Kohm Got Over-Optimized!

[[DE]Grzegorz]

I love how DE tries to make Kohm more bearable on lower end systems but man... You optimized it too much this time.

 

Let's look at the previous stats of Kohm (from Wiki)

 

39 damage (7.8/7.8/23.4 IPS)

3.7~3.75RPS

10 pellets at full charge.

 

By using very simple maths, we get damage per pellet*pellets per shot*shots per second

Which equals to 39*3.7*10, leaving us with whopping 1443DPS.

Mere 144.3 DPS base which was a major turn-off for most people.

 

Let's take a look at the new, improved and optimized Kohm.

It's damage got a major buff, supposed to improve ammo efficiency (again...) while allowing DE to decrease its pellet count and firerate to make it more bearable on lower end systems.

77 damage (15.4/15.4/46.2 IPS). Damage got pretty much doubled.

2.7 ~2.75 RPS Firerate got reduced.

5 pellets on full charge. Pellet count got halved.

So yeah, let's look at the base statcard DPS we see.

 

207.9DPS base, which is slightly below average for market weapons (averaging at about 250DPS base).

Now, to account for pellet change.

1039.5DPS.

 

1039.5<1443. By quite a lot.

 

So, at this point I ask DE to do one of the following changes.

 

 

Increase the damage further, to ~100 per pellet, which would put pretty much exactly where it was before U15.13 while keeping lower pellet count and firerate.

Revert the firerate back to 3.7RPS, which would put it pretty much in the same place.

Increase the pellet count by 2 on max charge, to 7, which would achieve exactly the same thing as the two suggestions above.

 

UN-NERF KOHM!
 

 

Changes done to Kohm withouth statistical babbling.

"Improved ammo efficiency".

Improved performance on lower end hardware.

Improved Kohm's statcard to make it more appealing to new players.

Nerfed its true potential for avid Kohm users.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Mofixil

[PrivateRiem]

The Kohm as it was before this nerf was essentially perfect. It had a decent firerate, decent spread you could work around, decent damage that could get you through a 40 minute T4 survival.

 

Now the firerate is too low to do anything with it, its too accurate for no reason so I'm forced to throw away the tainted shell I so painstakingly leveled to R9 for my setup to work and get a new one I'll also have to level up with the cores I haven't been able to farm since they removed T4 keys from syndicates.

 

Is DE actually trying to stop me from playing? Cause its working really well right now.<

 

[Edit] I noticed the crit chance and status chance were not increased to compensate either, so thats a pretty massive nerf.

Edited February 5, 2015 by PrivateRiem

[Rambone77]

Just remove some of the heavy duty particle effects stop removing the stats that make kohm what it is. Come on! :\

[Ventura_Highway]

This is kind of ridiculous.

 

I hope DE gives the Kohm back some of its fire rate

[[DE]Grzegorz]

This is kind of ridiculous.

 

I hope DE gives the Kohm back some of its fire rate

Or a few more pellets.

Or everything at once.

[Ventura_Highway]

Or a few more pellets.

Or everything at once.

All I know is I use the kohm, and I have a toaster for a computer.

It worked just fine

[Llyssa]

I don't understand the change... other shotties have more pellets and better fire rate....(drakgoon shoots faster and has twice as many pellets... they were roughly equal before this update). How is the kohm causing problems and the drakgoon isn't? They're both projectile(rather than hitscan) shotties....

[MetalDead]

This majorly irks me, because the entire thing that made the Kohm unique was its massive pellet count. Its DPS was incredibly high, but was nowhere near concentrated, which was what kept it from being overpowered. It was great for mob clearing, but not so much on single targets with high health. Now they've gone and changed the entire dynamic of its use; it's not even the same gun anymore. It still has a large spray, which means that it's not very good for single targets, but now its also not viable for large mobs with the pellet nerf. They've jammed it in the middle between two uses, which makes it almost useless for either purpose, as there are now much better alternatives for either extreme.

 

It's still not a single target gun DE, but now it's not even a mob clearer anymore.

 

I'm pretty peeved.

Edited February 6, 2015 by MetalDead

[notHunky]

I can't believe DE cut the pellet count in half without at the very least cutting the ammo consumption in half as well. Please at least decrease the ammo consumption and buff the status/critical chances to reflect the loss in volume of fire. If not then revert it back to the pre-nerf bullet hose it used to be.

[MetalDead]

I can't believe DE cut the pellet count in half without at the very least cutting the ammo consumption in half as well. Please at least decrease the ammo consumption and buff the status/critical chances to reflect the loss in volume of fire. If not then revert it back to the pre-nerf bullet hose it used to be.

Exactly.

Per pellet, it's now even LESS ammo efficient.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Just to get this thread back to life and correct these two people above me.

 

Ammo consumption per shot is derived from base pellet count/3 where ammo usage cannot be lower than 1. With 10 pellets per shot, Kohm used 3.(3) ammo units per shot, with rounding it would shoot like 3-3-4-3-3-4...and so on.

