Actually Impossible To Pay For Mod Upgrading/ducat Items. Deep Explanation Within. Please Support.

[Kasarian]

That's the whole reason I said the primed mods should be permanent it's a high ducat cost for a reason, it's primed AND permanent it gives a long term goal for casual-semi casual players while only like a day for hardcore grinders.On the weapons it would only be a small-ish amount of weapons(enough unique weapons to fill a 2 month rotation iirc Baro was said to have one off that would be unique to him unobtainable anywhere else, I was hoping for something unique instead of re-skinned weapons we already have) this way they would come around at least 6 times a year and with my proposal they would definitely have to have as I said crazy good stats since they require so much ducats. It is after all a long-term goal. Sure it's time limited but not in the way that makes sure it's never coming back and as I said the mods are permanent.

 

Ok, seems like I wrote the part about the guns a bit too short. Let me elaborate. Now in order to do high content you are expected to have a "preset" loadout - prime weapons and/or syndicate weapons (among those the most efficient or at least most used it seems is Gammacor) because they are generally the strongest. Prime weapons are locked behind keys and lousy RNG while all of Syndicate weapons are behind Progress which is long and when you finally get it it's still secondary weapon. Now you want to give out even better weapons behind much taller grind wall? That's not exactly good in my opinion.

 

About long term goals, they're good but please don't tell me that playing next 2 months (for example, in reality much much longer) only to max out a single mod with my current playstyle is a good mechanic/design because for hardcore player it'll only take 3 weeks and it'll give those who play at slower pace than me goal for next year or so for example. All while at the same time new content will be released that will be limited time offers (and i don't mean just trader, Alerts, Events) and new content being released (updates smaller and bigger that bring any new weapons,frames etc) thus in a way slowing the pace at which the goal will be reached. What's the point in that? I am not saying like previously stated that i want everything at once but some sort of moderation when it comes to grind (with RNG) does come to mind.

 

 

PS. And I want to play at some point with maxed out loadout, even a single one but that constantly seems to run away...

Edited February 23, 2015 by Kasarian

[Lichcontract]

Ok, seems like I wrote the part about the guns a bit too short. Let me elaborate. Now in order to do high content you are expected to have a "preset" loadout - prime weapons and/or syndicate weapons (among those the most efficient or at least most used it seems is Gammacor) because they are generally the strongest. Prime weapons are locked behind keys and lousy RNG while all of Syndicate weapons are behind Progress which is long and when you finally get it it's still secondary weapon. Now you want to give out even better weapons behind much taller grind wall? That's not exactly good in my opinion.

 

About long term goals, they're good but please don't tell me that playing next 2 months (for example, in reality much much longer) only to max out a single mod with my current playstyle is a good mechanic/design because for hardcore player it'll only take 3 weeks and it'll give those who play at slower pace than me goal for next year or so for example. All while at the same time new content will be released that will be limited time offers (and i don't mean just trader, Alerts, Events) and new content being released (updates smaller and bigger that bring any new weapons,frames etc) thus in a way slowing the pace at which the goal will be reached. What's the point in that? I am not saying like previously stated that i want everything at once but some sort of moderation when it comes to grind (with RNG) does come to mind.

 

 

PS. And I want to play at some point with maxed out loadout, even a single one but that constantly seems to run away...

 

Idk who you play with but generally I'm not expected to have a "preset loadout" of prime weapons or syndicate weapons when I join recruiting for high level stuff usually I jump in with whatever I want (Hydroid, sheev and whatever primary and secondary I feel at the time, usually my dread and brakk). And fair enough the grind for some prime weapons can be hard AF but that's why in my system if you don't get what you want from your time in the void you can buy each of the prime weapons eliminating the RNG completely since you can trade in your random crap to get what you actually want.

 

I never said that playing for that having such little r5 core packs was a good mechanic....I said that it's still a low a chance to get the r5 core packs "remedied a little with the addition of r5 cores to the star chart - still a low chance to get those though" and I also said that I'm not really balancing for the grinders, I'm saying there can be long term goals such as primed mods and prisma weapons/cosmetics which are there for you to max out and get when you've reached the end of the game like having every other mod maxed, every weapon maxed and forma'd to your liking, Every frame maxed and set up the way you want. It's meant to be an end game reward since by that time you can usually just go to the void spend some time burning off keys you don't need to get prime parts for those primed mods and prisma things.

