And Now, It's Time To Buff The Glaive.

[ROSING]

Because seriously, it's damage is absolute crap. Perhaps they did that to balance it out with the fact that it can be thrown, but the issue with the glaive (and thrown melee in general) is that since they have more than one style of combat, you can either mod it specifically for one style (for throwing or regular meleeing), which basically makes the other style completely useless, or you can mod it for both, in which you have a weapon that can perform in both functions poorly. You should not have to choose between teh two, but rather be able to affect both of them equally.

Let's be real, if you want to use the Glaive as a throwing weapon, you'll want to have maybe quick return, power throw and if you really want, whirlwind. Those are two to three mod slots that on any other melee would be taken up by damage or attack speed mods, thus diminishing your glaive's power in regular melee. And even if you modded it for damage, it has basically the same amount of damage as the skana, and only slightly faster attack speed. And that's not even a fair comparison, because with crimson dervish and bright purity, the skana is a beast, and even has good end game viability.

But without enough mods to boost it's damage, the glaive by comparison has poor combat effectiveness at higher levels simply because it lacks punch.

A few suggestions:

-Easiest is just to buff it's damage.

-Capitalize on the stances tendency to have it spinning in your hand. Ramp up the speed of those spins and you would have some fairly decent DPS.

-have each swing make the blade spin, having 2-3 hits in one swing (like the fang, eqch attack has multiple hit animations)

-Adjust the utility mods (+/- bounce, punch through and flight speed) to be dual stat mods: ether just +melee damage, or release some dual stat/elemental damage mods. Kinda band-aidish, but it will get the job done. the key is having mods that will increase it's throwing utility and it's close quarters effectiveness at the same time.

-Release a syndicate specific mod to buff it's damage. Damage specifically. Either New Loka or Arbiters (pls be Loka tho ;))

The Glaive is an iconic warframe weapon. Both of it's stances (astral twilight specifically) are amazing aesthetically and functionally, but the low damage hinders it. It's time to make it seen more often as a fun, endgame viable weapon.

Edited January 25, 2015 by ROSING

[VKhaun]

inb4 Primed Pressure Point.

[MechaTails]

Normally Id say pipe down rummy, every weapon doesnt have to do a billion damage. But considering its an iconic/familiar weapon to the developers and fans of Dark Sector, go ahead and buff the S#&$ out of it, DE.

[taiiat]

howsabout something a little different than band-aids or 'm0ar deeps'.

100% Slash Effect on each hit for Thrown Melee's. (yes, Kestrel too ofc, that s... is still pretty sharp)

on throws and in hand attacks.

 

don't remove the Status Chance they have now though, just have that be a Chance for another Effect based on Damage Types as usual, in addition to a guaranteed Slash.

 

inb4 Primed Pressure Point.

:|

 

though to be fair that one seemed like the obvious first choice. 

Edited January 24, 2015 by taiiat

[Evanescent]

howsabout something a little different than band-aids or 'm0ar deeps'.

100% Slash Effect on each hit for Thrown Melee's. (yes, Kestrel too ofc, that s... is still pretty sharp)

on throws and in hand attacks.

 

don't remove the Status Chance they have now though, just have that be a Chance for another Effect based on Damage Types as usual, in addition to a guaranteed Slash.

 

:|

 

though to be fair that one seemed like the obvious first choice. 

I love this! Maybe ragdoll.knockdown on throws as well?

[VKhaun]

howsabout something a little different than band-aids or 'm0ar deeps'.

100% Slash Effect on each hit for Thrown Melee's. (yes, Kestrel too ofc, that s... is still pretty sharp)

on throws and in hand attacks.

 

Slash procs are, IIRC, something like 33% of base only? ...eh... it will niche it into a charge build and give the middle finger to anyone who uses them to throw from quick melee.

 

They have always struck me as being intended to make up for single target damage with the ability to reliably hit multiple targets through bouncing and the punch-through mod. I'd try to fix it. Make the flight better, the hitbox bigger, the retarget more reliable, the flight speed faster, etc etc. 

