I Find It Incredibly Odd That De Refuse To Fix Gameplay/balance Problems Within Warframe

[Innocent_Flower]

So, after a long period of absence (faulty computer, moving to uni and so on) I come back to warframe and find...

 

 

weapon balance is still awful. The boltor is still a king and braton-prime is a very expensive piece of crap. There are many items in the game that are really hard to craft, that are totaly awful. (there are also good items that are very easy to make, but that's less of an issue) 

 

The game is still almost always either too easy or too hard, because mods are mostly overpowered. you're either getting instakilled and unable to put a dent in their armour, or you're a jadded juggernaut who has no challenge. Both of which are awful game mechanics for a third person shooter.

 

There are still no end game enemies. You're not fighting interesting specialized elite units, you're fighting lancer (58). 

 

Corrupted enemies. There's extremely little variety in them even though it'd be very easy to add new ones. Players spend so much time farming in the void and the corrupted are still in pre-alpha stages. 

 

 

 

The question is "why?" because, quite simply, these aren't exactly the most difficult problems to fix or even just have an attempt on (I speak as someone who's made a few mods for other games before) . They're not even that time consuming and a single person could have a fair go at fixing them within a week. 

[ValhaHazred]

You've made a couple of mods? That's great. Provide evidence so we can see what you think balance is supposed to be.

 

Did any of these mods provide dozens of weapons and over 50 different enemy units?

Edited October 12, 2014 by ValhaHazred

[Cleesus]

You've made a couple of mods? That's great. Provide evidence so we can see what you think balance is supposed to be.

 

Did any of these mods provide dozens of weapons and over 50 different enemy units?

No need to start a pointles arguement

[AlphaHorseman]

Whoa, this is borderline bashing my friend. This game is massive, dynamic, and there's so much content that DE has a lot on their plate already. You do realize they're working on projects left and right, trying to hash out bugs with hotfixes that come out weekly, that ALSO add in something new almost every week, be it a weapon, event, cosmetic, or otherwise. Not to mention that DE isn't a big game developer, this is a small studio working on a massive project, it's going to take time to do massive changes like this.

 

Though I'd agree that balancing is something this game needs work on (among other things), also realize that they don't have all the systems in place yet for this game. Though I'd love for them to balance things out now, I realize that they're not balancing everything at once because they're also trying to put new systems into place.

 

Things might seem balance once they've done a couple of balance passes on things that they've already installed into the game, but if they input a new system into the game that changes or modifies the functions of other systems, then they'd have to rebalance the weapons again. Though I understand that balance needs to be done, and I agree done soon, I would also hope they do this with the future of new incoming systems, and systems already in place, in mind.

[Rydian]

You've made a couple of mods? That's great. Provide evidence so we can see what you think balance is supposed to be.

 

Did any of these mods provide dozens of weapons and over 50 different enemy units?

Okay, wait up there.  You don't need to be a game designer to know that when the Boltor Prime is Mastery Rank 0, the game has balance and progression issues.  These are obvious, and DE not wanting to touch these issues quickly is also obvious.

 

They do take steps towards balancing, but these are spaced out over time and rarely touch more than a few items at a time.

[FaintestAura]

Sure there are a lot of balance issues in the game. It is just, with the continual editions this game receives, it becomes increasingly difficult to balance. This game has grown tremendously and to tackle the issue of balancing may take an entire new update to even begin.

 

Sure you may believe it is not to difficult to start, but think about it, they are creating a variety of things that the devs are extremely excited about. They want to push new content and I realize that sometimes it is at the expense of issues. It will happen. Game is ever changing 

 

Oh and btw they are not refusing to fix things, that is a silly thing to say. 

Edited October 12, 2014 by FaintestAura

[vaugahn]

 these aren't exactly the most difficult problems to fix or even just have an attempt on (I speak as someone who's made a few mods for other games before) . They're not even that time consuming and a single person could have a fair go at fixing them within a week. 