 

I'm all for having an actual place where I can go to earn tons of r5 cores. Hell I know the pain of not having enough, everyone does, I haven't even maxed out steel fiber for my valkyr yet, I haven't maxed tons of things (made worse you need duplicates of things like serration for your sentinel) lol I haven't even maxed out a single primed mod yet but I'll get there in time. That doesn't mean though that I'm okay with DEs nerf of the r5core packs(77%-25%) or the fact they messed up the drop tables(used to give a prime part every wave 15,15 minutes, prime part on round 4, void key on round 4-star chart) because I need a feasible way to actually rank mods and get my (future) prime weapons.

[1N33DM0N3Y]

Only '' Credit '' is the biggest issue of all the complains Daksektors, Void, Invasions now cant thow enought cred this the amount of what we are consuming.

And i running every damed day to keep cred high enough to have reserve for the Void Trader.

Now we even have Sindicate but sadly they even cant contribute to gain cred thx to the restriction by able not sell the large refill bp.

And why the hell should i keep 400 Orokin cell & 5000 Cotrollmodules & milions of other resourses and dont have the option to sell them ?

 

Shure now is 2* cred weekend & i gain 4 milion but this shiet just hold up 2 week then iam broke again  when the void trader arrived again. There must be a better solution for this.

 

Either reduce the modding cost or boost the cred reward to its earlyer state: 50k for Grineer/ Corpus invasion, T2 Cap 50k, Darksektor 20k this were real reward what makes your player happy & keep them  to playing, now a day DE you just Piersst of a ton of players with this stupid non rewarding grind

Edited February 23, 2015 by 1N33DM0N3Y

[Loswaith]

... I made 9 million credits and 2000 Ducats today alone.  ...

This really only tells about a quater of the story and misses important information like:

- How long did it take? (after all not everyone can spend more than a few hours a day playing the game, and if you spent the 10-16hrs like the OP it makes a huge difference than for someone that can only play 1-3 hrs in a day)

- Did you already have keys? (key gathering adds more time if you spent 4 other days getting keys that makes a major difference)

- Which missions were run? (earning potential can change with missions/luck, especially if consols dont have the ducat sell price reduction yet)

- Did you have dedicated groups to play with? (a dedicated group can mean alot less keys used per individual, thus reflecting keys, also a faster turn around for missions played)

- Did you buy parts? (given you can buy many prime parts for 1p each, you can actually gather ducats quickly if you want)

Edited February 23, 2015 by Loswaith

[NocturneOfSolace]

This really only tells about a quater of the story and misses important information like:

- How long did it take? (after all not everyone can spend more than a few hours a day playing the game, and if you spent the 10-16hrs like the OP it makes a huge difference than for someone that can only play 1-3 hrs in a day)

- Did you already have keys? (key gathering adds more time if you spent 4 other days getting keys that makes a major difference)

- Which missions were run? (earning potential can change with missions/luck, especially if consols dont have the ducat sell price reduction yet)

- Did you have dedicated groups to play with? (a dedicated group can mean alot less keys used per individual, thus reflecting keys, also a faster turn around for missions played)

- Did you buy parts? (given you can buy many prime parts for 1p each, you can actually gather ducats quickly if you want)

He abused a cred booster and double credit weekend, so he's twisting statistics around to make his point

[Aspari]

to all "you don't need it"

He is a player and he is allowed to enjoy content put forward by the developers, if something is released it IS Content, and therefor all players should be able to realistically achieve it, as the OP has shown Primed mods' requirements are Unrealistic.

Though he doesn't need it, That's no reason for the Devs to make a sloppy grind wall and call it done. 

Quoted for truth.

[SoyMalone]

Where is that -1 button again.. its like a broken record in here.

 

You miss the entire point again. Which is, people should be actually able to get everything and max everything if they have been paying and playing hard enough.

 

You seem to think i 'alone' am crying about something that i 'just me' want.  Not at all, the vast majority of people who +1'd this topic agree. We 'that is the overwhelming majority' want it to actually be possible to stay up to date 'and complete' the content that is given to us, before more is released 'and we are unable to keep up'

 

If it is impossible to stay 100% in this game (from whenever you started), you will find a lot of people, quitting.

