Vargras Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 it needs that power....and we need more weapons on this level, especially with raids comming. You really don't, though. Enemies are going to be level 80 -- against 8 Tenno, they're not going to last long at all. At no point are you going to need anything on the Gammacor's level. And if you really did need weapons that strong, why is it the only one like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaver_X Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) You really don't, though. Enemies are going to be level 80 -- against 8 Tenno, they're not going to last long at all. At no point are you going to need anything on the Gammacor's level. And if you really did need weapons that strong, why is it the only one like that? because most end game weapons have yet to catch up. and TBH the new raids should drop bp's for weaps of this caliber. at the very least, the only nerf i could agree with is making its range 10 meters max. just reading all this is giving me a headache, If the OP made this thread in favor of nerfing i would have quit it already -__-. Edited March 2, 2015 by Reaver_X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 because most end game weapons have yet to catch up. and TBH the new raids should drop bp's for weaps of this caliber. That's so not a good idea. More weapons like this are the last thing we need right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 because most end game weapons have yet to catch up That's not a good thing. Keep in mind that the Synoid Gammacor was kinda bad at release, and it was only the subsequent buffs that made it too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaver_X Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 whatevs, i've said my piece, im done. aside from range, its DPS should stay the same. And thats all i have left to say about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibikiGanaha Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Now you are pretending like all the arguments explaining how Gammacor is a better weapon regardless of DPS despite its range limit didn't exist? please No? I've never ignored those arguments. If you reread my first post, the very last line says "It is very good within it's range, very bad outside of it's range." How is stating what makes it good inside of it's range an argument against the second half of that statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faulcun Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 You really don't, though. Enemies are going to be level 80 -- against 8 Tenno, they're not going to last long at all. At no point are you going to need anything on the Gammacor's level. And if you really did need weapons that strong, why is it the only one like that? Now you are pretending like all the arguments explaining how Gammacor is a better weapon regardless of DPS despite its range limit didn't exist? please How about everybody else ignoring the fact that there are dozens of weapons that are capable of dealing with lvl 80+ enemies on a regular basis.... The gammacor is not special in this regard.... it is NOT the only powerful weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
as3mbus Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 it's ammo efficiency is too damn high for a high DPSi'll compare it with another beam-like gun, flux riffle (ammo eating machine), synapse (ammo eating electricity), spectra (short ranged laser [need augment]). glaxion (need lowered fire rate).in my opinion even with it's limited range it still OP.tell me how many ppl not using this gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatzeputt Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Reduce Range to 12-15m that should stop the whining. Everything else is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolake Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 How about everybody else ignoring the fact that there are dozens of weapons that are capable of dealing with lvl 80+ enemies on a regular basis.... The gammacor is not special in this regard.... it is NOT the only powerful weapon. And Synoid is ~twice more powerful then those already OP weapons, see a problem now? if other weapons didn't trivialise the game already making it boring for 40+ minutes till the very high levels. The game balance is utterly broken and we are just sitting here talking with ourselves about the imbalances that DE prefers to ignore, instead of actually playing the game fighting the challenge - because there is none. It's even hilarious. In other game we would be talking more how to optimise our builds and tactics to beat some hard high-level mission or boss. But in WF most of the topics are about how stuff is brokenly-overpowered. And if weapon of frame is not OP then its regarded as useless crap. I've never seen a multiplayer game like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) How about everybody else ignoring the fact that there are dozens of weapons that are capable of dealing with lvl 80+ enemies on a regular basis.... The gammacor is not special in this regard.... it is NOT the only powerful weapon. Name them. I'm eager to see what else can match a secondary like the Synoid Gammacor. Edited March 3, 2015 by Vargras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcson Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Idk what anything on the 2nd and 3rd pages say, but: