This Was Very Poorly Designed Around Players With Arsenal Full Of Mods And Proves That Raids Consisting Of Lvl80 Enemies Isnt A Good Idea.

[Deruser]

Looking at this post, I want to ask something. Anyone tried soloing the Escalation alert? I know it's possible with Loki and maybe Valkyr. But anyone tried it with Excal, Nova, Nyx?

[DrCrawford]

nope, don't agree with the OP on this one. The TA was just a specific challenge, not reflective of the raids incoming, nor can we assume they are since they haven't even come out yet.

 

You can't see a specific mission and just make a supposition about content we don't have yet. Gotta wait till it comes out first. Not jump to conclusions.

Are there concerns about the upcoming raids? Yes, are they justified? We don't know yet. Maybe not, maybe they are. But the OP is just another chicken little saying the "sky is falling".

 

As for the TA, i quite enjoyed it. Felt much more like a Co-Op mission than most of the other missions in Warframe imo.

[SquirmyBurrito]

While i agree that OP covered only 1 setup and i chosen this specific setup for its reliability, if you manage to get everything mentioned theres nearly no possibility of this failing, i simply couldnt cover all possible setups and i believe using general terms wouldnt get the strong enough message.

 

Also thread name was different before de persauded me to use less offensive wording.

 

But there are so many other reliable setups. And the setup you listed could fail quite easily. One mistake on Loki's part and a Napalm could oneshot the entire squad. Adding a Limbo would make it more reliable. I honestly believe you should have worded the OP in such a way that it wouldn't come across as 'you need this to win'. Maybe just stick with the bits on CC being key?

 

I didn't actually read the thread name in its entirety. I just read up to the bit about lvl 80 enemies. I didn't quite get why you were bringing up the TA being designed around fully modded players like it was a bad thing. Isn't that what you'd expect when you see a 100-150 level range?

 

Oh and just figured I'd address something I've seen spread throughout the thread: Perma Invis Loki isn't immune to damage. Napalm splash damage, general hitscan crossfire, those flame walls that the eximus units can conjure up, there were so many ways to take damage and as a Loki you're too squishy for that. Same goes for Radial disarm builds, enemies can hit you with their batons.

[Demiax]

New TA ofc, what else.

 

Whats wrong with it??

1) got loki??

2) got 4 corrosive proejctions??

3) got fully modded scindo or galantine with viral build??(viral helps alot, not necessary though)

4) got enough energy restores or trin??

5) got some slow nova or vortex vauban

 

If you fulfilled 5 above requirments you can enjoy mindlessly slashing enemies which cant retaliate because if they somehow manage to retaliate, you are dead.

 

Thats what this new TA represents and that is how raids are gonna look like, except step 3, it will be replaced with something else.

Only 3k, less than 1% of all players managed to clear it so far, rest either dont care, isnt around or dont have enough gear to fulfill 5 step program.

 

It aint hard, its just stupid.

 

Edit: ppl i know you could probably ignore everything above, bring 4 valkyrs or perma invis lokis and still make it, 5 step program is just surefire way for any group, still some hard cc, perma invis or hysteria is needed.

I did it with my buddies with level 20 weps. It was pretty easy for me...

[Meganin]

Just look at the several posts about this, few people used the same formula, hell my team was a limbo, a banshee, a nyx and a nekros and we did alright. I know of people who did this with excals and ashes and people already solo'ed this. Its not difficult, its about knowing how the game works and having a coordinated team.

[Reaver_X]

i think this challenge is stupid, at first i thought it was a glitch in the missions having super high lvld enemies, they really need to just bring it back down, or make it so that we can use other weapons.

[Vargras]

i think this challenge is stupid, at first i thought it was a glitch in the missions having super high lvld enemies, they really need to just bring it back down, or make it so that we can use other weapons.

It was originally a bug, and was fixed in the main alert.

 

Some players liked the higher levels, so they brought it back as its own thing and made it seperate. It's completely doable.

[Malindros]

I loved this Tac Alert, it forced me to figure out the best combination and blaze through it.  I think it was a resounding success!

[-Narauko-]

Trin, Loki, Rhino and Ash...and no Corrosive Projection. Was easier than Draco :s

[Reaver_X]

the problem i have is that u have to melee them....if u could shoot i'd be ok with this, but as it stands, melee isnt strong enough to deal with that kinda stuff, u gotta have a good team to make it work. even then its still stupid.

