Limbo Feedback By Einde : The Perfect Exemple Of Good Ideas Spoiled By A Bad Design.

[AbstractLemons]

Limbos mechanic is based around giving the party semi invincibility and tries to balance itself by giving invincibility to the enemy forces. However this causes problems with him really ONLY synergizing with caster frames who wont need to be in the rift to do that extra damage when 3 is used. If three is supposed to be a support buff change it from a debuff to a buff to the party.

 

I'd probbaly say 3 should infuse the party's weapons and warframes with energy from the otherside allowing them to deal damage to banished targets and normal ones, this could come at the expense of banishing allies so banishing them or yourself should turn this buff off while activating the buff un banishes allies. As a bonus this makes Limbo more friendly with non caster frames, while not having frames like mirage running around invincible and gunning everything down by herself which would make the match very one sided.

 

If players attack banished targets while buffed they deal extra damage, if attacking unbanished enemies do normal damage, however weapons have  good chance of procing the banish effect on enemies who will then be subject to the damage boost of the player. This will create a unique hybrid of a buff that has offensive and defensive properties. Remember this buff is at the cost of not being able to enter the rift or the buff will be dispelled so all the non banished enemies can still pose some threat theres just less to deal with at one time now.

 

 A lot of people are saying it should trap them inside but the size would have to be adjusted because that is a really big area to just trap half of the enemies in. With a large bubble putting that down on your team would be ineffective because its a shorter distance for enemies to travel to be on the same plane while making it smaller will make it more difficult to remove a group of enemies especially if they just walk back into the normal world.

 

So a possible adjustment to the functionality of the skill is that the banish effect is treated like a status proc, enemies that enter the rift and then leave will still be banished outside of the bubble lasting as long as the skill does perhaps? Cataclysm is basically an aoe banish so let it be one with the benefit of it acting like a trap. This will more reliably remove a large group of enemies from battle for a period of time so the group has less to deal with, which is obviously what the skill is meant to do. Since the banish effect is basically a unique proc to limbo i say it should be treated as one.

Edited October 26, 2014 by AbstractLemons

[Cyberspace100]

I dont understand what you hate...all of limbos skill are fine. Everyone seems to want another Rhino or another Hydriod..he is a differnt warframe and plays like one.

 

Banish-Displaces a target into the rift plane, inflicting additional damage if the target is hostile. This is perfectly fine great utility at high levels.

 

Rift Walk-Limbo phases into the Rift Plane for 10 / 15 / 25 / 30 seconds, gaining all benefits and drawbacks of being in the Rift Plane. Great in any mission or situation.

 

Rift Surge-Limbo sends forth a surge of void energy, causing all enemies in the Rift Plane to take 120% / 130% / 140% / 150% bonus damage from all sources for 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 seconds. Also awsome.

 

Cataclysm-A violent blast of void energy tears open a pocket of rift plane which can sustain itself for a short period before collapsing in another lethal blast.

 

His abilites are supposed to be used together-Place Cataclysm on a group of enemies to transfer them into the Rift Plane. Cataclysm isolates the enemies within the sphere, preventing them from damaging allies outside, and allowing Limbo to use ranged weapons to dispatch them from a safe distance OP. Use Banish to target a specific enemy. It will be knocked down and transferred to the Rift Plane, allowing to go into the fift plane Limbo and  to damage it with ranged weapons and perform a Ground Finisher melee attack on it. OP.

Stop hating on a warframe you have barely played..he's fine and no matter hom much you winge they aint gonna chage him for a long time..get used to it. It took 3 full updates for oberon and he was realy bad, limbo is fine.

[Ryouhi]

Okay, i haven't played him myself yet (he's cooking in the oven right now), but i'll judge from i have read and seen of him for now

 

1. Banish:

Sounds like a great ability on paper, but to be honest it sounds like a somewhat weaker Mind Control (f.e.).

With Mind control, not only do you disable the enemy, but he will also help you and can still be damaged (by both you and enemies)

 

What most people seem to want for this is to make it AoE, which is understandable.

The idea behind making it single target was probably so that you can pick out those heavies to deal with 1on1 and not accidentaly pull n 10 other enemies, or trying to save a teammate with low HP by pulling him in the rift, but since he was surrounded by enemies his situation wouldn't really have changed, other than your team cant attack them now..

 

Personally, i'd say that tapping it will only banish one single target, while holding it (for a second or so) will make it AoE, so you can still have that single target seperate/save ability, but also mass seperation for most other situations

 

Other than that, there's not really much need to put enemies into the rift, you might just as well kill them in the normal plane and use any other CC Frame if needed.

Like OP said, a buff/debuff enviroment would be fantastic.