 

My 'our' arguement is entirely constructive 'as i even showed you WHY it is impossible'.

 

People slightly like yourself trying to make the rediculous claim that this topic is just a minority 'crying' is what is not an arguement, and is also not as you say a 'constructive' point.

 

I suggest you do not tell me 'and us' how we should or shouldnt be playing the game, with your condescending tone.

 

 

Ok, I see the issue here and it seems to come down to an understanding of language. 

 

You use the word impossible in the title and frequently to describe the main bulk of your problem. 

Impossible is used to describe something than can not happen, under any circumstances or over any length of time. People attempt a hard task and when they get fed up with their efforts they say "oh, this is impossible!" out of frustration. The fact is that maxing everything in the game is not impossible. There is a number of cores/mods that someone could go away and compile that would allow you to max every mod within the game to date. Sure as hell it would be a high number, but there is a theoretical number none the less. That, by definition makes describing the task as impossible to be false. 

 

 - Secondly, I have not (nor will I ever) assume that one player's problems are indicative of the whole player base, nor will I assume that one player is ever alone with how they are feeling.

 

I have not made that statement or implication in any of my posts whatsoever. 

 

In fact, the most true and reassuring thing you can say to someone when they are feeling down is that a great number of people have felt that way before, so they just need to be positive and strive on. 

 

You have invoked the will/opinion of a "great number" of people who play the game while citing the number of likes your post has received. As of writing your OP has received 360 likes. That isn't a small number per se but it comes with two problems.

 

-- As far as the player base goes it is a small number. That is assuming everyone who clicked agrees with your post 100% to the same degree you do (along with any subsequent clarifications.) At the time of writing there are 18,543 people currently in game on Steam alone (http://steamcommunity.com/app/230410). Therefore you potentially speak for a group of people, but you don't speak for the "overwhelming majority" by any means at all. (if you do the math you potentially speak for 1.941433% of the current online community who play via Steam.

 

--  This is the internet. People mouth off without justification and click upvote something that reinforces their own idea/disposition in life. You aren't starting a crusade, you are a storm in a teapot. You don't get to speak for everyone, and your presumption to the contrary is quite telling. 

 

The bottom line here is I have not insulted you or your opinions, but I have called your integrity into question when you've failed to deliver. While I'm at it I also haven't tried to tell you (or anyone else) how to play the game. (as you accuse me of doing.)

 

I have used respectful language throughout because doing otherwise diminishes your point. 

 

The fact that I disagree with your conclusions/viewpoint does not mean I'm insulting you in the process. 

 

The post that of yours that I have quoted not only quotes incorrect facts but shouts them while attacking my integrity and slights me personally. Even if I were doing all the things you falsely accuse me of doing that post is hypocritical. Everyone is free to check my post history and see for themselves. 

 

 

If you answer nothing else please answer this -

 

What are the positives and negatives of being able to max all emerging content before new content is released?

[SnakeWildlife]

Storm in a teapot....

 

Im honestly not going to read the rest. Because you arent interested in listening to anything anyone has to say when they do.

 

I am here to support people in finding balance, not to be insulted.

Edited February 23, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[SoyMalone]

I haven't insulted you once.

 

I have respectfully disagreed and pointed out why. If you find that to be insulting then I suggest you refrain from asking people for their opinion.

[letir]

You use the word impossible in the title and frequently to describe the main bulk of your problem. 

Impossible is used to describe something than can not happen, under any circumstances or over any length of time. People attempt a hard task and when they get fed up with their efforts they say "oh, this is impossible!" out of frustration. The fact is that maxing everything in the game is not impossible. There is a number of cores/mods that someone could go away and compile that would allow you to max every mod within the game to date. Sure as hell it would be a high number, but there is a theoretical number none the less. That, by definition makes describing the task as impossible to be false.

It's impossible for normal humans, who cannot dedicate whole life to the game.

 

Sure you can (in theory) grind 24/7, but usualy everybody have some basic things like sleep, food, work or even social life (sic!) and limited lifespawn.

