Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[_Chaser]

I have no issues with it personally, as you cannot kill a boss while being undetected.

well, let's just say if you encounter boss while being undetected you fight him 1v1 or atleast less enemies back him up. and after that just run like hell, hide, wait for alert cooldown countdown to over and proceed to extraction point while being undetected.

more like in assasins creed 1 or similar manner

[_Chaser]

btw we tried stealth in mp and it was quite fun, untill we got spoted. all 4 players crouching and backslashing enemies. too bad i didn't run fraps, but i hope i will be able to get into same situation again.

[Arcalane]

- alert system.

if one enemy seen me for a second, everyone else gets alerted, even tho i killed him in half of second later then i supposed to.

this is really annoying when one mistake fucks up whole my mission, may be there should be an alert cooldown

Are we talking 'all enemies are considered alert/aware', or the global alert/alarm status? Because the latter can only be triggered by enemies reaching a control console. Kill 'em all quick enough and they'll never know what hit them.

In the former case of just enemies being considered alert/aware, I find the #1 cause of adjacent rooms being alerted is gunfire. Because goddamn it is loud, yet I can charged-slash hack my way through half a dozen guy and next door won't notice if none of them get to shoot at me because I used cloaking to pull it off. I'd totally go for a suppressed pistol as a sidearm if it had similar accuracy to the Lex and that reliable one-shot-killitude if you hit weak spots.

Still, I definitely support greater rewards for being stealthy. "Not being shot at" is a dubious benefit at best, given the XP and item rewards from killing the infinite-mooks.

See, the thing is, you have to realise that the Grineer, Corpus, and probably the Infested are not as stupid as their own mooks suggest. You are a Tenno, a fearsome futuristic warrior monk. These people are not going to simply assume you're not on their ship any more simply because they don't know where you are - it just makes them scared of you. Terrified, even. Because they have no idea where you are and you could be around any corner or hiding in any shadow and ohgodyoujustjumpedoutfrombehindthatstackofboxes-- oh wait it's just Steve. Goddammit all, Steve! I nearly shotgunned/mauled/lasered/etc. you!

I guess my point is they aren't going to be satisfied that you don't pose a risk to them until you are confirmed dead. Which is an entirely reasonable response given how dangerous Tenno can be.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Arcalane

[Tetsmeha]

Just a note, using normal melee on enemies even if they're staggered or haven't shot anything yet still alerts others in the same room.

And just for idea dumping, why not make stealth a different control state for tenno? Because stealth is usually slow paced in a lot of areas, why not add sticky wall cover and corner peeking in stealth mode, and remove it when all enemies are alerted? It doesn't make normal combat slow or anything, but still makes stealth effecient.

[neKroMancer]

I'm a big fan of MGS3 :snake eater.

Stealth play is definitely harder to pull off and should offer higher reward. A few reasons.

1. You get less mods, ingredients while playing stealthily.

2. You get less kill while playing in this fashion. Weapon profression system is tied to 'kill' point thus your weapons will progress in an extremely slow place compared to normal 'shoot'em up' play.

However, the current state of the game needs a lot improvement to actually make stealth work.

1. Map - a lot more hiding place, more alternate routes through the map. Currently, there's very little hiding place and no creative way to get through the map. It's not hard, just irritating.

2. Spawn system - As OP suggested, there should be a difference between 'normal patrol' and 'alarmed security' spawn system. In 'normal patrol' - fixed amount of enemy in the map and no respawning. In alarmed state, a reinforcement will be arrived through 'wall panel' similar to moar spawning in corpus faction. However, if player can escape from the engagement and remain undetected, patrol force will be increased (well, make more sense than 'nothing to see here' or 'must be my imagination').

3. Silence weapon and backstabbing.

It's very, very interesting to stealth as a Tenno. Stealth as a space ninja seems appropriate.

[Ronyn]

Stealth play is definitely harder to pull off and should offer higher reward. A few reasons.

1. You get less mods, ingredients while playing stealthily.

2. You get less kill while playing in this fashion. Weapon profression system is tied to 'kill' point thus your weapons will progress in an extremely slow place compared to normal 'shoot'em up' play.

I agree with your thought process ovrerall

I just want to clarify something.

You are currently talking about stealth for the purpose of evasion.

In that context you are correct about getting less stuff.

However if one is using stealth for the express purpose of killing as many people as possible without them knowing you are there..

then you dont get less stuff because you are still mowing down a whole level.

I bring that up because stealth and evasion, while commonly together, are not synomous.

This is why "rewards" for stealth need to be seperated from the act of killing to actual acts of not beings een.

That is to say, if I am hiding and a guard walks by me but doesnt see me it would be good to get a little "Hidden" Xp right there.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Ronyn

[Azure_Kytia]

Stealth as a gameplay method is at present underdeveloped, but there are ways to negate that. If for example you went through a map undetected, you could be offered a random reward, such as x amount of XP towards all/specific equipment, a mod for an equipment piece, or support items.

