PookieNumnums Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) It didn't stop with Hayden - although I doubt the Orokin were around during Hayden's time. To me, Hayden was merely the legend and story that inspired the Orokin to try and recreate his success as a weapon of their own - only, they fail to constantly, because Hayden was a 1-in-1-million freak accident. This "inspired by a legend of Hayden Tenno" theory seems confirmed by the idea that the Warframes have "Tenno Model" written on them - Tenno Legend, Tenno Project, Tenno Model Warframes. That is to say: I don't think we named ourselves. Like we didn't throw ourselves into the Void and put ourselves into Warframes. That was all at the mechanization of the Orokin's whims. And yeah, there WAS a hivemind there, I'm not arguing against that. I'm just suggesting that whatever the Void did to us allowed us to supercede the hivemind of the Proto-Rhino, to block out the "ancestral memories" and bring it under control. If we still HAD the Technocyte, we'd be at its mercy, like all the others; but, if we were something more, something different and greater from a more powerful source (the Void), we could overcome its grip and silence the voices in the Proto-Rhino's head, save our own. i think youve never played or watched dark sector. go watch the DS trailer... its got grineer, lotus symbols, lisets, burstons.... and an early jackal model... seriously if you think they werent around youre wrong.. perhaps in haydens time they were just another super power of the world, and then by the time of the old war they had become the ONLY super power on the planet... Edited February 2, 2015 by T4LCOMX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 i mustve hit a nerve,it seems no one is willing to speculate on what the far right end of my void fry scale would mean DUDE SERIOUSLY The right side of your scale is worthless till we patch in all the other holes. how can we make an educated guess before we know the steps between? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 i think youve never played or watched dark sector. go watch the DS trailer... its got gineer, lotus symbols, lisets, burstons.... and an early jackal model... seriously if you think they werent around youre wrong.. perhaps in haydens time they were just another super power of the world, and then by the time of the old war they had become the ONLY super power on the planet... That DS is not at all the DS we got in the end, and not at all the DS that is linked to Warframe. The DS of Warframe is a Cold War-era event, no Grineer, burstons, no Lisets. Lotus symbols? A marking for one lone black market dealer. The Jackal? Little more than a quadruped tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) The Orokin were masters of genetics. Their constucts still dominate Earth. The tenno are their constructs and look at us. The grineer are a degenerate polity existing on the ruins of the Orokin Empire. They're trying to reclaim it, but it's not working out well for them. Moreover, they're probably the remnant of the conventional Orokin military from the Sentient War. That was a multi-generational conflict that consumed vast resources, including human ones. Need a huge army fast for cannon fodder? Clones. Guess what's left after the party? Clones. Clones that now have to make their way forward in a ravaged origin system in the wake of the Empire's destruction at the hands of the tenno. maybe you arent reading my posts here lemme break it down for you. CLONES = Genetic Deterioration. Genetic Deterioration = Bad for business. Short Life Spans. Weaker Bodies and Immune systems. Deformities. i dont think we are clones or there would be no use in giving personality to any of the pre warframe era tenno... like ember, or mag... if we were clones wed be more than just cloned to withstand tcyte. Wed be cloned to obey every freakin command and would probably lack a general intelligence and will of our own *edit* how the grineer are inb4 what about steel meridian.. evolution happens, and all it really takes is a specific situation or environs to make someone think or feel differently. hence why conditioning is repetitive and not varied.. for all we know the leader of meridians quest for freedom started at the sight of a mistreaded feral kubrow puppy Edited February 2, 2015 by T4LCOMX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) That DS is not at all the DS we got in the end, and not at all the DS that is linked to Warframe. The DS of Warframe is a Cold War-era event, no Grineer, burstons, no Lisets. Lotus symbols? A marking for one lone black market dealer. The Jackal? Little more than a quadruped tank.dark sector the precursor to warframe has all the elements i listed. go watch some videos and figure it out rather than talking out your butt iirc we use the same sound bite 'its the grineer' and they look almost identical. except now theyre a little more funky since that degen has been going on for so long Edited February 2, 2015 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 dark sector the precursor to warframe has all the elements i listed. go watch some videos and figure it out rather than talking out your butt I have. There is no Liset. There are no Grineer. And the guns are just guns from that time period. Unless, again, you're talking about this: Which is nowhere NEAR the Dark Sector we got. Certain aesthetics details were retained, but everything was switched over and changed to that Cold War time period and grander aesthetic And there CERTAINLY is no mention of any Empire - unless you count America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I have. There is no Liset. There are no Grineer. And the guns are just guns from that time period. Unless, again, you're talking about this: snip Which is nowhere NEAR the Dark Sector we got. Certain aesthetics details were retained, but everything was switched over and changed to that Cold War time period and grander aesthetic And there CERTAINLY is no mention of any Empire - unless you count America. it is what im talking about, and whatever game you got on the xbox has nothing to do with what