Shields Are Bad.

[Dwarfstar]

Here's why. No proc resistance means that there is no point in running a shield-heavy, low hp build.

 

You will die to grineer slash procs over and over.

 

You will die to corpus as their shield damage bonus strips away your shield hp.

 

You get instagibbed by infested toxic procs and auras.

 

This wouldn't be as much of a problem if there weren't frames that are heavily biased toward shield use, such as mag and volt. Volt can get away with a little bit becuase of his energy barrier, but frames like Mag, Ember, and other shield heavy caster types get hosed.

 

There's a really special feel you get from running a frame with 1100 shield/225 health and dying repeatedly to slash procs.

 

it's bad enough that i've switched my caster frames from shield primary to vit+equilibrium / rage+quick thinking type builds. When you're tougher as Mag with 450/495 than you are with 1110/225, on a frame that specializes in shields, then you have a real problem. It doesn't matter how many times I spam shield polarize if i die to level 5 grineer slash procs.

 

Solution should be simple. Shielding should reduce status proc chance on incoming damage. Base it on full shield HP, or have the chance ablate as you lose shields, I don't care. But do something. Shield specs are currently a joke and not worth being used. What is the point of having a shield to stop damage if it doesn't stop damage? Why would someone invent shielding that stops bullets, except when it doesn't and you get damaged anyway?

 

I totally get that before status procs went in, shields were really really good. Auto regenning HP is just great, hide somewhere and get all your HP back. Grineer with slash procs and infested toxic damage is really dangerous, and I like that. But as it is now, the proc system has turned shielding from OP to irrelevant. Time to find some middle ground.

 

Thanks for reading!

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

Double edged sword says "but wait, enemy shields aren't immune to procs either! Waowhaoooaoaooooaoo!!"

 

Shields are fine.

 

The entire point of a slash proc (be it for you or an enemy) is to bypass shields and force DoT. Take that away and you've made the most common melee proc borderline useless.

Edited October 6, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Institute-Marksman]

I play as Mag. I have an armor mod and a Rejuvenation aura. I'll be fine, as long as I dont stand out and in the open.

[Acos]

HP doesn't magically replenish itself if you take cover either. Ideally you would want fairly good shields and health. Still, this game isn't really about face tanking; you will go much farther once you recognize that it's about cover, crowd control, and superior mobility. 

[Stormandreas]

Shields Regen, health doesn't without abilities or mods.

Shields tend to be larger on most frames. 

Shields get hit first, thus, having a regening health pool being hit is preferable.

The Corpus have mostly ARMOUR busting weapons, the grineer have shield busting.

No damage hits your health through shields other than Toxic, which only Tenno and Infested have.

If you're dying to procs, you're either very unlucky, or really not playing smart.

I've got my zephyr at 1000+ shields and 660 health, and I've very VERY rarely been killed with slash procs, and only at around level 40/50 enemies.

[BrotherIcarus]

Is it so hard of a concept to grasp that some things are strong vs X and weak vs Y? The solution is not to rely on shields when fighting Grineer or infested.

 

I feel shields are fine as is. 

[EetNotErn]

Double edged sword says "but wait, enemy shields aren't immune to procs either! Waowhaoooaoaooooaoo!!"

 

Shields are fine.

 

 

 

I don't like this argument because IF there were a balance issue between shield heavy and heath heavy frames, being able to kill enemy shields with procs is an ability that both shield and healthy heavy frames have and doesn't negate the disadvantage that shield heavy frames may have.

 

That being said, I think shields are fine too.

Edited October 6, 2014 by EetNotErn

[EChondo]

Honestly at this point I just go with a max vitality on most of my builds.

 

Shields replenish, health cannot. I'll just carry around some team health regens just in case. And if there's a Nekros with us then I don't need anything.

[FireSegment]

a heavy shield build was would be overpower in the past cuz u need to use health regen mod all the time to to reach what not-yet-heavy shield can already done. That's why i dont think there is a problem with it, just a build issues, Beside, most of the time a single proc cant kill u yet if u find a cover right away, after that i can always found some health orb from a container so it's not too hard if u not soloing.

