(PSN)Chino_Feo_1337 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Pull is awesome CC, as well as tempest barrage, shock or sonic boom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insizer Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I respect your opinion OP, but I main Volt, Shock is far from useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxbomb Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Shuriken- Haven't actually used Ash, so I can't judge this one Fireball- Actually pretty good IMO, frequently sets enemies on fire, deals reasonable damage, AoE, and if anything else feels satisfying to launch into a crowd Slash Dash- Not too terrible if you spam it, although admittedly it could benefit from some kind of stagger on hit targets, and it's damage should increase in accordance to the melee combo multiplier Freeze- This one is pretty underwhelming, even with it's AoE it feels unsatisfying to use, and the damage and proc chance aren't that great. Needs more oomph to it. Tempest Barrage- This one is so-so, it has a high tendency to knock down enemies, and the damage isn't too bad. Could still be better though, maybe even recastable several times instead of just once. Soul Punch- Still a bit underwhelming, even with the recent changes. I think what kills it for me is the incredibly anal targeting, which usually requires to stand perfectly still while spamming the 1 key and hoping the target is still aligned enough for it to work. Null Star- Pretty underwhelming. So-so damage, no CC. Could use something to make it stand out more, like some kind of elemental proc or even mild damage reduction while it's active. Smte- Very useful. Radiation procs, knockdown, seeks out multiple enemies. Not too shabby when cast once, even better when spammed. Shock- Also very useful. What it lacks in damage it makes up for by having a very potent multi-target stun for such a small cost. Unlike other #1 skills it remains highly effective at high levels where pure damage normally falls off Rhino Charge- I wouldn't mind seeing this one changed at all. It's basically an inferior Slash Dash whose only advantage is knocking enemies down, but the knockdown only seems to work half the time (very unreliable). Venom- Another so-so ability. The plus side is that if you do get a chain going, you can fill the room with Viral procs, which are extremely viable at high levels. Unfortunately it's incredibly easy to fail at starting a chain reaction, and like Soul Punch it's tricky to actually tack an enemy with it, so it doesn't always feel worth the trouble. With some QoL changes it could easily be god-tier. Well of Life- Basically useless. completely overshadowed by blessing and not very practical IMO. The only reason it sees use is the WoL/EV exploit (assuming that still works). Could definitely afford to be completely overhauled into something more useful. So with a few exceptions, I actually find #1 skills to be reasonably useful, especially for how spammable they become once you acquire energy efficiency mods. Some could be improved or even changed completely, but overall I think they are fine for how they function against non-endless content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucely Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Pull is awesome CC, as well as tempest barrage, shock or sonic boom. Sonic boom could use some work. Two things in particular: how its casting interrupts, and how it only affects enemies in LoS. Of course, I wouldn't mind more base range and physical force. As it is now, though, I just about never use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duyet Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Bruh, Shuriken is my MOST used ability on Ash. I played him for hundreds of hours, too. The damage may fall off, but I think of it as extra damage since I can cast while firing. It works great now when you have the augment and/or with power strength mods. I wouldn't mind if they added back a stagger effect that it once had. Though, I have to admit that I was very reluctant to put it on when it cost a slot. (I went for a min-max SS/BS Ash build back then.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekkou Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 The best evidence I can give is that before the removal of skill from the Mod table, people would not even equip those skills and forma the slot out. You can't be expected to cast smite or shock twenty or more times to try and take down a single target. And who in their right mind is modding their warframe to benefit these abilities? We just don't use them unless it is a very very specific situation. You're just showing how inexperienced you are, plenty of people use unranked 1st abilities just to use its utility without any mod cost. How is stunning or knocking down enemies require a very very specific situation? And basic abilities are usually very well rounded and building them will also benefits other abilities as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax_Cavalera Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Lots of people have talked about the others, so i shall confine my argument to Slash Dash and Rhino Charge. You have any idea the mobility these powers give you? Nope, because I don't build for duration on excalibur..why would you has terrible synergy. And Nope to Rhino because his movement speed is that good with arcane helm I can directional melee faster, further and more accurately than his charge..that being said I have read up the augment for it can make you invincible temporarily but have not trialed this yet. It also is not really fair to say an ability + augment are good when the ability without augment is next to useless. With augments, most first abilities are pretty good except well of life, slash dash, smite and rhino charge. I never could find a use for them... oh and