Good Game Design Unexpected Effect On Lore.

[(PSN)Folkeye]

More characters to mess with in terms of lore is always better to me. I prefer the poly.

 

Be it mono or poly it doesn't matter. When I play, whaterver Tenno is in play, it's their time and story. I switch frames. It's another Tenno, their story. No relation to the first, no warframe stored in the closet. Doesn't break any lore for me to have one Tenno/personality in whatever form and one warframe at a time. They are who they are. The shared arsenal is a convenience to the player.

 

I still like the idea of a messed up humanoid in there who is dependent on their frame for survival.

Edited November 5, 2014 by (PS4)Folkeye

[sp33chle55]

Did i miss something? Earlier in this thread there was a word about changing limbos quest line to say something other and steve was called a source for that. But there was no evidence provided. Where did he mention such a thing or is this another misinterpretation like taking vor literally?

[SilentMobius]

Did i miss something? Earlier in this thread there was a word about changing limbos quest line to say something other and steve was called a source for that. But there was no evidence provided. Where did he mention such a thing or is this another misinterpretation like taking vor literally?

It was my question in the Reddit AMA.Steve simply said that the limbo line might be edited for clarity, however he wasn't clear if it would be edited to make it more obvious that it was or wasn't breaking the 4th wall

[Hircine21]

To give some different insight, I see it as a Mono-Poly Tenno theory. Every male Tenno can wear any frame that is male, and vice-versa for female Tenno. Thus, if you, being a guy, want to play as a female frame, that just means you're controlling a female Tenno.

This lets us be unique, but don the frame we choose to wear at a moments notice (In this case, when we are in the ship)

Since Steve said the "Brain and Spine that gets shoved into a frame isn't a million miles from the correct answer" then it leads me to believe (Since like someone above stated, "We're an evolved strain of the Technocyte Virus") The frames act more like a SYMBIOTE than anything else.

 

 

Edit: Upon writing this, I noticed that the symbiote theory doesn't make sense if we're just multiple tenno. Although it would make more sense if the frames are detachable symbiotes that are not bonded to their original hosts. This makes it more plausible and lets the frames be referred to as "suites."

 

Now, I assume, the frames were molded by their first wearer, going by Excalibur's Codex Entry, and Tenno being the Offspring (If we reproduce at all) of the original "Void Walkers" (The Tenno who were sent into the void because of their affliction, the Evolved Technocyte Strain) are able to simply wear the frame since it already has the powers bonded to it. We are just the conduite, the key to making frames so deadly, since they wouldn't be able to do anything without a Tenno. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by Hircine21

[sp33chle55]

Ah, found it. Hmmm... Well then. Lets see what will happen. But if they are going to edit those lines they should change mirages too. And the message we got from lotus where she said we mastered different frames.

There would be so much 4th wall breaking you could think its deadpool time. I think its just people refusing to accept that its simply one tenno per account.

[Mak_Gohae]

The whole energy business could be like Wonder Man from Marvel comics. He is made up of Ionic energy but he can have a solid form. Being made up of energy doesn't mean you are floating around like some ghost.

 

And the one or many tenno theory is really a different argument from finding out how tenno wear frames.

Cause whether you think it's one thing wearing a lot of suits or you have a team of things, that is not going to change the answer of how tenno wear the frames.

 

If a tenno can get into any suit it doesnt mean that in your ship you cant have more than one. It just means that you use your....imagination, imaginaaaaation! ImaginAAAAAAATION! To have 1 to 2, 3,4, hek, one tenno per frame.  I could have story where it's a tenno boyfriend and girlfriend team that go out and save the universe with the power of love! The guy tenno wears all the girl frames and the girl tenno wears all guy frames. That's a little fun thing they like to do.

 

So in conclusion............finding out how Tennos wear frames should NOT affect your personal stories.

Well, unless DE lays the bat down and it's all like, NO! NO! NOOOOO!!

Which i dont think they will do because these people are the masters of vague.

[SilentMobius]

Ah, found it. Hmmm... Well then. Lets see what will happen. But if they are going to edit those lines they should change mirages too. And the message we got from lotus where she said we mastered different frames.

There would be so much 4th wall breaking you could think its deadpool time. I think its just people refusing to accept that its simply one tenno per account.

As I said I personally thing it may be simply edited to make it clear it isn't breaking the 4th wall. No reason to assume a content style change yet.

[PookieNumnums]

I reject the one tenno many frames because ember was still a child post being subjected to the void and not some clump of goo, energy vortex, or stand alone cns. 

 

i brought this up to point out we as a community are trying to give background in lore to things that came about as simple technical decisions on how players get to experience their accounts. also in the picture of the liset, i think the scale is off as you can see it suposited into the backside of the ship. notice the bunnyear thrusters. 

