The Nekros Buffs Were A Step In The Right Direction But...

[NocturneOfSolace]

They failed ultimately, to address Nekros's real issues.

Shadows of the Dead buff was great, but what it really needed was a faster cast time, as late game its a death sentence potentially even with natural talent to use around enemies.

Terrify still has the same problem, it's always had, it runs off of power duration, range, and power. That's pretty difficult to mod well for, it's been Nekros's main issue, modding for his abilities is always a 1 hit wonder, his abilities synergize so poorly that you can mod all or nothing, you can mod for Shadows to be strong, Terrify to be strong, or Desecrate to be strong, but not 2 or 3.

Compare say to a Mag, who can just build power strength and automatically make three of her abilities very powerful.

Next up is Soul Punch, a useless ability due to how picky it is about it's targeting, it's supremely difficult to land a soul punch on the fly when you're moving around, and you have to knock over that bombard immediately before he blows you to hell, but hey the Soul Punch, like a lot of Press 1 Abilities, requires 100% accuracy, you must get the crosshair completely on the target before it'll let you, and that can be tricky at times.

Finally, Nekros is squishier then pre buff Ember

Yes, that's right, he's squishier then one of the previous squishiest frames in the game.

with 300 Hp at lvl 30 and 270 Shields at lvl 30, compare to Ember with 300 shields at lvl 30, Nekros with only 65 armor, admittedly 15 was worse, but Ember at least had the advantage of stronger shields, and more mod capacity for defensive mods due to the fact that modding for multiple abilities to be strong on her isn't as hard as Nekros

Finally, now that she's been buffed, she's even more durable.

I'm not saying Nekros needs to be a tank, but he definitely needs to be able to sustain more then 2-3 hits on T4, I want him to be T4 viable please DE, I'm tired of my poor nekros being useful only for Desecrating, being a pure support frame that cannot be in combat because he's as durable as wet tissue paper.

Thoughts?

Personally, I feel Nekros needs to just be outright reworked, he's supposed to be themed as a Necromancer, and for exploiting weaknesses in living enemies yet we hardly see any of that, Terrify works equally on living and non living enemies, and Shadows is cumbersome to use

Edited January 30, 2015 by NocturneOfSolace

[ClockworkSpectre]

I agree with soul punch.  I think rather than a targeted ability like it is now, it should be changed to work more like ice wave on frost, the part about just being able to shoot it off wherever you are aiming and give it a small radius.  Then everything it hits along the way gets effected, or the first thing it hits, either or. 

 

Also, yes, all his abilities, with may the exception of desecrate, should have very short cast times.  He is far to squishy to have long cast times. 

Edited January 30, 2015 by ClockworkSpectre

[xAzazyel]

I agree....already spended 2 formas on my nekros but for me the people see nekros like a "Dispenser of drops" instead of a caster/support frame, you either mod for SotD to be strong or for Desecrate to be usefull, and the animation of SotD its sooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow, even with natural talent takes forever to cast.

 

In a normal mission (im talking about solar system not T4 endless mode) you get killed pretty easy, the powers still need to synergize well instead of having 1 usefull skill and 3 mediocre skills, and the worst thing you either go full caster with no defensive mods (due to the high cost in space for having all your skills being usefull) or go nekros with 1 or 2 defensive mod just for desecrate spam :/

[egregiousRac]

I would like to see Terrify no longer affected by power strength, invulnerability during casting of SoTD (give it some awesome VfX during casting), and 150 base health (450 at rank 30). This would fix most of his issues.

[Kthal]

In the last devstream, one of the things they discussed was indirectly shortening SotD's casting animation by shaving the pause frames from both ends, and they also improved Soul Punch by reducing the casting animation to a free action.

 

It is entirely possible that they may have ghosted that change in. I haven't tried Nekros since the buff, but I would find a few videos and see how he compares.

[NocturneOfSolace]

In the last devstream, one of the things they discussed was indirectly shortening SotD's casting animation by shaving the pause frames from both ends, and they also improved Soul Punch by reducing the casting animation to a free action.

 

It is entirely possible that they may have ghosted that change in. I haven't tried Nekros since the buff, but I would find a few videos and see how he compares.

I have, and it helps, but he's still very weak and not very viable for anything beyond desecrating in late game content

And it sucks, I adore Nekros, he looks awesome, and menacing, and he's themed after a necromancer theme so amazingly cool!

