Okay Nullifier Shields Definitely Don't Have Flat Hp

[PurpleBomber]

I've shot the shield down with my Vaykor Marelok (9 shots), and after reading some other bubble-popping accounts on the forum, I decided to see how some other things did against it. Specifically, I brought my Opticor and Brakk into a T4 Exterminate and went bubble hunting. The Brakk I figured to be pretty good against the bubble, but in testing, I noticed something odd.

 

The Brakk obviously can empty its magazine pretty quick, and since I was shooting at the broadside of a barn, I basically just let it rip into the bubble. As I reloaded, I noticed that the bubble was... still shrinking gradually, just for another half second or so. Ultimately I needed 9 shots to pop the bubble (same as the Vaykor Marelok, who would've guessed), but that gradual shrinking thing is a bit mystifying. I even wonder if there's some damage mitigation in play to let the shrinking animation play at its given speed.

 

What makes me think that, exactly? My Opticor. Fully charged that's somewhere of the ballpark of 20000 damage per shot, and I had with my Vaykor Marelok estimated the damage dealt to the popped bubble was around 30000. Logic says 2 shots to pop the bubble with full-charge Opticor shots, but nooooope. I actually do not know how many shots it takes to pop a Nullifier bubble with an Opticor, because it took too long and I died from their Lankas with innate punch-through. XD

 

Despite that I know I gave the bubble a full 5 shot magazine from my Opticor, every shot fully charged, plus a few from a second magazine post reload. I easily dealt over 100000 damage to that bubble, but I'm not sure I got it more than 2/3rds down before I died. I kinda wondered with my Brakk if there was some damage mitigation happening in relation to the shrinking animation, but I can't even rationalize what kind of math is making an Opticor so inept at popping this bubble. Whatever it is though, I can guarantee it is not HP - damage.

[vaugahn]

I was able to drop the shield in two shots with my dread.

 

Something is funky with multishot/shotgun pellets though, they don't seem to apply to the shield for some reason. 

[AsuraKyu]

Funny enough continuous beam weapons make short work of the nullifier shields. Synoid Gammacor is great if you have it try that out

[Satwo]

i actually was wondering the same thing about the opticor, since mine is a 4-star now.

 

i suspect theres a damage cap per shot that some sneaky Dev didnt put into the build notes.

[Guest]

I was able to drop the shield in two shots with my dread.

 

Something is funky with multishot/shotgun pellets though, they don't seem to apply to the shield for some reason. 

 

While I haven't yet tested the latest iteration of the Nullifiers, this has been in since they were released: the shield had an invulnerability period after being shot, which means multishot did not help against them, same with shotguns and Mirage's Hall of Mirrors, as well as very high RoF weapons. This might be what you're looking at here. I'll know more when I've tested them.

[vaugahn]

While I haven't yet tested the latest iteration of the Nullifiers, this has been in since they were released: the shield had an invulnerability period after being shot, which means multishot did not help against them, same with shotguns and Mirage's Hall of Mirrors, as well as very high RoF weapons. This might be what you're looking at here. I'll know more when I've tested them.

 

Hmm. I've got to go run some more tests then.

 

I attributed it to a problem with multishot, but that could definitely be it. 

[PurpleBomber]

Well, here's a funny one. Just to test high rate of fire, I brought my potatoed, unforma'd Akstilletos to the party. Result? They popped TWO Nullifier bubbles in one 28 shot magazine (they just happened to be standing next to each other so the bubbles were overlapping a lot). Given the above examples as to what works and what doesn't... I don't know about this one. I guess the closest comparison is the Synoid Gammacor, but my Akstilletos don't have anywhere that amount of damage.

[PookieNumnums]

dont they regen 

[Guest]

dont they regen 

 

They have a cooldown after being hit before they can regen.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

I was able to drop the shield in two shots with my dread.

 

Something is funky with multishot/shotgun pellets though, they don't seem to apply to the shield for some reason. 

I dont know what is that Nullifier level.