This scenario is assuming you killed as few enemies as possible. If you killed everything, then you may be entitled to such a reward, but it's value would be lowered in comparison to making a completely pacifist run, which is harder and less rewarding stat-wise. For example, you may get 100 XP towards a specific item or all equipment if you killed everything, but if you ran through passively, you may get 1000 XP, or the possibility to snag a higher value/rarer mod than common white.

It might be nice once the alarm has been raised by a faction that you could cancel the alert by hacking their systems (or hacking a specific terminal), although make it harder than opening a door, e.g. using more hexagons, less time, limited number of attempts. The enemies would still be at a higher alert level than passively patrolling, but they wouldn't be armed and hiding in order to engage in combat. They may search areas more thoroughly, enforcing stricter care and stealthy behaviour, but that's your fault for getting caught in the first place :p

Edited January 18, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[neKroMancer]

I agree with 'hidden exp' while playing with stealth. When I used to religiously play MGS - no alarm, no kill, and finish the game within time limit was my primary objective. It was very hard but the game did give you some nice bonuses to compensate.

[Mak_Gohae]

In the original Dark Sector trailer thingy it showed that Tenno character switching his Warframe from "Combat mode" to "Stealth mode."

So i suggest this mechanic be implement in this game. While you are in stealth mode you move silently, become harder to see, and all your abilities become kill moves instead. So for Excalibur's Slash Dash you basically do the same thing and dash at one target killing him but then quickly dash back to the spot you started from to avoid detection. For Loki's Decoy he creates a copy of the enemy which becons him to his location giving you a better position for a kill, etc.

And the one thing that kills stealth missions for me is that i get spotted by people i didnt know where there, they are far off walking somewhere but since they are coming in the direction i am sneaking by i get spotted. So i suggest while on stealth mode you get 3 little camera/detection devices that you can shoot off and stick to a wall and show enemies walking by them in your radar. So you have to be smart on where to place them to give yourself the best chance. They are limited so you have to pick them back up as you move forward and if detected the enemies might detect them and destroy them.

I know there is a enemy detection mod but until if you dont get it then you gonna hava bad day sneaking. And maybe with the cameras you can get rid of that mod and add a new one or modifiy that mod to tell you the level of the thread? So for the heavy Grineers they are displayed with bigger dots or something like that.

[Decim0]

This is an awesome idea man *Thumbs Up*

[MobileSuit]

It's very easy to do stealth mission as Loki (success within first attempt with no alarm triggered http://youtu.be/LU8xF326AOk). But what the point? Less enemies killed = less mods = less profit.

Edited January 18, 2013 by MobileSuit

[_Chaser]

It's very easy to do stealth mission as Loki (success within first attempt with no alarm triggered http://youtu.be/LU8xF326AOk). But what the point? Less enemies killed = less mods = less profit.

well, your video shows only that with long enough duration of invisibility and if it doesn't tun off on attack it easily becomes OP.

anyway, here is an idea how to reward stealth runs:

if there are enemies in section then

if you pass from one section to another you recieve some xp bonus for each enemy, it may be fixed value or percentage of xp you recive for killing it.

if there is no enemies - you recieve nothing

if you completed this section already you would not recieve xp again

if you will kill enemies in already completed section you will recieve small percentage of xp you get normally, so you would not be able to farm it.

also suggestion: invisibility tuns off on attack, so you would not be able to kill all the enemies remaning invisible and it will be more like stealth tool for sneaking up if you play stealthy or deffence tool for normal runs where you will use it to escape enemies on low health.

Edited January 18, 2013 by n7snk

[MobileSuit]

also suggestion: invisibility tuns off on attack, so you would not be able to kill all the enemies remaning invisible and it will be more like stealth tool for sneaking up if you play stealthy or deffence tool for normal runs where you will use it to escape enemies on low health.

Agreed on this except melee attack while stealthed should recieve massive bonus ;)

[_Chaser]

I'm a big fan of MGS3 :snake eater.

Stealth play is definitely harder to pull off and should offer higher reward. A few reasons.

1. You get less mods, ingredients while playing stealthily.

2. You get less kill while playing in this fashion. Weapon profression system is tied to 'kill' point thus your weapons will progress in an extremely slow place compared to normal 'shoot'em up' play.

However, the current state of the game needs a lot improvement to actually make stealth work.

1. Map - a lot more hiding place, more alternate routes through the map. Currently, there's very little hiding place and no creative way to get through the map. It's not hard, just irritating.

2. Spawn system - As OP suggested, there should be a difference between 'normal patrol' and 'alarmed security' spawn system. In 'normal patrol' - fixed amount of enemy in the map and no respawning. In alarmed state, a reinforcement will be arrived through 'wall panel' similar to moar spawning in corpus faction. However, if player can escape from the engagement and remain undetected, patrol force will be increased (well, make more sense than 'nothing to see here' or 'must be my imagination').

