Braton Prime Got Buff, What About Vandal?

[T8-TR]

There's literally no way of arguing this with you. You'll rehash the same statements stubbornly and vice versa, so here's my closing statement:

 

By making the Braton Vandal a skin, you're hurting no one (except for you, apparently). Actually, I'm sure a lot of people will be happy, since they get to use their exclusive skin on a gun that's actually viable for late-game conten, rather than having the Vandal sit around in their inventory, gathering space ninja Liset dust.

 

By keeping the Braton Vandal and friends in the game as weapons/asking for a buff for them, you risk unbalancing the game. Yes, it's just a "maybe," but it's another thing DE might have to worry about with their grocery list of balance issues.

 

Also, comparing an Ember to an Excalibur is a lot different than comparing a Braton Vandal to a Braton Prime. For one, they're both Bratons, which share similar characteristics. Ember/Excal? Not so much. Oh and you saying "for now you are talking about balancing weapon that is balanced" renders this threat moot. If you think it is already balanced, why buff and risk unbalancing it? :|

[SIDESTRE4M]

Just asking: What is the difference between a skin for Braton Prime and a buffed Braton Vandal?

 

Just curious. There are so many weapons that come out regulary, that ONE more or less doesn't make any significant difference for mastery rank. It's a mood point, created by envious people.

 

I don't have it. I'd like to have it, but I'd like to have many things I can't get. So if it gets buffed but wouldn't be stronger than Braton Prime, who would really care? Seriously. Grant people some fun.

Edited December 12, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[T8-TR]

Just asking: What is the difference between a skin for Braton Prime and a buffed Braton Vandal?

 

It's unnecessary. We've already got two variants of the Braton that fit in perfectly (three if you count the MK1); a weak one for beginners and a stronger one for use later into the player's career. Making the Vandal into a skin would not only prevent it from ever making any of the Bratons obsolete (or other guns, in the case that it does), but it would enable people who have it and wish to show it off the ability to do so. Why have another gun on the gunchart to keep balanced when it's not necessary, anyway? Just take it off, make it a cosmetic, and bam, problem solved. People aching to show off their badge of 2 year honour can do so by slapping it on a Braton P (trust me, when people see "Braton Prime" under your name and not an Orokin gun, they'd notice, assuming they cared) and DE doesn't ever have to worry about it. God knows that they've got plenty to worry about in terms of balancing the game, as is.

 

TL;DR: It's not only effective for us, but the Devs get an easy pass by ridding themselves of a bunch of weapons they might have to patch or buff or nerf, etc, etc. And as things are right now, they could probably use a bit of that extra breathing room.

[Braken]

Ember and Excalibur are different Frames. Braton Vandal and Braton Prime are different weapons. If DE will make Braton Vandal OP then you can take your pitchfork, for now you are talking about balancing weapon that is balanced :|

 

 

Srsly? You are Founder you should know how exclusives work, Brandal is already buffed (I was asking for buff when Braton Prime got buffed but Brandal not) its almost that good as Braton Prime. I guess you don't want Skana Prime or Lato Prime be turned into skins just because someone may make both of them OP

 

And yes Rebecca said that Braton and Lato Vandal are CB exclusive here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/38144-may-1st-hot-feedback-topics/ (back then Braton and Lato was the only Vandal weapons)

Ahem... "(and even then, I think that's unfair, since we've got more MR xp than anyone else... Once Focus gets implemented... Those Founders who are still playing will have an un-obtainable advantage over newer players.)"

 

Nice job cutting out that part...

[Tyrian3k]

Making them skins for the respective Prime weapon wouldn't be all that bad. In the end you'd get a Braton Vandal that has the firepower of a Braton Prime and wouldn't have to worry about it being inferior to it any more. The problem arises when we apply that to weapons that have no prime variant like the Strun or the Gorgon. Giving those the stats of the regular weapons would be a nerf of weapons that would be unjustified. A Solution would be to give the regular version the stats of the current Wraith or Vandal version and make the skin applicable for the Primes and the regular versions.

[matrixEXO]

Where did I asked about Skana and Lato Prime buff? Any way, I don't have a problem with Skana and Lato Prime being usefull. Lato Prime, Skana Prime, Lato Vandal and Braton Vandal are exclusive weapons and all of those should be useful, and shouldn't be changed into skins just because someone may buff these weapons

Exclusive weapons are based to be slightly better than their original, but not to compete with other counterparts that are obtainable by everyone else.

 

Regarding your question, it's practically the same thing as they are both exclusives. So, if you want buffs on that, then people will start to demand buffs on every other exclusive weapons. So, short answer is still no. Long answer is that no one even wants to see an exclusive weapon dwarf the original by a long shot just to compete with a Prime that's obtainable by everyone. That includes an owner of the Grandmaster pack, which is me.

