It's Past Time De Fix Warframe's Broken Game Mechanics.

[Innocent_Flower]

So warframe at the moment is, in some regions of the world, pretty dead. In others the population has diminished. What's really happening is that we get a big boost for every update. Then after people have got the new-thing they stop playing because it doesn't "feel" like there's anything left for them to do. DE seem to know this, judging by the last two updates; Dogs and wings, in which we got gimicks to take us in for a few hours. The gameplay is clearly secondary to the rewards; and that cuts out a lot of players. 

 

 

*****- The mod system revolves around min-maxing damage. Offers very little in term of creativity.

 

*****- The variety of gameplay enemy variation brings is very little. Enemy variety should bring a lot to the table. It doesn't. 

 

***** Level scalling. Linked very closely to the min-maxing problem. You've got situations where it's impossible to kill a grunt, and you've got situations where it's impossible for the entire might of the grineer military to scratch you. 

 

**** The enemies don't change in appearance or type, only in level, on harder missions. 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/328207-so-theres-a-big-guy-in-big-armour-and-hes-pathetic-here-and-godly-there/

 

**** Things that encourage teamwork, such as friendship doors, or annoying nuisances; There's little positive things that encourage teamwork. 

 

**** Weapon ballance. Requires a single number cruncher to fix. Hasn't. This isn't a "mk-1 bo should be just as good as potatoed Bo prime." but rather "I spent just as much on X as I did on Y, but X is objectively worse"  

 

*** Parkour. 

*** Melee

*** Gear. Somewhat a teamwork issue. The vast majority of players don't bother with gear at all because it's so out of the way. Yet with some work it could fantastically Increase the depth and combinations of strategies that players could pull. 

*** Defence missions. Repetitive unchanging single tile; Yet this is a gamemode with more time played on it than almost everything else. 

*** syndicates.  Darling, syndicates could be the coolest story in the game. But they're not. They're currently a hopeless grind. We could have invasions, wars, Dynamic PVP alerts, Individual player stories with redemption,betrayal and failure , new stalkers. New factions and their soldiers to fight Etc. 

*** Low/alternate gravity gameplay. Think fighting a ship when suddenly gravity in an area goes entirely. Not just "low" but "no". 

*** RNG should be a little more player friendly. I'd gladly have prime items not be available in void for the first month of prime access if it meant the drop rates would be fair afterwards. 

 

*** The redistribution of resources. Some stuff drops too much in too many places. Others drop rarely in few places. Currently the best place to get cells is to kill the same boss repeatedly. That's not fun. On the other hand contol modules are extremely difficult to get, unless you're a void player where they're a bad joke. Oxium should drop from a few more enemies. What am I ever to use all these nanospores on? 

 

*** Making the player ship actually convenient. 

 

**/** New weapons. I think new weapons need to be added with enemies in mind. Enemies need to use this stuff. Part of the problem with enemies isn't that they need fantastic animations and new models; For the most part we could get an excellent array of enemies by just using current enemies with more engaging weapons (dodge, man). If it's for enemies; four stars. If it's just for players; little importance

 

 

 

 

* new frames. New frames should be secondary to the hundred other issues there are. We've got enough frames for the moment.  Divide that team up and put them to use where needed. 

* swimming. This is planed? Do we need it? Should certainly be secondary to parkour improvements and low/alt gravity .

Edited November 4, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[vaugahn]

Have you considered that maybe certain regions are dead for other reasons than these? Because the US regions are all thriving. It's just Oceania and Europe that are empty right now. 

 

While I agree with some of these things, it seems like attributing empty regions to the lack of them is a bit of a stretch. 

[Archistopheles]

*****- The mod system revolves around min-maxing damage. Offers very little in term of creativity.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, I'd love to hear what you think modding "creativity" would be.

[7grims]

I agree criticism to this game is good and needed.

And you have pointed out some of the biggest flaws or problems of this game, but by listing them all, and seeing them all together gives a feel you want all the game to be changed, to something else that isn't warframe.

[Davoodoo]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, I'd love to hear what you think modding "creativity" would be.

Some time ago(quite a while, i think u7) there was a nice idea of reworking mod system to change parts of a gun instead of current card type, different mods for same parts changed how gun behaved, barrel could be straight dmg buff or multishot mod which offered slightly higher dmg but at price of firing 2 shots and all advantages/disadvantages regarding that.

While it was also about progression it offered some choice in regards what mods would you like to use, for certain playstyle they were still no brainer though but at the same time they werent situational.