Trip(mag pull) now makes this list with the nerf on pull range. Most like it as Trip.. but I preferred it as Pull so I could drag enemies off a cryopod or snatch a group of mobs off a rescue target etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangelzz Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Really the only thing you need to add to slash dash is add a 100% chance to activate a slash proc that way even though you can't kill higher lvl enemies with it, you can at least maim them and make sure they are easily to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) I basicly build my ash around the shuriken augument so that ability is kinda badly placed here.... Removing the armor is not only a brutal number on higher lvls but effectively buffs the dmg on evry enemy that use the passive meaning to this. Add poison dmg to the calc and you can go against all factions without changing the element... Shuriken also has a feature that is superior to most other, and evry other shot 1. Abilitys: shurikens don't need a set target to be activated. They seek enemys. Evry player should know the struggle...you need a lotta aiming and therefore effort to get low gain from the impact. If anything needs a change then it would be the targeting. Shurikens should not be the only ability that don't need a set target to be fired. Its just inconvinient in a fast paced game. Edited February 20, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soniti Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 So many posts pointing out the exceptions to the issue... Yes, most #1 abilities will range from useless, to bad, to extremely situational-- with maybe 2 or 3 that can still shine in a serious build.... Which means about 90% are still useless, bad, or too situational. Augments should not be mentioned, as the ability should have a purpose before augmentation. This is something I was thinking about recently, but I fully expect augments to be used as a bandaid to cure their irrelevancy-- in which case we would have to discuss the 100% elemental buff augments; their lack of ingenuity is breathtaking... sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Augments should not be mentioned, as the ability should have a purpose before augmentation. Why? They are not supposed to have that big of an impact. They are mostly small, weak attacks with low cost. Good for small enemys without loosing much energy. Auguments simply add a tactical twist. And most of them even have a 100% status chance and a somewhat usefull element. Seriously. The only thing that bothers me is the missing auto-target---on abilitys that are not supposed to have much set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasumi- Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Nothing is more useless than Null Star. Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)icysuspect Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) More than half of those turn into very useful abilities when augmented. And Well of Life is amazing when synergized with Energy Vampire correctly. I see your point, though, somewhat. I always felt like 1st abilities should always be utility-based, of some sort. Edited February 20, 2015 by (PS4)icysuspect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkyPygmy Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Pretty much all of those abilities are extremely useful. They have the flaws (like venoms hit detection) but are far from useless. Don't know what you're on OP but I would recommend getting a bit more creative, you might be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCatLad Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 They are first abilities. They aren't meant to be OMGAmazing. Just quick and cheap attack or utility abilities. Most of those listed are good for being first, quick, cheap abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eda.Mone Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Gr8 b8 m8 Really though, no abilities are useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilianJoe Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 More than half of those turn into very useful abilities when augmented. And Well of Life is amazing when synergized with Energy Vampire correctly. I see your point, though, somewhat. I always felt like 1st abilities should always be utility-based, of some sort. That's precisely the problem. If you need an augment to fix a broken or useless skill, it's a defective design. Level 1 skills become mostly forgettable at later levels because they don't scale or have little utility/cc. I'd have them do much more damage to single targets for instance. If an ultimate can easily do 1000+ damage to every enemy in a large area, a 25 energy skill should be able to do twice as much (or more) on a single target. I'talking to increase the damage dealt about 2x~5x the current values. It still doesn't scale, but the skills become useful for longer, and become a good part of the player's arsenal to deal with single high-threat targets. And/or, add some utility/cc to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)icysuspect Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Yeah, I can see your point. Like I said, I'd love for all 25e abilities to be utility-based. Mag, Mirage and Zephyr are three examples I can think of off the top of my head that I really like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenariousNex Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Friball frenzy is a nice buff, would be awesome if you could buff self. Rhino Charge is op, making rhino fastest traveling warframe in the game. just increase the duration to make him teleport around any room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Worthless first posts are disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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