3. Silence weapon and backstabbing.

It's very, very interesting to stealth as a Tenno. Stealth as a space ninja seems appropriate.

will add these parts as soon as i will get on pc at work, now g2g

[_Chaser]

Agreed on this except melee attack while stealthed should recieve massive bonus ;)

only if you talk about damage bonus.

[V1RTU5]

It's very easy to do stealth mission as Loki (success within first attempt with no alarm triggered http://youtu.be/LU8xF326AOk). But what the point? Less enemies killed = less mods = less profit.

thats kinda the issue with stealth atm theres no real point other than braging rights. as for the vidio i understand it was an elimination mission but you (or who ever was in that vidio) just got lucky. imo a stealth run is not alerting a single person. which in that vidio you did in fact get spoted you just happened to stop them from geting to a consol (i guess you can call that stealth)

i wouldnt mind geting a bonus for stealthing a mission within a time limit. 10 min count down shows up, once spoted it goes away. if you complete it within the limit. you get a 1k credit bonus and 3 random mods (posably higher rate of rares)

[VirtualxBucaneer]

Well, Devs need to redesign the levels and other stuff for an specific stealth quest.

[_Chaser]

thats kinda the issue with stealth atm theres no real point other than braging rights. as for the vidio i understand it was an elimination mission but you (or who ever was in that vidio) just got lucky. imo a stealth run is not alerting a single person. which in that vidio you did in fact get spoted you just happened to stop them from geting to a consol (i guess you can call that stealth)

i wouldnt mind geting a bonus for stealthing a mission within a time limit. 10 min count down shows up, once spoted it goes away. if you complete it within the limit. you get a 1k credit bonus and 3 random mods (posably higher rate of rares)

the only issue on this video is that with long enough duration of invisibility and without its turning off on attack it easily becomes overpowered.

time limit is not really good idea imo, puts alot more presure and on my part i like slow paced stealth runs.

Well, Devs need to redesign the levels and other stuff for an specific stealth quest.

yeah, it will be more then welcome, but even without redesigning but adding some of suggested features stealth will be rather possible and not only for loki but for every class.

[MobileSuit]

the only issue on this video is that with long enough duration of invisibility and without its turning off on attack it easily becomes overpowered.

time limit is not really good idea imo, puts alot more presure and on my part i like slow paced stealth runs.

As long as overload exists nothing is overpowered compared to it.

[V1RTU5]

well thats kind of the catch. you need to compleat the mission in a timly fassion but also undetected.10-15 min seems reasonable i havent realy "timed" my runs due to me just nearly having a heart attack when a baddy comes walking by and im right by the exit or obj lol.

i too tend to run my stealths more slow due to trying to compleat a mission with no kills (i know shocking) but i do think there needs to be a "push" to get players moving in stealth gaming

[_Chaser]

well thats kind of the catch. you need to compleat the mission in a timly fassion but also undetected.10-15 min seems reasonable i havent realy "timed" my runs due to me just nearly having a heart attack when a baddy comes walking by and im right by the exit or obj lol.

i too tend to run my stealths more slow due to trying to compleat a mission with no kills (i know shocking) but i do think there needs to be a "push" to get players moving in stealth gaming

let's not forget that it's hard enough to play stealthy without invisibility already, so let's not overcomplicate things

[V1RTU5]

i stealth with a rhino.... and i still wouldnt mind a lil incentive to hussle

[_Chaser]

ATTENTION

1) if enemy spoted you through the obstacles, please report so here with screenshot of location or video

2) Attention to all ASH players

Please provide data on invisibility (smoke) duration on different upgrades levels

for example:

LOKI

invisibility lv 1 = 4 sec

invisibility lv 2 = 6 sec

invisibility lv 3 = 9 sec

btw guys, stealth challenge was added!

http://youtu.be/-jXl5fGo8_8

Get 10 kills of unalerted enemies

too bad i failed, but thats a good news that this kind of challenge was added.

Edited January 18, 2013 by n7snk

[Expletive]

Hrm. We ARE super-powered space ninjas. I think we should be approaching this in a manner less like Splinter Cell or Metal Gear Solid, and more like Arkham Asylum. We already have plenty of big rooms with potential vantage points in them, it's just that most of those places require lots of time consuming platforming to get to, and even then, all the enemies can still see you.

[_Chaser]

Hrm. We ARE super-powered space ninjas. I think we should be approaching this in a manner less like Splinter Cell or Metal Gear Solid, and more like Arkham Asylum. We already have plenty of big rooms with potential vantage points in them, it's just that most of those places require lots of time consuming platforming to get to, and even then, all the enemies can still see you.

for arkham asylum aproach you will need completely redesign levels. for tenchu and mgs aproach you need only some tweaks