Breaking Things For The Sake Of Breaking Them

[Llyssa]

I understand that people want ability mods out of the drop tables, but it's not cool to just remove them entirely with no back-up option.

 

Worse, you gave some bs answer about "well, craft another one". That's extremely difficult and costly for most frames, for starters(especially zephyr and hydroid), and for others, it is, flatly, impossible(Mirage says hi.)

 

Whilst I appreciate the sentiment that people *really* believe it will help them tons(unless you dramatically change the way drops work at the same time, it won't), it's not fair to what an extreme amount it penalizes those of us who want to be able to get them.

 

Some people farm for MONTHS to get a frame. Needing to farm it a second time, or, worse, being unable to, or having to get yet-another 600 oxium(so many people have issues getting it the first time) is absolutely hideous.

 

Changing the way it's done to something comparable would be fine. Getting rid of it entirely is a horrible, cruel idea that helps no one(anyone going "but I won't get tail wind or slash dash", congrats, I'd like to remind you that you'll be getting ammo drum instead).

 

You guys have a way of letting things get lost track of. For example, melee 2.0 took 4 months from when you *thought* it would be ready. Imagine if you had taken out melee 1.0 after you announced melee 2.0, and made melee unusuable until melee 2.0 came out. You'd have lost 1/2 the players. Yet, here you are, offering to do the same thing with ability mods.

 

I'm okay with them being removed, IF, AND ONLY IF, there's a substitute method(again, "build a new frame" is NOT a substitute for "shoot 8 lancers"). Hell, I even suggested a way to do it happily: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/316409-solution-to-ability-drops-training-template-mod/

 

However, until such a method is ready to go live, there is absolutely no reason at all for this to be done.

 

I would *especially* like to make a note that several pet abilities(like scavenge, coolant leak) have no way at all to be obtained if they're *not* drops.

 

Before anyone posts, yes, I know I can get EXACTLY ONE if I make a warframe, but I *NEED*, for my play style, *more* than one.

 

I'm glad you guys want to take initiative on "making it better", but "purposely wrecking what isn't currently broken, with a fix maaaaaaybe later" is a horrible idea. Get the alternative in place first, then make the switch.

 

It's taken over 8 months for hubs, and they're still not done. I don't want to wait that long to use my warframes.

[vaugahn]

Why do you need more than one copy of a single ability?

[Utarious]

I just don't get why the Ability mods can't be placed in the market.

 

 

Why do you need more than one copy of a single ability?

Sometimes people prefer to have a option of a maxed ability or for example a unranked ability for builds.

[vaugahn]

Sometimes people prefer to have a option of a maxed ability or for example a unranked ability for builds.

 

They talked about underclocking mods. 

[Utarious]

They talked about underclocking mods. 

Forgot about that.

 

That is another way to fix it too, and actually just help with modding and builds as a whole if they do go down that route.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Utarious

[Somedude1000]

Man imagine how many people are gonna capitalize on this by selling ability mods for prices that are too damn high...

Edited October 4, 2014 by Somedude1000

[xlraistlx]

I suppose this has something to do with today's livestream but I didn't watched it live and not sure it I will. Yet I've read several times (and I mean more than eight) people proposing them be moved to the market, making them available for credits, what is wrong with that?

 

The ability mods we aint using are normally sold, but when we suddenly want another copy with less rank in it so you don't need to forma again for 1 point, you find a grnd wall that is horrible given that the 3rd and 4th ability are "rare" mods.

 

I repeat, I did not watched the livestream, but not having a chance to get a duplicate of the ability mods looks like a bad feature. Put them in the market and everyone's happy.

[Wynn]

The underclocking mods comment about the fix in U16 might be as simple as the power mods won't have a cost and or built into the farm.

But Steve said it won't matter if you're missing say a level 1 ripline in U16.

 

If the power mods had no cost or built in it be easier for us to slot in the general power/focus powers coming when they hit later on.

[StinkyPygmy]

I'm pretty sure they were just throwing ideas around and will almost definitely implement something better then "build another frame".

Under clocking was mentioned.