[Vargras]

but as it stands, melee isnt strong enough to deal with that kinda stuff, u gotta have a good team to make it work.

That's the point.

[Rakshal]

Completely agree.

[wo1verin3]

Okay...
So...
If you dnt like it ...
Then Don't play it.....

Simple....

 

PS : Although, it was so easy for the vet players,saw quite a few amusing combinations..
It was quite enjoyable to me personally, as i didn't have to wait an hour worth of t3-4 to get to those 100+ lvl  enemies...
I wish this was a permanent sort of a thing, go in mission select level 100+ and kill dem as long as you like....then again its just me....

[Xanthis]

Here's my experience with this alert.

 

I've tried it, I've failed. Public groups disband the second someone goes down, regardless of how many enemies there are or are not. Every attempt so far has ended in Mission Failure. This is not a mission for public groups. This is a mission for synergism and stratagems. This is a mission for a clan team well-versed in high level combat. Not everyone has access to these groups and resources, those people are likely the major naysayers.

 

I see it this way. Artificial difficulty should not be "endgame content". Restrictions can be challenging yet fun, but they do have a tipping point. A few frames are severely lacking in usefulness at these levels, that should be addressed. As for this particular alert, I do not see myself getting the Rift Emblem, but that does not make me a noob, simply a player who knows when he is not going to achieve a goal.

[AdunSaveMe]

Yep./

 

which is why they are being marketed as endgame content

 

in fact. look at what is needed to beat any raid in any game. Check the strats and you'll see that they have reccommened gear, abilities, characters, levels, even where you are suppose to be.

 

Raids arent for new folk.

Or folk that like things easy

 

They, and this TA are geared towards people saying they need and want a challenge. But hey, every challenge is just a puzzle, once you find a solution that works, and you apply it... the challenge is gone, because you defeated it.

 

If you hate it. Dont play it.

Im still having a blast figuring out what works and what doesnt here for escalation.

Except stuff like WoW doesn't say that you aren't allowed to use a certain class. Or a certain ability setup. Or a certain combination of classes in the group. It has recommended setups, but nothing you need, aside from the usual amounts of healers, tanks and DPS (because let's not forget how different the game is to Warframe); it's designed around having a number of these three types of classes, but everything else is choice.

 

Then you have stuff like Destiny. If you want to do those raids with six hunters, or six warlocks or six titans, you can. Why not have a bladedancer bonanza? Hell, you can even SOLO the second raid if you're clever enough (or cheesy enough).

 

This is the opposite. You NEED CC. You NEED impenetrable shields or invulnerability. You NEED specific mods. Because this game relies on higher health and damage and nothing else. Even Destiny (which almost takes all the cakes for having the lamest bullet sponge bosses in a new game I've ever seen) allows for freedom.

 

In WoW (again, a different game, but apparently the comparison is warranted just cos 'it has raids') you need a certain amount of dps, tanks and healers and that's it. Pretty much everything else is dodging stuff, knowing your class and knowing where to be.

 

As the 'difficulty' goes up in this game, choice goes down. That's just my opinion, anyway.

 

Also, "if you don't like it, don't play it" is a bit silly. If everyone did that, they'd never get any real feedback.

Edited March 1, 2015 by AdunSaveMe

[RiouHotaru]

OP forgets that in this TA you were limited to JUST a heavy blade.

 

In the raid you're clearly allowed the full range of equipment.  Expect to see things like status weapons galore, because yes, at level 80 damage falls off hard, but status is forever and my Torid with an 80% status chance loves the opportunity to make people weep.

[RiouHotaru]

I can see how the TA illustrates a fundamental issue with balance between frames and damage, but I do not see how this should be against raids. Raids are specifically meant to be, seemingly, the most end-game system we will have.

Balance between frames needs adjusting more than raids need a rethink.

 

This TA doesn't illustrate anything of the sort.  You're forced to narrow your builds to very specific things and forced to think outside the box.

 

My team was Nova, Mesa (me), Loki, and Zephyr.  How did we win?  Nova M-Primed to slow them, Loki disarmed them, and then the entire team ran around doing JUMP Attacks to drop the enemy on their &#! so they couldn't do anything until we got to 100% and then finished off who remained.