And yet, he's nothing but a desecrate *@##$, day in and day out, it's all people want him for, please DE, make Nekros viable for something other then desecrating, rework him, or just get rid of his current weaknesses so that he not considered the butt monkey of warframes

I would like to see Terrify no longer affected by power strength, invulnerability during casting of SoTD (give it some awesome VfX during casting), and 150 base health (450 at rank 30). This would fix most of his issues.

It's a massive problem, on paper it doesnt seem so bad, but when modding for terrify and you start throwing in corrupted mods, it is stupidly hard to make Terrify really good, because you cant use overextended, as that weakens it by 60%, so you have to counter with blind rage, which means you have to counter with fleeting expertise, which means you have to counter with NARROW MINDED

Seriously

 

[Aspari]

My biggest issue with Nekros is that from a creative standpoint he's extremely dull, lacks (but not totally devoid of) application, and is just a wasted opportunity to be amazing mechanically and aesthetically. The only reason I play him is because he's the only Warframe whose appearance I like. But I still dislike every power he has. Especially Shadows of the Dead. It's not awesome to send dumb mooks to fight dumb mooks.

 

Edit: I also use him as proof that you can do high level content (not Endless missions) without power spam and come out alive.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Aspari

[007-Creed]

you either mod for SotD to be strong or for Desecrate to be usefull

 

Its possible with Despoil syndicate mod

[(XBOX)Gen James Bond]

I have to agree with all his points on Nekros. I've help train 6 people to use and mod their Nekros for desecrate build because theirs simply no way to build for multiple abilities ;abandoning the other 3. Now called Nekros The necromancing Alloy Plate Farmer........

[elele]

My biggest issue with Nekros is that from a creative standpoint he's extremely dull, lacks (but not totally devoid of) application, 

 

My favorite moments of Warframe involve playing Nekros solo in 30-40min survivals. Nothing beats that adrenaline rush. 

[Noble_Cactus]

The greater problem with Terrify is that it just doesn't work well with how the game is played. Fears are good in other rpgs because you're usually only fighting several enemies/players at a time, not hordes. You're fine as long as you don't aggro mobs into more mobs (just don't be -that- guy and fear entire crowds away from the tank, please). In Warframe, the goal is ultimately to kill as many enemies as possible in the shortest amount of time possible, in the safest and more reliable way possible. That's how you run endless missions.

While other disables make enemies easier to kill, Terrify makes them -harder- to kill because most of them are going to sprint away into some far-flung corner of the map. Basically, you're being -that one guy- who fears a pack of mobs and scatters them into weird places. Moreover, you're slowing down the killing process, which means less resources and air for your team and a higher chance of dying to mobs that could potentially oneshot you (remember that levels have a cap on how many enemies can be alive at once). The Terrfiy change did nothing to address this, so despite the QoL changes regarding how the ability is used, the core function of the ability still needs work.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[ZoneDymo]

Nekros needs a total rework, his moves are currently broken fundamentally and apart from that I find them extremely uninspired.

Nekros is for me the opposite of Trinity.

 

Trinity is a healer, they could have sooo easily made a standard generic healer but they made something cool out of her.

Nekros is death, one would think braindead (pun intended) easy to make cool and usefull abilities for but they failed hard in the that regard.

[PsychoticMarik]

The cast time on his ult even with Natural Talent is really mind blowingly bad. It should recieve cast speed buffs for sure. Amoung other things that I've gone into too many times in the past few days to be bothered with typing up again right now.

 

I've never actually tried modding for Terrify, but I can see why it would be such a nightmare. Should certainly do something about that.

 

I also agree that soul punch is largely garbage. Perhaps mostly due to how stupid accurate they want the crosshair to be(tho this is a problem on alot of frames), but maybe if they simply changed it to work like Ember's fireball(but with instant travel time)so that you could just aim and cast it would be decent? Give it a decent projectile size and hitbox, but nothing oversized, and give it some actual aoe on its impact location to apply the ragdoll affect it has now.

Let us play around with it like that for awhile and see how much it changes things. Just an idea. I'd also gladly take an armor buff.

 

I agree with your last point tho. Nekros should just be outright reworked to reflect an actual concept of a Necromancer/minion master with synergy between all 4 of his powers. I think its safe to say however that we might be waiting a long...long time(see Forever)on that, and its a shame.