 

Point being, DE make mistakes, but I doubt they are going to pull a complete removal on us.

I don't have a use for more then one ability mod but I'm aware some people do.

[HurricaneBones]

Hello guys !

 

I've got a solution for you :

 

[MechaTails]

Yeah baby! Wreck everything!

*kicks over table*

*knocks over pies*

>:D

...wait what? Aw, not the kind of thread I thought it was...

[Thaumatos]

I just don't get why the Ability mods can't be placed in the market.

That would be too easy and logical.

 

DE doesn't go that route.  They find strange and convoluted ways of doing things and then wonder why people get upset.

 

 

Point being, DE make mistakes, but I doubt they are going to pull a complete removal on us.

I don't have a use for more then one ability mod but I'm aware some people do.

 

No they are most definitely going to remove the mods from the drop tables.

 

And there will be no recourse (as of right now) for players to get them back without crafting another frame.

 

The point is, they specifically stated that they don't want to put the skills in the market.  Why?  Because DE.  That's why...

Edited October 4, 2014 by Thaumatos

[TaylorsContraction]

They also said there are plans to deal with this in U16, I think suggestions are fine but complaining about it for the sake of complaining about it isn't helping anyone.

[Thaumatos]

They also said there are plans to deal with this in U16, I think suggestions are fine but complaining about it for the sake of complaining about it isn't helping anyone.

It's not complaints for the sake of them when everyone and their mother asks why skills can't just be put on the market and DE says absolutely nothing, just that it isn't happening.

 

People are asking for an explanation as to why it can't make sense.  Why make things harder on yourselves?  Just put them up for a credit cost and be done with it.

 

Worried about transmutation exploitation?  'You can no longer transmute frame skills' .  Done...I just fixed that too.

 

I'm not saying I'm 100% right because I don't have all the facts.  But why is it so hard?  Just please explain DE.  Please...

 

Edit:

 

And if you are indeed going with a permanent change to skills which would re-work their existence in the mod system, just say that.  You don't have to reveal details.  Just say that the functionality of skill cards will be changing.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Thaumatos

[Narfanar]

30 points and 8 slots (for example) just for frame mods without the stupid idea of skill mods (and practically no choice in the matter; they're four skills, you either take from them or you don't)? Yes, please.

Put them in a skill tree like I'm understanding Focus will be and we're done.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Narfanar

[Draciusen]

They hinted at this for U16, with some slight mention of underclocking mods and a heated argument over the future of modding. Did they say ability mods were to be removed in U15 with the solution in U16? Or are we just assuming that for some reason DE is removing the mods first and then deciding the solution later?

[Llyssa]

Okay, to the questions:

1. DE said in the livestream that a: They're removing ability mods from all drop tables SOON, and b: they will *not*(specifically discalimed here) be placed in to the market, nor made available in *any other way* besides, as they stated in the livestream, "You could always craft another one".

 

2. "Underclocking" is the reason for this. Why underclock? well, that has a subset of reasons:

a. Allows you to fill in skills you need on a freshly formaed frame without eating up energy points.

b. Allows you to make builds where shaving a single point off the mod total saves you from having to forma the frame again.

c. In rail conflict, mods are unlocked when your level is high enough to "buy" the points the mod has. Lower ranked mods installed for utility means quicker access to skills.

d. Allows for skill management--some skills are "too strong" for a given purpose when ranked up completely, and not strong enough in others. For example, wanting a spammable rhino stomp for low-ranked missions makes sense(lower duration from lower rank means more use, as you can't use it until the last one wears off), but using a spammable rhino stomp in t4 when you WANT to keep enemies in the air a LONG time is a total, lethal waste of energy. Many skills have different ranks where they're "really good" or "really bad" for certain scenarios, just like that.(Some others offhand: terrify, tailwind, slash dash, rhino charge, molecular prime(to name the most obvious ones))

 

So, while "max-and-ignore" is great if you're not really doing anything interesting with your frames, in advanced play, having multiple copies on hand for swapping out is incredibly useful, and is something you use often, and should have at least one or two saved loadouts containing.