Edited February 23, 2015 by letir

[SoyMalone]

It's impossible for normal humans, who cannot dedicate whole life to the game.

 

Sure you can (in theory) grind 24/7, but usualy everybody have some basic things like sleep, food, work or even social life (sic!) and limited lifespawn.

 

I am not saying everyone or indeed anyone can max every mod/frame/archwing that DE releases before the next one comes out - which is the OP's main want/point. 

 

In my first post I go into more detail about this. The only reason I made a point regarding his wording is because he kept saying things are impossible to do within the game eg earning Void Trader currency before each time he appears.

[Kasarian]

 

You have invoked the will/opinion of a "great number" of people who play the game while citing the number of likes your post has received. As of writing your OP has received 360 likes. That isn't a small number per se but it comes with two problems.

 

-- As far as the player base goes it is a small number. That is assuming everyone who clicked agrees with your post 100% to the same degree you do (along with any subsequent clarifications.) At the time of writing there are 18,543 people currently in game on Steam alone (http://steamcommunity.com/app/230410). Therefore you potentially speak for a group of people, but you don't speak for the "overwhelming majority" by any means at all. (if you do the math you potentially speak for 1.941433% of the current online community who play via Steam.

 

I'd like to point out that number of people who play the game at given time AND that are at the forum at the time OR visit forum AT ALL are two different things but if we consider that at least 5-10% people who play at all go on forums and will check feedback-general to check whats up, we have 360 upvotes out of  900-1800 players. True, this isn't overwhelming majority mentioned, ill give you that but I can also bet that nobody who just maxed out a mod will be as joyful about experience as for example beating Lephantis for the first time. Unless someone had a blast with grinding for cores. Anyway my point being that 360 out of 900-1800 means something, and then there's possibility of people either not reading the post because of the length or not upvoting because although they support it they see upvoting as useless or they just don't do that. Then again we can't be 100% sure how many would support this without huge voting and that isn't happening for various reasons, instead of taking it literally take it figuratively.

[SnakeWildlife]

SoyMalone, this is the last time i respond to you, because you are obviously not in a listening mood, and seem entirely focused on wanting to derail the thread and attack my character.

 

 

You aren't starting a crusade, you are a storm in a teapot.

 

I have called your integrity into question when you've failed to deliver.

 

Everyone is free to check my post history and see for themselves. 

 

That would suggest you don't care about this thread other than as a vent for your own frustrations and anything more deep than that isn't worth your effort to reply.

 

Your reply was to reduce it to "I want things to suit me" and you see that as a sufficient answer?

 

You insult me by saying i (we) am a storm in a teapot, you insult me by saying that i (we) have no integrity when you have nothing to display for your evidence as to how you can make up the impossible sums of currency, and you insult everyone for again accusing them of being a crybaby, i have checked for myself.

 

 

 

You use the word impossible in the title and frequently to describe the main bulk of your problem. 

Impossible is used to describe something than can not happen, under any circumstances or over any length of time.

The fact is that maxing everything in the game is not impossible.

That, by definition makes describing the task as impossible to be false. 

 

 

Oh it's entirely true.  But alright, ill bite!  Prove it....

 

Really, prove it.  So here is the normal persons scenario...lets say you have a job, and come home to do nothing but play Warframe until you go to sleep (even that's pretty hardcore). You probably have about 8 hours per day.

 

If at least 1 Primed Mod comes out every week...If you have a job, a real life and come home to carry on playing Warframe, you can somehow get enough time to farm 4,200,000 credits, 4000+ Mods, Farm for Void keys, Run those Void keys for 1100 Ducats. ALL IN <2 WEEKS?

 

No go on...please do tell.

 

If youre unable to, go troll elsewhere. Because the reaction you want, you arent going to get it here.

 

 

The fact that I disagree with your conclusions/viewpoint does not mean I'm insulting you in the process. 

 

The post that of yours that I have quoted not only quotes incorrect facts but shouts them while attacking my integrity and slights me personally.

 

 

You have been insulting me in the way you snidely word your responses, like you're above being wrong.

 

 

 

Even if I were doing all the things you falsely accuse me of doing that post is hypocritical.

 

 

 

If you accuse me (us) of being a hypocrite (which is again, pretty insulting seeing as you dont have a good reason why)

 

Then prove us all wrong or go away.