 

Go back and watch some Xena Warrior Princess. Try to imagine her in Trin's skirt.

[Shuuro]

*Looks at Glaive*

 

*Looks at Glaive Prime*

 

 

It astonishes me why the only change the Glaive Prime got was a slight increase in attack speed.

 

Glaive can keep it's low stats, but Glaive Prime... Come on guys. 35 attack?

 

Why?

 

It's the Primed version of the Glaive. You know. From Dark Sector? You'd think this thing would have at least some notable damage.

 

I mean. When it's stealth multiplier is only hitting 8xx damage in a Tower 1 Survival.. that's.. well.. pathetic. No other way of saying it. Pathetic.

 

It's throw attack can keep it's same power, as I can often times hit in the 20k's with it. But it's normal attack? Dear Lotus why is it so bad?

[DAFIRE]

Either New Loka or Arbiters (pls be Loka tho ;))

^

[DAFIRE]

*Looks at Glaive*

 

*Looks at Glaive Prime*

 

 

It astonishes me why the only change the Glaive Prime got was a slight increase in attack speed.

 

Glaive can keep it's low stats, but Glaive Prime... Come on guys. 35 attack?

 

Why?

 

It's the Primed version of the Glaive. You know. From Dark Sector? You'd think this thing would have at least some notable damage.

 

I mean. When it's stealth multiplier is only hitting 8xx damage in a Tower 1 Survival.. that's.. well.. pathetic. No other way of saying it. Pathetic.

 

It's throw attack can keep it's same power, as I can often times hit in the 20k's with it. But it's normal attack? Dear Lotus why is it so bad?

i remember hitting the weakspot(banshee's power) and my glaive prime did 50k dmg D:

[Eric1738]

i really enjoy the new stance astral twilight. but i think the main problem is that throwing melees are supposed to be thrown, so unless stance gives a lot of damage bonus, there is little incentive for me to utilize the stance. i'd rather throw it at distance. not to mention it's much much more easier to throw the glaive while you are not equipping it. 

[Burns2PvP]

One of these already..?

Why not complain about it before the stance was out? :| All people cry about is, "Buff this, Buff that. NONO DON'T MAKE THINGS STRONGER THAN ME, OMG WTF! NO REMOVE THIS REMOVE THAT!"

 

Its getting kind of old.. make up your minds..

[Shuuro]

i remember hitting the weakspot(banshee's power) and my glaive prime did 50k dmg D:

Right, but warframe powers bend the rules.

 

 

No really. Why mention Banshee's power? The Glaive in general is in need of a buff. Same goes for other melee types. I'm looking at you daggers.

 

One of these already..?

Why not complain about it before the stance was out? :| All people cry about is, "Buff this, Buff that. NONO DON'T MAKE THINGS STRONGER THAN ME, OMG WTF! NO REMOVE THIS REMOVE THAT!"

 

Its getting kind of old.. make up your minds..

 

It couldn't possibly be because people now have a stance to try out on the Glaive? Gleaming Talon isn't exactly something everyone has. If you have plenty of spares though, by all means, give them away.

 

At this point it feels a little mis-guided that we're being given awesome combos for a weapon that is only useful when it is NOT being used to combo, but thrown.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Shuuro

[Burns2PvP]

Right, but warframe powers bend the rules.

 

 

No really. Why mention Banshee's power? The Glaive in general is in need of a buff. Same goes for other melee types. I'm looking at you daggers.

 

 

It couldn't possibly be because people now have a stance to try out on the Glaive? Gleaming Talon isn't exactly something everyone has. If you have plenty of spares though, by all means, give them away.

 

At this point it feels a little mis-guided that we're being given awesome combos for a weapon that is only useful when it is NOT being used to combo, but thrown.

Gleaming Talons heat seeking was nothing when it came out..? I am pretty sure I very distinctly remember kids running around going, "OMG AWESOME!". :|

[Shuuro]

Gleaming Talons heat seeking was nothing when it came out..? I am pretty sure I very distinctly remember kids running around going, "OMG AWESOME!". :|

 

You and I remember Gleaming Talon very differently.

 

It was more like.

