Viver: How Syndicate Reputation Nerfed Warframes And Viver Had Almost Nothing To Do With It

[Sarmon]

NOTE: I'm not going to comment on how terrible the LoS changes will be at all. I'll comment on the fact that they were unreasonable and not needed in the first place.

 

Reputation is introduced and the gain is painfully slow. Reasonable for a new player, but infuriatingly boring for a veteran. What do veterans do? Find the most efficient way of getting reputation and thus the viver farm was born.

 

People noticed how efficient Viver was and [for whatever reason] complained about this, and [for whatever reason] DE listened to them instead of doing anything about the root of the issue: Syndicate reputation gain.

 

Viver had nothing to do with this. It was efficiency of farming.

 

So DE nerfed some warframes and made points not possible to be neutral. Not sure if these changes are very major or not as I have not tried them yet.

 

So what exactly happens next? We get no more Viver farms? Probably, yes. But what else? Someone finding another efficient way of farming reputation.

 

DE introduces something new? Someone will find an efficient way of farming it. So, just because someone finds a very efficient and easy way of getting things, we have to have our gear nerfed in a game with infinite level of enemies?

 

This is the message I'm getting from what DE is saying, right now. Syndicates will just be shoved aside for some people and they'll tell their friends how boring gaining reputation for them is and Warframe gets even more bad reputation in addition to it's already bad reputation due to RNG.

 

I'm not calling for the changes Rebecca talked about to be reverted. I'm simply using logic and reason to express my point of view on this whole situation and hopefully make DE think and read through more than just one complaint thread and make changes according to it. [because that's exactly how at least I see this whole situation]

 

It's pretty late and I'm pretty tired when I'm posting this, so there may be a mistake or a flaw here and there but I think I managed to get my whole point across in a simple way.

 

Edit #1: Just checked the changes to abilities. They didn't affect as many warframes as I thought they would. Either way they were not needed just because a single complaint over one node's farming efficiency.

 

Edit #2: Here's a strawpoll that someone has made about this whole issue in another thread http://strawpoll.me/2981456 [VYR3 linked this in this thread]

Edited November 13, 2014 by Sarmon

[Netheroc]

So much yes. This is unacceptable.

[Maou]

Excal and mag got *sort of nerf* cuz of the exploits. . meeh

[Skaleek]

I'm really upset about these LoS changes as well, I think it was a very lazy way to fix Viver. Mag P, Excal, and Trinity did not need to be nerfed like this to obliterate Viver. I think 99% of the game's population would've preffered you just remove interception as a mode before destroying these frames.

[Jin_Kazama]

Its not even DE.

Its the abnormally huge amount of people that have been complaining about Viver.

if noone said anything it would have been left alone, but this has literally been spoken about none stop for weeks

[Reidmaster]

Wait, they actually nerfed fames?!?

 

-Edit-

Edited November 13, 2014 by Reidmaster

[Ronyn]

Do people not remember that DE was talking about changing LOS issues weeks ago...

BEFORE Update 15 had even dropped. Love or hate the changes but they likely had nothing to do with Viver.

[kazeyama]

I'm giving it a day or two until someone finds the next best thing to farm rep. The pluto mission is pretty open people may just go back there to deal with LOS issues. Then im going to farm it all day even though I didn't farm rep on Viver. I guess the community has to kill the game until the entire game is nerfed or until they actually fix the broken rep grind instead of treating a symptom of a problem that won't do any good in the long run. 

[shut]

I think the bigger issue here is that DE attempted to fix Viver by nerfing the capabilities of the most popular frames in every other non-Viver-related situation.

 

You'd think that after the "All you did was make it harder for non-abusers to play the game" fiasco from last week they'd have taken a hint. I had high hopes for this update, but it's been a while since I've been this disappointed.

[Halser]

I guess we should just stop playing the game, since finding anything that is useful or reduces the unholy grind means that whatever frames are efficient will be nerfed to death.

 

 

Because of a single node, we got the mod drop change, interception was changed to be all but impossible to beat without a full squad, and mag, trinity and excal were nerfed to oblivion.