 

This whole strategy technically only needed two frames (Loki and Nova) who by default render most content a cake-walk anyway.  But this doesn't illustrate any issue with frames.

 

Playing a challenge mode at an anorexic 400 Conclave isn't the same was playing with a full compliment of gear.  At 400 Conclave there's of course going to be issues with who's capable of what.  But 400 Conclave is not a good baseline for establishing "balance", especially not with a restriction of "Heavy Blade Only"

[LABAL]

This TA has nothing to do with Raids.

And copper turning blue has nothing to do with chemistry. And rain has nothing to do with water.

[Davoodoo]

But there are so many other reliable setups. And the setup you listed could fail quite easily. One mistake on Loki's part and a Napalm could oneshot the entire squad. Adding a Limbo would make it more reliable. I honestly believe you should have worded the OP in such a way that it wouldn't come across as 'you need this to win'. Maybe just stick with the bits on CC being key?

 

I didn't actually read the thread name in its entirety. I just read up to the bit about lvl 80 enemies. I didn't quite get why you were bringing up the TA being designed around fully modded players like it was a bad thing. Isn't that what you'd expect when you see a 100-150 level range?

 

Oh and just figured I'd address something I've seen spread throughout the thread: Perma Invis Loki isn't immune to damage. Napalm splash damage, general hitscan crossfire, those flame walls that the eximus units can conjure up, there were so many ways to take damage and as a Loki you're too squishy for that. Same goes for Radial disarm builds, enemies can hit you with their batons.

Players having full arsenal to enjoy endgame, its ok i guess as general concept. but i believe that needing 1000 hours or 1000$ spent to enjoy endgame simply locks out too big part of community, then we also have specific frames and auras, when i tried to pug this there were few mr18 guys who simply didnt have loki vauban and cp because they didnt buy slots for them or havent been during alerts.

 

Entry lvl should be high for raids, but it sholdnt involve months of grind or huge paywall.

 

 You're forced to narrow your builds to very specific things and forced to think outside the box.

No, since 1st TA we veterans explicitly said that, limiting conclave doesnt work as even with 400 cc we can bring fully modded frame and 1 fully modded weapon.

 

Yes it cuts our choice to more reliable weapons which wont run out of ammo while being effective at any range but it doesnt force us to remove even 1 mod.

 

Total dps lost due to this limit equals whatever your sentinel could do.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Haukai]

I really do think that most of you guys need to chill the fawk out.

1 - We've got a huge side of players assimilating this Tactical Alert to upcoming Raids considering it will be exactly the same.. Just no.
2 - Then we've got most of the "git gud" part of players, which I will admit, I agree with to some extent¹
3 - And we've got people giving us their amazing setup to run the Tac Alert.

Why am I saying you all need to chill ?

1 - A member of DE confirmed it, and it has been explained many times, this Tac Alert HAD. NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. UPCOMING. RAIDS.
2 - You guys are just are just making it worse, we get it, you completed the Alert, all my kudos to you.
3 - The Alert is doable with pretty much any freaking frame, so giving us your lucky/best setup won't change anything. I think we got the point when we read the 106th comment about which setup you used.

¹On a side note, just quickly thinking without even checking all of the warframes because I'm sure I'm missing some, this Alert (level 100+ part of it) is SOLOABLE with the following frames :
- Ash (Invis build)
- Banshee (Max range, Max efficiency low duration Sonic Boom/Silence/Sound Quake build)
- Ember (Accelerant + Fire Blast with Augment build)
- Excal (Rad Blind + Rad Jav build)
- Limbo (Rift Walk + Rift Surge build)
- Loki (Invis + Disarm + Switch teleport build)
- Mirage (Disco ball stun build + HoM and Eclipse as safety/damage boost)
- Valkyr (Hysteria + Rip Line build)
- Vauban (Bastille the whole fawking map build)

So imagine if you combine more than 2 of these.
But then again, such noob Alert, much Loki + Nova, everyone that succeeded it is lame, we all scrubs, wow. /s

Edited March 1, 2015 by Haukai

[Davoodoo]

1 - A member of DE confirmed it, and it has been explained many times, this Tac Alert HAD. NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. UPCOMING. RAIDS.

Oh but it does, high lvl enemies is what connects these 2, if high lvl enemies and ability exploitation is broken on 1 mission why would it work better on another one.

