Mods/weapons That Are Pointlessly/inexplicably Weak

[BerserkerPrime]

QT+R combo is not what it used to be, its awful now, it should be a little bit better

[Skaleek]

Akbronco prime, Akstilleto.

 

Oh yeah. Warm coat.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Skaleek

[Baruti]

All six of those are great. Many weapons have one primary damage type, and so one of these, in tandem with Serration/Hornet Strike, work wonders. If the weapon isnt an element weapon, I have one of those six on them, maybe more. I have two-three of them on my Brakk at any given time, because of how high the base damage is for each stat.

 

I'm sorry to break it to you but you're completely wrong man. The values they come in and the fact that they only increase off of the actual stat rather than it's entire base stats makes them wholly inferior to other choices. A weapon would have to be 100% impact/puncture/slash for them to even begin to be comparable to an elemental mod. and even in that case they're still worse because  elements are flat out better as far as procs and damage values go and to put the final nail in the coffin elemental damage is calculated off your ENTIRE base physical, so you're just getting more right out of the gate on almost every single weapon.

 

I really have to question someone who's been playing long enough to have a brakk and completely fails to understand why these mods are bad.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

I'm sorry to break it to you but you're completely wrong man. The values they come in and the fact that they only increase off of the actual stat rather than it's entire base stats makes them wholly inferior to other choices. A weapon would have to be 100% impact/puncture/slash for them to even begin to be comparable to an elemental mod. and even in that case they're still worse because  elements are flat out better as far as procs and damage values go and to put the final nail in the coffin elemental damage is calculated off your ENTIRE base physical, so you're just getting more right out of the gate on almost every single weapon.

 

I really have to question someone who's been playing long enough to have a brakk and completely fails to understand why these mods are bad.

 

Wow. Ad hom attacks about a video game. You may need to take summer school for your maturity class. I'll repeat my break down earlier:

 

I think the problem we may be having is some folks don't read up on damage 2.0. When you see the massive boost you get on top of those mods, then you will notice why they are great.

 

If I take a Pyrana against Infestation, I get a bonus of 25% against a lot of enemies. With that in mind, I could go in without Razor shot and get 967-1161 slash damage, or go in with Razor shot and get 1505.25-1806 slash damage.

 

Is a damage difference of 548-645 not siginificant to anybody?

[PeripheralVisionary]

Wow. Ad hom attacks about a video game. You may need to take summer school for your maturity class. I'll repeat my break down earlier:

 

I think the problem we may be having is some folks don't read up on damage 2.0. When you see the massive boost you get on top of those mods, then you will notice why they are great.

 

If I take a Pyrana against Infestation, I get a bonus of 25% against a lot of enemies. With that in mind, I could go in without Razor shot and get 967-1161 slash damage, or go in with Razor shot and get 1505.25-1806 slash damage.

 

Is a damage difference of 548-645 not siginificant to anybody?

Depends. Saw Tooth clips might be worth it if the weapon has an already high base, but on anything else you're just wasting space. People just want higher percentages because they're super greedy about damage.

[Monolake]

Sigh.  Valid topic, but wrong list of mods.

 

All the 30% physical dmg mods are just credits/fusion fodder

Half of the channeling mods are bad. 

Half of the corrupted mods are vastly inferior to normal counterparts or simply bad.

 

I could go on.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Monolake

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

Depends. Saw Tooth clips might be worth it if the weapon has an already high base, but on anything else you're just wasting space. People just want higher percentages because they're super greedy about damage.

 

Right. I never said otherwise. I'm not saying to throw random irrelevant mods on a stat that doesnt have high base. I usually mod for it's highest base damage type. High slash gets a slash mod. High puncture gets a high puncture mod. So on, and so forth.

Edited September 29, 2014 by (PS4)Fenrushak

[Egg_Chen]

I raised the Aklato issue immediately after the single got its buff, no joy I'm afraid, maybe one day....

 

Just like in this thread someone said at the time "well the lower damage is because you have two of them..."

Please, if you are of that opinion, show me any other single & dual with the same decrease in damage for the single.

