Critical Delay With Amprex

[Valletta]

So, as you know the Amprex is pretty ammo inefficient. But, my question is, with a max critical delay, would that help the ammo efficiency? While it only goes up to 48%, I would need a point strike mod, but with the lower fire rate I think that might help with it sucking down the ammo.

[Arabaxus]

If you're fine with lower damage output for better ammunition efficiency then it's just fine.

[The_Rising_Dusk]

-36% firerate takes your DPS down so far that you'll be spending more time actually trying to kill things with critical delay. If you need ammo, run rifle ammo mutation and buy the 250k 10x medium team ammo restore blueprint and make a good supply of those. If you want ammo efficiency, you may as well build a synapse. 

Edited September 25, 2014 by The_Rising_Dusk

[Valletta]

If you're fine with lower damage output for better ammunition efficiency then it's just fine.

Well, combined with a hammer shot, serration, split chamber and vital sense I think that would be plenty of damage. Maybe even throw in a high voltage.

[Lqn8r]

Yes it would definitely help with the ammo consumption of the gun. It would basically cut the consumption in half to about 12 rounds per second. However, critical delay will lower the dps by 36% as well because it is 7.5 x12 instead of 7.5 x 20 damage per second. I really would recommend firing in bursts to save ammo or use an ammo mutation mod instead. The amprex should shred most things really fast so the ammo consumption isn't terrible, especially if you have a carrier.

 

Edit: Messed up on the math so I changed the numbers.

 

Edit 2: This belongs in the players helping players section. Please try to keep posts in the correct location rather than putting in general discussion.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Lqn8r

[SolarDwagon]

You won't take more ammo to kill things since you're doing more damage per unit ammo. You'll be killing it slower overall though.

[Valletta]

Well, I'm going to have to forma this gun to get some more mods on but I think I can compensate the fire rate with damage.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Moved to a more appropriate section.

[The_Rising_Dusk]

Well, I'm going to have to forma this gun to get some more mods on but I think I can compensate the fire rate with damage.

Don't do it. If you want a weapon to clear the star chart and do T1-3 voids, then critical delay is ok, but if you want the amprex to be a strong T4 endgame weapon, don't add critical delay. The DPS loss is MASSIVE. Burst firing and running a carrier sentinel with ammo mutation goes a loooong way.

[taiiat]

feel free to use it and see how you like it. the extra Red Crits may work out well for you.

the Red Crits should kill most anything with a single Tick (assuming you're forcing 100ms Ticks), so if you make those more often, that will compensate for the RoF loss, but will change the Playstyle of the Weapon. it'll do more Damage less often. but hey, it might be a Playstyle you like.

 

i'd probably prefer to use Critical Delay on Amprex than to use a Mutation Mod, since Mutation wastes a lot of Ammo. 

Rifle Scavenger is an option, that can be worth trying to see if it works for you.

 

waah TIV

if we want to Meta, Amprex isn't even the Weapon you should be using.

 

you know what Weapons to use if you want to Meta.

[smithf]

I disagree with on statement in OP: Amprex is NOT ammo efficient. (ammo efficient examples will be Quanta or Phage). During "normal" play, if I did not have ammo mutation, I find myself quickly of out ammo with this weapon.

 

I belong to the school of using ammo mutation instead of critical delay. It could just be personal preference ,but I felt that slowing the weapon down reduces the best way Amprex works: multishot arcing around and multi-procing (status or critical). IOW, Amphrex's DPS should theoretically scale super-linearly with speed (as opposed to linearly. Not the theory calculator here, so no need to argue if you don't agree).

 

In addition, being able to fire the weapon all the time seems to be a greater advantage overall (I usually take carrier when using Amprex), than having more damage in a burst.

 

As for the weapon wasting ammo on lesser mobs, I think exercising trigger control will be fine. Use short taps to get rid of weak mobs, followed by a second tap if something survived. (depends on procs, remaining mobs will be even easier to kill)

 

Just my opinion though.

[ArcusVeles]

You would lose less DPS just putting rifle ammo mutation in that slot.  Critical Delay is an awful mod.

[Nayru]

People who use amprex for damage per second are doing it so very wrong.

Just saying.

[Darzk]

Something everyone forgets - CD extends the firing time of each clip, giving you longer effective uptime over installing Ammo Mutation. You end up with about 10% less time spent reloading (25% with CD, 35% without). CD is around ~15-17% sustained DPS loss but 15-16% damage/ammo increase.