 

Why the hell is this so hard to find?

 

add in a few more colorful words in there for certain individuals.

[shut]

One of these already..?

Why not complain about it before the stance was out? 

 

Because the weapon is hardly viable in a general situation, leaving it relatively unused and forgotten? Hardly anyone gave a rat's fart about the Ballistica before DE had to release a new version in order for the playerbase to be reminded of its existence.

 

Not saying that the Glaive is nearly as bad as the Ballistica (it's certainly viable if you're good at using it, at least), but there are certainly many things that could be improved about it. Why isn't there a mod that causes the Glaive to track targets like the Deconstructor does? Why do we still have that awful half-swing before we can throw the thing in melee mode? Why is the Glaive so overall awful in close-range combat, especially for players who have "attack in the direction of the camera" disabled (for whom a third of the combos are effectively locked away and unusable)? 

 

Obviously the Glaive doesn't need to be buffed to be the be-all and end-all of the game or anything like that (it's certainly an absolute beast with Ash and Loki, who can use it as a pocket Ogris that they can't one-shot themselves with), and there are certainly many more weapons that are in greater need of a buff, but the Glaive is one of the many weapons that simply doesn't hold up in late game. We don't want it to be overpowered, but yeah, it could be better.

Edited January 24, 2015 by SortaRandom

[ROSING]

Gleaming Talons heat seeking was nothing when it came out..? I am pretty sure I very distinctly remember kids running around going, "OMG AWESOME!". :|

 

I mean, I had gleaming talon, and I recall when I was running it before I had the same problems, but to be honest, yes, I just wasn't as motivated to posting it then.

 

But I mean, I have gotten around to it. :D

[ThePresident777]

I was able to kill enemy in Overtake.  But, it was a terrible experience because I was aniamtion locked the entire time.  When I tried to defend, I was stuck in an attack animation.  When I tried to attack I was stuck moving.  When I tried to move, I was stuck in attack animation.  The animation system is not Space Ninja.  It's too slow and clunky.

 

What does this have to so with the Glaive type weapons?

 

Swing them.  They look like S#&$.  A chef chopping vegetables looks more Space Ninja than a Warframe.  The melee weapons took a major nerf with melee 2.0 because all the Swing Speeds were destroyed and Fury was beat to S#&$.  Then in update 14, weapon attacks all have different speeds.  So, a weapon will have a different speed between it's normal attack and it's spin attack.  This #*($%%@ up a lot of weapons for coptoring.  It also means that two weapons with the same listed swing speeds do not actually have the same swing speed.

 

The melee animations are tooo slooowww for such low swing speeds.  The swing speeds have to be brought back up, furry needs to be unnerfed, to avoid animation locks.

 

Oh, why not make all weapons worth using with Weapon Tier Potatoes.

Edited January 24, 2015 by ThePresident777

[taiiat]

Slash procs are, IIRC, something like 33% of base only? ...eh... it will niche it into a charge build and give the middle finger to anyone who uses them to throw from quick melee.

 

They have always struck me as being intended to make up for single target damage with the ability to reliably hit multiple targets through bouncing and the punch-through mod. I'd try to fix it. Make the flight better, the hitbox bigger, the retarget more reliable, the flight speed faster, etc etc. 

i don't think so, even if each Slash Effect is low Damage, it's 100%. attack something half a dozen times, in the time you'd have thrown it once, Et Cetera.

 

besides, we could be sneaky and have the forced Slash Effect based on total Base Damage. ;)

 

 

that's true, making bouncing more practical (i gave up on trying to trick shot with them a long time ago, especially since it doesn't reward you with bonus Damage or anything like that) sounds like a good place to start.

the Explosions are pretty effective as is, so we might be okay there. though tbh, 0.6m Punch-Through? boo. atleast make it 1.0 :(

 

-snip-

if we're going to have a contest, Weapons like Dual Ichor and Dual Zoren can get Ground Finishers (since that's totally you in a Ground Finisher) for ~20,000 more than that per blade. yes, they have two of them, dual Weapon.