 

My own idea of stance mods was quite different than what we have now but i wanted them to have different stat boosts depending on equipped stance, like for that time, being forced to choose between higher atk speed or ability to attack more than 1 enemy with 1h sword(if someone doesnt remember this was quite a deal at that time), or by switching stance reworking typical spam melee into charge one and vice versa.

 

Still minmaxing but at least with some choice.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Davoodoo

[7grims]

Have you considered that maybe certain regions are dead for other reasons than these? Because the US regions are all thriving. It's just Oceania and Europe that are empty right now. 

 

While I agree with some of these things, it seems like attributing empty regions to the lack of them is a bit of a stretch. 

 

I think he is specking more then just the chat regions or matchmaking regions, those chats are dead, or look dead cause of a change DE made to the way the list is populated, which in fact gives a fake impression of being dead, and lately also makes less ppl play cause they don't see others.

[RahuHordika]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, I'd love to hear what you think modding "creativity" would be.

Personally I don't mind some flat damage increase granted by mods, but the fact that it's a required must if you want to kill things past the first two planets is what makes the system feel kinda limited

[Basilisk1991]

I do agree that the mod system could use a bit of sprucing up and rebalancing, especially when it comes to weapons, I would like to see them possibly squish down the ranking of some of the base damage damage mods. I would also like to see them put out more enemy types to help out some of the blander factions like Corpus and Infested. Melee is still getting the occasional bone, like the new aerial attacks they just got, I would like to see more stuff in that vein coming out.

[(PSN)Strifedecer]

I agree with every issue brought up here. Most topics simply scream about bugs, but this actually addresses the core problem of Warframe...it's begun to lack flavour.

[Selpar]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, I'd love to hear what you think modding "creativity" would be.

I'd like to see fun mods like ricocheting rounds.

[Archistopheles]

Great stuff. I wasn't trying to debate anyone's opinion with my statement, I just like to see all the cool ideas the community has on the concept of "mod creativity."

[cman9898]

I agree with ya brah... I actually left the game for a while because of all the issues and lack of story... I came back recently cuz of the wings and some of my friends started to play so I was gauna join em...
These are some of the biiiig issues.... I disagree with a few of them but yeah I think overall you hit the nail on the head.

[Innocent_Flower]

Mod creativity?

 

- Fun stuff like "richocete rounds" or "slow" or "reduce accuracy" or "extra damage to heavy enemies" or "hard to block" or "knock enemies away" 

- Updated elements system. With elements being more than "slap as many on as you can" or "choose the best damage type for the enemy you're fighting" 

- More control on clip size/ reload. 

- different kinds of +damage/Multishot mods with each having penalties/being weaker due to dual stats. 

 

 

Also, Not a huge issue but event mods should be out by now, at least for tethra and BG

[koolen]

Have you considered that maybe certain regions are dead for other reasons than these? Because the US regions are all thriving. It's just Oceania and Europe that are empty right now. 

 

 

I'm european, and I can agree that i'm leaving this game after 1.5 year because I'm bored of waiting fixes that never come, and when they come DE just ignore the speciality of the weapon and buff it like if it was a normal gun ( yeah sniper, it's you)

Do you rememeber guys since how many time dmg 2.0 is implented ? I don't, but I know that since damage 2.0, status builds ( they were THE thing I was waiting for balance the alldps builds) are ineffective/useless because De don't care, and mods are still a 15% ( just tell me jow they can take that time to fix a mod when they fix something more difficult in 1 day)

I'm not leaving becaus the game mechanics are boring, I find them really interesting, I'm quiting because DE care about shiny useless things (kubrows) that you can found in every game; and don't care of the mechanics that make the game unique ( mods, some weapons...)

exemple ? the miter : it was 3 blades during a little time, it was funny as hell with heavy caliber, and a good buff for a crap weapon.

results: De nerfed it, 1 blade only, a little dmg buff, not fun anymore, back to crap weapons box.

DE don't understand his game, you can see clearly it when you're watching how bad the weapon tiering and balance is done

They don't lack creativity, they just don't know how to implent it in WF because they don't know how ths game is played

 

sorry for the bad english, it's not my naturla language, feel free to help me correcting my mistakes ^^

Edited November 4, 2014 by koolen

[Sixty5]

You have a lot to say about what is wrong and even give a reason in a couple of cases.

However, you're not offering any suggestions on how to fix these things.

Its easy to say, "Fix Rng because grind is bad" but really all that is is whining.

You mention weapon and enemy scaling as a problem.

Sure you could remove all the direct damage mods and have lancers be the same gimpy weaklings throughout the entire game, but how does that increase build variety?

If I didn't need serration, I wouldn't use that extra slot for something like eagle eye or ammo drum, I'd stick another elemental in.