 

If you want to bring it around as a weapon rather than a skin, then you just need to remember that you aren't carrying a 10-ton nuclear weapon but just a small upgrade to what is and always will be a minor upgrade to a starter weapon.

Edited December 12, 2014 by matrixEXO

[lightini]

i agree with matrix, and i salute you for your humble state of mind.

 

Founders and old players tend to stick to their old weapons, which i can understand, we loved thoses weapons, kept them with us long enough, investd in those. but look at bigger pictures, the game is evolving, new weapons come in, new mechanics get implemented. weapon augment mods will stack in time, and clear some dust of old weapons. i can agree the topic about the skana mod working for the prime counter part (the end result was not changing much), it doesn't hurt anyone, but a buff on a weapon exclusive just for you guys? why?

 

One way to please everyone, may be, mark my words, may be a weapon augment mod that affect some, or all, braton family.

 

I find those kind of comments everywhere on the forum, founders and grandmaster packs always wanting to show supremacy of their advantages all along the game.

 

Which is fine, yes you helped the game to become what is is today, i thank you for this. but isn't it time to let go? we newer players are also helping the game, and you want to rub in the face of everyone your advantages till the end of the game? that's selfish, and sad, you think all the players that are not founders and grandmasters are not worthy of being able to be given privileges.

[markus230]

It's unnecessary. We've already got two variants of the Braton that fit in perfectly (three if you count the MK1); a weak one for beginners and a stronger one for use later into the player's career. Making the Vandal into a skin would not only prevent it from ever making any of the Bratons obsolete (or other guns, in the case that it does), but it would enable people who have it and wish to show it off the ability to do so. Why have another gun on the gunchart to keep balanced when it's not necessary, anyway? Just take it off, make it a cosmetic, and bam, problem solved. People aching to show off their badge of 2 year honour can do so by slapping it on a Braton P (trust me, when people see "Braton Prime" under your name and not an Orokin gun, they'd notice, assuming they cared) and DE doesn't ever have to worry about it. God knows that they've got plenty to worry about in terms of balancing the game, as is.

 

TL;DR: It's not only effective for us, but the Devs get an easy pass by ridding themselves of a bunch of weapons they might have to patch or buff or nerf, etc, etc. And as things are right now, they could probably use a bit of that extra breathing room.

The problem is not that Braton Vandal would me a Skin, the problem is that Braton Vandal would be only exlusive weapon that become Skin, and thats the problem. 3k Mastery Points are not a big deal.

 

 

Ahem... "(and even then, I think that's unfair, since we've got more MR xp than anyone else... Once Focus gets implemented... Those Founders who are still playing will have an un-obtainable advantage over newer players.)"

 

Nice job cutting out that part...

I don't think that 3k mastery points will be game changing, if you want Braton Vandal to become a skin, fine, but do it with all exclusive weapons, but this is impossible, for example what would you do with Snipetron Vandal?

[lightini]

let's get something in the way?

 

Let's suppose we grant you the buff you wanted? what of it?

Tell me how many players would benefit from it? compared to all that will not benefit from it?

 

If you want that buff that badly, the only way to get it is that we, the people that doesn't have it, helped the one who have it. You said it earlier, 90% of players are not aware of vandal existence.

 

So the real question is, why should we help you get the buff? how will that help us? Is it fair you are the only one to gain something from it? is it fair that we newcomers see the gap widing between older and newer players?

 

You keep saying the braton vandal got worse earlier. is it true? did it get nerfed? i thought it just stood where it was? the same as before braton prime buff?

[matrixEXO]

You keep saying the braton vandal got worse earlier. is it true? did it get nerfed? i thought it just stood where it was? the same as before braton prime buff?

Yup, it definitely did stood where it was. In fact, the only time Braton Vandal got buffed was when the base Braton got buffed. But if he were to QQ about Braton being weaker than the Prime while fully knowing that it's a starter weapon, he would most likely get shot down.

[markus230]

let's get something in the way?

 

Let's suppose we grant you the buff you wanted? what of it?

Tell me how many players would benefit from it? compared to all that will not benefit from it?

 

If you want that buff that badly, the only way to get it is that we, the people that doesn't have it, helped the one who have it. You said it earlier, 90% of players are not aware of vandal existence.

 

So the real question is, why should we help you get the buff? how will that help us? Is it fair you are the only one to gain something from it? is it fair that we newcomers see the gap widing between older and newer players?

 

You keep saying the braton vandal got worse earlier. is it true? did it get nerfed? i thought it just stood where it was? the same as before braton prime buff?