The convention mostly followed is increased firerate and clipsize with a loss in accuracy, not a decrease in damage.

Know that your opinion is completely and utterly wrong, but you are entitled to it!

 

As to the mods, yeah, so many make no sense, one day, maybe... or maybe we will just get new ones to farm, level and spend plat on that completely outclass them!

 

Edit : It gets worse! I'm sorry -S-O-Yetili, they did not "nerf the damage to balance it".

The Aklato and the Lato had exactly the same damage, then they buffed the Lato when adding the new Mk-1 starter weapons and the new tutorial, and didn't buff the Aklato to match.

 

Are you seriously saying that DE did it to balance the Aklato?

Was it OP? Really?

 

Just gonna repeat something :

 

They previously had exactly the same damage.

 

It's an oversight, not an act of balancing.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Egg_Chen

[w00tm0ng3r]

when i saw the title i thought it would be discussing mods like maglev.......things that are legitimately pointless

Eh we're mostly discussing things that are eminently fixable. The only way to make maglev even considerable would be to combine it with half a dozen other mobility mods into a super end all be all rushing mod.

[PeripheralVisionary]

Why the AKlato? I thought it was legitimate mastery fodder. I wouldn't mind a buff personally, but ehhh. Maybe an Aklato Wraith.

[Latronico]

The fact is that extra damage mods should be of ONLY two kinds*:

- with a 11 points cost and a 120% extra damage bonus;

- with a 7 points cost and a 60% extra damage bonus PLUS a status change bonus/channeling bonus or something else;

 

There is no sense in mods like Deep Freese or North Wind (9 points for a mod that is less usefull then the event one, that has the same stats and costs less), or Piercieng Hit (30% to Puncture damage? Really? For 9 points?) and so on.

 

There should be only THESE* two kind of mods because, in this way, a player could be able to choose between a good extra bonus damage (120%) for a really high cost (11 points per mod), or a lower extra damage (60%) plus a secondary effect (status change, channeling efficiency and so on) for a lower cost (7 points, like event mods are). 

Pure damage OR less damage plus effects. 

The choice should be between these two things, and not between same damage with higher cost and same damage PLUS secondary effect for a lower cost (I wrote about North Wind, but it's true also for Shocking Touch and Voltaic Strike). 

 

This rule* should value for EVERY extra damage mod, from elemental mods to physical damage mods. 

So, for example, with the introduction of new 120% Slash mods (and probably, in the future, 120% Puncture and Impact mods), all the old physical mods like Piercieng Hit, Sundering Strikle, Heavy Trauma, No Return and so on should get a buff to 60% or more WITH a secondary effect (that could be status change like event mods, or critical change, or attack speed/fire rate and  so on). 

[ROSING]

Valid point for Akbronco Prime, also will make a case for the energy efficiency of most channeling mods. Also adding in Deep Freeze.

Just to clarify, for physical damage mods I think that they should be brought up to the melee damage mods (all +90%).

[S.T.M.P.D]

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[Lost_Cartographer]

Weapons that really need some work:

Gorgon (rifle.)

Kraken (secondary, especially since the Marelok.)

Machete (just junk, cute if you're against things that don't require too much killing power anyway, but it IS kind of off the table so to speak, so not a priority.)

Maybe Cestra, because it's just really painful to use.

 

Honorable mentions go to the Boltor and the Tetra: the lack of crit rate, crit damage, coupled with low velocity rounds should justify >30 base damage, especially the Tetra, which doesn't even gain the benefit of knocking dudes into other dudes for some funnel damage potential.

 

AKLato.  Previously, the Lato was worse than the AKLato.  Now the AKLato is lacking behind the Lato.  The Lato is in a good spot, as is by extension the MK-I.   They're both legitimately viable weapons now.  Merely bringing the AKLato's damage to the exact same levels as the Lato would put it exactly where it needs to be for an early weapon.

 

Mods.  Numero uno culprit: status chance mods (Sure Shot, Rifle Aptitude, etc.)  Just plain weak.  There's no way these will ever make it onto any weapon build, not even just to fill that last mod slot or few remaining available points.