 

Three frames that were never really said to be OP in any way. Nerfed again, because someone found a use for them. If you hate the fact that people found a shortcut to the grind, delete the shortcut, not the tools people used to get to it.

 

Myself, I went to Viver three or four times in the past month. Didn't use it much. However, I did use mag and trinity. Sucks to be me I guess.

[--MZez--]

Rip nerframes

[Cradicias]

What I find funny is people are complaining about an EXPLOIT BEING REMOVED. That means people were playing the game in a way it was NOT MEANT TO BE PLAYED. So, yes, the changes needed to be made, now, they need to fix Reputation gain. Two separate problems.

 

Edit: Also, I personally think all powers should be LoS. Makes use of powers more strategic instead of spamtastic.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Cradicias

[Cheridan]

What a short-sighted and hamfisted change.

 

Three frames hit hard with the nerf hammer, because a COORDINATED team with specific builds using ENDGAME 8-10 rank corrupted mods could kill enemies too well.

 

This is the only non-event mission in the game that required or rewarded such teamwork, short of "Lets get to wave 100 because we can" endless defense missions and the like.

 

The problem wasn't those frames. I'm sure right now, people are experimenting with using max power/duration/range Embers and Volts instead to kill enemies on Viver. The problem is that Warframe is incredibly easy, easy enough that players could kill hundreds of pathetic fodder enemies per minute with absolutely no challenge. It's not going to end until enemies become a threat.

[Elvang]

What I find funny is people are complaining about an EXPLOIT BEING REMOVED. That means people were playing the game in a way it was NOT MEANT TO BE PLAYED. So, yes, the changes needed to be made, now, they need to fix Reputation gain. Two separate problems.

The abilities weren't exploits. Hell, seeing as how they aren't even touching the interception spawn rates, apparently those aren't bugged either. Does absolutely nothing to the cause of all the complaints: people running viver to avoid excessive syndicate grind. Everyone is now just looking for alternate frames to run the same mission, because its completely missed the mark.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Elvang

[Cradicias]

The abilities weren't exploits. Hell, seeing as how they aren't even touching the interception spawn rates, apparently those aren't bugged either.

Oh, no, I meant the way they were PLAYING the Interception was the exploit. Maybe people aren't aware of how they were farming it. They weren't capturing points (as intended), and instead just killing enemies to grind out rep. So, yes, Interception needed the changes. The Warframes weren't "nerfed" in the traditional sense. They were brought to where they should be, Line of Sight makes sense for the powers involved. It makes sense for all powers, really.

[Noble_Cactus]

 

Edit: Also, I personally think all powers should be LoS. Makes use of powers more strategic instead of spamtastic.

 

While I would normally agree with you, I'm not sure I can back you on this statement today. Radial Javelin had a nice advantage over Blind because it ignored LoS. Now it's yet again an inferior Blind because both stun are affected by LoS, yet Javelin costs more energy and causes a shorter stun.

 

I personally think that Radial Javelin needs a complete rework anyway, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

–

 

In any case, the main issue is that DE should actually give players more reasons to play the game than grind if they're going to make the grind harder and duller, because grind is all Warframe has.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[RealmDestroyer]

Oh, no, I meant the way they were PLAYING the Interception was the exploit. Maybe people aren't aware of how they were farming it. They weren't capturing points (as intended), and instead just killing enemies to grind out rep. So, yes, Interception needed the changes. The Warframes weren't "nerfed" in the traditional sense. They were brought to where they should be, Line of Sight makes sense for the powers involved. It makes sense for all powers, really.

You don't understand.

[Lost_Cartographer]

DE can see there may be a problem when people complain.

 

DE nerfed Viver because they themselves already agreed the rep gain from Viver was too fast.  In contrast, you'll notice despite all the cries to nerf the Boltor Prime, DE hasn't lifted a finger.  Coincidentally, if the Boltor Prime were why people were gaining so much rep so fast, it would get nerfed.  Funny how quick a developer can be to balance something when it has a negative effect on THEIR plan and expectations.