Braton Vandal is already buffed, and I dont want next buff. Once again I think playing 2 years is enough to get at least decent weapon. And how Im the only one? Do you think only i have Braton Vandal? About that gap... thats radiculous, you want me, Warframe player for 2 years be at the same lvl as the person that playing one month? People want shiny thing I know, but that doesnt mean that they should get it. Thats sounds like "I want it so give it to me", older player should have something to distinguish from new player. When I dont progresing then whats the point of playing? The more exclusives you have the more dedicated to the game you are, and thats why exclusives exist, to prove it.

 

And yes Brandal got nerfed maybe not directly but damage 2.0 made Lato Vandal and Braton Vandal useles.

[matrixEXO]

Braton Vandal is already buffed, and I dont want next buff. Once again I think playing 2 years is enough to get at least decent weapon. And how Im the only one? Do you think only i have Braton Vandal? About that gap... thats radiculous, you want me, Warframe player for 2 years be at the same lvl as the person that playing one month? People want shiny thing I know, but that doesnt mean that they should get it. Thats sounds like "I want it so give it to me", older player should have something to distinguish from new player. When I dont progresing then whats the point of playing? The more exclusives you have the more dedicated to the game you are, and thats why exclusives exist, to prove it.

So, you are saying that you want to have power advantage over other people who never played as long or who never dedicated as much time? Then you should stop playing. There is no reason for anyone to have power advantage over another in Warframe. Why so? Because all the OP weapons to date are farmable and obtainable.

 

Additionally, exclusives are based off the original and not the Prime. If you want to QQ about Braton Vandal not getting a buff, you ought to QQ about Braton (normal) not being as OP as the Soma. Try it, I dare you to.

 

If you aren't progressing, then you should start looking at bringing along another weapon. You really don't get it, do you? Every weapon in this game has a certain limitation that stops certain weapons from going to certain planets. A Lato is fine but you just can't bring it to a T4X and expect it to do as well as a Brakk does. Same as any other weapon in this game.

 

Exclusives are more of a badge to flash off than a real high-powered tank buster. Same as sigils and emblems. In fact, the only weapons these days that DE have been making variants off are the Primes. Why? Because they also know how exclusives negatively affect their game. No, it does not need a buff more than it deserves.

Edited December 12, 2014 by matrixEXO

[Edgedemon]

Just researched a bit and found that they said that they may indeed bring event weapons back at some point. (Devstream #22 about 36 min in). That was 10 months ago, though, and nothing happened on that end so far.

so it was in a dev stream that explains why i couldn't find it in the forums.

 

 

then again they are going back on their lore that nova vectis soma and tigaris are new age weapons that cant get primes

"Nova was designed by the Tenno Council"  that is pretty ambiguous, a date was never stated nor a reference point in the lore timeline, since we have never seen them in game, we can't  know if they exist currently and even if they did exit now we can't prove they didn't before the orokin fall.

 

that and all current Tenno woke up from cryo sleep, which means they were most likely active during the orokin era as such anything they make is based on orokin tech for which surely there may be pre-orokin fall examples

[Edgedemon]

 if you could use it as a skin, just stick the skin on your Braton Prime. No one in their right mind would take a normal Braton into the Void anyway, so they'd immediately recognize you as a closed beta player. Not that I think the differences aren't big enough, anyway. I think it looks plenty distinct as is. I mean, it's not Prime to Non-Prime different, but it's enough of a change to where if I took the time to look, I'd notice.

No skins for Primes is a DE policy, stupid one to be sure but they don't care

[Edgedemon]

I have seen plenty of bratons and people running MK1s for S#&$s and giggles in voids and no one ever thinks I am using the braton vandal ever not many people still know about it

i was hunting Lephanthis with a unmodded MK1 for the fun of it.

[Malikon]

This is why you dont create a topic directly about the Braton Vandal.  The same haters that have been around forever are still here, still lurking with some old names and some new names, and they will take any opportunity to raise a ruckus about this weapon moreso than any other.

 

Dont you remember what happened last time the community got into an uproar about Braton V?  Stop feeding the trolls.

[Edgedemon]

Also, do you think playing 2 years for a skin that most people dont even recognize is worth it?

you didn't get it from playing 2 years but from playing 2 years ago big difference there.

 

if it isn't worth it why do you still have yours?

[markus230]

you didn't get it from playing 2 years but from playing 2 years ago big difference there.

 

if it isn't worth it why do you still have yours?

It is worth it, after the buff it is. Some people seems to dont even read what I said

[markus230]

So, you are saying that you want to have power advantage over other people who never played as long or who never dedicated as much time? Then you should stop playing. There is no reason for anyone to have power advantage over another in Warframe. Why so? Because all the OP weapons to date are farmable and obtainable.

