Viver: How Syndicate Reputation Nerfed Warframes And Viver Had Almost Nothing To Do With It

[Cradicias]

Because of stupid syndicates Mag lost her end t4s potential.

Excalibur became straight up useless, 1st De made a trade off by nerfing Radial Blind and buffing Javelin so that people don't get upset about Radial Blind nerf. Now they completely nerfed both of his abilities.

This is outrageous.

 

Making a power have Line of Sight =/= Useless.

 

That power will still kill things. However, it is now no longer BROKEN in being able to hit people through walls. It's less powerful, but now it's FAIR. Now they just need to get around to all the other frames and make em LoS as well.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Haldos
Cleaning.

[xkillo32]

Do people not remember that DE was talking about changing LOS issues weeks ago...

BEFORE Update 15 had even dropped. Love or hate the changes but they likely had nothing to do with Viver.

LOL

then why didn't they do the same thing with saryn, banshee, loki, or any other frames?

[Sarmon]

Making a power have Line of Sight =/= Useless.

 

That power will still kill things. However, it is now no longer BROKEN in being able to hit people through walls. It's less powerful, but now it's FAIR. Now they just need to get around to all the other frames and make em LoS as well.

 

Broken? Getting other frames to use LoS? LoS addition makes abilities way more nerfed than you think.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Haldos
Cleaning.

[CaptainJohnson]

Oh, no, I meant the way they were PLAYING the Interception was the exploit. Maybe people aren't aware of how they were farming it. They weren't capturing points (as intended), and instead just killing enemies to grind out rep. So, yes, Interception needed the changes. The Warframes weren't "nerfed" in the traditional sense. They were brought to where they should be, Line of Sight makes sense for the powers involved. It makes sense for all powers, really.

 

Yes, because magnetism is stopped by a couple walls. It's fair to say LoS makes sense on some abilities, but some don't make any sense at all.

 

I don't mind some of the Interception changes but no, you are completely wrong. These 'frames were nerfed, and there is no getting around that. None of them were even remotely overpowered. If they'd instead changed it to LoS and made them more viable otherwise, that would be fair. What they did instead was a straight and definitive nerf. There's no two ways around it.

[.-Satan-.]

Trinity is still one of the most powerful frames out there. What frames were trash, exactly? Excal is kinda trash, cause, you know, it's a Starter. As is Mag, again, a Starter... So, yeah, what's your complaint exactly?

Besides the fact that many players actually managed to make those "starter" frames viable for t4? DE hit the panic button with no thought whatsoever and instead of making a few simple changes to a single node, they decided to nerf abilities for doing what they're designed to do on one map when they performed as expected when originally designed on others. Besides, I highly doubt that any of the DE staff is happily willing to legitimately put in the hours needed to max out even two syndicates without the vaunted boosters that some people can't afford, especially for the mediocre-at-best rewards.

[Cradicias]

They're making a slow circle around on frames. The way people were using THESE particular frames to exploit a faulty game mechanic caused them to be brought back in line sooner than others. Guaranteed, gonna be seeing a lot more frames changed to LoS. If you're complaining now, best to quit so people who appreciate the game and have over 2000 hours put into it can enjoy it without hearing constant whining when stuff gets fixed. The only thing you should be complaining about are bugs and new content that isn't working/is boring. So, Reputation gain being slow? Be my guest, I'll be right there with you on that one. These fixes though? Needed and welcomed.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Cradicias

[Cradicias]

If you don't agree then make a separate thread about it instead being a d*bag and linking offensive video link and swearing at people.

Also if you think the update is "fair" then clearly you haven't played game long enough to know there are other frames that don't have line of sight nerfs

 

So funny that a PS4 player said anything about time played XD

[R34LM]

They're making a slow circle around on frames. The way people were using THESE particular frames to exploit a faulty game mechanic caused them to be brought back in line sooner than others. Guaranteed, gonna be seeing a lot more frames changed to LoS. If you're complaining now, best to quit so people who appreciate the game and have over 2000 hours put into it can enjoy it without hearing constant whining when stuff gets fixed. The only thing you should be complaining about are bugs and new content that isn't working/is boring. So, Reputation gain being slow? Be my guest, I'll be right there with you on that one. These fixes though? Needed and welcomed.