 

Basically, while players can complain for nerfs or buffs all they want, DE is pretty selective over what they do nerf or buff.  It's just this time the cries for nerf and DE's own game plan for reputation farming coincided.  Case in point: DE doesn't want us maxing out a rank within a few minutes to a little over an hour.  Syndicates were meant to be a background thing, obviously.  It's the only way to realistically approach a lengthy grind.  The methods of farming rep aren't even the issue really, just the capability as to how fast.  They don't want to hard cap us, but at the same time, they don't want to let us run rampant either.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Littleman88

[Elvang]

DE can see there may be a problem when people complain.

 

DE nerfed Viver because they themselves already agreed the rep gain from Viver was too fast.  In contrast, you'll notice despite all the cries to nerf the Boltor Prime, DE hasn't lifted a finger.

Its not a direct nerf to Viver though. Its still the best spot for rep, as the spawns were completely untouched. Its a direct nerf to a handful of frames that were seeing renewed use in a niche setting.

 

 

Oh, no, I meant the way they were PLAYING the Interception was the exploit. Maybe people aren't aware of how they were farming it. They weren't capturing points (as intended), and instead just killing enemies to grind out rep. So, yes, Interception needed the changes. The Warframes weren't "nerfed" in the traditional sense. They were brought to where they should be, Line of Sight makes sense for the powers involved. It makes sense for all powers, really.

 

Hell, the point cap change doesn't change anything for half the Viver farmers anyhow, as most groups were running "Cap A/D, let them cap C/B" to begin with. Which is still possible, only now we don't lose 10% of the match waiting on them to cap C/B, as they start capped.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Elvang

[Landwalrus]

Excal and mag got *sort of nerf* cuz of the exploits. . meeh

"Exploits"

They've also gloriously trashed frames otherwise practically useless to begin with.

GGDE.

[RealmDestroyer]

Edit: And yeah, I'm actually pretty &!$$ed at this update, because I really, really want to be able to use my Excalibur Prime and not be an impediment in my Cell. I really thought that Excal would be getting boosts to make him a bit more worthy of equipping so that people wouldn't be irritated at me for bringing him into missions. But nope, let's just beat him into the ground with the nerf bat. Worse than every other Frame that does what he does in every way.

 

Excalibur / Excalibur Prime is my main.

I am sorely upset.

[Cradicias]

You don't understand.

 

Yes, I don't understand a farming method I've seen used >.> Christ, these children...

[Cradicias]

"Exploits"

They've also gloriously trashed frames otherwise practically useless to begin with.

GGDE.

 

Trinity is still one of the most powerful frames out there. What frames were trash, exactly? Excal is kinda trash, cause, you know, it's a Starter. As is Mag, again, a Starter... So, yeah, what's your complaint exactly?

[vaelamin]

DE can see there may be a problem when people complain.

 

DE nerfed Viver because they themselves already agreed the rep gain from Viver was too fast.  In contrast, you'll notice despite all the cries to nerf the Boltor Prime, DE hasn't lifted a finger.  Coincidentally, if the Boltor Prime were why people were gaining so much rep so fast, it would get nerfed.  Funny how quick a developer can be to balance something when it has a negative effect on THEIR plan and expectations.

 

Basically, while players can complain for nerfs or buffs all they want, DE is pretty selective over what they do nerf or buff.  It's just this time the cries for nerf and DE's own game plan for reputation farming coincided.  Case in point: DE doesn't want us maxing out a rank within a few minutes to a little over an hour.  Syndicates were meant to be a background thing, obviously.  It's the only way to realistically approach a lengthy grind.  The methods of farming rep aren't even the issue really, just the capability as to how fast.  They don't want to hard cap us, but at the same time, they don't want to let us run rampant either.

Damn so Nekros will never get a buff:(

[(PSN)iBoiz]

Because of stupid syndicates Mag lost her end t4s potential.

Excalibur became straight up useless, 1st De made a trade off by nerfing Radial Blind and buffing Javelin so that people don't get upset about Radial Blind nerf. Now they completely nerfed both of his abilities.

This is outrageous. I was waiting a long time to try new Javelin buff but because of this stupid update ps4 will be getting all nerfed Excalibur.

Edited November 13, 2014 by (PS4)iBoiz