 

Just for u know, when the proc that go through shield appear, there was a community hot topic aobut this problem so DE know about it and will decrease the kind of mob that can use this proc, So don't worries (right now just try bring regen health aura or bring some health restore, they are cheap)

 

btw, I'm using mag and i dont agree with u that shield stat is useless. @@

Edited October 6, 2014 by FireSegment

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

 

Double edged sword says "but wait, enemy shields aren't immune to procs either! Waowhaoooaoaooooaoo!!"

 

Shields are fine.

 

 

 

I don't like this argument because IF there were a balance issue between shield heavy and heath heavy frames, being able to kill enemy shields with procs is an ability that both shield and healthy heavy frames have and doesn't negate the disadvantage that shield heavy frames may have.

 

That being said, I think shields are fine too.

 

I don't fully understand what you're getting at. There is a proc that immediately wrecks shields and there is a proc that bypasses them to instead wreck health, both of which are accessible to players and enemies. Sounds balanced to me. 

 

Now of course there is the argument that "depleting a shield doesn't kill the target" and to that I ask why you're concerned with having a large shield in the first place if it's really just a buffer to protect your much more important health?

 

Quick Thinking is the only "defense" mod I use and it has yet to fail me.

Edited October 6, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Dwarfstar]

I play as Mag. I have an armor mod and a Rejuvenation aura. I'll be fine, as long as I dont stand out and in the open.

 

You have a mod that buffs your effective HP and a mod that regenerates HP. Notice how you didn't mention any shield-buffing mods?

 

Shields Regen, health doesn't without abilities or mods.

Shields tend to be larger on most frames. 

Shields get hit first, thus, having a regening health pool being hit is preferable.

The Corpus have mostly ARMOUR busting weapons, the grineer have shield busting.

No damage hits your health through shields other than Toxic, which only Tenno and Infested have.

If you're dying to procs, you're either very unlucky, or really not playing smart.

I've got my zephyr at 1000+ shields and 660 health, and I've very VERY rarely been killed with slash procs, and only at around level 40/50 enemies.

 

Slash procs and toxic auras do damage direct to HP. Zephyr has very high base HP and a D aura polarity, making Rejuvenation a natural choice. With Turbulence, you shouldn't have a problem with HP dots on that frame, so it's not a good comparison. I have a similar experience with Zephyr, it's a frame I take if I just don't want to get shot.

 

Is it so hard of a concept to grasp that some things are strong vs X and weak vs Y? The solution is not to rely on shields when fighting Grineer or infested.

 

I feel shields are fine as is. 

 

That's the point. Shields aren't strong against anything, and shield-primary defensive specs are inferior to health-primary specs in just about every regard.

 

Again, this wouldn't be a problem, except that there are plenty of frames who are set up to use shield-primary specs, or have powers that benefit shields. I'm looking at Mag, Volt, Ember, Hydroid, etc. The problem is particularly bad on Mag and Ember, where a couple of slash procs will just put you down. And on certain maps like Kiste or any type of heavy Grineer faceoff, you often don't have the luxury of 'taking cover' or 'playing smart' because your positioning is being dictated by something you have to defend.

 

Let's be clear. I'm not complaining that if 15 Grineer are shooting at you, you die to slash procs. That is how it should be. What I am complaining about is that three consecutive encounters with single level 5 Grineer can kill you due to repeated slash procs, even if they only live for long enough to get a couple of shots off. I don't see why this should be possible against a level 30 potatoed frame with 1000+ shields.

[Rydian]

Shields get hit first, thus, having a regening health pool being hit is preferable.

[...]

No damage hits your health through shields other than Toxic, which only Tenno and Infested have.

Slash procs.  Also with infested, a toxic ancient will give all infested around it direct-health damage attacks.