 

Still, I prefer to have higher burst without CD or Ammo Mut. But if I decided I needed one, I'd go AM because the sustainability is higher, imo.

 

Edit: For comparisons sake, Amprex with Ammo Mut will do around 26% less sustained DPS than Synapse, but about the same burst. Amprex with CD will do around 36% less sustained DPS than Synapse, and 25% less burst.

 

I really would say ditch that CD mod. It's only any good on weapons where you don't care about the fire rate.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Darzk

[ThunderZsolt]

if we want to Meta, Amprex isn't even the Weapon you should be using.

 

terribly wrong. very few guns can compete with the amprex at clearint a room foll of mobs (quanta, penta, and ogris maybe?) and in long survival / def you always fight against large groups, so you are using the arcing mechanics  to max advantage.

 

if it hits 2 enemies, it already outperforms the boltor prime, and can hit 6+

 

 

to the OP: i would just use ammo restores, they are really cheap if you have the x10 blueprint. i tend to run out of ammo at about 30 mins in a T4s, and about 25 waves in a T4def, so i think it is not that bad - i have to note, that i play most of the time the CC or nekros, not the damage frame, but with mirage's damage buff you don't need that much ammo either

 

edit: the only gun i use with critical delay is the latron wraith, because i need time to aim

Edited September 25, 2014 by Krumplifej

[The_Rising_Dusk]

if we want to Meta, Amprex isn't even the Weapon you should be using.

 

you know what Weapons to use if you want to Meta.

 

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The amprex is a perfectly fine AoE DPS / CC rifle for T4 endgame content. Sure, it may not deal the single target DPS of a boltor prime or soma, but the arcing mechanic increases its DPS and AoE proc potential to far beyond that of the aforementioned weapons. Eventually the ammo inefficiency will hurt you badly if you go far enough into T4 endless missions, but it's not even like the boltor prime or soma are that great one and a half hours into a T4 survival, even with 4 corrosive projections. At that point everyone may as well just pull out a dread for the insane red crits.

 

A 5-6 forma amprex is definitely one of the stronger weapons in warframe. It's also versatile in the sense that if damage isn't your main concern, the amprex makes arguably the best elemental proc dispenser in the game due to the electrical damage base and healthy status chance + arcing. 

 

People who use amprex for damage per second are doing it so very wrong.

Just saying.

 

Modding the amprex for status is fine and all but at the end of the day, I'd still like to not gently tickle my enemies to death by putting critical delay on it. 

[taiiat]

-snip-

 

-snip-

 

any Weapon can be equipped to take out swathes of Enemies at once. 

 

and if AoE Damage is the entire justification to be come up with, Ignis would be the best choice for that. it hits the most Enemies at a steady rate, so it's clearly better then, right.

 

 

anyways, since taking out groups of Enemies is adequately achievable by all kinds of Weapons, that gap of AoE Damage is really not much compared to the Weapons that are considered part of Meta.

especially when Level Design is taken into equation. Tiles are most certainly not big boxes. there's always chokepoints of varying sizes that allow Weapons to take out swathes with ease.

 

 

i never even said Amprex was bad, i only pointed out that there's Weapons that achieve this goal, but better - and that results in defending the Weapon as if it was insulted. heh.

[SolarDwagon]

any Weapon can be equipped to take out swathes of Enemies at once. 

 

and if AoE Damage is the entire justification to be come up with, Ignis would be the best choice for that. it hits the most Enemies at a steady rate, so it's clearly better then, right.

 

 

anyways, since taking out groups of Enemies is adequately achievable by all kinds of Weapons, that gap of AoE Damage is really not much compared to the Weapons that are considered part of Meta.

especially when Level Design is taken into equation. Tiles are most certainly not big boxes. there's always chokepoints of varying sizes that allow Weapons to take out swathes with ease.

 

 

i never even said Amprex was bad, i only pointed out that there's Weapons that achieve this goal, but better - and that results in defending the Weapon as if it was insulted. heh.

Perhaps if you actually stated what weapons ARE the meta-given that there has already been an argument as to why the Amprex is better than the seemingly obvious choices-your point would seem less arrogant?

[taiiat]

-snip-

maybe i don't enjoy flamewars enough to list them and start some long winded Meta discussion?

