might not read it at the time, they much stumble across it on another forum visit and decide to check it out and hopefully learn a few things.

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Just in reference to a few of those terms, I'd like to work towards getting rid of the connotations attached to nerf and buff. A nerf is a downward change in effectiveness, a buff is an upward change in effectiveness. They're just two sides of the balance coin, we should try and remove the negative and positive connotations that come with those words. At the very least it would help keep debates slightly less heated.

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Have you considered defining the difference between a bug and a game mechanic?

I will endeavour to clarify that in the OP :)

 

Edit: Also: Stealth nerf/buff: a change that happens after an update that is not mentioned in the change log. Usually refering to a change that applies one or more changes to an item such that its purpose becomes either extremely niche or drastically inferior to similar choices, to the point of irrelevance(to use your definition, opposite case for a stealth buff). Can be intentional or non-intentional.

I will add that in, though I might change around the intentional/unintentional part and make the term 'buff/nerf' a bit more generic if that's okay with you.

 

Just in reference to a few of those terms, I'd like to work towards getting rid of the connotations attached to nerf and buff.

I see what you mean, but couldn't one argue that the connotations are an integral part of the definition? The word 'nerf' originated from players who felt a certain item was useless, irrelevant or entirely too niche, and more neutral phrases already exist to convey the meaning I think you're hinting at. I just want this to be a groundwork for discussion, not necessarily change the way players think about certain words. I think clearing up the usage of the loaded language like these and offering alternatives would be more beneficial than trying to change its meaning.

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22 September 2014:

Added definitions for: “Attribute”, “Broken”, “Bug”, “Datamine”, “Feature”, “Leak”, “Mechanic”, “Statistic”, “Stealth Change”.
Amended definitions: “Build Diversity” – now “Diversity”, “Hallway Hero” wording, “Nerf” wording, “P2W” wording, “White Knight” wording.

 

Thanks for the help so far :)

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Glad to be of help. I really think something like this will help the forums. And I'll continue to contribute with suggestions as I think of more words that might need to be added/defined.

 

Speaking of which, how about defining late/end-game. There's a lot of controversy over what qualifies as "end-game" content, but I'd say the majority considers anything over level 50 to be "end-game". Also any content that takes place after 40 minutes in a Tower 3 or 4 void survival I'd personally consider "end-game".

 

Also, have you considered defining more or possibly all acronyms? I see a handful of forum goers (mostly new I think, but even myself) that don't know the meaning of all the acronyms used in warframe. I'm referring to things such as the acronyms for void difficulty (T1= Tower 1, MD= mobile defense, Ext= exterminate, etc.) and the abbreviations used for prime weapons (i.e. Paris Prime= PP, Boltor Prime= Boltor P., etc.). Though, to be honest, most of the confusion I witness is in the recruiting channel in game, but I don't think it would hurt to have a reference on the forums for such things.

(I realize you've already defined a few acronyms, this is just suggesting adding more so such things are all collected conveniently and neatly in one place)

Edited by GhostSwordsman
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Speaking of which, how about defining late/end-game. There's a lot of controversy over what qualifies as "end-game" content, but I'd say the majority considers anything over level 50 to be "end-game".

I'm the last one qualified to go waving the 'subjective' label around, but I feel that 'end-game' and 'late-game' are both concepts which rely heavily on personal playstyles and what individual players value. To quantify them in terms of 'having x weapons' or 'xx+ minutes in Survival' would be a straight out mistake, I feel. I'm not trying to enforce boundaries and meanings on people, just clarify what it is people really say when they talk.

 

You're right, it does need a definition, but to define it in terms of exact examples would be a bad thing to do imo. However, I do run the risk of making it too general (such that interpretation is allowed to deviate from the concept, which we all know, but can't easily define for everyone else) and nullifying the value in attempting to clarify it in the first place. This is probably where the controversy stems from.

 

Also, have you considered defining more or possibly all acronyms?

Those examples you gave can be looked up in the Glossary on the Wiki which I've linked in the preface - I'd rather let that serve its purpose for general player reference and use this thread to define words which are used more in a metagame context, but if you think we can improve on any of the terms over there, then I believe it's open for all to edit :)

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Cute thread.

Cute post.

 

Interesting. I generally don't see a lot of people misinterpret any of these words thus far [...]

Well, one of the more contentious definitions:

Artificial Difficulty: 1 & 2. This example shows differing definitions of the concept of artificial difficulty.

Yeah, I've cherry-picked that hot topic, but certainly people seem to have differing views on invariant concepts too frequently. How they interpret the consequences of these definitions is out of my hands, so long as they have a mutual understanding of them, which I find is too often not the case, and what this thread aims to address.

Balance: whether it's a result of homogeneity or diversity. This example shows differing interpretations of the concept of balance, and it isn't my aim to argue either way, if that was your next question :)

Edited by Vastaren
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I've never seen mob used to describe enemies in this game.

I've used the term mob to describe groups of enemies specifically. Usually it's when I'm trying to get my group of players to stick together in a tower survival, instead of running off to be hallway hero's or doorway hero's. Because when 4 players stick together the spawn locations for the mobs of enemies are usually in the adjacent tiles, thus allowing more enemies to spawn and allow easier spawning of said enemies.

 

But I'm off topic here so...

I just wanted to share my opinion and experience here, possibly helping to justify the current definition of the term

 

Out of curiosity, how have you seen the term mob used in context to Warframe?

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3 October 2014:

Added definitions for: “Believability”, “Challenge”, “Difficulty”, “Farm”, “Grind”, “Logic”, “Lore”, “Power”, “Realism”, “Scaling”.
Amended definitions: “Criticism” wording, “Leak” wording, “Meta-” wording, “Nerf” wording, “Status Quo” wording, “Stealth Change” wording, “Super-” wording.

 

Hopefully this gets more use, I'm starting to really see the number of topics which are started without any sort of definition (let alone these ones) of contentious terms to guide constructive discourse.

 

That said, I don't know how much I'll be able to work on this in the near future, I'm getting a bit disillusioned with how feedback is handled in Warframe and the lack of transparency, so I'll probably end up only updating the thread if people submit original definitions.

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Hey, just had a thought. Would you consider putting in and defining key words in this terminology thread?

 

My reasoning behind bringing this up is due to this thread here started by somedude1000:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/325044-are-mirror-threads-offenses-with-polls-to-solve-it/

 

I realize not many members use the search function before posting something, which can result in a lot of "mirror" threads as somedude puts it, and part of that is due to a lack of key words being used in topics, I think. So I was thinking, perhaps they could go here. It would be a simple list of some "key words" that are commonly used to describe maps, places, weapons, menus, characters, etc., etc.

 

Eh, I just read your preface again and I don't exactly know if this idea fits within what you're trying to accomplish here, but none the less I'll put this here for you to think on. It's just a suggestion, and perhaps it's something that warrants it's own thread.

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