 

This problem is as old as endless scaling itself and should be dealt with already.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Haukai]

Oh but it does, high lvl enemies is what connects these 2, if high lvl enemies and ability exploitation is broken on 1 mission why would it work better on another one.

 

This problem is as old as endless scaling itself and should be dealt with already.

One will have level 80 enemies, the other one had level 130+ enemies. That's 50 levels of difference. Saying they're the same is as good as saying that level 30 is the same as 80, since there are only 50 levels of difference as well.

The level 130 enemies didn't one shot me with their electric stick when they were disarmed. Only enemies that one shot me when they had their guns were the OP ones, such as Heavy Gunners, Napalms and whatever the guys using the Miter are called.

So I doubt level 80s will be able to.

Endless scaling a problem ? What do you want then ? Level 20s enemies everywhere ? Such challenge, much diversity, wow.

[Davoodoo]

One will have level 80 enemies, the other one had level 130+ enemies. That's 50 levels of difference. Saying they're the same is as good as saying that level 30 is the same as 80, since there are only 50 levels of difference as well.

The level 130 enemies didn't one shot me with their electric stick when they were disarmed. Only enemies that one shot me when they had their guns were the OP ones, such as Heavy Gunners, Napalms and whatever the guys using the Miter are called.

So I doubt level 80s will be able to.

Endless scaling a problem ? What do you want then ? Level 20s enemies everywhere ? Such challenge, much diversity, wow.

If they can hit for 100% of our hp how does increasing that dmg by any amount changes anything.

Requirement to disable enemies is the problem.

 

Pretty binary way of thinking 1-something is 0-something isnt. Limiting your point of view to 1 possibility isnt gonna make for any improvement.

You can have endless scaling and high lvl enemies, but you shouldnt endlessly scale their dmg and damage reduction, since these things will quickly reduce players options.

or if you want to set high lvl enemies as baseline, scale us up to that lvl.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Marthrym]

One will have level 80 enemies, the other one had level 130+ enemies. That's 50 levels of difference. Saying they're the same is as good as saying that level 30 is the same as 80, since there are only 50 levels of difference as well.

The level 130 enemies didn't one shot me with their electric stick when they were disarmed. Only enemies that one shot me when they had their guns were the OP ones, such as Heavy Gunners, Napalms and whatever the guys using the Miter are called.

So I doubt level 80s will be able to.

Endless scaling a problem ? What do you want then ? Level 20s enemies everywhere ? Such challenge, much diversity, wow.

Except between a level 30 and 80 enemy, the scaling is much less vertical than it is between a level 80 and 130 enemy. Clearly you don't know how scaling works in WarGUNS. You should revise your copy mate. Sure level 80 enemies do less damage than level 130 ones. They still do a crapton of damage. So they won't one shot you. They will need what? 3 or 4 shots? Yay, HUGE difference, we're saved! People surely won't rely on "neutering" builds to completely mitigate any offensive capabilities the enemy has.

 

And using extremes only like you just did ("What do you want then ? Level 20s enemies everywhere?") is plain moronic. Especially when you try to defend a point of view. It just shows you're too "rigid" or voluntarily refuse to discuss, or even aknowledge that opinions that differ from yours have any value, or that you didn't read the posts, or understand them. Also you put words in other people's "mouths" (who the Hek talked about level 20 enemies? Only you mate. Not the best way to promote your argumentation). People ask for challenge, not stupidely high numbers and unfair mechanics. Make them punishing if we fail, that'd be good, but not arbitrarily take away gameplay options from our hands and then dare usher the word "challenge" to justify poor judgment.^^'

 

 

If they can hit for 100% of our hp how does increasing that dmg by any amount changes anything.

Requirement to disable enemies is the problem.

 

Pretty binary way of thinking 1-something is 0-something isnt. Limiting your point of view to 1 possibility isnt gonna make for any improvement.

You can have endless scaling and high lvl enemies, but you shouldnt endlessly scale their dmg and damage reduction, since these things will quickly reduce players options.

or if you want to set high lvl enemies as baseline, scale us up to that lvl.

Basically this.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Marthrym

[Tymerc]

nope nope.

 

 

clearly it wont proc that high,

you would get 4 corrosives, 4 regen, not 8.

dont be silly,

thats like the first thing thier gonna think of .

 

Where is your proof of this? Don't go telling me how it is when you have absolutely nothing backing your claim.