 

because that's exactly how it is. talking about Meta is yucky and i avoid it if i can.

[SolarDwagon]

maybe i don't enjoy flamewars enough to list them and start some long winded Meta discussion?

 

because that's exactly how it is. talking about Meta is yucky and i avoid it if i can.

 

Except you were the only person to bring it up. So perhaps now you should explain why you brought it up, since obviously the need to was so great.

[Nayru]

Modding the amprex for status is fine and all but at the end of the day, I'd still like to not gently tickle my enemies to death by putting critical delay on it. 

I would consider rifle mutation to be inherently superior to critical delay, unless you're, as aforementioned, doing it wrong and running damage.

Critical delay is only used if you don't have the majority of dual status mods, since there's literally nothing else better to put on.

[Vanhline]

So, as you know the Amprex is pretty ammo inefficient. But, my question is, with a max critical delay, would that help the ammo efficiency? While it only goes up to 48%, I would need a point strike mod, but with the lower fire rate I think that might help with it sucking down the ammo.

 

the short answer is no. i can see why you might wonder that but ill explain why.

 

the thing is, critical delay is a DPS/damage loss in ANY build you would put it on, so you may be firing less ammo per second but you in effect need more ammo then you did before because the gun is now weaker, just resulting in it taking you around the same amount of ammo as before but now taking longer to kill things.

[Vanhline]

the optimal "DPS" build for the amrpex is:

 

element 1, of your choosing.

element 2, of your choosing.

hammershot.

vital sense.

point strike.

serrations.

heavy caliber.

split chamber.

 

this will get you over 15k DPS.

 

putting on critical delay may allow you to use slightly less ammo, 12.8 down from 20, but that 36% increase in ammo eficiancy will cost you up to half your DPS. taking off any of the mods listed above to put on crit delay will drop your DPS by as much as half.

 

this means you actually use 28% MORE ammo to kill things AND take twice as long to do it.

 

 

 

again short answer is dont do it. XD

Edited September 25, 2014 by Vanhline

[taiiat]

Except you were the only person to bring it up.

he brought it up by getting all bent out of shape that he's "doing it wrong" and "not useful in endgame". he brought up Meta.

 

which is not pertinent to any discussion other than a discussion about Meta. it has no place in any other discussion.

[ThunderZsolt]

any Weapon can be equipped to take out swathes of Enemies at once. 

 

and if AoE Damage is the entire justification to be come up with, Ignis would be the best choice for that. it hits the most Enemies at a steady rate, so it's clearly better then, right.

i never even said Amprex was bad, i only pointed out that there's Weapons that achieve this goal, but better - and that results in defending the Weapon as if it was insulted. heh.

 

ignis, lol. it can't surpass 5k DPS, AoE, or not. that gun sucks without some serious help (accelerant for example) in endgame.

the amprex build in the other quoted post has 23k burst DPS. the boltor prime with a speed trigger build can have 34k at max, but then it becomes more ammo-inefficient then the amprex, and if the amprex hits 2 targets, it means 46k burst DPS, and that is only 2 targets.

 

META = most efficient tactics available. the amprex is the most efficient at clearing groups of enemies, so it is part of the meta. period. Boltor prime is better at handling vay hek, or vor, or any single target, but falls off hard compared to the amprex when facing groups.

 

 

the optimal "DPS" build for the amrpex is:

 

element 1, of your choosing.

element 2, of your choosing.

hammershot.

vital sense.

point strike.

serrations.

heavy caliber.

split chamber.

 

this will get you over 15k DPS.

 

putting on critical delay may allow you to use slightly less ammo, 12.8 down from 20, but that 36% increase in ammo eficiancy will cost you up to half your DPS. taking off any of the mods listed above to put on crit delay will drop your DPS by as much as half.

 

this means you actually use 28% MORE ammo to kill things AND take twice as long to do it.

 

again short answer is dont do it. XD

 

 

agreed with this, just quoted for the build.

[taiiat]

-snip-

you seem to have missed the cynicism when i talked about Ignis. short of an Explosive, Ignis certainly has the most AoE. but we all know where it stands in perceivable effectiveness.

 

and still, the other Meta Weapons, which people know (i have no interest in listing them and causing some 'but N' flamewar), are also capable of hitting groups of Enemies at the same time. through either Piercing abilities of side effects that have the same effect as the arcing of Amprex.