So you are praising the rather pathetic changes to the frames? These changes were not needed nor welcomed. If they were, we wouldn't be seeing a wall of RIP threads. Open your eyes.

 

Secondly, what missions do you play? Because I can tell you right now that LOS is a hassle when you have to huddle behind cover most of the time (Ext, Capture, Spy, Hijack, Survival, anything that doesn't use the open defense maps). If you are stuck in endless defense with wide open spaces, of course you wouldn't notice.

 

I never used the frames in question, nor did I over farm Viver, but I can't let you say that these changes were "needed and welcomed" because of a loophole in the grind wall. What is needed is a plug in the loophole, not a change to those going through it.

Edited November 13, 2014 by R34LM

[(PSN)iBoiz]

So funny that a PS4 player said anything about time played XD

Oh so since I'm a ps4 player it makes me less knowledgeable than you? Get over yourself, just because you are a founder doesn't make you any more better than me. 

Edited November 13, 2014 by (PS4)iBoiz

[LukeAura]

They're making a slow circle around on frames. The way people were using THESE particular frames to exploit a faulty game mechanic caused them to be brought back in line sooner than others. 

So you admit the game mechanic was the problem but still agree to these nerfs? 

They just buffed Radial Javelin to not be limitted by a LoS to the enemies then they turn around and undo it, that doesn't concern you? 

Maybe they did need these changes, but doing them in place of solving the actual problems in the system is not an answer. 

Edited November 13, 2014 by LukeAura

[Cradicias]

So you are praising the rather pathetic changes to the frames? These changes were not needed nor welcomed. If they were, we wouldn't be seeing a wall of RIP threads. Open your eyes.

 

Secondly, what missions do you play? Because I can tell you right now that LOS is a hassle when you have to huddle behind cover most of the time (Ext, Capture, Spy, Hijack, Survival, anything that doesn't use the open defense maps). If you are stuck in endless defense with wide open spaces, of course you wouldn't notice.

 

I never used the frames in question, nor did I over farm Viver, but I can't let you say that these changes were "needed and welcomed" because of a loophole in the grind wall. What is needed is a plug in the loophole, not a change to those going through it.

 

Sure we would. These forums are NOTORIOUS for the far too vocal people that complain about ANYTHING that makes something they use less powerful than it was before. I play any and all missions, I've ran them all and continue to do so. Also, I've never ran into a situation where LoS would have made me worse off. Why? Because I use powers STRATEGICALLY. Instead of mashing that 4 key like most of the people complaining about these changes do.  Also, the changes DID fix the loophole on Viver. The loophole was that they could literally sit at a point, spam 4, and never run out of energy and never complete the mission, thus exploiting the faulty game mechanics. Those have now been fixed to prevent people from not PLAYING THE GAME. When the point of a mission is to capture points and you're not capturing points, you are doing something wrong. Again, welcomed and needed changes that unfortunately the vocal minority will scream about for days to come.

[Scryed]

Making a power have Line of Sight =/= Useless. 

 

That power will still kill things. However, it is now no longer BROKEN in being able to hit people through walls. It's less powerful, but now it's FAIR. Now they just need to get around to all the other frames and make em LoS as well.

Says the limbo......seriously we are muthafudgin space ninjas with DBZ powers like goku and now all of a sudden you want to put realism in a game with LOS?

 

Whatever you are smoking its some good ish because it took 2 excals and a mag to wreck those mobs, not 1 effin frame.

[Cradicias]

So you admit the game mechanic was the problem but still agree to these nerfs? 

They just buffed Radial Javelin to not be limitted by a LoS to the enemies then they turn around and undo it, that doesn't concern you? 

Maybe they did need these changes, but doing them in place of solving the actual problems in the system is not an answer. 

 

Incorrect, they changed Radial Javelin so the Javelins spawn AT the enemies, not removed LoS. Read patch notes more carefully. This prevented them from dodging the Javelins cause they spawned at the player previously.