 

Rift Walk:

pretty simple, allows you to switch between planes.

Like you said, it would be nice if this  would have been somehow integrated into another skill, but with my change to banish there wouldn't be much space for it, since it already utilizes tap/hold-mechanics

 

Rift Surge:

Probably the most underwhelming of his abilities

A very low (considering the setup needed) Damage increase

This is simply not enough, it should be a far higher Damage bonus for all the setup needed to use this properly.

 

On top of the Damage bonus, i would say maybe it would knockdown all enemies currently in the rift and inflict a slight DoT on them.

Other suggestions have been, to allow others to shoot inside the rift while this is active, which would be great too.

Something like an inside out snow globe? :D

 

Cataclysm:

Not seen yet really, but sound like a combination of Banish and Rift Walk to be honest

This sounds more like if Banish simply was AoE (though much bigger probably), but it also decreeased in size over time and fromn what i have heard, the damage seems to be pretty low.

Coupled with that enemies can simply walk out of it since there is no slow or something.

 

I think enemies that are hit by this should be stuck in there, being pushed closer and closer together while the bubble shrinks and dealing substantual damage doing so.

After the bubble runs out, it should do one last implosion/explosion that actually deals some damage

 

 

 

Anyway, this really is just based on what i have read/seen of him so take that for what you will.

But the general consensus seems to be underwhelming troll frame, so any kind of buffs would be nice i guess

[Skullriot]

agree with OP and really limbo need to rework his skill ASAP.

btw i got some tip for his team-play job

 

 

forget in picture Zone A : Ally/Yourself will not get hurt by other enemies and suggest on less duration build

but idk that will be work on pub game

I get your theory, and it's sound, but the combat move so fast in warframe that this strategy is actually worse than just not using Limbo's skills. 

 

Not to mention the full screen effect when you are in the void is just so overwhelming, it's hard to eve see anything. 

 

 

I dont understand what you hate...all of limbos skill are fine. Everyone seems to want another Rhino or another Hydriod..he is a differnt warframe and plays like one.

 

The issue is more about utility. I don't think I have heard anyone ask for another frame like any others. Limbo's abilities are just TOO niche, and lose out in usefulness in groups. 

Edited October 26, 2014 by Skullriot

[Esguord]

Almost everyone who has Limbo has complained about him. The thing is, do you guys think DE will do something about him? (not rhetorically, I'm really asking)

[Vashramire]

I'm up and down about him but trying to remain hopeful. People say a lot don't know how to use him but I'm pretty sure it's been figured out. Most of the strategies people suggest if not Banish assassinating, is using Cataclysm to zone and kill enemies much like Shafilp has explained. It's a valid way to try and play but ideally really only works on defensive missions where your team isn't scattered around murdering the map. Skullriot is right that most of the time combat is to fast paced to employ those strategies consistently. People blitzing through a sabotage aren't going to care that you set up Cataclysm and wait for you to banish them so they can attack the bubble only to have the enemies die or leave it and your friends are stuck for the rest of the time unable to pickup anything or help unless you Banish more slowly 1 by 1. It sounds good until you start running high level stuff and they just come in droves and you have to what for the cooldown on Cata to come up to use it again. Or is it really effective to Banish the 12 Ancients 1 by 1? Maybe if it was channeled so you could pick the duration it wouldn't be as bad but I find my teammates feel that I'm wasting their time with trying to force them to use me in a team. Which is what it is. Maybe a teammate I Banished isn't even firing at targets I Banished and is now disoriented or didn't notice and is just wasting ammo. The safest bet most times is to pop Cata in a place that isn't in the way so teammates can use it like Snow Globe for relief and can exit at will to engage. For defense or any defendable mission types, Shafilp's strategies can work. You can basically "turn off" enemies in an area or doorway or hide in plain site on a Life Support. And the problem isn't that no one uses him "right", it's that he's only really useful in certain situations and sometimes only with certain teams. He's too niche. Even Frost can run other stuff than Defense.

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

I just quit a mission because of how someone was playing Limbo. I think you can guess what they were doing...

That said, I don't think there is any need to rework him, just tweak a few things. The biggest two issues I have are:

 

-The fact that players can be brought into the void without consent.

 

-The effects of being brought into the void are so visually blinding.

 

Honestly, his powers are useful if built correctly. Take Cataclysm for example; With maximized duration and balanced range, you could put a cryopod into the void for quite a long time without effecting any other players (i.e. making a large impenetrable barrier).

 

Players just don't know how to play him and, like Loki, they could potentially be harming to the mission and other players because of the inexperience.