 

Additionally, exclusives are based off the original and not the Prime. If you want to QQ about Braton Vandal not getting a buff, you ought to QQ about Braton (normal) not being as OP as the Soma. Try it, I dare you to.

 

If you aren't progressing, then you should start looking at bringing along another weapon. You really don't get it, do you? Every weapon in this game has a certain limitation that stops certain weapons from going to certain planets. A Lato is fine but you just can't bring it to a T4X and expect it to do as well as a Brakk does. Same as any other weapon in this game.

 

Exclusives are more of a badge to flash off than a real high-powered tank buster. Same as sigils and emblems. In fact, the only weapons these days that DE have been making variants off are the Primes. Why? Because they also know how exclusives negatively affect their game. No, it does not need a buff more than it deserves.

First two points are just stupid, I dont even gonna reply to them.

 

Yes I can get Boltor Prime, why not? But MR2 Player can get Boltor Prime too so why should I play more? Thats does not make any difference if I play one year or one day.

 

And yes Exclusives are like badges. But they should be at least useful, because you can't bring 2 primary weapons. If exclusive is useless then no matter if it is badge or not I will not bring it with me because the better choice is bringing better weapon. You think Excalibur Prime negarively affect the game? I think not, because many Founders bought Founder Pack just because of this frame, and without those ppl the game would not prosper as it is now

Edited December 12, 2014 by markus230

[Edgedemon]

First two points are just stupid, I dont even gonna reply to them.

 

Yes I can get Boltor Prime, why not? But MR2 Player can get Boltor Prime too so why should I play more? Thats does not make any difference if I play one year or one day.

 

And yes Exclusives are like badges. But they should be at least useful, because you can't bring 2 primary weapons. If exclusive is useless then no matter if it is badge or not I will not bring it with me because the better choice is bringing better weapon. You think Excalibur Prime negarively affect the game? I think not, because many Founders bought Founder Pack just because of this frame, and without those ppl the game would not prosper as it is now

actually his first points made a lot of sense:

that is a modded braton not a modded braton prime.

and the only way to avoid the P2W tag is making everyone essentially play at same level.

 

you said you wont use your limited editions if they are weaker, just after claiming you are aware you can get stronger weapons.

[Tyrian3k]

Additionally, exclusives are based off the original and not the Prime. If you want to QQ about Braton Vandal not getting a buff, you ought to QQ about Braton (normal) not being as OP as the Soma. Try it, I dare you to.

 

Is that a fact? Where did DE say that? The Latron Wraith definitely is not based on the normal version of the weapon and neither was the Strun Wraith when it was released. i know that there is no Strun Prime, but the Strun Wraith was among the most powerful weapons when it was released... it was vastly superior to the normal version in every way, just like a Prime would be.

 

For the Strun Wraith people who didn't have it yelled for a nerf, since it was at the top of the line back then and after some time it was nerfed. Problem is that at that point the Soma had already appeared and given everyone a primary that is just as viable and powerful, now leaving the Strun Wraith as a mediocre piece of crap (like about all shotguns).

 

The lesson I learned from the behaviour is that an event exclusive weapon is not allowed to be strongest of its category at any point in time, not even at the point it is released.

 

My suggestion is to go the way of the Latron Wraith which is roughly equal to the Prime.

The reason it could be powerful without anyone complaining was that firstly everyone could get the Prime instead and secondly didn't stand alone at the top in the rifle category. If no Prime version exists, a Wraith/Vandal can't be made powerful without people crying about it.

[plznohurtme]

Not sure why this thread is still going on like they've done nothing.  While I'm not sure I necessarily agree with how they buffed it the Braton Vandal is relatively close to the Braton Prime now.

 

Braton Vandal:

Firing Rate 7.5 rounds/sec

Accuracy 33.3

Magazine Size 50 rounds/mag

Max Ammo 350 rounds

Reload Time 1.8s

Physical Damage 35.1

Impact 12.3

Puncture 1.8

Slash 21.0

Crit Chance 10.0%

Crit Damage 200.0%

Status Chance 10.0%

 

Braton Prime:

Firing Rate 9.6 rounds/sec

Accuracy 28.6

Magazine Size 75 rounds/mag

Max Ammo 375 rounds

Reload Time 2.2s

Physical Damage 35.0

Impact 1.75

Puncture 12.25

Slash 21.0

Crit Chance 10.0%

Crit Damage 200.0%

Status Chance 20.0%

 

Obviously the debate on whether or not the weapon should be buffed can be thrown out, and now people can discuss whether or not it was updated enough.  For me the only thing I don't particularly like is the fact that the status chance difference is a pretty big deal.  Yes max dps is still quite a bit lower, but damage per shot is the same and so I don't think people should complain about that.

[SabreUr]

Vandal buffed, locking thread.