[Cradicias]

Says the limbo......seriously we are muthafudgin space ninjas with DBZ powers like goku and now all of a sudden you want to put realism in a game with LOS?

 

Whatever you are smoking its some good ish because it took 2 excals and a mag to wreck those mobs, not 1 effin frame.

 

Playing a Limbo somehow invalidates my point? I've played every frame to death. He's the newest and I happen to enjoy his mechanics, so, he's my main for now.We are space ninjas. Do you know what Ninjas do? Strike strategically and not nuke the crap out of everything that they can't even see. And yes, it took more than 1 frame, thus why THREE frames got nerfed and more will probably join them to prevent further craptastic lazy players.

[LukeAura]

Incorrect, they changed Radial Javelin so the Javelins spawn AT the enemies, not removed LoS. Read patch notes more carefully. This prevented them from dodging the Javelins cause they spawned at the player previously.

I do read patch notes. I am just speaking realistically while you are taking things literally to the point of missing the truth. 

They just changed it so that enemies that weren't behind cover could be hit by radial blind, now they've taken that away, even though Radial Javelin is still a lacklustre ultimate. 

[Cradicias]

Oh so since I'm a ps4 player it makes me less knowledgeable than you? Get over yourself, just because you are a founder doesn't make you any more better than me. 

 

No, it just makes ti funny you said anything about my time played, when PS4 has only had the game a few months, when PC has had it for a LOT longer.

[Cradicias]

I do read patch notes. I am just speaking realistically while you are taking things literally to the point of missing the truth. 

They just changed it so that enemies that weren't behind cover could be hit by radial blind, now they've taken that away, even though Radial Javelin is still a lacklustre ultimate. 

 

I never said Radial Javelin isn't lackluster. But, it isn't useless like people are making it out to be and exaggerating their issues. The Radial Blind change they did a while back was accidental, it wasn't refined, they even said it got in there by accident. Then they fixed it, made it work as intended. Note that word, "intended." Cause, really, in the end, doesn't matter if you guys don't like it, it matters if that's what DE intended. So, either get used to it and adjust accordingly, or, as a consumer with freedom of choice, leave and find your fun elsewhere if it's too game breaking for you.

[R34LM]

Sure we would. These forums are NOTORIOUS for the far too vocal people that complain about ANYTHING that makes something they use less powerful than it was before. I play any and all missions, I've ran them all and continue to do so. Also, I've never ran into a situation where LoS would have made me worse off. Why? Because I use powers STRATEGICALLY. Instead of mashing that 4 key like most of the people complaining about these changes do.  Also, the changes DID fix the loophole on Viver. The loophole was that they could literally sit at a point, spam 4, and never run out of energy and never complete the mission, thus exploiting the faulty game mechanics. Those have now been fixed to prevent people from not PLAYING THE GAME. When the point of a mission is to capture points and you're not capturing points, you are doing something wrong. Again, welcomed and needed changes that unfortunately the vocal minority will scream about for days to come.

They didn't fix the loophole, because Ash and Saryn can still do the job. Just tried.

 

You yourself said "faulty game mechanics", so why not fix those? Not easy, but much more desirable.

 

So you have played the other missions; were the changes needed there?

 

You're really going to question how I want to enjoy myself in this game? Is there a way I have to play it? This game isn't my profession.

 

Not capturing points, yea, because the points have a code-lock to keep others from hacking in. In Interception's case, the best defense is the offense.

 

I'm just going to say that the argument between us will stay at an impasse. I'll see gaps in your statement and you'll see gaps in mine. I'll stand that nerfing warframes is a lazy way to fix a larger issue. Also, the vocal minority isn't always whining. I've read plenty of threads with solid reasoning.

[RealmDestroyer]

 

>saying git gud and shoving it in everyone's ears.

Look who's being the child.

Edited November 13, 2014 by RealmDestroyer

[Landwalrus]

Trinity is still one of the most powerful frames out there. What frames were trash, exactly? Excal is kinda trash, cause, you know, it's a Starter. As is Mag, again, a Starter... So, yeah, what's your complaint exactly?