The mod system is all about beefing up your damage. Its why enemies scale up, so that when you run a high level mission you don't have to waste your time ripping up tissue paper

I could go on and on, but I won't.

[Innocent_Flower]

You have a lot to say about what is wrong and even give a reason in a couple of cases.

However, you're not offering any suggestions on how to fix these things.

Its easy to say, "Fix Rng because grind is bad" but really all that is is whining.

You mention weapon and enemy scaling as a problem.

Sure you could remove all the direct damage mods and have lancers be the same gimpy weaklings throughout the entire game, but how does that increase build variety?

If I didn't need serration, I wouldn't use that extra slot for something like eagle eye or ammo drum, I'd stick another elemental in.

The mod system is all about beefing up your damage. Its why enemies scale up, so that when you run a high level mission you don't have to waste your time ripping up tissue paper

I could go on and on, but I won't.

You won't, because you can't. This whole argument you got here is based on little individual things without seeing them all as a whole. 

 

1: didn't say "remove direct damage mods" 

2: There's a link to the thread on how lancers can remain tough if a light enemy replaced them for low levels. 

3: If players aren't almost forced to min-max because of the crazy level scalling, variety increases.

4: did you miss the part about about a rework of elements?

5: and it's rather uninteresting that way, isn't it?  

Edited November 4, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Selpar]

5: and it's rather uninteresting that way, isn't it?  

Starting a numbered point with the word "and" is bad form. Keep in mind that the number will be read, so in this case it reads:

"Five, and it's rather uninteresting that way, isn't it?" Which sounds terrible, and makes no sense.

[fatpig84]

Honestly I don't think it will work at all.

Right now a lot of my weapons (nukor/marelok for example) are running nearly pure status.

 

If you remove base damage mods, I still will throw on more damage mods on them.

For example right now I am using Frostbite. Suddenly my pistol doesn't need Hornet Strike and deal as much damage as before, I will put in Ice Storm which increases my burst and sustained DPS.

 

So what does your proposal serve ?

People will still min max to their best ability.

 

Even if MS has an actual downside of using 2/3 ammo per activation, people will just use more ammo restores.

And keep their existing damage. Or worse, making Nekros even more mandatory for most missions.

 

Things won't change, people will still min max or find work arounds. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by fatpig84

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, I'd love to hear what you think modding "creativity" would be.

 

I made a post about this a while ago, but creativity to me would be putting more emphasis on qualitative mods versus quantitative mods. Quantitative mods are the ones we use now: the Serrations and Vitalities. They just take a basic stat and boost/change numbers on it.

 

Qualitative mods, on the other hand, are mods that are about more than changing numbers: mods that change the way our frames and weapons work. Mods like Heavy Impact, Retribution, and Shield Flux are examples of mods that fundamentally change the game because they don't change stats; they add features to our frames that we didn't have before.

 

The problem is that with the way scaling and mods work now, why put Shield Flux on when we could have Vitality or Redirection? Realistically one of those two is required on most frames at higher levels.

 

And the issues with Warframe mods pale in comparison to the weapon ones. It's all about damage all the time, and there are too many DPS increasing mods with huge boosts. I counted three mods (before U15) in the Rifle category that were qualitative, and they were Charged and Prime Chamber (which on snipers are really more quantitative than qualitative, and are worthless on other weapons) and Thunderbolt. We need more weapon mods that change things about them besides the stats.

 

At the risk of seeming to be doing some shameless plugging (maybe I am, but the thread's been dead for at least a month) this is the original post:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/312112-the-best-designed-mods-in-warframe-we-need-more-like-this/

[dashashou]

as DE - Reb said - "We turn on the gas hard to fix everything and anything we can. An exhaustive audit of Update 1 thru 15.0.9 notes would likely reveal the ratio of fixes/changes vastly outnumbers additions. But, that doesn't really matter if the stuff we're adding creates more bugs, etc. There is no silver bullet answer/solution to this right now that I can offer other than we're doing everything we can to fix/test Warframe, and you're probably right that the balance between add vs. fix needs to be leveled out. " 

 

but there is a silver bullet - a bullet called coregameplay  fixes , what we are asking for the status to change the  whole  leaving the old weapons/ underpowered staying  underpowered with  only a few exceptions  breaking that rule .  The making defense /interception additive  huge core fix

 

and i would be lying if i said i wasn't excited about  the whole  " were going to buff heavy weapon promised tomorrow "  - is   a good step but it's a crawl instead of a jump (" if it actually happens/ actually a fix  "; the worst is wiser self speaking there ) 

 

 Long ignored issues need more attention