 

It's more of an issue than it used to be.  I agree with the OP that shield-focused builds are inherently more vulnerable than health-focused builds.  Not to mention that armor doesn't apply to shields, shield damage doesn't activate various mods, etc.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

-snip-

All that equates to is that your title is indeed true. Shields are bad, but they're meant to be bad since they're, once again, just a buffer to protect your health. It'd be different if you could die from a depleted shield but you can't. For those frames you mentioned that rely on shields, I recommend just using Quick Thinking and Flow in tandem. You shouldn't have any issues from slash procs anymore.

 

Stop looking at health and shields like they are equals, they aren't nor should they be. Guess that is just my opinion though.

[JohnProdman]

Health can regenerate just fine if you want it to.

[EetNotErn]

 

 

Double edged sword says "but wait, enemy shields aren't immune to procs either! Waowhaoooaoaooooaoo!!"

 

Shields are fine.

 

 

 

I don't like this argument because IF there were a balance issue between shield heavy and heath heavy frames, being able to kill enemy shields with procs is an ability that both shield and healthy heavy frames have and doesn't negate the disadvantage that shield heavy frames may have.

 

That being said, I think shields are fine too.

 

I don't fully understand what you're getting at. There is a proc that immediately wrecks shields and there is a proc that bypasses them to instead wreck health, both of which are accessible to players and enemies. Sounds balanced to me. 

 

Now of course there is the argument that "depleting a shield doesn't kill the target" and to that I ask why you're concerned with having a large shield in the first place if it's really just a buffer to protect your much more important health?

 

Quick Thinking is the only "defense" mod I use and it has yet to fail me.

 

 

Well what you're saying is exactly what I'm pointing out. Let's pretend that shield builds have a disadvantage compared to health builds. But since both types of builds have access to procs that immediately wreck shields, how does that negate the advantage that health builds might have over shield builds since shield builds can be wrecked so easily as well while health builds won't?

 

It's like saying Player 1 with 1 health and Player 2 with 1000 health are balanced because they both have procs that wreck the enemy. Again, I'm not saying shields have issues but I'm just nitpicking your argument.

 

Also, I also use Quick Thinking as my main defense on some frames as well. But it doesn't work with all frames and builds.

Edited October 6, 2014 by EetNotErn

[Rydian]

 

-snip-

All that equates to is that your title is indeed true. Shields are bad, but they're meant to be bad since they're, once again, just a buffer to protect your health. It'd be different if you could die from a depleted shield but you can't. For those frames you mentioned that rely on shields, I recommend just using Quick Thinking and Flow in tandem. You shouldn't have any issues from slash procs anymore.

 

Stop looking at health and shields like they are equals, they aren't nor should they be. Guess that is just my opinion though.

 

"They are a buffer to protect your health"

 

But they suck at it.  That's the point of this thread, and OP named multiple examples.

 

We understand what shields are SUPPOSED to do.

 

But they do not do it.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

 

 

 

Double edged sword says "but wait, enemy shields aren't immune to procs either! Waowhaoooaoaooooaoo!!"

 

Shields are fine.

 

 

 

I don't like this argument because IF there were a balance issue between shield heavy and heath heavy frames, being able to kill enemy shields with procs is an ability that both shield and healthy heavy frames have and doesn't negate the disadvantage that shield heavy frames may have.

 

That being said, I think shields are fine too.

 

I don't fully understand what you're getting at. There is a proc that immediately wrecks shields and there is a proc that bypasses them to instead wreck health, both of which are accessible to players and enemies. Sounds balanced to me. 

 

Now of course there is the argument that "depleting a shield doesn't kill the target" and to that I ask why you're concerned with having a large shield in the first place if it's really just a buffer to protect your much more important health?

 

Quick Thinking is the only "defense" mod I use and it has yet to fail me.

 

 

Well what you're saying is exactly what I'm pointing out. Let's pretend that shield builds have a disadvantage compared to health builds. But since both types of builds have access to procs that immediately wreck shields, how does that negate the advantage that health builds might have over shield builds since shield builds can be wrecked so easily as well while health builds won't?

 

It's like saying Player 1 with 1 health and Player 2 with 1000 health are balanced because they both have procs that wreck the enemy. Again, I'm not saying shields have issues but I'm just nitpicking your argument.

 

They are. So long as Player 1 was smart enough to equip a certain mod that prevents his low health pool from killing him.