Making the posterchild of your game to be complete junk is perhaps not your best plan.

Secondly, starter frames you can grind for throughout other parts of the game.

Silliness to justify it being junk just because it is a starter frame.

It is in the shop, you can buy it with plat, too.

[LukeAura]

I never said Radial Javelin isn't lackluster. But, it isn't useless like people are making it out to be and exaggerating their issues. The Radial Blind change they did a while back was accidental, it wasn't refined, they even said it got in there by accident. Then they fixed it, made it work as intended. Note that word, "intended." Cause, really, in the end, doesn't matter if you guys don't like it, it matters if that's what DE intended. So, either get used to it and adjust accordingly, or, as a consumer with freedom of choice, leave and find your fun elsewhere if it's too game breaking for you.

Their intentions can be wrong and unhealthy. We might as well all quit the forums if we are not here to help them steer the game in the right direction. 

And why did they not nerf Rhino Stomp? Same range, same ability to bypass LoS, can be modded in the exact same way as to one shot everything within its range, its also got a handy CC power for whatever survives that they don't take nodes. So why Radial Javelin? Because it was the one people were using, it did not matter if it deserved it or not, it was what was being used. Their intention was wrong to their action of nerfing it.

They have been wrong, and admitted to it before.

Edited November 13, 2014 by LukeAura

[Cradicias]

Their intentions can be wrong and unhealthy. We might as well all quit the forums if we are not here to help them steer the game in the right direction. 

And why did they not nerf Rhino Stomp? Same range, same ability to bypass LoS, can be modded in the exact same way as to one shot everything within its range, its also got a handy CC power for whatever survives that they don't take nodes. So why Radial Javelin? Because it was the one people were using, it did not matter if it deserved it or not, it was what was being used. Their intention was wrong to their action of nerfing it.

They have been wrong, and admitted to it before.

 

Gonna reiterate, SLOW CIRCLE AROUND THE FRAMES. These three got targeted because they were the preferred. If people keep trying to exploit the lack of LoS on powers, they will get to those soon enough, I bet.

 

Edit: By preferred, I mean people were EXCLUSIVELY looking for these frames to purposefully exploit the game.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Cradicias

[Cradicias]

>saying git gud and shoving it in everyone's ears.

Look who's being the child.

 

I said nothing of the sort. I said you have two choices at this point, adjust or decide adjusting isn't what you wanna do and leave. Cause in the end, it's DE's game and they get to choose how it works. Don't you put words in my mouth, young man!

[LukeAura]

Gonna reiterate, SLOW CIRCLE AROUND THE FRAMES. These three got targeted because they were the preferred. If people keep trying to exploit the lack of LoS on powers, they will get to those soon enough, I bet.

 

Edit: By preferred, I mean people were EXCLUSIVELY looking for these frames to purposefully exploit the game.

They're not going to nerf every frame with an ult that ignores LoS just to squash this problem, not after buffing several of them in the past, without realizing how much folly there is in doing so. Doing so will cause a storm of anger just like it did when they had fudged the drop rate numbers way back a year ago. Lack of LoS does not guarantee imbalance. 

You're suggesting they kill off most of the playerbase, for the sake of preserving their idea of balance, which is wrong any ways. 

Not to mention their intentions and reasons are still wrong. 

Edited November 13, 2014 by LukeAura

[Cradicias]

Making the posterchild of your game to be complete junk is perhaps not your best plan.

Secondly, starter frames you can grind for throughout other parts of the game.

Silliness to justify it being junk just because it is a starter frame.

It is in the shop, you can buy it with plat, too.

 

It's not really a justification to say they're junk cause they're starters. It's really a sort of game mechanic to encourage you to play the game to get new frames or (since they wanna make money) BUY a new one. It's just a fact of the free to play market. Yeah, you can make em work for late game, and I applaud those who do. I can guarantee you, this doesn't make them any worse at end game in itself. Just takes adjustment on your parts. Can't be lazy and hide in cover, gotta find right times to use powers (always a good thing to prevent 4 spammers, in my opinion).