Volt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idiocy Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I dunno, Rakta Ballistica so strong now, I'd say it's a good contender for #1 secondary spot, mainly due to being mostly puncture damage and void being our only endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordel Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) In retort to the 8 man raids: 8 tenno is a massive DPS, utility, and supportive ball. 8 tenno is ALOT. All of the beams crossing (no pun intended) would leave even a level 80 dead within seconds. Everyone needs to keep in mind that the weapons are not balanced around endgame; they're balanced around the starchart which goes to approx. lv. 40(?) last time I took an in-depth stare at how weapons are made, and with proper modding combinations, only then can a weapon be used in endgame without gimmicks ie. radisarm or ravelin. The fact the SG can pump out damage makes it feel like it's balanced for endgame; the main issue with that is that the other syndweapons are not. Nor is any. Because it's one of few weapons that can deal damage that high and that quickly, and without that many restrictions. Its' range is too high. Approx. 15m is good if you guys want to keep that DPS. A damage nerf would cause an uproar in the cry threads, and we already see enough of those from scrubs that think they own Warframe. SG needs a range nerf, that's it. The large tilesets are not that high in density compared to smaller, more compact tiles. This makes the SG beneficial in itself, since its' one and only downside is partially mitigated. I may take this back when the water set comes out, but it's still important that the SG gets looked at. It's becoming the new acrid brakk soma go-to weapon for high level content. Edited March 3, 2015 by Ordel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akira_him Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Did you guys see how huge the raid map is in the devstream? 25m range is now a real disadvantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibikiGanaha Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Did you guys see how huge the raid map is in the devstream? 25m range is now a real disadvantage I have not, but this just solidifies my argument even further. The only possible argument against the range so far was "players don't play on big tiles." It's a pretty weak argument. Every defense tile has at least one >25m los (not including eris). Excavation tiles generally have multiple >25m los. Survival also has large tiles, but players choose to camp on the smaller ones. Interceptions have >25m los between points but are generally <25m skirmishes around points. Now with raids coming with massive tiles, this argument doesn't hold much water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) I have not, but this just solidifies my argument even further. The only possible argument against the range so far was "players don't play on big tiles." It's a pretty weak argument. Every defense tile has at least one >25m los (not including eris). Excavation tiles generally have multiple >25m los. Survival also has large tiles, but players choose to camp on the smaller ones. Interceptions have >25m los between points but are generally <25m skirmishes around points. Now with raids coming with massive tiles, this argument doesn't hold much water. The entire "25m range is a weakness" argument operates under the assumption that players will stand completely still while firing. Most people with Synoid Gammacors will just run up to mobs so they can shoot. It's a non-issue, and it shouldn't serve as the only balancing point, which is what we've repeatedly tried to tell you. In addition, as someone else mentioned in this topic several pages back, why even make this topic if you truly think the Synoid Gammacor is balanced? Did you think you were going to change everyone's minds? Edited March 4, 2015 by Vargras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibikiGanaha Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 The entire "25m range is a weakness" argument operates under the assumption that players will stand completely still while firing. Most people with Synoid Gammacors will just run up to mobs so they can shoot. It's a non-issue, and it shouldn't serve as the only balancing point, which is what we've repeatedly tried to tell you. In addition, as someone else mentioned in this topic several pages back, why even make this topic if you truly think the Synoid Gammacor is balanced? Did you think you were going to change everyone's minds? That assumption was never made anywhere. I even talk about moving to hit enemies in the first post. There is zero consistency in your posts. You repeatedly make sweeping, blanket statements that have no backing. How is running up to a mob a non-issue in any level of play? In low level play, anything with more range can kill things before you even reach it to deal damage. In high level play, you don't want to be near high level mobs, barring nova/loki map lockdown. What I've tried repeatedly to tell you is that range is a very important stat for guns. If you are out of range, you deal NO damage. Last time I checked this was the feedback forum where you post feedback. Also last time I checked, saying something is in a good place is feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faulcun Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Name