Should Earning Mastery Ranks Yield Better Rewards?

[Spacetimer]

Honestly, we need a meaningful Mastery Rank system before this. I don't want to waste my time leveling a pile of worthless weapons just to get some reward.

 

 - Leveling gear should have a much lower contribution. Post-forma levels should give as much as the first 30; they represent just as much of a time investment, and contribute more to your power as a player than grinding out all the Mk-1 weapons. If we get 40 per level instead of 100, then we can still get the same mastery rank as now by formaing everything 1-2 times. Still fairly grindy, but encourages investment in gear.

 

 - Introduce something akin to Affinity Challenges that let you earn mastery in missions. I'd like a more sophisticated system like challenges scaling with MR or having tiers like Capture 2.0 missions, but this would be a good start.

 

 - Have endgame missions like void endless missions. For example, void survival would give 1 Mastery Point per key tier every 5 minutes, increasing by 1 point per key tier every 20 minutes (Defense and Interception scaling similarly). This would encourage players getting good enough to get further in endgame missions, which involves learning a lot more strategy and skill than "build bad weapons, sit in Sechura and wait for weapons to hit 30". Rail conflicts could also be a candidate - something like each successful mission granting 3 mastery points per opponent.

 

 

If Mastery looked more like this, then we can start looking at rewards for attaining certain ranks.

 

 

But in case you're wondering what I'd like to see the rewards look like, here you go:

 

 

1-3: Some credits to get started on cheap new weapons, and an affinity booster to get you on the way.

 

MR1: 50 platinum (shift starting plat here)

MR2: 3 Day Credit Booster

MR3: 3 Day Affinity Booster

 

4-6: Starting with Void Keys to get you started looking for Primes, leading into extra resources to speed up the process of building advanced weapons.

 

MR4: Void Key Pack

MR5: 3 day Resource Booster

MR6: 3xDetonite Injector, 3xMutagen Mass, 3xFieldron

 

7-9: Bigger affinity booster to get you underway with the flood of new weapons unlocking. Some more cores and keys to help fill in the prime collection and round off some essential mods.

 

MR7: Disciple's Badge, 7 day Affinity Booster

MR8: 10xRare 5 Core

MR9: 3xVoid Key Pack

 

10-12: Standard upgrade items to help refine gear some more.

 

MR10: Seeker's Syandana, Forma

MR11: Orokin Reactor

MR12: Orokin Catalyst

 

13-15: More endgame stuffs. Forma injection for refining gear. Core injection for finishing off mods. Cosmic Specters for serious business or getting seriously involved in Rails.

 

MR13: Lotus Breastplate, 3xForma

MR14: 20xRare 5 Core

MR15: 3xCosmic Specter

 

16+: Gearwise, you should have everything useful by here. Status symbols?

 

MR16: Lotus Armor (to match breastplate), Dex Cernos

MR17: Dex Tigris

MR18: Dex Soma

 

NB: Dex weapons would have to be a sidegrade to regular versions. My suggestion is dropping the base damage for a reduction in reload speed (or boost to ammo capacity for Soma), so the total of burst and sustained damage remains roughly the same.

 

 

For complaints, see here.

Boosters should be bought, not given out!

We opened that door once Tactical Alerts came out. They're fine as a one-off thing (in all your time, you're only getting 10 days off affinity boosting for free; 3 days for the others).

 

I want Slots!

I thought about this one. Slots are a good plat sink, something you'll keep getting without really noticing once you start selling on the market. MR7-9 is where I'd put them. 

 

Potatoes are too easy to get anyway (Invasions and Alerts)!

You're complaining about free potatoes. By MR10-12, you should have enough weapons that your potato supply is running thin (actually, that probably happened a lot sooner). They similar to slots in terms of sinking platinum; the main difference between this and slots is that it encourages refined builds over more weapons.

 

I don't care about these rewards.

Some people will, some people won't. That'll always be true. I tried to keep them as general as possible, and with some degree of scaling.

 

I want that Dex Soma now! 18 ranks? Bah!

This is why Dexes shouldn't be an upgrade. It should be a usable weapon for higher-rank players to appreciate using, but lower-rank players should be satisfied with the original version. My main concern would be Mastery Rank bonuses being a target rather than a reward, but with MR scaling more off more difficult runs instead of volume of gear, this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

Edited September 30, 2014 by Spacetimer

[marelooke]

Honestly, we need a meaningful Mastery Rank system before this. I don't want to waste my time leveling a pile of worthless weapons just to get some reward.