is going on in the warfame universe in DE's mind. So what if some of the aspects of the game were changed prior to release, there are all sorts of reasons why production gets altered in any form of media. the fact is, it has many of the elements we have now in our game, which is apparently in the same universe, at least as far as im concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) it is what im talking about, and whatever game you got on the xbox has nothing to do with what is going on in the warfame universe in DE's mind. So what if some of the aspects of the game were changed prior to release, there are all sorts of reasons why production gets altered in any form of media. the fact is, it has many of the elements we have now in our game, which is apparently in the same universe, at least as far as im concerned. also iirc when proto armor came out for excal megan said DS and WF are inextricably connected and we have the glaive and a nyx looks like the nemesis... which reminds me of nemesis from RE ALSO the factions have very specific artistic criteria for the design of their weapons armor and npcs... keep that in mind when understanding the similarities and why they were kept. DE could have easily avoided reusing or even made attempts to reskin things that people feel link the two games into the same universe. Edited February 2, 2015 by T4LCOMX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Id just like to add, ive been crow hunting for the last few months i have a nice steamy pile of it waiting for when DE does reveal the truths about the game that we so long for... just in case i am terribly stupidly off on my interpretations of the info ive come across and connections ive made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haolee510 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I've got a feeling the "lore" DE promised would come this year would actually focus more on enemy factions and the Warframe universe itself, not the Tenno and our origins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverlordMcGeek Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's just a golem thing inside each suit at this point: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 it is what im talking about, and whatever game you got on the xbox has nothing to do with what is going on in the warfame universe in DE's mind. So what if some of the aspects of the game were changed prior to release, there are all sorts of reasons why production gets altered in any form of media. the fact is, it has many of the elements we have now in our game, which is apparently in the same universe, at least as far as im concerned. Then why is the Proto-Armor as it was in the RELEASED version of Dark Sector featured as the connection point between our Dark Sector and that one? And why did you use a quote from the RELEASED version of Dark Sector that has no clear defining link to the Dark Sector of the trailer? You're the one pulling things out of their &#!, mate, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IIIDevoidIII Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Removed some rude and irrelevant replies. Let's keep things civil here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The being is seemingly a composite. You have a human of some sort, almost certainly a clone, and probably infested in a manner very similar to what is seen in Dark Sector. You also have a spiritual entity returned from the Void (Zariman kids) that seemingly can control the whole thing--and switch them at will. Without the spiritual side, you get the RhinoP codex and the infested Mesa warframe (which the Lotus refers to as hollow). With it, you get...us, a being with direction and purpose and not just a monster (which leads into Orokin viewpoints/prejudice and might be the vector of their ultimate fate). The tenno is more than the sum of its parts. I don't think this is likely, it muddies up the narrative, suddenly you have three parts to a Player: The suit, the void ghost/Tenno and the never-before-mentioned-clone-body-that-only-exists-to-make-existing-narrative-make-more-sense. It's clumsy storytelling DE have explicitly stated that their world is very weird and as a result they want the player's character to be relatable and "grounded" so, player-as-ghost who inhabits dummy-plug bodies in suits just goes too much against their stated goals. Physical-but-tainted person in a suit, fits their goals much better. If there is anything at all to the energy-Tenno notion, DE's stated story-intention suggests that is will be like Vor, a being with ties to the void who does have a canonical physical form but can discorporate in specific, limited, circumstances (perhaps to enter a Warframe). Non-energy options include the Warframe-modifies-the-pilot-to-fit-on-entry and Warframe-uses-Orokin-space-folding. I very much doubt that the Tenno are themselves technocyte infected as, again, it would muddy the narrative: Are the Tenno considered monsters because of the void taint or the technocyte infection, either one lessens the impact of the other. I think that too many people ignore DE's motivations when considering "lore", because, while DE surely are looking at the logic of their world, they will generally be thinking more in terms of the story they want to tell and how to bend the world to support that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 That DS is not at all the DS we got in the end, and not at all the DS that is linked to Warframe. The DS of Warframe is a Cold War-era event, no Grineer, burstons, no Lisets. Lotus symbols? A marking for one lone black market dealer. The Jackal? Little more than a quadruped tank. While I absolutely agree that the demo reel for the dark-sector-that-never-was is irrelevant to Warframe, save as an indication of what DE would have done at that time given the chance (and had that game been made we wouldn't have Warframe today, as Warframe was made to _replace_ that game) One side note is that the Lotus symbol in is 4 places, the black-market (Who is helping the Agency against Mezner) The Nemesis suit shoulder, Hayden's stolen suit shoulder