 

But took me 8 shots of my Dread to destroy that shield (Nullifer lv35 in EXT4).

[Yazeth]

I dont know what is that Nullifier level.

 

But took me 8 shots of my Dread to destroy that shield (Nullifer lv35 in EXT4).

 

Yep, same here, same weapon too.

 

The shields on the Nullifiers (Corrupted ones at least) are taken out by shots, not dmg.

[PurpleBomber]

Yep, same here, same weapon too.

 

The shields on the Nullifiers (Corrupted ones at least) are taken out by shots, not dmg.

 

That does seem to be the case, but there are definitely issues with things like multishot and shotgun pellets. Also it's completely contradictory to the change in the 15.7 patch notes, lol.

[Yazeth]

That does seem to be the case, but there are definitely issues with things like multishot and shotgun pellets. Also it's completely contradictory to the change in the 15.7 patch notes, lol.

 

Yep, those are the two main issues I am having with Nullifiers. I like the concept, but the execution has been poor. Hope DE gets them fixed ASAP.

[Guest]

Here are the results of my testing:

 

Mission: Themisto, Regular, Solo. All tests ran with Twin Gremlins, shooting slowly to avoid invulnerability period, with the following mod configurations:

 

1. Only maxed Quickdraw mod equipped.

Result: 24 shots to pop the bubble.

 

2. Maxed Quickdraw and rank 8 Hornet Strike.

Result: 24 shots to pop the bubble.

 

3. Maxed Quickdraw and maxed Barrel Diffusion.

Result: 24 shots to pop the bubble.

 

4. Maxed Quickdraw, maxed Barrel Diffusion, rank 8 Hornet Strike.

Result: 12 shots to pop the bubble.

 

5. Twin Gremlins, maxed Barrel Diffusion, maxed Lethal Torrent, rank 8 Hornet Strike.

Result: 10 shots to pop bubble.

 

6. Twin Gremlins, maxed Quickdraw, maxed Barrel Diffusion, maxed Lethal Torrent, rank 8 Hornet Strike, maxed Jolt, maxed Convulsion, maxed Pistol Pestilence.

Result: 5 shots to pop the bubble.

 

As you can see from the first tests, there is something weird going on. I conjecture that the shield has a minimum damage threshold, below which the "hit" counts but not the damage, that is, it would always take a maximum of 24 shots to pop the bubble. I am going to run further tests with this in mind.

 

EDIT: Ran a quick test with an unmodded AkLato, which has 12 base damage per shot as opposed to the Gremlins' 30. The bubble took exactly 24 shots to pop.

 

My preliminary conclusions are that the shield always requires a maximum of 24 shots to be destroyed, although I haven't tested higher-level Nullifiers. In other words, the shield has HP, but the damage it takes has a lower cap.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Guest

[PurpleBomber]

Here are the results of my testing:

 

Mission: Themisto, Regular, Solo. All tests ran with Twin Gremlins, shooting slowly to avoid invulnerability period, with the following mod configurations:

 

1. Only maxed Quickdraw mod equipped.

Result: 24 shots to pop the bubble.

 

2. Maxed Quickdraw and rank 8 Hornet Strike.

Result: 24 shots to pop the bubble.

 

3. Maxed Quickdraw and maxed Barrel Diffusion.

Result: 24 shots to pop the bubble.

 

4. Maxed Quickdraw, maxed Barrel Diffusion, rank 8 Hornet Strike.

Result: 12 shots to pop the bubble.

 

5. Twin Gremlins, maxed Barrel Diffusion, maxed Lethal Torrent, rank 8 Hornet Strike.

Result: 10 shots to pop bubble.

 

6. Twin Gremlins, maxed Quickdraw, maxed Barrel Diffusion, maxed Lethal Torrent, rank 8 Hornet Strike, maxed Jolt, maxed Convulsion, maxed Pistol Pestilence.

Result: 5 shots to pop the bubble.

 

As you can see from the first tests, there is something weird going on. I conjecture that the shield has a minimum damage threshold, below which the "hit" counts but not the damage, that is, it would always take a maximum of 24 shots to pop the bubble. I am going to run further tests with this in mind.