 

The only way to know whether a weapon is useless or not is to use it. I found quite a few weapons I ended up enjoying even though they seemed lackluster at first after being "forced" to rank them for mastery.

 

Some of your suggestions are the same as from the OP, so I'll just point you to my previous post.

 

As to the Dexes being sidegrades rather than upgrades, the same used to be true for Primes/Wraiths/Vandals, fact is people don't like sidegrades, only OP upgrades that make the original weapon obsolete which is what lead us to Boltor Prime (I mean, is there any reason other than to be a hipster to use Bolter when you own Boltor Prime? Or Orthos when you have Orthos Prime?).

 

Also the starting plat is a leftover from a DE "I'm sorry" from well over a year ago (don't remember what it was about, happened before I started) so moving it around might be difficult for historical reasons (but a good idea for practical ones, as players should have a slightly better idea about what they are doing once they reach MR1)

 

As I said earlier (but since nobody reads the entire thread anyway): I generally don't feel the need to be "rewarded" extra for my MR (which is 16 in case anyone cares). The loadout slots (of which I wish we got 1/rank rather than 1 ever 2 ranks since they're kinda useless if you only have 2 or 3 imho...) and extra trades are already nice rewards and I expect the Focus system to bring additional goodies to the table without the need to "reward" people fo reaching a new rank.

 

I treat my MR as a badge of honor and I treat other player's MR as a token of that player's experience (which isn't the same as his skill), I'll be much more forgiving to a low MR player doing dumb/asocial things (popping life support too early and messing up spawns in survival, hallway heroing in [mobile] defense,...) than to a high MR player because even if the high MR player couldn't hit the broad side of a barn he should still have been around long enough to understand how the game works.

[Loswaith]

... The rest of the MR benefits are likely to come with the Focus system (if and when that arrives) other than that MR is just a barometer for experience (not necessarily skill though) which is fine by me.

Actually the way mastery works and focus works these are different paths and cant really be developed without slowing progression in the other.

 

Mastery increases each time gear is first leveled.

Focus is (as has been mentioned ot date) increased by gathering affinity on gear that is currently sitting at rank 30 (thus gaining nothing from affinity any more).

 

Given this players will need to decide on whether they want to rank up many weapons thus gaining more mastery and little focus or use mostly fully ranked gear to gain more focus and little mastery.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Loswaith

[azmyth1]

For the first few Mastery Ranks, the weapon unlocks are enough to keep you going, and they are very easy to achieve.  I'd say maybe after MR 5, cycle between forma BP, weapon slot, Orokin catalyst BP, Warframe slot, Orokin reactor BP, weapon slot (2nd).  I also think it would be cool to get a cosmetic item or a badge for MR 10,15, and 20 when that becomes possible.

 

Another idea I have toyed with, no mod levels higher than your MR level.  That way each level up would increase your potential power.
 

Edited September 30, 2014 by azmyth1

[Rhekinos]

Until DE gives us alternative methods of earning mastery rank points I'm not going to support MR rewards. Having to farm and master every single weapon/warframe/companion/location in the game should not be a requirement.

[Bibliothekar]

Also the starting plat is a leftover from a DE "I'm sorry" from well over a year ago (don't remember what it was about, happened before I started) so moving it around might be difficult for historical reasons (but a good idea for practical ones, as players should have a slightly better idea about what they are doing once they reach MR1)

Hawken gives you some of their pay-currency when you have played for an hour (in mission, not hanging around in the garage), too. It's not much, but enough to buy one or two of the cheaper cosmetic items. Actually made me spend some money on the game to buy some of the fancier things.

[Spacetimer]

1 - The only way to know whether a weapon is useless or not is to use it. I found quite a few weapons I ended up enjoying even though they seemed lackluster at first after being "forced" to rank them for mastery.

 

2 - Some of your suggestions are the same as from the OP, so I'll just point you to my previous post.

 

3 - As to the Dexes being sidegrades rather than upgrades, the same used to be true for Primes/Wraiths/Vandals, fact is people don't like sidegrades, only OP upgrades that make the original weapon obsolete which is what lead us to Boltor Prime (I mean, is there any reason other than to be a hipster to use Bolter when you own Boltor Prime? Or Orthos when you have Orthos Prime?).