 

EDIT: While it *is* true they mentioned "maybe u16", on average, right now, there's between 10 and 15 weeks (that's 3 to 5 months) per incrimental build. I'm not sure how many people would be happy to be told "just wait 5 months, and if you're lucky, you'll be able to use this again. maybe. If everything pans out right."

Edited October 5, 2014 by Llyssa

[Tatersail]

Hello guys !

 

I've got a solution for you :

 

 

 

For 20 plat

[Tatersail]

Sometimes people prefer to have a option of a maxed ability or for example a unranked ability for builds.

 

The issue is having powers that are actually better when unranked, Fix this and ranks on powers become pointless, (rank 1 Miasma)

Under-ranking powers seems like a mistake on the part of the developers, as I imagine they always intended powers to become stronger as they gain levels (they fixed blessing to stop players using unranked, I expect to see more fixes)

 

After removing ranks from powers, you can simply remove the levels on powers, or ship the powers with the warframe.

Removing warframe mods would be either a massive buff(keep the extra 4 slots) or a massive Nerf(loose 4 slots) and what do you say to the players that have invested months into removing Polarity's from there warframes

 

 

I imagine these are the Arguments that DE employees have been having, and the main reason we haven't seen any movement on this is the general terror of reworking an old game feature that has such a massive impact on the playerbase and game income as features like space combat.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Tatersail

[Sasquatchias]

I am not seeing why the Ability Mods cannot just be put into the Market for Credits.

[Tatersail]

I am not seeing why the Ability Mods cannot just be put into the Market for Credits.

 

Because it reduces the grind, thus removing reason for players to play.

2% chance of dropping rank 1 rip-line from the void means more players spending time in the void and spending plat on mod packs.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Tatersail

[Mokkania]

Because it reduces the grind, thus removing reason for players to play.

2% chance of dropping rank 1 rip-line from the void means more players spending time in the void and spending plat on mod packs.

did I miss something?

If the ability mods are removed then what you want for people to get them as the only option is to build a warframe?

[ThePresident777]

The best solution is the foundry, not the market.  When you make a warframe in the foundry, it should come with BPs for the ability mods so you can make the ability mods in the foundry as many times as you want.

[Narfanar]

EDIT: While it *is* true they mentioned "maybe u16", on average, right now, there's between 10 and 15 weeks (that's 3 to 5 months) per incrimental build. I'm not sure how many people would be happy to be told "just wait 5 months, and if you're lucky, you'll be able to use this again. maybe. If everything pans out right."

 

Wait. By "incremental" you mean ##.x or x.00? Because .x updates don't take nearly that long and an x.00 update isn't "incremental".

That said, yeah, waiting for U16 for this will be... business like normal, really. Not that it was good business to begin with, mind.

 

Also, I support switching ability mod drops (or at least all the common ability mods) with equivalent-rank fusion cores when DE get around to working on the matter.

[Llyssa]

Wait. By "incremental" you mean ##.x or x.00? Because .x updates don't take nearly that long and an x.00 update isn't "incremental".

That said, yeah, waiting for U16 for this will be... business like normal, really. Not that it was good business to begin with, mind.

 

Also, I support switching ability mod drops (or at least all the common ability mods) with equivalent-rank fusion cores when DE get around to working on the matter.

Increment means "to increase by a fixed value, usually 1". U12 is 0.5 less than u12.5, 0.54 less than u12.54, and 1.0 less than u13. Ergo, u12(and u13) and any other such uX.0.0 is an incremental release(versus a "hotfix" or an "update").

 

I don't want to lose the ability before halloween(most likely drop deadline for u15) and not get it again until Valentine's day.(Again, exceedingly plausible release date).

 

I like the foundry idea; I've actually heard that before as "make it what happens when someone makes the systems from bp"... I'm not sure how that flies with the current trade system, but making a batch of ability mods on-demand would be acceptable, so long as the cost is within reason. I'm very open to anything *other* than "make a whole frigging new warframe", as that's jaw-droppingly difficult in so many cases.