[sp33chle55]

As I said I personally thing it may be simply edited to make it clear it isn't breaking the 4th wall. No reason to assume a content style change yet.

Yeah, lets see where it takes us. Im kind of fed up with people still try harding to defend poly tenno per account, it just doesnt make sense anymore. Especially if we get to meet each other at the hubs. There are 20 different tenno all by the name of sp33chle55...? Well... Doesnt make too much sense for me. I prefer being one entity.

But to each its own. Huh?

[Shehriazad]

Im certain that we aren't physical beings...and to the question how we bleed...."we" don't...our suits do. Our suits aren't exactly made out of normal metal...

By the looks of it our suits are bioengineering. If you look at the Salad V youtube clip you see him cutting open one suit...nothing physical inside...but the suit is too thick to allow a normal sized human to reside in there. Also seeing how thick the warframes are...if there is a weapon that can cut through a warframe SO deep that a body would start bleeding...the weapons would easily dismember us...our limbs would go flying everywhere.
It is simply the suit bleeding from being cut.

Also he tried to cut open a Mag the same way without trying to remove a body beforehand. 

I'm still convinced that we are just a "Ghost in the Shell" We could also just be a brain connected to the Frame...which would be the ONLY logical way to support a multi Tenno theory and give us a unique personality on each.

But Limbo kind of busts that...his head is too small for a human brain since he can take off half of his "head"


But in the end my idea is that we are lacking an actual body and the Warframes are bioengineered suits that lack A: A free will or B: A brain alltogether...and thus we get a vessel.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Shehriazad

[Phatose]

Maybe it's a bit of both.  Perhaps exposure to the void impresses a link between all who are Tenno-fied, and the process itself is enough grant one Tenno access to the mind's of other Tenno.  You get changed by the void, and you get linked not only to the void, but to everyone else who is linked to the void in that fashion.  Would explain why you never need specialized training to use a new frame's powers - you're quite literally pulling it from the mind of the original Tenno.

 

Or perhaps the frames themselves are partially organic and contain ghosts of the original wearers or the like.  Guess we'll find out sooner or later.

[Hypernaut1]

Maybe it's a bit of both.  Perhaps exposure to the void impresses a link between all who are Tenno-fied, and the process itself is enough grant one Tenno access to the mind's of other Tenno.  You get changed by the void, and you get linked not only to the void, but to everyone else who is linked to the void in that fashion.  Would explain why you never need specialized training to use a new frame's powers - you're quite literally pulling it from the mind of the original Tenno.

 

Or perhaps the frames themselves are partially organic and contain ghosts of the original wearers or the like.  Guess we'll find out sooner or later.

...........ooooooooooooooor its one tenno putting on different suits. Such a simple explanation that is supported in game.

[RahuHordika]

Yeah, lets see where it takes us. Im kind of fed up with people still try harding to defend poly tenno per account, it just doesnt make sense anymore. Especially if we get to meet each other at the hubs. There are 20 different tenno all by the name of sp33chle55...? Well... Doesnt make too much sense for me. I prefer being one entity.

But to each its own. Huh?

Or it could just be a mechanic people are simply looking too deeply into. I am kind of fed up too with people trying to force their preferences on others so really it's up to what happens next, if DE ever chooses a 'side'.

But again, personally, keeping it unrevealed it's probably the best way to go.

[Phatose]

...........ooooooooooooooor its one tenno putting on different suits. Such a simple explanation that is supported in game.

 

Possibly, but certainly not without it's significant problems.  Like why the same Tenno has more health when he's in one suit then another.  Or why that Tenno grows breasts in some suits and not in others.  Ninja-cross dressers is more then a little odd.  Especially since no Tenno actually have breasts, or they wouldn't fit into the male versions of a frame.  Or frames all have individual propotions, some of them very very odd - why have one suit with giant thighs when we're all so thin we can fit into the Nekros skeleton suit? 

 

Many Tenno, one suite each has issues.  One Tenno, Many suits also has plenty of big problems.  I significant doubt it's going to be anywhere near as simple as a wardrobe change.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Phatose

[(PSN)Folkeye]

Yeah, lets see where it takes us. Im kind of fed up with people still try harding to defend poly tenno per account, it just doesnt make sense anymore. Especially if we get to meet each other at the hubs. There are 20 different tenno all by the name of sp33chle55...? Well... Doesnt make too much sense for me. I prefer being one entity.

But to each its own. Huh?

 

Could say the same with Destiny. I have multiple characters sadly named 'Folkeye' since they didn't deem them important enough to sport a real name. Yet, they're  individuals who share a locker.