Edited January 30, 2015 by PsychoticMarik

[NocturneOfSolace]

The cast time on his ult even with Natural Talent is really mind blowingly bad. It should recieve cast speed buffs for sure. Amoung other things that I've gone into too many times in the past few days to be bothered with typing up again right now.

 

I've never actually tried modding for Terrify, but I can see why it would be such a nightmare. Should certainly do something about that.

 

I also agree that soul punch is largely garbage. Perhaps mostly due to how stupid accurate they want the crosshair to be(tho this is a problem on alot of frames), but maybe if they simply changed it to work like Ember's fireball(but with instant travel time)so that you could just aim and cast it would be decent? Give it a decent projectile size and hitbox, but nothing oversized, and give it some actual aoe on its impact location to apply the ragdoll affect it has now.

Let us play around with it like that for awhile and see how much it changes things. Just an idea. I'd also gladly take an armor buff.

 

I agree with your last point tho. Nekros should just be outright reworked to reflect an actual concept of a Necromancer/minion master with synergy between all 4 of his powers. I think its safe to say however that we might be waiting a long...long time(see Forever)on that, and its a shame.

Mainly yeah, Soul punch would be very useful for knocking over problematic enemies who can kill you, but because of how picky its targeting is, its nigh useless on the go when you need it RIGHT THEN to keep that bombard from blowing your face off

[007-Creed]

Mainly yeah, Soul punch would be very useful for knocking over problematic enemies who can kill you, but because of how picky its targeting is, its nigh useless on the go when you need it RIGHT THEN to keep that bombard from blowing your face off

 Where did u want to aim exactly to use single target ability? Pls...

[-Pharraoh-]

devils advocating everything.. you sound butt hurt bro nuff said...

[deathstar2190]

gusy try to remeber the first rule of the fourms. RESPCT ur fellow tenno. if any of u need reminding 

use this link

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286054-community-rules-warning-points-20-code-of-conduct/

[Burnthesteak87]

I agree with the OP that modding Nekros can be problematic, as its moddable key skills (Terrify and SOTD) revolves around too many statistics, so essentially as yet said, working with corrupted mods, enhancing one clashes with the other one or the mod capacity.

I'm playing Nekros more often recently, I've been discovering the recent changes and Augments changed it enough to check the difference.

Thanks to Despoil + Equilibrium it doesn't need Fleeting Expertize anymore, so essentially there's a little more room for other choices.

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Nekros/t_30_430020003_2-0-10-4-6-5-5-5-5-37-8-5-54-1-10-256-2-3-458-3-3_2-6-54-7-256-9-458-9-f-f-5-9-4-9-f-f-37-5_0/en/1-0-12/0

This would be essentially a good all around build.
Equilibrium, Vitality and Natural Talent are mandatory.
Despoil isn't mandatory but elseway I'd suggest to get Rage + Fleeting Expertize.
Streamline isn't mandatory, Stretch goes fine with Desecrate and suits the range nerf for Terrify.


> The buff Terrify got is noticeable, it really helps now, even if the drawback still is enemies are hard to hit.

> I'd like to analyze something regarding Shadows of the Dead and its scaling.

First of all I find FALSE that SOTD casting time is terrible, I'll explain why. It forces us to use Natural Talent which imho is -as I already said- necessary on Nekros and works fine with every skill; with it equipped, there's plenty of situations when you can cast a preventive Terrify, use your Companion's Stealth, abusing the Line Of Sight, hiding after teammates,... to cast it in safety.

In the last changes DE made it to scale with Power Strenght more:
 

• Number of shadow copies, damage bonus, and health bonus are affected by Power Strenght.

Now, considering the incoming Augment, which is going to fit the survivability of Nekros, I'd say that Nekros will be gaining more benefit by stacking Power Strenght. The problem is SOTD to work properly needs also Power Duration. This heavily complicates the mod selection, making it so that if you want to make it work excellently you will have to sacrify other vital mods.
But problems with stacking Power Strenght doesn't end here.

Also the damage sShadows are pulling out isn't bad. The problem is they scatter around, don't focus, they waste a lot of their 30 seconds about shooting walls or covering. 

To make it work properly they should be more relentless, acting more kamikaze.
If that's not enough Imho they should follow a Nekros command and prioritize its targets. If thats not easy to make an alternative would be to make them prioritize Soul Punch's target. Is that realizable?

Shortly, the update SOTD had isn't bad (also remember Shadows don't bodyblock you anymore), but Shadows' AI makes their damage and every kind of scaling worthless.