 

Gleaming Talons heat seeking was nothing when it came out..? I am pretty sure I very distinctly remember kids running around going, "OMG AWESOME!". :|

it has some sort of 'Heat Seeking' in it's Animations?

i never would have noticed, i'm still using Quick Melee on all Melee Weapons, to kill Enemies faster, with less risk of death.

 

maybe someday all of that Animation Lock will be less so and therefore will be more useful in combat.

[Shuuro]

I mean, I had gleaming talon, and I recall when I was running it before I had the same problems, but to be honest, yes, I just wasn't as motivated to posting it then.

 

But I mean, I have gotten around to it. :D

 

Honestly, back then, there were so many other stance mods being used and tried out that the issue just got buried. Kind of like a lot of the melee weapons now.

 

Still looking at you daggers.

 

Because the weapon is hardly viable in a general situation, leaving it relatively unused and forgotten? Hardly anyone gave a rat's fart about the Ballistica before DE had to release a new version in order for the playerbase to be reminded of its existence.

 

Not saying that the Glaive is nearly as bad as the Ballistica (it's certainly viable if you're good at using it, at least), but there are certainly many things that could be improved about it. Why isn't there a mod that causes the Glaive to track targets like the Deconstructor does? Why do we still have that awful half-swing before we can throw the thing in melee mode? Why is the Glaive so overall awful in close-range combat, especially for players who have "attack in the direction of the camera" disabled (for whom a third of the combos are effectively locked away and unusable)? 

 

Obviously the Glaive doesn't need to be buffed to be the be-all and end-all of the game or anything like that (it's certainly an absolute beast with Ash and Loki, who can use it as a pocket Ogris that they can't one-shot themselves with), and there are certainly many more weapons that are in greater need of a buff, but the Glaive is one of the many weapons that simply doesn't hold up in late game. We don't want it to be overpowered, but yeah, it could be better.

 

This.

 

I could do with the Glaive Prime being buffed up to a reasonable "prime" damage state. I mean, hitting around 200 damage with a normal quick melee in T1S. MAN you have no idea how much of a wake up call that was, and it's not just the throwing weapons that have this problem.

 

As badass as it looks doing diving flips while throwing the Glaive. The sad reality of it is, it's just too weak to really do anything meaningful later on.

[Shuuro]

if we're going to have a contest, Weapons like Dual Ichor and Dual Zoren can get Ground Finishers (since that's totally you in a Ground Finisher) for ~20,000 more than that per blade. yes, they have two of them, dual Weapon.

 

I'm like, really trying not to sound like a jerk. But yes. I know. It's not about the damage. It was about the potraying that warframe abilities, can indeed, change everything up. It still gives no reason to have something be band-aided by a warframe ability.

 

Again, if people still don't get the point. Warframe powers break the rules. Hint hint. Stealth finishers aren't usually possible. Since you would more than often alert them by the time you knock them down.

 

 

As for the heat seeking. It has 'appeared' to me that it would sometimes attack another target after bouncing off an enemy then a wall, it would conveniently go to another target. But it felt so unreliable that I just offed it as some sort of random occurance.

 

Now, if it was hard homing and it had the chance to attack the same target over and over. I'd say nothing about the throwing weapons being too weak.

 

...

 

 

Nah. I'm lying. I'd still want melee combos to have some sort of damage so I'd have a reason to use them. I mean. Come on. Jump Flipping and throwing Glaives

[ROSING]

I was able to kill enemy in Overtake.  But, it was a terrible experience because I was aniamtion locked the entire time.  When I tried to defend, I was stuck in an attack animation.  When I tried to attack I was stuck moving.  When I tried to move, I was stuck in attack animation.  The animation system is not Space Ninja.  It's too slow and clunky.

 

What does this have to so with the Glaive type weapons?

 

Swing them.  They look like S#&$.  A chef chopping vegetables looks more Space Ninja than a Warframe.  The melee weapons took a major nerf with melee 2.0 because all the Swing Speeds were destroyed and Fury was beat to S#&$.  Then in update 14, weapon attacks all have different speeds.  So, a weapon will have a different speed between it's normal attack and it's spin attack.  This #*($%%@ up a lot of weapons for coptoring.  It also means that two weapons with the same listed swing speeds do not actually have the same swing speed.