them. I'm eager to see what else can match a secondary like the Synoid Gammacor. It isnt about matching the gammacor.... its about doing the same effective job of bringing you to a point where 90% of the player base cannot follow, let alone reach to begin with. But, in no specific order: Boltor prime latron prime latron wraith opticor supra amprex glaxion ignis quanta synapse drakgoon hek kohm phage strun wraith lanka snipetron vandal vectis attica dread paris prime ogris penta torid angstrum acrid marelok vaykor marelok stug brakk mara detron dex furis akzani twin wraith vipers castanas sancti castanas despair hikou prime kunai grinlok I know for sure im leaving some out. These are merely weapons that I have used, or people in my group have used to bring us to an hour in a T4 survival. My point is, the point at which the gammacor really makes a difference is at a level that the majority of people cannot reach to begin with. Just because it has the potential to go further for longer doesnt matter if you cant get there in the first place. Edited March 5, 2015 by Faulcun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 It isnt about matching the gammacor.... its about doing the same effective job of bringing you to a point where 90% of the player base cannot follow, let alone reach to begin with. But, in no specific order: Boltor prime latron prime latron wraith opticor supra amprex glaxion ignis quanta synapse drakgoon hek kohm phage strun wraith lanka snipetron vandal vectis attica dread paris prime ogris penta torid angstrum acrid marelok vaykor marelok stug brakk mara detron dex furis akzani twin wraith vipers castanas sancti castanas despair hikou prime kunai grinlok I know for sure im leaving some out. These are merely weapons that I have used, or people in my group have used to bring us to an hour in a T4 survival. My point is, the point at which the gammacor really makes a difference is at a level that the majority of people cannot reach to begin with. Just because it has the potential to go further for longer doesnt matter if you cant get there in the first place. In short, the weapon is needlessly powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akira_him Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The entire "25m range is a weakness" argument operates under the assumption that players will stand completely still while firing. Most people with Synoid Gammacors will just run up to mobs so they can shoot. It's a non-issue, and it shouldn't serve as the only balancing point, which is what we've repeatedly tried to tell you. In addition, as someone else mentioned in this topic several pages back, why even make this topic if you truly think the Synoid Gammacor is balanced? Did you think you were going to change everyone's minds? They need to stand still in raid, the whole puzzle thing, just watch it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faulcun Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 In short, the weapon is needlessly powerful. Not quite that either. There are some people who can make very good use out of that weapon at a level it can shine at. My point here is that the level of enemies that would make the argument in this thread valid about weapons in general that are considered "end game" is probably not being reached by the majority of people here. Therefore, this thread is simply asking for a weapon, or weapons, to simply become useless.... sooner... which solves what problem exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) In short, the weapon is needlessly powerful. It's time for some hardcore missions that start at later waves/rounds/minutes, etc. or else it would remain boring even if this weapon is nerfed. Edited March 6, 2015 by Jinryusai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordX2 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The whole argument that "25m is a disadvantage is utterly bs. I had to say it. I'm not sure if you are aware of how much is 25m in-game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The entire "25m range is a weakness" argument operates under the assumption that players will stand completely still while firing. Most people with Synoid Gammacors will just run up to mobs so they can shoot. It's a non-issue, and it shouldn't serve as the only balancing point, which is what we've repeatedly tried to tell you. In addition, as someone else mentioned in this topic several pages back, why even make this topic if you truly think the Synoid Gammacor is balanced? Did you think you were going to change everyone's minds? The entire "25m range is a weakness" argument operates under the assumption that players will stand completely still while firing. Most people with Synoid Gammacors will just run up to mobs so they can shoot. It's a non-issue, and it shouldn't serve as the only balancing point, which is what we've repeatedly tried to tell you. In addition, as someone else mentioned in this topic several pages back, why even make this topic if you truly think the Synoid Gammacor is balanced? Did you think you were going to change everyone's minds? Why even bother create more pages when this argument is going no where? Don't think anyone has changed their opinions in the many pages nor shall they, this is as endless and pointless as them pay2win arguments. You are better off arguing with the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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