 

Then look into physical damage mods.  30% to primaries is beyond weak.  60% to secondaries is a little better, but still bad.  90% on a sword is pretty good, but Molten Impact will still provide a better point-to-damage ratio if "health damage" is what I'm going for.  The 120% are actually a good large leap in the right direction, even if in most cases they still aren't better than elemental mods.  

 

Specifically, 75% of a weapon's base damage has to be of the influenced damage type for the 120% mod to break even with the 90% elemental mods in total weapon damage - there is a fair number of weapons that fit that criteria, but a lot of them already veer into the realm of one-hit wonders, meaning low RoF, mostly about the one shot potential... unless its puncture based, which have a monopoly on severely weighted automatics.  There is an additional problem in that they are present and obvious power creep, not to mention exclusive and no longer obtainable, at least for now.

 

New weapons need to place better emphasis on heavily weighing in towards specific damage types to really make the 120% more worthwhile (alternatively, the focus system could allow us to maneuver/swap around stats on a gun to serve this very purpose.)  Specifically, we could use decent slash oriented automatic rifles and impact oriented automatic rifles, to round out the selection.  

 

The 30% mods need to be tweaked to provide an additional benefit and normalize them between weapon types (primary, secondary, melee,)  +80% (slash/impact/puncture) is a good spot as it matches with the 60% elemental/status mods at 75% oriented physical damage.  So turning mods like Sawtooth Clip, Piercing Hit, Rupture, Concussion Rounds, Razor Shot, and No Return into +80% I/P/S and +60% status or whatever other bonus, maybe even just +80% status to make them really worth considering over elemental/status hybrids whenever possible, would make them competitive, and people would surely love seeing the buff to mods they already probably never use.  Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm the only dude that willingly slams them into a few of his guns, but that's just for the chunky salsa excessive slash damage makes out of bad guys.

 

Finally, elemental mods across primaries, secondaries, and melee.  Let's have some consistency here.  +90% for pure elements, all of them.  +60% for hybrid element/status mods.  How mods like Wildfire and Ice Storm are balanced I leave up to DE.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Littleman88

[Doomclaaw]

Weapons: 

Tetra

 

Mods:

Melee Prowess

 

Those are the top two pet peeves of mine..... but there are plenty more. 

[ArcusVeles]

Right. I never said otherwise. I'm not saying to throw random irrelevant mods on a stat that doesnt have high base. I usually mod for it's highest base damage type. High slash gets a slash mod. High puncture gets a high puncture mod. So on, and so forth.

The problem is, there's no reason to spec for bonus Slash, Puncture or Impact when they have the same amount of strengths and weaknesses as any element, without having the benefit of scaling off of your full base damage versus only one of the three aspects of it.

 

Physical damage mods are just plain at a disadvantage.  Now, if I could get corrupted mods that removed physical element(s) from my weapon while adding bonus base damage to the primary physical element, I would kill for that.  That would at least have the strategic advantage of lowering the total potential pool of procs of a weapon so I could spec for a specific proc type, like a weapon with only Piercing, Corrosive and Cold to debuff enemies or Slash, Viral and Fire for relatively effective Infested destruction.

[Spacetimer]

Looking at the Channeling mods:

 

The only decent damage one is Killing Blow. While channeling it increases you channeling damage multiplier to x2.1; now say we add another element instead. If we already have both 90% elements, the extra 60% element will increase our effective damage multiplier to x1.9; so Killing Blow has actually only added 20% more damage while channeling. (At the cost of dropping damage by 20% for non-channeling, which seems fair for a channeling build).

 

Following a similar train of thought, Corrupted Charge is weak (+10% while channeling, -30% while not channeling). It's still marginally useful if you're not running Killing Blow, maybe because you miraculously ran out of mod points. With both installed, you still have +8% damage while channeling (compared to two 60% elements), but -42% while not channeling!

 

Life Strike is good. Healing is rare enough as it is, the utility can be well worth the drop in damage and energy economy.

 

Quickening is...meh. I can see its uses if you're really trying to force attack speed, but other than that it could at least stand to be another Fury. At 30% it might be a viable alternative to Berserker for slow, low-crit weapons.