[FoxFX]

After playing with Limbo to rank 30, I feel the idea is good, but the execution needs some serious work. The fact that you can't pick up items and objective items in missions can be a HUGE drawback and a nuisance for your team. Here are my suggestions on what Limbo's ability should do so far:

 

Rift World (General Idea): I think the idea of items not being able to be picked up in the Rift World doesn't make much sense since you are bringing with you the item that you carry into the Rift World as well. Items that are in the Rift Zone by Cataclysm should be considered part of the Rift Zone as well as any items that a Warframe is carrying (like datamasses) which is sent to the Rift Zone by Banish or that enters it by entering in Cataclysm.

 

Banish: It is fine as is.

 

Rift Walk: Just fix the AOE glitch since enemy AOEs in the Real World are still part of the Real World as well as Eximus Auras.

 

Rift Surge: The idea that you do more damage in the Rift Zone is fine, but there should be another unique add-on to this ability. Activating this skill should allow Limbo to do damage to enemies in the Real World while in the Rift World as well as being able to damage enemies in the Rift World while in the Real World. If Limbo is able to cross both worlds, he should have some way to do this as well.

 

Cataclysm: Idea is good, but some more utility should be added. The explosion @ the end of Cataclysm should deal a bit more damage and have a bit more range as well as being able to knockdown enemies affected by the blast.

 

That or...Change Cataclysm to like some moveable Globe that surrounds Limbo (similar to how Ice Eximus has with their version of Snow Globe) that damages and temporarily stuns enemies that enter and leave the Rift World. Make it into some It shouldn't have a duration and it should be cancellable. Once the skill is cancelled, then the explosion happens.

 

Strategy to Utilize so far with Limbo:

 

Right now, the one effective strategy to be fighting as Limbo is to stay in the Rift World with Rift Walk when in combat and pick-off the stronger enemies using Banish/Cataclysm to bring them into the Rift World to finish them off.

 

And that I guess is my initial take on Limbo the Rift Warframe.

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

Hey everyone, does this image help?

 

[Ryouhi]

3 of his 4 Skills simply feel as if they're all the same thing.

Namely Banish, Rift Walk and Cataclysm are all about putting people into the rift.

3 Skills that could basically all be one.

Which leaves us with only one other 'different' ability, which gives us a measly 1.5x Damage Amp.

i think banish should simply be AoE and if held down, puts yourself into the Rift.

Banish would now basically be a smaller cataclysm and would free up space for 2 'new' abilities

[LascarCapable]

All right folks, so I went in the Limbo's Wiki page again today, and I discovered that message in the comments :

 

nope youre just mad coz DE finally (praise them) added a kick option for rhinos my banish last 1 min 34 seconds if rhino joins i just use it to him he leaves after a minute

since this guy is i havent seen a single rhino in my games aah the excasy makes me jizz 10 times per rhino player

 

That's just something really worring. I don't want to think what would happen if that behaviour went to spread... Folks, I conjure you, do NEVER use a Limbo like that, and report to the player support desk all kind of players acting like that. This is just a disgusting way to act.

 

 

 

Almost everyone who has Limbo has complained about him. The thing is, do you guys think DE will do something about him? (not rhetorically, I'm really asking)

 

So far, when a sufficient number of community members made some feedback about something needing some tweaks, it was oftenly done sooner or later. Most of the time, the changes are coming fast when the content is new and the negative feedback numerous. I guess that asking for changes wouldn't hurt then.

 

 

His abilites are supposed to be used together-Place Cataclysm on a group of enemies to transfer them into the Rift Plane. Cataclysm isolates the enemies within the sphere, preventing them from damaging allies outside, and allowing Limbo to use ranged weapons to dispatch them from a safe distance OP. Use Banish to target a specific enemy. It will be knocked down and transferred to the Rift Plane, allowing to go into the fift plane Limbo and  to damage it with ranged weapons and perform a Ground Finisher melee attack on it. OP.

Stop hating on a warframe you have barely played..he's fine and no matter hom much you winge they aint gonna chage him for a long time..get used to it. It took 3 full updates for oberon and he was realy bad, limbo is fine.

 

The main problem is about the time you're taking to put everyone into the rift. Most of the time, CCing the whole crowd with bastille or another CC skill will be much more efficient than putting everyone in cataclysm and then going to the rift. A CC skill is also less risky, Cataclysm is shrinking over time, does not prevent enemies from exiting the aera of effect, and does not CC the crowd, so you will still take damage if you enter into the rift from the ennemies you put inside. The second problem coming with the mechanic is that it is totally impractical, since teammates who would like to kill banished enemies have to be into the rift too. By proceeding like this, you're just making the job harder.

 

Limbo have some kind of usefulness when it's about covering allies, but is totally unsuited when it's about dealing with enemies (at leat IMO), and banishing an ally may have heavy consequences if it's not done right. Not mentionning the numerous trolling possibilities.