 

4 - Also the starting plat is a leftover from a DE "I'm sorry" from well over a year ago (don't remember what it was about, happened before I started) so moving it around might be difficult for historical reasons (but a good idea for practical ones, as players should have a slightly better idea about what they are doing once they reach MR1)

 

5 - As I said earlier (but since nobody reads the entire thread anyway): I generally don't feel the need to be "rewarded" extra for my MR (which is 16 in case anyone cares). The loadout slots (of which I wish we got 1/rank rather than 1 ever 2 ranks since they're kinda useless if you only have 2 or 3 imho...) and extra trades are already nice rewards and I expect the Focus system to bring additional goodies to the table without the need to "reward" people fo reaching a new rank.

 

6 - I treat my MR as a badge of honor and I treat other player's MR as a token of that player's experience (which isn't the same as his skill), I'll be much more forgiving to a low MR player doing dumb/asocial things (popping life support too early and messing up spawns in survival, hallway heroing in [mobile] defense,...) than to a high MR player because even if the high MR player couldn't hit the broad side of a barn he should still have been around long enough to understand how the game works.

 

1 - Except it's not. I don't have to build Mk-1 weapons to know the regular versions are better. I'm still going to build and level every weapon that looks interesting to me - and I find t somewhat annoying that to progress further I have to level weapons I simply have no interest in using.

 

2 - Rereading OP, I'm not seeing many connections. The MR rewards on my post were meant to be secondary to the main point, which is that MR needs to be overhauled.

 

3 - You're missing the point. If Dex weapons were strict upgrades, you'd be back to grinding mastery because you have to get that Dex Soma. If it's a sidegrade, it's a nice status symbol to recognize your achievement, and still very good without everyone feeling obliged to get them as soon as possible. Sort of like Latron Wraith is a powerful weapon, but you won't be shorthanded if you're stuck with the Latron Prime.

 

4 - Nope. The 50 starting plat came before the apology 50 plat (I remember that pretty clearly; I was over the moon because I'd blown my starting 50 on potatoing Sicarus and Braton, and could finally afford slots).

 

5 - Agreed. If MR rewards become a thing (on top of what we already have), they should be minor enough so that it's not something you feel you have to work towards.

 

6 - Again, the current MR system is bad. It doesn't reflect meaningful in-game time or skill. This comes down to MR having no real purpose other than artificial restrictions on gear, trading etc. My proposed rework of the MR system would at least make it an indicator how good the player is at lasting in difficult missions and the general quality of their gear. A good example I like to use is that my first T4S run that went to 60 minutes was with a particularly talented MR2 Volt player, who did an unbelievable job at keeping the team alive. In the scheme I mentioned before, a 60 minute T4S run would equal roughly two levels in a weapon, so being able to consistently hit that level of skill would be just as rewarding as mastery fodder (while at the same time actually making you better at the game).

[Aeithus]

In my honest opinion (which probably doesn't mean much), I personally don't think completing mastery rank tests should give any sort of reward. You take the test to rank up your mastery rank. That's it. You earn the right from the test to increase your rank. 

 

EDIT: Unless if we're just looking for more ways to get items and such out of the game; then by all means.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Aeithus

[marelooke]

1 - Except it's not. I don't have to build Mk-1 weapons to know the regular versions are better. I'm still going to build and level every weapon that looks interesting to me - and I find t somewhat annoying that to progress further I have to level weapons I simply have no interest in using.

 

2 - Rereading OP, I'm not seeing many connections. The MR rewards on my post were meant to be secondary to the main point, which is that MR needs to be overhauled.

 

3 - You're missing the point. If Dex weapons were strict upgrades, you'd be back to grinding mastery because you have to get that Dex Soma. If it's a sidegrade, it's a nice status symbol to recognize your achievement, and still very good without everyone feeling obliged to get them as soon as possible. Sort of like Latron Wraith is a powerful weapon, but you won't be shorthanded if you're stuck with the Latron Prime.

 

4 - Nope. The 50 starting plat came before the apology 50 plat (I remember that pretty clearly; I was over the moon because I'd blown my starting 50 on potatoing Sicarus and Braton, and could finally afford slots).

 

5 - Agreed. If MR rewards become a thing (on top of what we already have), they should be minor enough so that it's not something you feel you have to work towards.

 

6 - Again, the current MR system is bad. It doesn't reflect meaningful in-game time or skill. This comes down to MR having no real purpose other than artificial restrictions on gear, trading etc. My proposed rework of the MR system would at least make it an indicator how good the player is at lasting in difficult missions and the general quality of their gear. A good example I like to use is that my first T4S run that went to 60 minutes was with a particularly talented MR2 Volt player, who did an unbelievable job at keeping the team alive. In the scheme I mentioned before, a 60 minute T4S run would equal roughly two levels in a weapon, so being able to consistently hit that level of skill would be just as rewarding as mastery fodder (while at the same time actually making you better at the game).