 

Parry is actually pretty sweet. Reliably opening up finishers for the cost of some energy is useful, even if it takes some setting up. Wiki states that parry finishers do a monstrous x16 damage - I'm going to have to double check that myself but that would make this an amazing mod. Oh my. I might run Parry on a few more weapons.

 

Warrior's Grip...I don't even know. I know of the live-forever parry builds, but personally never got it to work. I can see the appeal of using Energy in place of stamina, and the cost seems about right for it (still lets you reduce it down to 1 Focus Energy/Reflex Coil). I feel like 20% isn't quite enough to make the stamina sustainable, but it might still have a place somewhere. Needs further investigation.

 

Second Wind would be good if stamina actually mattered.

 

True Punishment  - see Killing Blow. Even for the highest critical chances, it'll only add 10% crit chance. In a way this mod reminds me of Critical Delay - it's never good for your damage, so you'd only use this if you want crits to happen slightly more reliably (at the cost of 9 energy), or want to give Berserker a slight bump. Given you have to be channeling, I wouldn't be against something like 140% at maximum rank (perhaps giving it a few more ranks to compensate).

 

Enduring Strike - This mod's pretty amazing...compared to regular Status mods. Hopefully when those mods get buffed, Enduring Strike will be scaled accordingly.

 

Focus Energy is strictly better than the pure Electric mod, which is so wrong. It's good that it's a sidegrade to Voltaic Strike though.

 

Reflex Coil is strictly a utility mod, but not a bad one. Especially useful with Life Strike, leaving you more wriggling room when it comes to energy economy.

 

 

Of these, I'd say only True Punishment and Corrupted Charge need major revision. Enduring Strike and Second Wind need adjustment, but their issue goes beyond the mods themselves. Quickening and Warrior's Grip could use tweaks.

 

 

I'll go through more mods soon, but in the interest of preventing Great Walls of Text, breaking it off here.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Spacetimer

[Cleesus]

Moving to feedback

[Spacetimer]

Looking at some more mods - this time, non-corrupted Weapon mods.

 

Pure Cold/Electric Mods - A remnant of the rather powerful damage 1.0 "procs", there's no reason for these to have less damage anymore. Should all be buffed to 90%.

 - As an aside, the cold mods would probably still be okay costing 9 instead of 11. The reason is that they do sit in a different polarity, so the reduction in cost is counteracted by a loss of flexibility when polarizing.

 

Pure Status Mods - Using Elemental/Status mods as a baseline, 90% would probably be fair. Buffing these becomes more critical as more of these event mods are released, steadily pushing the utility mods out of their niche.

 

Max Ammo Mods - 30% is fairly sad considering they cost as much as an Ammo Mutation (props to Trick Mag for being useful). Ammo Mutation roughly doubles the available ammo for rifles, significantly more for shotguns and sniper rifles (at the cost of eating into your other weapon's ammo drops). My suggestion is +60% for Ammo Drum, +90% for Shell Compression).

 

Clip Size Mods - Niche mods to begin with, competing with reload speed mods. Bumping up Slip Magazine and Magazine Warp to 48%/60% at max rank would be welcomed - Slip Magazine is inferior to Ice Storm as is. The reason for these numbers is that it has roughly the same effect as an equivalent increase in reload speed.

 

Tactical Pump, Fast Hands - See above. Increase both mods to 60%.

 

Base Damage Mods - It's a little sad that they're getting obsoleted by the new event mods rather than buffed. Even for the +120% slash mods, you'll find that the only place these are preferable is if you have a 80%+ slash damage weapon, and want to balance out your damage against Infested rather than specialize against one enemy type. If we insist on keeping these, they either have to be 90% (while costing 7 ranks as to remain a viable alternative to the event versions), or scale off the total base damage.

 

Non-rifle crit mods - Generally, outside of Rifles, the point at which critical builds break even is 15%/x2. It would be nice to have Shotguns and Melee weapons crit heavier, and pistols crit more reliably. Increase Ravage and Organ Shatter to +120%, and increase Pistol Gambit to +180%.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Spacetimer