 

At the end, I'll just return your last sentence to you : where you able to try that warframe yet ?

 

 

-snip-

 

This is kind of helpful indeed. Yet, that does not make my points irrevelant. Limbo could be much more than that. :p

 

I applaud your initiative though. :)

 

 

3 of his 4 Skills simply feel as if they're all the same thing. Namely Banish, Rift Walk and Cataclysm are all about putting people into the rift. 3 Skills that could basically all be one. Which leaves us with only one other 'different' ability, which gives us a measly 1.5x Damage Amp. i think banish should simply be AoE and if held down, puts yourself into the Rift. Banish would now basically be a smaller cataclysm and would free up space for 2 'new' abilities

 

It's a bit worse than that, because the third skill only affect banished ennemies ! Meanwhile you have Warframes like Banshee or Volt that are able to give you stronger bonuses without a lot of drawbacks. :/

Edited October 26, 2014 by Einde

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

This is kind of helpful indeed. Yet, that does not make my points irrevelant. Limbo could be much more than that. :p

 

I applaud your initiative though. :)

You're definitely right. His skills need tweaking, but right now these are 3 useful ways to play him that I have not seen used ONCE. 

[Cleesus]

Hey everyone, does this image help?

 

I thought those strategies were the general idea on how to use limbo that everyone already knew. Thats how i play him but even then he is extremely subpar.

[GideonG]

I thought those strategies were the general idea on how to use limbo that everyone already knew. Thats how i play him but even then he is extremely subpar.

 

That's what I'm finding as well. Loki performs a similar function, but far more effectively. The only thing I find really useful with Limbo is the energy regeneration.

[Gahrzerkire]

Your flat out right.

[Cleesus]

That's what I'm finding as well. Loki performs a similar function, but far more effectively. The only thing I find really useful with Limbo is the energy regeneration.

same here, Nyx and frost can also be alternatives to his skills without all the extraness and trolling potential. V

[Ryouhi]

It's a bit worse than that, because the third skill only affect banished ennemies ! Meanwhile you have Warframes like Banshee or Volt that are able to give you stronger bonuses without a lot of drawbacks. :/

That's the point i was trying to make though.

What i meant was, you have 3 out of your 4 abilities that basically do nothing other than put your team and enemies into the rift.

3 Ability slots wasted for doing the same thing, and the best thing you can do with the rift is get that 1.5x damage amp and some energy regen.

Might as well take rhino with energy regen aura and you'll have the same rsults, but tankier and actually has more abilities to top it off.

They really just need to put together 1,2 and maybe even 4 and give him something more useful in return

[R34LM]

Almost everyone who has Limbo has complained about him. The thing is, do you guys think DE will do something about him? (not rhetorically, I'm really asking)

Valkyr was the exact same way when players said she couldn't fit the berserker role. After enough negative feedback, DE added a lifesteal effect to Hysteria and made it play better overall.

 

The fact that everyone that has played Limbo has complained about him is a good starting reason why he needs a rework. My guess is that the devs are aware of this and are discussing proper action now, while looking at feedback to see how to proceed.

[Ryouhi]

Valkyr was the exact same way when players said she couldn't fit the berserker role. After enough negative feedback, DE added a lifesteal effect to Hysteria and made it play better overall.

 

The fact that everyone that has played Limbo has complained about him is a good starting reason why he needs a rework. My guess is that the devs are aware of this and are discussing proper action now, while looking at feedback to see how to proceed.

With Valkyr people complained about how her health got whittled down no matter what due to the low shields and needs some form of recovery.

People wanted only to give her some form to replenish HP.

 

With Limbo however, people complain about pretty much everything.

From design to pretty much all of his skills, so yeah

[hijinks_the_turtle]

His abilities need to be togglable.

[LascarCapable]

His abilities need to be togglable.

 

That's what I am supporting for Cataclysm. A toggleable Cataclysm would be really nice IMO.

[DALOS]

I think the big problem with limbo is that his abilities rely on oneanother and that goes against the purpose of abilities. I don't think he needs a buff, he needs a complete over hull. 

[izzatuw]

I'm gonna test that Catacylsm idea because it seems just as good as a Frost SG to me or better if done right

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

I thought those strategies were the general idea on how to use limbo that everyone already knew. Thats how i play him but even then he is extremely subpar.

Many people don't see those general ideas unfortunately. I agree that he's definitely subpar compared to similar frames though.

[R34LM]

With Limbo however, people complain about pretty much everything.

From design to pretty much all of his skills, so yeah

Which is why I think a change will be coming for sure, and quickly.