As of now, with 5 pellet per shot base, it uses between 1 and 1.(6) shots per second, usually shooting 1-2-1-2-1-2, sometimes 1-1-2 (rounding errors etc).

 

Still, this thread is valid as DE overoptimized Kohm. I understand their intentions but since its [Kohm] release, majority of the playerbase assumed that Kohm is nothing more than expensive mastery fodder, Kohm needs a few improvements (and tweaks to how status works on this gun).

 

As of now.

 

Single target:

Increase its firerate back to 3.7 rounds per second.

Decrease its spread (for whatever reason -35% spread from Tainted Shell makes it shoot a sparkling ball of death, 6.0 accuracy would be sufficient for single-target oriented Kohm).

 

Room clearing:

Increase its firerate back to 3.7 rounds per second.

Cut the damage in half while doubling the pellet count.

Effectively revert what has been done with last "optimizations".

Edited March 17, 2015 by Mofixil

[Necr0Ra1se]

You understand that Kohm already superior even to Soma(Prime) and Bolter prime. You want to buff it even further? I am totally agree with you lets make God race!

[Hatzeputt]

Just to get this thread back to life and correct these two people above me.

 

Ammo consumption per shot is derived from base pellet count/3 where ammo usage cannot be lower than 1. With 10 pellets per shot, Kohm used 3.(3) ammo units per shot, with rounding it would shoot like 3-3-4-3-3-4...and so on.

As of now, with 5 pellet per shot base, it uses between 1 and 1.(6) shots per second, usually shooting 1-2-1-2-1-2, sometimes 1-1-2 (rounding errors etc).

 

Still, this thread is valid as DE overoptimized Kohm. I understand their intentions but since its [Kohm] release, majority of the playerbase assumed that Kohm is nothing more than expensive mastery fodder, Kohm needs a few improvements (and tweaks to how status works on this gun).

 

As of now.

 

Single target:

Increase its firerate back to 3.7 rounds per second.

Decrease its spread (for whatever reason -35% spread from Tainted Shell makes it shoot a sparkling ball of death, 6.0 accuracy would be sufficient for single-target oriented Kohm).

 

Room clearing:

Increase its firerate back to 3.7 rounds per second.

Cut the damage in half while doubling the pellet count.

Effectively revert what has been done with last "optimizations".

You are right it is utter garbage and no one should use it, it is better to be forgotten! It does not need to have taken a look at it, just leave it alone, will ya. No dev attention at all please!!!

 

Shush go away nothing to see here......

Edited March 17, 2015 by Hatzeputt

[[DE]Grzegorz]

You are right it is utter garbage and no one should use it, it is better to be forgotten! It does not need to have taken a look at it, just leave it alone, will ya. No dev attention at all please!!!

Considering that buffs were actual buffs when "optimizations" and "tweaks" resulted in a nerf... I'm not sure anymore if I want DE to touch this gun once again :l

 

 

 

You understand that Kohm already superior even to Soma(Prime) and Bolter prime. You want to buff it even further? I am totally agree with you lets make God race!

 

Not. At. All. Explain it again.

 

 

/bragging rights

 

Current Kohm is in that weird position where it's pellet count and firerate are too low to make it perfect for room clearing yet it's accuracy is too low to make it excel at single target DPS.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Mofixil

[StickyBaseline]

It's still as good, 20% dps for 33% extra ammo efficiency is a really good tradeoff if you ask me. They just nerfed it's fun. I'd love if they could beef up the sound, pellet visuals or the recoil.

[StickyBaseline]

Current Kohm is in that weird position where it's pellet count and firerate are too low to make it perfect for room clearing yet it's accuracy is too low to make it excel at single target DPS.

Can't use this shotgun on shotgun range? use Tainted shell. I use an 8/10 tainted shell with ammo mutation and I still have 50k dps with sniper accuracy at full spool.

Edited March 17, 2015 by StickyBaseline

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Thank you for posting this. Every problem we have here would be solved if we:

1. Increase the fire rate by 50%

2. Decrease the damage per pellet by 75%

3. Lower ammo consumption to make up for the fire rate increase (maybe?)

 

The Kohm is the highest DPS weapon in the game by far. I've heard reports that it's capable of reaching over 100k DPS, and while I've only ever personally been able to get it into the 60s, that's still absolutely insane. My suggested changes would fix the fire rate problems that everyone has while keeping the ammo efficiency, but they would also cut the DPS in half. Even with these changes, the Kohm would remain one of the strongest weapons in the game.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Do we want to make shotguns viable or in line with everything else?

[MechaTails]

It's fine https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/396680-after-the-initial-shock-of-omg-they-nerfed-kohm/

[Necr0Ra1se]

Considering that buffs were actual buffs when "optimizations" and "tweaks" resulted in a nerf... I'm not sure anymore if I want DE to touch this gun once again :l

 

 

 

 

Not. At. All. Explain it again.