 

I seriously doubt that. Balance is an absolutely enormous task, and not only that we don't even have the full framework in place to balance in. It's all well and good to say that a few numbers could be tuned up quick and easy, but that doesn't really take into account the full scope of what is required here.

 

To answer your question, they're working on it.

 

As for the "they don't want to balance" thing, here's a quote I pulled from an article written by a game designer about balance:

 

"Tuning before launch can happen in a slightly different way than tuning post-launch. Before we launch, we can easily cut the heads off of the proverbial tall blades of grass. If something is much too powerful, there's no practical problem with simply cutting the power down dramatically. Once a game has gone out into the world, however, players become invested in the way things are and a subset of them can respond with extreme negativity to anything coming down in power."

 

They walk a very fine line here. Sweeping changes are required, and yet many players would be outraged if that sweeping change happened to affect their favorite thing. 

Edited October 12, 2014 by vaugahn

[omegaskorpion]

many problems havent been fixed (and i have my self complained about it about 100000 times)

 

DE could try to solve thease mastery ranks in weekly updates and major things (like void) in bigger updates.

 

(still, great game, but needs fixing to keep the end game interesting)

[ValhaHazred]

No need to start a pointles arguement

 

Sorry, you're right I did over react.

 

I just really doubt this guys claims that he knows better than DE. I agree there are balance issues but it's an ongoing work, it's harder than he claims it is and we do see them re-balance things.

 

If the OP just said "DE, you have balance issues and these are my ideas for a few of them" and then actually had some ideas I'd have no issue.

 

Just claiming they totally know how to fix everything because they made an unspecified mod for an unknown game is an Argumant from Authority with nothing to back it up.

[Senketsu_]

Why is it that most of your posts here are always a complaint thread with no feedback or suggestions.

[Cleesus]

Sorry, you're right I did over react.

 

I just really doubt this guys claims that he knows better than DE. I agree there are balance issues but it's an ongoing work, it's harder than he claims it is and we do see them re-balance things.

 

If the OP just said "DE, you have balance issues and these are my ideas for a few of them" and then actually had some ideas I'd have no issue.

 

Just claiming they totally know how to fix everything because they made an unspecified mod for an unknown game is an Argumant from Authority with nothing to back it up.

Yeah he could have worried things more constructively i agree.

[(PSN)Darkturn]

Balance Issues? Maybe, but that this is truth to all games because there will be always this one good weapon/armor/whatever.

I agree that there is not many enemy typ but that holds truth to some extend as DE keep add more.

End game content? I'm be fair but what are you expect that to be, DE said that all content could be end game it's the time you spend doing A and B rather say I play A then play B as end game content, I play enough MMO to say that a game that has those what you call end  game content are rather boring and is only to satisfied grinding hunters. Still the game grow every day a little and is pretty entertainment and keep be in every time. 

I also don't see why you want another faction that probably will lack on various which you said was the issues, just because you bored with those enemy? What about other game, just try to think about it.

However the last comment took the cake, lets say I slap a filter on then release it into xyzmods.com I could say I made some mods too :P

But I'm not here for that naive comment tho but I'll rather question it: Would you be able to create balance some new models, new models wit balance and that create new mods, new mission typ better structure and program new physic engine for water light shadow and all the stuff?

Probably not. You sound ambition but you lack the imagination. Mods are not a game nor does it even can compete to a game, mods can be install with the freedom on every player but changes within a game can be fatal and even make people stop playing the game at all. The responsibility is huge, specially to make it right for everyone. 

[unknow99]

You see, Flower, if you point out the problems this game has (and you're right about them) but don't give ways to solve them, people will see this as simple bashing,unfortunately. (it's not the 1st time,and there's always people telling you "calm down dude,they're working on it!")

 

Balance is a hard issue. IMO they'd need an entire hotfix/ update focused only on it. DE keeps adding more content (and it's a good thing) but I think they should briefly look back and see what to do with stuff that are taking some dust.