 

1. Ok, there are exceptions (like the MK1 weapons, although the MK1 braton was different enough from the regular one to not be considered a straight upgrade, I always thought it a shame how it wasn't a sidegrade to the normal Braton, but that's another topic entirely), but aside from the MK1 weapons every weapon is supposed to be useful later on, although I find it especially sad that lately Primes have just been replacing their regular counterparts. I really see no reason to use the Latron over the Prime (or the Wraith) which is a real shame, especially with how easily primes are obtainable now (via the market)

 

3. The point is that few people care about sidegrades and if a sidegrade with such a high mastery requirement were released people would scream bloody murder because it's not a straight upgrade from the regular version. Just look at all the whining about Braton Prime (which is more of a sidegrade than a straight upgrade over the Braton)

 

4. I'll take your word for it, I wasn't around for that so I'm going with what I remember I was told.

 

5. agreed, and tbh I think that the extra loadout slots are already a very nice perk, without providing an unreasonable benefit over other players, on top of that they're something that becomes more and more useful the more gear you have and since you tend to accumulate gear over time...

 

6. As I stated, MR is a measure of *experience* not *skill*, some people are just unwilling to learn anything (hence why they're called "noobs") but those are the exceptions rather than the rule (and thankfully those kinds of players generally don't last until high MR in Warframe). I am definitely not the best player, but i can often compensate because I understand pretty well how the game works (though I by no means claim to know everything and I am always up for learning)

 

Also don't forget that it's not because someone is MR2 that he is MR2: I've run long survivals with higher rank players (up until MR9) on my second account (currently MR1) and I managed to outperform them on quite a few occasions, just because of experience. If one of them then went to the forums stating how he ran into this awesome new player, well yeah, do I have news for him...

It also seems that having such a second account is not that uncommon, especially for people (like me) that enjoy teaching newbies the ropes. We regularly want to check out the *actual* new player experience and the best way to do that is on a new account (you could strip frames/weapons and go that way, but it won't tell you much about mod droprates etc, and due to matchmaking you are also more liable to get paired with higher MR players)

[Bibliothekar]

Sort of like Latron Wraith is a powerful weapon, but you won't be shorthanded if you're stuck with the Latron Prime.

Actually, Latron prime has a much higher base damage (85.0 vs 55.1 of Latron Wraith), but Wraith is better suited for crit builds.

[R337Tr1nzda]

Any reward will be better than nothing, although dedicated players for Mastery should recieve different skin/attachment. Nothing that will boost stats, just something different from the norm.

[XAN3MK]

Before we start adding extra rewards/attachments to the Mastery system, we need to discuss it's viability and, hopefuly, its rework.

 

As it is now, the Mastery system is disconnected from skill or experience (assuming that was the intended connection) and it is only suited for completionists. For those of us who just prefer specific or particular setups and like to stick to them, it is sort of a kick in the teeth. This is coming from a MR9 player who has ever owned/played only a handful of frames and weapons and thats due to a very simple reason -- I had no interest in the other offerings.

 

Why should any of us be foreced to waste resources, time and effort to farm, build and rank up weapons and frames we have no interest in to begin with. The current situation is not dreadful as Mastery Rank 8 unlocks all of the gear (or at least it did last time I checked) and maybe you can force yourself to slog to MR10 for the 3rd extractor. But what will happen if all of a sudden we get a system where higher MR provides significant bonuses related to gameplay? A lot of players will have to force themselves to deal with gear they never wanted or had any need to touch.

 

Now, this is not to say we need to scrap the MR system, but I'd appreciate if we could keep earning Mastery by doing activities that we actually enjoy. One simple solution can be weapons providing Mastery after forma. The rates can be tweaked or DRs applied if there is a need for that. All in all, I'd appreciate a more robust system where I can still keep earning Mastery without being forced into dealing with gear I have no interest in, yet I have to use it as Mastery fodder. Even if the alternatives provide slower gains, it still means that reaching the destination will be a fun experience instead of a resentful activity.

 

P.S. The idea that you have to use a weapon to know if it is useless or not couldn't be further from the truth. You don't need to use a weapon to calculate it's mathematical and practical viability.

[Hypernaut1]

i dont think its necessary to give slots for mastery rank. Ive played for well over 30+hrs before needing a slot. After 30+ hrs i think it's only fair that i pay for more slots. Also, you forget they GIVE you 50p that you can buy slots with.