 

I grow tired of responses aimed at trying to attack my character. Which again, is not relevant to the topic, and again i repeat, there's no dirt under this rug.

Edited February 23, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[Dawn11715]

Well, I really think the prices of the prime trader are MEANT to be high.

I bet they are aware of the fact, that its impossible to get and max out all.

I bet they WANT us to carefully chose what we need to buy, what we need to rank up and how far we want to rank it.

Watching the development of this game since U7, it looks for me like DE simply doesnt want us players to have it all.

[SoyMalone]

SoyMalone, this is the last time i respond to you, because you are obviously not in a listening mood, and seem entirely focused on wanting to derail the thread and attack my character.

 

 

You insult me by saying i (we) am a storm in a teapot, you insult me by saying that i (we) have no integrity when you have nothing to display for your evidence as to how you can make up the impossible sums of currency, and you insult everyone for again accusing them of being a crybaby, i have checked for myself.

 

 

 

 

Oh it's entirely true.  But alright, ill bite!  Prove it....

 

Really, prove it.  So here is the normal persons scenario...lets say you have a job, and come home to do nothing but play Warframe until you go to sleep (even that's pretty hardcore). You probably have about 8 hours per day.

 

If at least 1 Primed Mod comes out every week...If you have a job, a real life and come home to carry on playing Warframe, you can somehow get enough time to farm 4,200,000 credits, 4000+ Mods, Farm for Void keys, Run those Void keys for 1100 Ducats. ALL IN <2 WEEKS?

 

No go on...please do tell.

 

If youre unable to, go troll elsewhere. Because the reaction you want, you arent going to get it here.

 

 

 

You have been insulting me in the way you snidely word your responses, like you're above being wrong.

 

 

 

Even if I were doing all the things you falsely accuse me of doing that post is hypocritical.

 

 

 

If you accuse me (us) of being a hypocrite (which is again, pretty insulting seeing as you dont have a good reason why)

 

Then prove us all wrong or go away.

 

Ok lets keep this simple. 

 

I have not insulted anyone. If you infer an insult from what I have written that was not my intent.

Storm in a teapot is an analogy to describe something that appears exaggerated compared to the overall importance of things. It is not an insult.

 

I have not said it is possible or feasible to level every piece of gear or mod to max before more are released. I merely said that you can max everything with enough resources so it is therefore possible to do.

 

I listed those figures as a small snapshot of the portion of Warframe's player base who have liked your post to add perspective. I don't know the exact number of people who would support you or not if you showed it to every player in the game and neither do you. 

 

As for my Insults and snideness I'm afraid that is something not coming from this end. I try and deliver my opinions in the the most articulated way I can so they can be better understood by anyone who wants to read them.

 

I called your posts hypocritical because they were being exactly that by the word's definition. I did not insult everyone who agrees with your OP by extension. 

 

I'm not here to prove people wrong, I wanted to discuss the viability of the current cycle of resources from gathering to expenditure. The fact that I pointed out inaccuracies in the OP doesn't mean I want to prove everyone wrong - it means I want to have a discussion without using factual inaccuracy as a base.

[TerrorofDeaths]

again complain

nobody force you to buy  prime mods and you dont have to have all mods

if  the change  that to rank 10 rank max need only let say 100 r5 fusion core or less

and prime ones 200

everybody will get them fast ranked

and that will ruin trading even more

 

this game need some chalenge to get somemthing worth

and you need is  to farm it and grinding for it

not i play 2 weeks i wanna have all warframe  and all weapons in game

that will ruin game and people will leave game

 

challenge is needed

[Callback]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/404859-the-problem-with-rank-10-mods/

 

I proposed a change that still leaves fusion as a lofty goal, but one you can actually progress towards, and that a "no-life player" might even be able to keep up with.  Let me know your thoughts on my proposed formula change.

 

Any programmer worth his salt knows to avoid having a computer run through any O(2^n) time complexity at all costs.  Somehow DE's devs feel it's ok to force humans to do so manually?  Even for as small a maximum as 10, that's no way to treat a human's time.