and the game logo. Given Mezner used to be a researcher for the "Agency futurist Enclave" and it was technocyte research he was doing before he was infected. IMHO the Lotus symbol is one used by the Agency, hence it's on agency-friendly organisations and stolen-agency-developed-suits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 i still think DE is going to go with the meta- player as the tenno energy- story. The suits will just be bio-mechanical copies of the original WFs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 i still think DE is going to go with the meta- player as the tenno energy- story. The suits will just be bio-mechanical copies of the original WFs. We already have plenty telling us that the suits are hollow and that there _is_ a physical corpse in there. So if you take that route you're back at the separate suit and cloned-dummy-plug-body, which IMHO isn't something DE will do (as I explained above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) We already have plenty telling us that the suits are hollow and that there _is_ a physical corpse in there. So if you take that route you're back at the separate suit and cloned-dummy-plug-body, which IMHO isn't something DE will do (as I explained above) where does it say that there is a physical corpse inside of the WF? I think there is a clear distinction between what the original WF were, and the biomechanical suit we recreate from BPs now. I'm sure the first Excalibur wasnt just a suit filled with some kind of energy, but the replica we make from BPs seems to just be a bio-mechanical suit that we control. I dont think its necessary to have a "dummy-plug-body" explanation. Edited February 3, 2015 by Hypernaut1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 where does it say that there is a physical corpse inside of the WF? I think there is a clear distinction between what the original WF were, and the biomechanical suit we recreate from BPs now. I'm sure the first Excalibur wasnt just a suit filled with some kind of energy, but the replica we make from BPs seems to just be a bio-mechanical suit that we control. I dont think its necessary to have a "dummy-plug-body" explanation. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6553908/Warframe/Warframe_oldlore_arid_victory.jpg ...Every time we tear a Tenno corpse from it's metal womb.. Patient Zero quest That's not a Tenno. That's a hollow Warframe being puppeted by Infested flesh. Put it out of its misery. https://warframe.com/game/factions/tenno While the memories of the Tenno have faded over time, their mastery of guns, blades, and Warframe exo-armor has not. "Exo" meaning "outer" implying the existence of the "inner" that is not a Warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 While I absolutely agree that the demo reel for the dark-sector-that-never-was is irrelevant to Warframe, save as an indication of what DE would have done at that time given the chance (and had that game been made we wouldn't have Warframe today, as Warframe was made to _replace_ that game) One side note is that the Lotus symbol in is 4 places, the black-market (Who is helping the Agency against Mezner) The Nemesis suit shoulder, Hayden's stolen suit shoulder and the game logo. Given Mezner used to be a researcher for the "Agency futurist Enclave" and it was technocyte research he was doing before he was infected. IMHO the Lotus symbol is one used by the Agency, hence it's on agency-friendly organisations and stolen-agency-developed-suits Hrm, interesting, wasn't aware of the multiple locations bit, and I'd say your theory is right because of it... Still, I stand by the statement DE made that Dark Sector and Warframe, while connected, are so distanced by time that the influence they have on one another is negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCatLad Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well I'm abandoning thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatrez Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Seriously, we really need Warframe Game Theorists :P So here's my theory, pls point out any wrong in here, thks Orokins sent children into the void. At there, they been infected with Techno Virus. Those been infected were placed on the Zariman. Later the girl frm Ember codec found that ship and bring back to the Orokin. During the War, Orokin crafted special armor A.K.A. Warframe for those infected to amplify/control their power. After the war, they revenged on Orokin for they made them suffer from the infection. Sorry for the poor language, hope u all understand. Edited February 3, 2015 by Quatrez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Seriously, we really need Warframe Game Theorists :P So here's my theory, pls point out any wrong in here, thks Orokins sent children into the void. At there, they been infected with Techno Virus. Those been infected were placed on the Zariman. Later the girl frm Ember codec found that ship and bring back to the Orokin. During the War, Orokin crafted special armor A.K.A. Warframe for those infected to amplify/control their power. After the war, they revenged on Orokin for they made them suffer from the infection. Sorry for the poor language, hope u all understand. YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS! (still argue against us having Technocyte infestation, though, but can agree with the other points) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 We already know what's on the far end of the scale. Void Vor. Just some corpse bits held together by void energy. Extremely powerful, but essentially mindless and bound forever to the void. The tenno are the best of both worlds. Going all one way or the other turns us into monsters, and we've picked the more powerful of two middle grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatrez Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS! (still argue against us having Technocyte infestation, though, but can agree with the other points) But hey it's a theory. A space theory, thks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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