 

Extra slots is a luxury. Right now i have my first sword as a luxury. I dont ever really plan on using it again, unless i just want to mess around. If i dont plan on buying slots, i can EASILy just delete my old weapons. There are enough slots to keep a few favorites and also level up a few throwaways. 

 

You also dont NEED to play with more than one frame. I have had more than enough fun with my starter frame. A free player gets to use 2 frames, that MORE than generous for a free game. If you are soo poor that you cant even contribute $5 to the development of the game, you shouldnt complain about all the value that you do get for free.

 

 

 

 

i do believe that Mastery rank should yield mastery cosmetics though. This should've been a given. Nothing too flashy, maybe just a badge. Maybe at 10 or 15 they can award something nice. like a bade with a small flowing ribbon.

 

Mastery Rank should also yield slightly buffed mod cards. their should be "Mastery" versions of popular mods. Maybe have it drain 1 pt less, or a unique polarity. It doesn't necessarily have to be a stronger version, though i do agree that the vitality and shield mods could use an extra level for high MRs. I also think the idea of awarding BPs is a good idea too. They could just be alternate skins for popular weapons. Not a prime boltor, but a "mastery" boltor with some kind of cosmetic effect.

 

i think DE could make gaining MR more addicting if there were a bit more to look forward too without changing game balance.

[Hypernaut1]

Before we start adding extra rewards/attachments to the Mastery system, we need to discuss it's viability and, hopefuly, its rework.

 

As it is now, the Mastery system is disconnected from skill or experience (assuming that was the intended connection) and it is only suited for completionists. For those of us who just prefer specific or particular setups and like to stick to them, it is sort of a kick in the teeth. This is coming from a MR9 player who has ever owned/played only a handful of frames and weapons and thats due to a very simple reason -- I had no interest in the other offerings.

 

Why should any of us be foreced to waste resources, time and effort to farm, build and rank up weapons and frames we have no interest in to begin with. The current situation is not dreadful as Mastery Rank 8 unlocks all of the gear (or at least it did last time I checked) and maybe you can force yourself to slog to MR10 for the 3rd extractor. But what will happen if all of a sudden we get a system where higher MR provides significant bonuses related to gameplay? A lot of players will have to force themselves to deal with gear they never wanted or had any need to touch.

 

Now, this is not to say we need to scrap the MR system, but I'd appreciate if we could keep earning Mastery by doing activities that we actually enjoy. One simple solution can be weapons providing Mastery after forma. The rates can be tweaked or DRs applied if there is a need for that. All in all, I'd appreciate a more robust system where I can still keep earning Mastery without being forced into dealing with gear I have no interest in, yet I have to use it as Mastery fodder. Even if the alternatives provide slower gains, it still means that reaching the destination will be a fun experience instead of a resentful activity.

 

P.S. The idea that you have to use a weapon to know if it is useless or not couldn't be further from the truth. You don't need to use a weapon to calculate it's mathematical and practical viability.

MR should not provide any gameplay advantages as you get higher.

 

i think leveling weapons/frames is the basic premise of the MR. A player with a high MR should be well versed in ALL of the weapons and frames in the game. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

As long as MR isnt tied to big gameplay advantages, i believe its a fair system. Someone shouldnt be able to grind a boltor over and over and reach max MR.

[Jinryusai]

Currently, there is no incentives to go beyond a certain rank so many still sit at random ranks except those that trade a lot each day...

[(PSN)NavajoShaman]

I know many people will disagree with me on this but I do believe Mastery HuRankI should give some sort of boost. It doesn't necessarily need to be a massive in your face boost but why should anyone go through the trouble of obtaining and rank past 10 when there are no incentives. I mean in order to obtain the master rank 16 I am now I have blown through hundreds of thousands of credits and countless recources which could have been used elsewhere. So in short, would I like to know that my rhino prime has a little more energy or is slightly stronger, faster and has more armor than someone who is using the same frame at master rank 3. And when they ask why I would like to be able to tell them its because of all the time that I have put into the game. As of now when I play with newer clan members and they say"whoa, your MR16, thats awesome what all do you get for that?" An! I have to reply " Nothing, it's actually an incredible waste of time, credits and recources to rise above MR10 unless you want more trades". And yes you get a weapon slot every two ranks....really? By the time you reach MR6 most people have enough slots and already know what weapons are worth keeping and which ones are MR experience throw aways. The only reason I did reach 16 is because it was the only thing left to do.

[(PSN)Pharen]

I think there should be specific high leveled missions and alerts that come from obtaining a higher mastery rank.