> Soul Punch is just more versatile, nothing changed much. I use it often 1v1 with big targets to keep them stunlocked. Nothing else.
Its ragdoll mechanic and little AOE imho are still extremely useless.

I feel Nekros is heading a good direction, even if it's tied to the farmer role. If the problems with Shadows AI would be solved Imho it would also become a nice Damage Dealer.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[akira_him]

The ideal situation of him is that the shadows do the damage for you while looting, but the AI is just pulling his back

[Bouldershoulder]

Thanks to Despoil + Equilibrium it doesn't need Fleeting Expertize anymore, so essentially there's a little more room for other choices.

Yes.

Either this, to help allies http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Nekros/t_30_430240000_1-4-10-2-0-10-5-2-5-6-7-5-12-3-5-36-8-5-54-1-10-398-6-3-458-5-3_2-6-54-7-5-9-12-6-1-7-458-9-398-9-6-11-36-7_0/en/1-0-12/

 

Or this, to help yourself http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Nekros/t_30_430240000_1-4-10-2-0-10-5-2-5-6-7-5-12-3-5-36-8-5-54-1-10-256-6-3-458-5-3_2-6-54-7-5-9-12-6-1-7-458-9-256-9-6-11-36-7_0/en/1-0-12/

 

Spending health for desecrate -> replenishing it with health orbs -> replenishing energy with equilibrium - you always have health and energy.

 

84% power strength provides 18 shadows with 376% damage and 284% health, and terrify scares 37 targets, which isn't bad at all.

[Tsoe]

soul punch is pure madness... i just wich we could use some sort of "COME here and protect me" feature for shadow of the dead... like if you press again they follow you in formation around you, if you press again they dispatch seek and destroy

[BlueAnchorite]

Wondering if anyone has seen my thread on Nekros, which addresses making all of his abilities (hopefully) much more viable? https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/393459-new-and-improved-nekros/

[Burnthesteak87]

Yes.

Either this, to help allies http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Nekros/t_30_430240000_1-4-10-2-0-10-5-2-5-6-7-5-12-3-5-36-8-5-54-1-10-398-6-3-458-5-3_2-6-54-7-5-9-12-6-1-7-458-9-398-9-6-11-36-7_0/en/1-0-12/

 

Or this, to help yourself http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Nekros/t_30_430240000_1-4-10-2-0-10-5-2-5-6-7-5-12-3-5-36-8-5-54-1-10-256-6-3-458-5-3_2-6-54-7-5-9-12-6-1-7-458-9-256-9-6-11-36-7_0/en/1-0-12/

 

Spending health for desecrate -> replenishing it with health orbs -> replenishing energy with equilibrium - you always have health and energy.

 

84% power strength provides 18 shadows with 376% damage and 284% health, and terrify scares 37 targets, which isn't bad at all.

13 Shadows not 18. I'd still prefer something like this (or anyway keeping 1-2 free slots for the new Augment, Handspring and Thief's Wit)

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Nekros/t_30_430023003_2-0-10-5-5-5-6-6-5-27-7-3-37-8-5-54-1-10-256-2-3-458-3-3-479-4-9_2-6-54-7-256-9-458-9-479-7-5-5-6-11-27-9-37-5_0/en/1-0-12/0

 

soul punch is pure madness... i just wich we could use some sort of "COME here and protect me" feature for shadow of the dead... like if you press again they follow you in formation around you, if you press again they dispatch seek and destroy

Imho there is no need for all these interaction: Shadows lure enemy attention nicely yet, you could just strand behind them.

It would be important a command to make them focusfire an area or a target.

From the circumstances I understand there's a threat system in the game (Shadows lure enemy fire, Nyx' Chaos redirect the threat between enemies..), so I think it would be possible making so that Soul Punch would redirect Shadow's focus on a specific area or enemy. A sort of "Search and Destroy"in determined area command.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[Bouldershoulder]

13 Shadows not 18.

Maybe. I judged by the 2 shadows I can summon after the first pack expired

Edited February 14, 2015 by Bouldershoulder

[TehTeaKing]

One thing I'd definitely like to see worked on is soul punch. I seem to remember when soul punching an enemy into a crowd would send many enemies flying (similar to collateral achieved when shooting an enemy with a bow/boltor/etc.), or is it just me? Also, SOTD AI isn't the greatest. Personally I don't think desecrate or terrify are as bad - though terrify seems to feel lacklustre for me.