 

Very interesting. Definitely supports the idea of a multishot issue, but the minimum damage threshold to count as a hit is very viable too.

 

... Really though DE, was "shoot bubble, pop bubble" too much to ask?

[Guest]

Very interesting. Definitely supports the idea of a multishot issue, but the minimum damage threshold to count as a hit is very viable too.

 

... Really though DE, was "shoot bubble, pop bubble" too much to ask?

 

Actually, tests 4 and 5 seem to indicate there's no issue when using multishot, in other words, there is no invulnerability period, but I'll have to test that with a hitscan weapon.

 

I ran another test with an unmodded Afuris, and once again it took 24 shots to pop the bubble, with a twist: the bubble shrinks gradually at a maximum speed no matter how much damage it takes, so it is possible to waste ammo if the trigger is held against it until it breaks. In other words: with a high RoF weapon, 24 shots destroy the bubble, but if you keep the trigger held until it actually breaks you'll likely waste more than 24 bullets.

 

I'll try out a Glaxion with maxed RoF now.

 

EDIT: Well the Glaxion testing was horrible. I won't run any more tests with continuous fire weapons... the damage and hit detection on those seem to be FUBAR. I got from 54 to 100 "ammo" in several consecutive tests on the same nullifier, letting the bubble regenerate fully each time. My only verdict is that using a continuous-fire weapon against these units seems like a bad idea.

 

Next, I'll try a powerful hitscan weapon with and without multishot.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Guest

[Guest]

Final testing: Strong hitscan weapon with and without multishot, to see if the shields have an immunity period after being hit. Weapon used: Marelok. Themisto, Regular, Solo.

 

1. Only Hornet Strike rank 8: 6 shots needed.

 

2. Hornet Strike rank 8 + maxed Barrel Diffusion: 6 shots needed.

 

3. Hornet Strike rank 8 + maxed Barrel Diffusion + maxed Lethal Torrent: 6 shots needed.

 

Curious enough about these results, I switched to my fully modded Grinlok and guess what, it also took 6 shots to pop the bubble. While this wasn't what I was testing for, It seems obvious that there is an upper cap on the damage the bubble can take in a single shot, too. However, I'm gonna have to reduce the damage on my Marelok to properly test multishot again.

 

4. Unmodded: 15 shots needed.

 

5. Maxed Barrel Diffusion: 7 shots needed.

 

~·~·~·~·~·~·~·~·~·~·~·~·~

 

I believe these are all the tests needed. My conclusions are, based exclusively on the Nullifiers found in Themisto, Jupiter:

 

 

- The Nullifier shields take a maximum of 24 and a minimum of 6 shots to break, meaning they are HP-based, but there are both upper and lower caps to the damage they can take. The minimum damage seems to be around 100, and the max around 2200.

 

- Shots that impact the shield in a very short time are considered a single shot, meaning that multishot doesn't help very powerful weapons to destroy the shield in less than 6 shots. However, multishot is not ignored entirely, and helps the weaker weapons to break the shield faster.

 

- The shield does not pop immediately, instead shrinks according to the damage taken, and while this shrinking is fast it is not instant. This can lead to very high RoF weapons wasting ammo on a "doomed" shield. It is therefore recommended to use controlled bursts when using full-auto weapons against these units.

[mrhat.lf]

My Flux Rifle (Potato'd and 5 Forma'd) is able to destroy their shield in about 2-4 seconds in a T4 Capture mission.

 

And the obligatory it one shot the Nullifier as soon the bubble popped.

[Adrakal]

high damage ammo eaters get it bad vs. these things, looking at Glaxion/Ampex mainly from personal experience. dps cap + continuous fire x_x

[HyokaChan]

How long would an Opticor take?

[Rydian]

How long would an Opticor take?

Tried it, also needed 6 shots it seems.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Tried it, also needed 6 shots it seems.

Even the powerfull Opticor is nothing against Nullifier.