 

 

/bragging rights

 

Current Kohm is in that weird position where it's pellet count and firerate are too low to make it perfect for room clearing yet it's accuracy is too low to make it excel at single target DPS.

What are you talking about? Your screenshot of Kohm in your profile doesn't prove any of your words. It's perfect room cleaner. You forget about 1m punch through and pellets recochet from surfaces.  Maybe your build is not good ormaybe it's nor your weapon? Kohm Is fine like it is....It doesn't need any buffs or changes.

[Necr0Ra1se]

Thank you for posting this. Every problem we have here would be solved if we:

1. Increase the fire rate by 50%

2. Decrease the damage per pellet by 75%

3. Lower ammo consumption to make up for the fire rate increase (maybe?)

 

The Kohm is the highest DPS weapon in the game by far. I've heard reports that it's capable of reaching over 100k DPS, and while I've only ever personally been able to get it into the 60s, that's still absolutely insane. My suggested changes would fix the fire rate problems that everyone has while keeping the ammo efficiency, but they would also cut the DPS in half. Even with these changes, the Kohm would remain one of the strongest weapons in the game.

No Thank you what you are suggesting is Kohm when it was realesed fast firing low dmg garbage. I garantie you willbe out off ammo at 5 minute mark on mercury with ammo mutation and shotgun scavenger.

[Dunkingmachine]

Even if its dps got nerfed it's still a god tier gun, fantastic in most situations and downright broken at close range. The only buff i would support would be one to ammo efficiency, that's it.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

It's fine https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/396680-after-the-initial-shock-of-omg-they-nerfed-kohm/

In Kohm's case, worse than before=still better than anything else.

For whatever reason DE keeps improving its ease of use when no one cares about this gun anymore, it required at least some trigger discipline and was more effective, at least on paper.

 

What are you talking about? Your screenshot of Kohm in your profile doesn't prove any of your words. It's perfect room cleaner. You forget about 1m punch through and pellets recochet from surfaces.  Maybe your build is not good ormaybe it's nor your weapon? Kohm Is fine like it is....It doesn't need any buffs or changes.

 

 

...everything was easier during initial shock when every Kohm user agreed with me...

 

Kohm is good, pretty much better than anything else available but it's not the same weapon anymore. It had some character, required the user to at least have some kind of trigger discipline or to pick their fights. Now? It's way too easy to use, lost some its effectiveness (again, on paper), lost its charm. It's yet another "aim relatively close to something you want to kill, hold the trigger, reload, move on" gun.

 

I'm running out of arguments.

 

Anyways, Kohm status is still borked.

 

 

 

Even if its dps got nerfed it's still a god tier gun, fantastic in most situations and downright broken at close range. The only buff i would support would be one to ammo efficiency, that's it.

 

As of now, Kohm is one of the most ammo efficient weapons available. And in case of Kohm, better ammo efficiency is pretty much the same thing as lower pellet count. You know what makes shotguns viable and consistent? High saturation, which obviously means more pellets per area unit.

 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Mofixil

[Dunkingmachine]

 

As of now, Kohm is one of the most ammo efficient weapons available. And in case of Kohm, better ammo efficiency is pretty much the same thing as lower pellet count. You know what makes shotguns viable and consistent? High saturation, which obviously means more pellets per area unit.

 

 

Dont confuse ammo efficiency with ammo capacity. The Kohm has an enormous magazine and lots of reserve ammo, but it doesn't gain much from shotgun ammo pickups so you are doomed to run dry at some point. You won't notice that outside of non-endless missions normally since the initial spare ammo suffices for quite some time. Also deriving ammo efficiency from pellet count is really questionable, there's a lot of more reasonable ways of improving it.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Dunkingmachine

[Necr0Ra1se]

In Kohm's case, worse than before=still better than anything else.

For whatever reason DE keeps improving its ease of use when no one cares about this gun anymore, it required at least some trigger discipline and was more effective, at least on paper.

 

 

 

...everything was easier during initial shock when every Kohm user agreed with me...

 

Kohm is good, pretty much better than anything else available but it's not the same weapon anymore. It had some character, required the user to at least have some kind of trigger discipline or to pick their fights. Now? It's way too easy to use, lost some its effectiveness (again, on paper), lost its charm. It's yet another "aim relatively close to something you want to kill, hold the trigger, reload, move on" gun.

 

I'm running out of arguments.

 

Anyways, Kohm status is still borked.

 

 

 

 

As of now, Kohm is one of the most ammo efficient weapons available. And in case of Kohm, better ammo efficiency is pretty much the same thing as lower pellet count. You know what makes shotguns viable and consistent? High saturation, which obviously means more pellets per area unit.

 

Sorry but what you suggest will not bring it's "charms" back you are asking to make it GODMODE weapon!? You are asking increase dmg to 100 and firerate to 3.7. and 7 pelletes. Do you know about balance with this characteristic it will destroy other weapons lIke Soma and bolter prime. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by Necr0Ra1se