 

The melee animations are tooo slooowww for such low swing speeds.  The swing speeds have to be brought back up, furry needs to be unnerfed, to avoid animation locks.

 

Oh, why not make all weapons worth using with Weapon Tier Potatoes.

I was getting stuck a lot too wih the animations. Most critical is when a tar moa hits you...the animation can become fatally long...

Although that's off topic.

[ThePresident777]

What I was saying is that the Glaives need to be faster.  So I'm agreeing with the OP.  They need a buff.  However, there is a larger context, a fundamental issue, so I mentioned that too because I do not want to misunderstood.

Edited January 24, 2015 by ThePresident777

[DrBorris]

CC will not fix Glaive's damage when using combos (throwing is fine as is). At some point, "moar damage" is necessary. The solution is pretty simple IMO. If you are throwing Glaive, then shouldn't it be doing the same damage as when you "throw" it? So... Whenever glaive is being thrown in the stances, its damage would be based on the charge damage. When the Glaive is being held, it will have its current damage (Glaive is supposed to suck when being held).

[Thrymm]

One of these already..?

Why not complain about it before the stance was out? :| All people cry about is, "Buff this, Buff that. NONO DON'T MAKE THINGS STRONGER THAN ME, OMG WTF! NO REMOVE THIS REMOVE THAT!"

 

Its getting kind of old.. make up your minds..

Yup, already.  Maybe ought to do a bit of forum browsing, though, unless by already you meant since 2.0 came out(and sometimes even during 1.0, Glaive wasn't all that hot stuff then either).  Folks made up their mind a long time ago.

 

Lots of good ideas in this thread, but honestly I don't think more damage is a band-aid.  The weapon is fairly strong when thrown, but going full melee mode with it means you might have to hit somebody with it sometime too, and for this it needs to be a bit more dangerous than a torn soda can.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Short reach melee weapons(when doing combos) don't have stance combos that make them viable when compared to Crimson Dervish, Cleaving Whirlwind, or Polearms/Staves.

I group Glaive weapon melee combos with Dagger, Fist, Sparring, and Claws. They should have Stance combo buffs that allow them to have damage to compete with the harder hitting more practical combos of the larger weapons.

I don't believe just throwing damage number buffs is the answer.

-for Spinning thrown Glaive type weapons, it could have the damage always applied twice (except for explosions) when either thrown during a stance combo or charge thrown.

For the attacks during a combo where the weapon is held in hand and thus suffers from short reach: Risk-Reward would be nice and I think some of those attacks should just be finisher damage on short reach weapons, ignoring armor and such. (Could be just 1 attack in the Stance combo. Trying to melee combo and hold channel to Life-strike with Glaive weapons is a good way to experience energy drain. With at least 1 of those animations dealing Armor ignore, you would have a consistent damage number and viable way to heal.

On Powerthrow, Rebound, Quick-Return, and Flight speed mods; I see inconsistency. (Power throw should allow Deconatructor to explode parts*)

Rebound/Quick-Return/Flight-speed do not seem to affect the throws performed during stance combos. (At least with Gleaming Talon (on PS4), admittedly having Bounce during the middle of performing a stance combo would be annoying, except their should be innate flight speed buff so that Rebound is basically a multi-shot on stance combos.

If Power-throw would cause explosions during stance throws - aside from high suicide it could make for deadly combos and CC.

Halikur* should do the damage shown in the UI (thrown attacks are not up to UI damage shown.) Most importantly the Homing should act more like Helios Scanner: if I aim at a target, while throwing, it should home to that target. Should that target move. (ex: Infested side-flip Leaper/Muralist Jumping Moa)

Kestrel Ragdolling when thrown should be just as satisfying when performing stance combos.

Ragdolled enemies that are thrown violently around the stage, should take way more damage then they do. (Sparring slide-kick, Crushing Ruin & Shattering Storm, Kestrel thrown (especially with Impact/Blast proc)