[Keiiken]

Health can regenerate just fine if you want it to.

 

Not at the rate shields regen.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

 

 

-snip-

All that equates to is that your title is indeed true. Shields are bad, but they're meant to be bad since they're, once again, just a buffer to protect your health. It'd be different if you could die from a depleted shield but you can't. For those frames you mentioned that rely on shields, I recommend just using Quick Thinking and Flow in tandem. You shouldn't have any issues from slash procs anymore.

 

Stop looking at health and shields like they are equals, they aren't nor should they be. Guess that is just my opinion though.

 

"They are a buffer to protect your health"

 

But they suck at it.  That's the point of this thread, and OP named multiple examples.

 

We understand what shields are SUPPOSED to do.

 

But they do not do it.

 

They work fine for me. If you guys really think we need moar power creep with better shields, far be it from me to say that my already-never-dying self cares.

[FREQ1989]

So the real point to be made here is to buff the base armor of the aforementioned frames to help mitigate the damage from slash procs, toxic, etc, so you don't feel the reality of low health as much. Another option is to better increase the scaling if you put on the armor mod. In any case, direct health damaging procs can be a problem, but that isn't the fault of the shield mechanic in the game. It is really more of a fault of poor base armor ratings on frames with a less than desirable scaling on shields or health, and it should be something for DE to reconsider seeing as some of these frames aren't used as much as they used to be back before damage 2.0. This is all just opinion though, feel free to disagree, just don't be rude about it.

Edited October 6, 2014 by FREQ1989

[Rydian]

 

 

 

-snip-

All that equates to is that your title is indeed true. Shields are bad, but they're meant to be bad since they're, once again, just a buffer to protect your health. It'd be different if you could die from a depleted shield but you can't. For those frames you mentioned that rely on shields, I recommend just using Quick Thinking and Flow in tandem. You shouldn't have any issues from slash procs anymore.

 

Stop looking at health and shields like they are equals, they aren't nor should they be. Guess that is just my opinion though.

 

"They are a buffer to protect your health"

 

But they suck at it.  That's the point of this thread, and OP named multiple examples.

 

We understand what shields are SUPPOSED to do.

 

But they do not do it.

 

They work fine for me. If you guys really think we need moar power creep with better shields, far be it from me to say that my already-never-dying self cares.

 

I'm saying that there are multiple common types of damage that shields do not protect against.

And you're saying shields work fine for you.

 

So... are telling me that slash damage and toxic damage sources do not damage your health when your shields are still up?

 

'Cause if not, you should go report that in the PS4 bugs section.

[letir]

They are. So long as Player 1 was smart enough to equip a certain mod that prevents his low health pool from killing him.

So, shields aren't working properly, and we need super-rare mod to make them functional.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

 

They are. So long as Player 1 was smart enough to equip a certain mod that prevents his low health pool from killing him.

So, shields aren't working properly, and we need super-rare mod to make them functional.

 

Yes, that.

 

I've literally never used Vigor/Redirection because I don't see the point in either. Shield Recharge rate is hardly useful either.

 

I already agreed that OP is right on shields being bad. I just don't think they matter. I rarely die on my newer Xbox One profile which doesn't have QT, and I don't even use any defense oriented mods whatsoever on there. So I'll repeat my main point that I've already stated.

 

Shields are fine.

Edited October 6, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[EetNotErn]

 

They are. So long as Player 1 was smart enough to equip a certain mod that prevents his low health pool from killing him.

 

 

 

 

 

*facepalm"   Now you're just completely changing the argument that you originally had. But whatever man.

 

They work fine for me. If you guys really think we need moar power creep with better shields, far be it from me to say that my already-never-dying self cares.

 

 

I happen to agree with you that we don't need power creep and that shields are fine but I loathe the way you lay out your arguments. For crap's sakes man, tone it down.

Edited October 6, 2014 by EetNotErn

[JohnProdman]

 

Health can regenerate just fine if you want it to.

 

Not at the rate shields regen.

 

It would be overpowered as hell if they could. They have shields.