 

Endgame enemies? Bosses are getting their well deserved reworks. I really hope that "enemies of the tenno" fan submissions will soon show themselves. That manic grineer, the ranged infested & other non-winner concepts might give some players goosebumps. :)

 

I also am surprised that the only people corrupted so far are grineer butchers,heavy gunners, and corpus crewmen. There's many,many other enemies that can get a corrupted version, come on... Same thought for elite units : only elite lancers/crewmen & they could have more advanced tactics than the usual lancer moveset.

[steak]

I don't understand why the community is so reluctant on talking about balance, but I think this is the main reason why the issue has taken such proportions.

Any sane dev seeing this kind of discussion wouldnt want to stick his fingers on the wasp nest that balance is.

Edited October 12, 2014 by steak

[Rydian]

I don't understand why the community is so reluctant on talking about balance, but I think this is the main reason why the issue has taken such proportions.

Any sane dev seeing this kind of discussion wouldnt want to stick his fingers on the wasp nest that balance is.

Yeah, DE's obviously afraid of backlash from balance changes, so recently they've only been touching a few things at a time (a frame, sometimes even just one ability on one frame) and when they do plan to affect multiple things at once they give a warning ahead of time (launcher ammo change).

[Taranis49]

Yeah, DE's obviously afraid of backlash from balance changes, so recently they've only been touching a few things at a time (a frame, sometimes even just one ability on one frame) and when they do plan to affect multiple things at once they give a warning ahead of time (launcher ammo change).

 

Of course, the playerbase kinda needed to "encourage" them to do so... what with the reaction to things like the unannounced removal of Infested from the system map a few months back. :-P

[Feallike]

Their over 1000 mods, about 500 enemies all with their own 3 super versions, 13 bosses, 21 Warframes all with their own abilities, 200-500 weapons, and many other factors of parkour and such.

 

 

You can't change one thing without it effecting everything. If the DE nerfed Serration, then a bunch of weapons would be useless, and many enemies would become OP causing a altogether ballancing being needed.

 

Designing a game like warframe is exponentially due to how much the players try to break the game. :/ If their is a exploit the players will find it.

 

 

Every ballance the DE does is a risk, if they buff THIS frame, will the players think THAT frame is useless now?

 

If we nerf BoltorPrime but buff Braton prime will Boltor prime become useless and never used? 

 

Their are many more factors in the works other then, THIS is broken so we fixed it. This is a game with a huge playerbase, not a game with 100 players.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Feallike

[grillv20]

I would just be happy if half the items in the game were not crammed into the void. Nothing is more unappealing and boring to me than literally running the same missions over and over and over and over on the same tile sets. The void used to be cool to me but there is literally so much crap in there now that it just doesn't interest me. With each update they pour more and more stuff into it too which makes it that much less appealing to me. I understand that they're supposed to be the best weapons and the best versions of the frames but was it really that great of an idea to shove it all on the same tile sets? I wonder when they will be done with the void and when they're going to move on to something else.

[hijinks_the_turtle]

Kind of ranty but I see your point.  The problem is the flood of hate posts DE would get, I know many peeps on and off the forums who wanna get Boltor P nerfed or have a changed rank.  Though, they got lots of things coming up.

[Innocent_Flower]

I did use to post threads on how to specifically balance things, but few read that. My thread on balancing prime weapons for instance (with stats and explanations and everything) was well recieved but ultimately ignored by DE. 

 

the too easy/too hard thing is an issue of both mods and enemy scaling. both would need to be fixed simultaniously. But is that realy an issue?

 

With elite, specialised units, you could add them by giving them a chance to replace another character depending on the level. For example a seeker could become an elite seeker, or a heavy seeker, or a scout seeker, or another type of seeker with unique mine properties. You could create new enemies with already existing assets; Heavy melee grineer, Helions with different weapons, osprey that provide their allies with different bonuses, guys who specialize in throwing tons of 'nades , eximus with a power that already exists that they don't yet use (cloning, teleporting, invisibility etc)

 

With corrupted, you could literaly grab an enemy from another faction, change his faction and colour him white (with yellow energy). you'd have to do the same to his weapon; but it realy isn't a huge thing.