 

Warframe is OK here too. For sake of clarity, simplicity and ease of transition.

 

To be 1000% honest. I'd rather not know who our individual Tenno are. Just keep that in the dark, let us enjoy our offerings to the fullest. You can share lore on the Tenno origins and how the whole Tenno came to be, but leave the current group up in the air. We can fill in gaps the way we want and not have our experience dampened by something that isn't as interesting as we imagine.

 

 

Possibly, but certainly not without it's significant problems.  Like why the same Tenno has more health when he's in one suit then another.  Or why that Tenno grows breasts in some suits and not in others.  Ninja-cross dressers is more then a little odd.  Especially since no Tenno actually have breasts, or they wouldn't fit into the male versions of a frame.  Or frames all have individual propotions, some of them very very odd - why have one suit with giant thighs when we're all so thin we can fit into the Nekros skeleton suit? 

 

Many Tenno, one suite each has issues.  One Tenno, Many suits also has plenty of big problems.  I significant doubt it's going to be anywhere near as simple as a wardrobe change.

 

 

Well,when we rescue a Tenno Operative.... is that not a Tenno, minus a frame? Is that not a very male or very female being in that skin tight suit? If so, they at least have genders. But even those mostly 'idea' shapes aren't diverse enough to squish into a small space. But it does go to show there is genders, no reason why they aren't as diverse in their size as humans are now. Hence one of them per suit of choice.

Edited November 5, 2014 by (PS4)Folkeye

[RahuHordika]

Could say the same with Destiny. I have multiple characters sadly named 'Folkeye' since they didn't deem them important enough to sport a real name. Yet, they're individuals who share a locker.

Warframe is OK here too. For sake of clarity, simplicity and ease of transition.

To be 1000% honest. I'd rather not know who our individual Tenno are. Just keep that in the dark, let us enjoy our offerings to the fullest. You can share lore on the Tenno origins and how the whole Tenno came to be, but leave the current group up in the air. We can fill in gaps the way we want and not have our experience dampened by something that isn't as interesting as we imagine.

This is precisely what I've been meaning to get across. Maybe something things are there just for the sake of gameplay, not meant to be questioned, but that doesn't mean they can't.

The true nature of the Tenno remaining unknown is what opens up creative potential for the community and allows everyone to choose their backstories. As I've said before people have created their own headcannons and invested in them, to suddenly pick a 'side' of this debate or to reveal anything about the tenno's physique and such would upset a lot of people and water down the experience, no matter which way you go.

Backgrounds, culture and stuff like that, it's perfectly fine for me to know, it does help to flesh out what is a Tenno with official material without stepping into the very unstable territory that is this topic of discussion. Like Silver said earlier: Headcannon is best cannon; and it should remain that way, personally.

Edited November 5, 2014 by RahuStalker

[Phatose]

Well,when we rescue an Tenno Operative.... is that not a Tenno, minus a frame? Is that not a very male or very female being in that skin tight suit? If so, they at least have genders. But even those mostly 'idea' shapes aren't diverse enough to squish into a small space. But it does go to show there is genders, no reason why they aren't as diverse in their size as humans are now. Hence one of them per suit of choice.

 

I'm not even sure those are Tenno in rescue.  Changed them to Red Veil in rescue 2.0, didn't they? 

[RahuHordika]

I'm not even sure those are Tenno in rescue.  Changed them to Red Veil in rescue 2.0, didn't they?

Nope, Red Veil were present in the event to introduce rescue 2.0, however although it was basically the same model with a syandana tackled on it had diferences from the current guys, which are the same they have always been.

Who or what they are now, it's never really explained to us.

[sp33chle55]

Except that the multiple tenno theory per account conflicts with current quest lore and gameplay mechanics which could easily been coded in different ways.

The energy tenno theory gets debunked by vor and his crew being able to examine tenno corpses for research purposes.

Or we have learned to be energy or matter at will, but we certainly seem to need a body. And visiting almost any codex entry we 100% sure had a body.

Rescue targets are high ranked human operatives. As lotus is telling us.

The only tenno we see and rescue are in the pods.

Edited November 5, 2014 by sp33chle55

[Phatose]

Nope, Red Veil were present in the event to introduce rescue 2.0, however although it was basically the same model with a syandana tackled on it had diferences from the current guys, which are the same they have always been.

Who or what they are now, it's never really explained to us.

 

So, we can't even be sure they're actually Tenno, not just colonists helping us out. 

[(PSN)Folkeye]

Except that the multiple tenno theory per account conflicts with current quest lore and gameplay mechanics which could easily been coded in different ways.

The energy tenno theory gets debunked by vor and his crew being able to examine tenno corpses for research purposes.