[TerrorofDeaths]

i rank some mods   but i take my time to rank it

we are want high rank mods thats true

but this is not too much hard to get

play together with clan mates

grind together farm sommething

we need more stuff in game instead

more weapons

more tech to research

more sentinels

more kubrows

more waframes

 

i just play this game to take break from real world

each MMo has grinding 

geting everything fast you will get bored

[letir]

I am not saying everyone or indeed anyone can max every mod/frame/archwing that DE releases before the next one comes out - which is the OP's main want/point. 

 

In my first post I go into more detail about this. The only reason I made a point regarding his wording is because he kept saying things are impossible to do within the game eg earning Void Trader currency before each time he appears.

Yes, it is impossible, bcs Void Trader appers every two weak, and his stuff cost too much to bear.

[SoyMalone]

Yes, it is impossible, bcs Void Trader appers every two weak, and his stuff cost too much to bear.

I have been doing it between every time he has appeared. I play about 2-3 hours weekdays and 5 on weekends on average. I don't think that counts as hardcore time and I still manage so it certainly isn't impossible. Grindy and somewhat boring at times sure, but now that he has started to repeat items in his stock you will have chances to get things you might have missed.

[Callback]

I have been doing it between every time he has appeared. I play about 2-3 hours weekdays and 5 on weekends on average. I don't think that counts as hardcore time and I still manage so it certainly isn't impossible. Grindy and somewhat boring at times sure, but now that he has started to repeat items in his stock you will have chances to get things you might have missed.

You're getting 528 r5 cores, 350 ducats, and 2,000,000 credits every 20-25 hours of play?  Please do tell how such a thing is managed.

[letir]

I have been doing it between every time he has appeared. I play about 2-3 hours weekdays and 5 on weekends on average. I don't think that counts as hardcore time and I still manage so it certainly isn't impossible. Grindy and somewhat boring at times sure, but now that he has started to repeat items in his stock you will have chances to get things you might have missed.

If you playing as "new player", without stockpiles of keys, cores and credits, it's outright impossible.

[SoyMalone]

You're getting 528 r5 cores, 350 ducats, and 2,000,000 credits every 20-25 hours of play?  Please do tell how such a thing is managed.

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I didn't for a second suggest I can max his stuff every time he appears, merely afford to purchase them so that you have them in your inventory. 

 

I mostly group with clanmates to mutually farm and use keys to share. With the void credit bonuses and extra prime parts from sabotage it is certainly attainable between each appearance of the Trader.

 

I'm definitely not saying new players should be able to afford endgame mods and weapons, that would be terrible for the game's lifespan when many people's goals are set by what they are going to loot/max out next. That's the point of Primed Mods/Frames/Weapons and even corrupted mods. They are things generally meant to be acquired towards what we currently perceive to be end game to maximise the output of the game's equipment. 

 

If new players (in any game with Warframe's business model) were able to access top level gear from the beginning the game would fail, and fail quickly.

If people never want something then they will never be motivated to buy it = no Warframe.

[ViolettaFoxx]

100% agreed completely all the time EVERY TIME. 

 

 

I am a founder as well and a huge completion-ist for this game but even being a normal player this wall of grind is just.. overwhelming.

[Callback]

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I didn't for a second suggest I can max his stuff every time he appears, merely afford to purchase them so that you have them in your inventory. 

 

I mostly group with clanmates to mutually farm and use keys to share. With the void credit bonuses and extra prime parts from sabotage it is certainly attainable between each appearance of the Trader.

 

I'm definitely not saying new players should be able to afford endgame mods and weapons, that would be terrible for the game's lifespan when many people's goals are set by what they are going to loot/max out next. That's the point of Primed Mods/Frames/Weapons and even corrupted mods. They are things generally meant to be acquired towards what we currently perceive to be end game to maximise the output of the game's equipment. 

 

If new players (in any game with Warframe's business model) were able to access top level gear from the beginning the game would fail, and fail quickly.

If people never want something then they will never be motivated to buy it = no Warframe.

You're missing the point tho.

 

Yes, a casual player can keep up with buying the base mods from the void trader.  That's not the issue here.

 

It doesn't matter if they're primed or just rare.  It doesn't matter if they come from a trader, drop tables, or an event.  The fact is, 10 rank mods are not feasible to rank within the update schedule of the game.