Or we have learned to be energy or matter at will, but we certainly seem to need a body. And visiting almost any codex entry we 100% sure had a body.

Rescue targets are high ranked human operatives. As lotus is telling us.

The only tenno we see and rescue are in the pods.

 

Why would there be conflict of any sort? Just because there isn't a save file for a specific character (Skyrim) doesn't mean there can't be more than one you have access to if you want to enjoy the poly OR mono Tenno thing. Again, mainly just loose mechanics for the ease of gameplay and simplicity. If you enjoy one per multiple frames, it works fine that way. If you like the poly Tenno, works the same in terms of what we imagine. Both can fit. Doesn't matter what is 'cannon' neither break any lore. Just a little imagination and preference from the player.

 

In the pods, they look very much like the humans we rescue. In terms of shape/default garb. So who knows.

 

Though a shape changing mutant like Mystique (who has a base natural form and can look like whoever she wants) wouldn't be all that bad. That also fits. Humanoid, powerful, can put on different clothing, yet go back to them self in the evening. They're versatile and are still a male or female at their natural level. This would also still leave it open for us to decide what our actual Tenno looks like at heart.

Edited November 5, 2014 by (PS4)Folkeye

[creeperZface]

 The Tenno are most likely different individuals and DE didnt really anticipate our need to have lore for every single thing in game and logical reasoning behind it. Thus, We are just playing the different characters, and its not some single entity being transferred between the empty frames.

 

This is all wild speculation but w/e. What do you think? Are we thinking too far into it? 

nope.

 

well kind of yes. every frame is a tool that can be inhabited by a tenno to bend thier powers. in the limbo quest ordis sais the previous limbo inhabiter screwed up a rift walk and ended up dead. it also makes more sence in how in the mirage quest you read somthing off the inside of her hemet. there are multiple tenno though, so clans can exist and so its atually worth fighting the formorians.

[creeperZface]

Like why the same Tenno has more health when he's in one suit then another.  Or why that Tenno grows breasts in some suits and not in others

 

i have solutions to both problems

1 health is basicly armour. in the typhus warframe idea he has armour which can be chipped off and destroyed. that is what warframe armour is. really outside of the frame you have 0.1 hp.

 

2. tenno are genderless, but want to be like other races, so they have big brests and buts. or (im looking at rihno) a very well placed spike around the crotch area.

[sp33chle55]

No it would conflict with mirages, limbos quest, partly with kubrow quest/interaction, having one liset with all the same decorations and a message received from the lotus, telling you as the tenno she knows that you have mastered different frames. It was the anniversary message but it could have also been written in a totally different way and im almost sure de knew what they were going for at that point.

So i see enough conflicts.

The fact about gender differences between suits and its wearer is the most hated one by poly tenno arguers and as de also developed dark sector which had a girl wearing a manly suit i can assure you de isnt that narrow minded like some of us.

But maybe all those evidences supporting the mono tenno theory are just not admitted in your court.

Edited November 5, 2014 by sp33chle55

[NevanChambers]

No it would conflict with mirages, limbos quest, partly with kubrow quest/interaction, having one liset with all the same decorations and a message received from the lotus, telling you as the tenno she knows that you have mastered different frames. It was the anniversary message but it could have also been written in a totally different way and im almost sure de knew what they were going for at that point.

So i see enough conflicts.

The fact about gender differences between suits and its wearer is the most hated one by poly tenno arguers and as de also developed dark sector which had a girl wearing a manly suit i can assure you de isnt that narrow minded like some of us.

But maybe all those evidences supporting the mono tenno theory are just not admitted in your court.

What about ember primes lore? The Tenno in question wasn't wearing a frame and yet generated fire. It certainly seems to imply that while the shape of a power (world on fire, fireball, etc.) is directed by the frame it's nature is not. Is this not enough evidence to create a reasonable doubt as to the certainty of the mono Tenno theory? Why do "new" (we are all really from around the orokin era) Tenno not work the same as the original Tenno? We've been around for thousands of years yes but we weren't evolving or changing for most of that, we were frozen. The fact is that currently both interpretations are reasonable. If you remove game mechanics which may just be mechanics and nothing more and there really isn't a stronger case one way or the other. I believe poly-Tenno because I dislike mono. I'm willing to change my tune when the evidence stacks up to my satisfaction but it hasn't yet, either way I wish they'd get on with it so we could get to more interesting topics past basic physiological function.

However I don't think we are ever going to get a satisfactory answer. It's likely the new rhino prime stuff will be just as open to interpretation as everything else. Even if we do the debate still won't end just like those that still deny dark sector doesn't have anything to do with warframe, or that it's the "original concept" (seriously go watch the trailer again then compare to protoarmor not original concept) Supremely frustrating.