Why I Think Blade Storm Isnt Op

[Hypernaut1]

You're forgetting that Ash can regenerate energy while in Blade Storm and also pick up energy orbs via carrier.

Cause y'know, Ash is going to kill things. Banshee isn't

Also about the range again - post stated he has to sacrifice range, while in fact range isn't touched whatsoever.

range is sacrificed in that even though he can target 18 enemies, the range in which he does is limited. BS doesn't clear large rooms like some abilities can. He can clear close packed crowds. Edited March 2, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[rockscl]

it isnt even half the powerful it should be if it was a skill based ability and thus able to reward the faster shooters and the most proficient field tacticians for doing a respectable and admirable display of skill

Edited March 2, 2015 by rockscl

[MechaKnight]

At least Blade Storm has a limited target cap per cast and somewhat random selection of enemies. There are other abilities that indiscriminately target any and all enemies in a perfect spherical area that scales exponentially with range. The most major attribute Blade Storm has in comparison is hitting hard. It can also hit everything through walls without ever seeing the enemy target, but so can most radial abilities as they are in the game now.

Edited March 2, 2015 by MechaKnight

[VentiGlondi]

I run Vectis, Paris, Latron or Grinlok most of the time for a primary weapon. Does that answer your question?

 

I prefer to use all of the abilities of any Warframe, so maximizing Blade Storm will hurt skills like Smoke Screen and Teleport. Not good in my book...

 

Short of a T4 Survival, you don't need to do that much damage, so what's the point? Before you even get to that level, you will need to rely on CC to stop the baddies from killing you with one shot anyway and Sound Quake fits the bill better than Blade Storm.

I had a longer response to this post, but... darn.

I mean... you're right! What's the point of Blade Storm dealing this much damage? You don't even need to build for maximum power to kill things with it.

I don't even know if you're with me or against me anymore.

 

Also why did you go off-topic and bring guns into this thread, I don't get that.

[Hypernaut1]

https://warframe.com/news/numbers-warframe-powers

 

By the numbers- Warframe abilities. Notice how Bladestorm is absent from any of the top contenders? BS is NOT a problem in this game.

 

Some people say "Its damage is too high! unfair" yet, its not in the top 5 in kills or assist, not top in abilities used, Ash is not a top 5 used frame. The skill is balanced and it wont be touched as there is NO reason for them to change a thing. BS is not an abused ability.

[DCypherThis13]

~snip~

Also why did you go off-topic and bring guns into this thread, I don't get that.

The short answer: You questioned my ability to aim.

[Darzk]

Any player will tell you that a frames power lies more in their utility than their damage output, because utility scales incredibly well.

Utility scales better than damage mostly because armor greatly reduces the potential for damage to actually kill things. 

 

BS is powerful purely because the damage type is Finisher, which ignores armor and Shields. This makes it incredibly effective against armor. When fighting enemies without armor or with a team equipping 4x CP, it's not all that impressive compared to other ultimates because of the target cap and animation-time.

 

Where it does shine is killing high level armored enemies, because of the armor ignore. Add on to this the fact that Ash is the only frame which can remove enemy armor via the Seeking Shuriken augment, and he's easily one of the best frames at killing high level armored enemies. 

 

This means that Bladestorm, and Ash, really shine at long survivals and defenses against enemies with armor. 

 

Is an ability OP if it's only OP in a certain situation? I don't think so - it's effective in certain roles, and less effective in others. Bladestorm is, for example, terrible at killing low level enemies, compared to other ults. It's not all that effective in a repfarm role. It's not very effective at keeping enemies alive. That said, inside it's niche, it's extremely powerful at taking out high level armored enemies.

 

For example, an unmodded Radial Javelin would hit a level 100 Gunner for around 35 damage... youch. Bladestorm is hitting for 2k, and an additional 4.9k from the bleed... in total, over 197x the damage of RJ. And it can hit the same target multiple times. That's not a just 'more damage', it's a 'hell of a lot more damage'!

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Killing is ashs main purpose in fact. The shuriken augument effectively gets rid of armor, leaving any corpus defenseless. Same for corrupted units, adding a big dmg buff. This is without doubt his biggest stregth. The ultimate just adds a factor for shieldet units by doing slash procs.

The whole frame is build to attack enemy health, missing out on real defense. And his ultimate is slow. In fact the only slow damaging ultimate. "High numbers", cool story bro. The time it takes to get dmg going is pretty much enough for another frame to not only steal your kills but also get ~10 casts while you watch the show.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Asking for a nerv on him is sheer insanity. If a ash makes more dmg then your dmg frame, don't blame him but f❤cking learn to play your own frame. Easy as that.

[-InV-igo95862]

Blade Storm is so boring to use. You watch repetitive animations for 5-10 seconds every time you use it.

 

And it is very slow at dealing damage and it makes enemies invulnerable so that they can't be damaged by allies.

Edited March 7, 2015 by igo95862

[Duyet]

Press-4-to-win crowd, who doesn't want a nerf, says:

" It has a cap of 18 mobs."

" The damage drops off when mobs are level 1xx."

" Ash has no utlity."

" It's slow."

" You need to aim."

" Ash is a damage frame."

" It's a playstyle. Don't ruin it for others."

 

The other group says:

" It's boring."

" it's press-4-to-win."

" It's not interactive."

" It's too spammy."

[Nox-Lamina]

Press-4-to-win crowd, who doesn't want a nerf, says:

" It has a cap of 18 mobs."

" The damage drops off when mobs are level 1xx."

" Ash has no utlity."

" It's slow."

" You need to aim."

" Ash is a damage frame."

" It's a playstyle. Don't ruin it for others."

 

The other group says:

" It's boring."

" it's press-4-to-win."

" It's not interactive."

" It's too spammy."

 

It does have a limit of 18 enemies. Which is why it is not one of the most used abilities, it does not have the most kills or assists and Ash is not one of the most used frames.

 

Ash does have little utility

 

It is slow when dealing with very strong enemies.

 

Ash is a damage frame. Damage falls off over time(in endless modes), if a frame is damage focused and the damage falls off quickly it will see less favour than one whose damage does not, or whose damage is supplemented by utility. E.G Using Reckoning blinds some enemies that don't get killed, this is why people complain about mag's crush. Pure damage, little to no utility.

 

It is a playstyle, if people wish to be boring and spam let them. If you want to stop ability spam, do not treat the symptoms treat the cause. On the flip side I enjoy racking up melee hits to then remove a few squads from play. Am I more of an issue than the Excalibur or Saryn who just will everything around them out of existence?

 

It's boring - Subjective and playing infested defence with vauban and vortex is boring, that does not mean vortex must be nerfed, it means infested must be diversified.

 

It's press 4 to win. Treat the cause not the symptoms. Nerfing Bladestorm will never solve the problem. Also the fact that there are abilities with far more kills, assists, and uses than bladestorm due to the fact that it has an enemy cap suggests that there are bigger and more effective ways to press 4 to win. Again 18 enemies is not that many.

 

It's not interactive. The only ult that requires player input to kill enemies is Hysteria. Reckoning, Crush, Avalanche, Overload, Radial Javelin. Miasma. You press, things die. Radial disarm, M Prime. You press and the desired effect (disarming/priming enemies) happens.

 

When you try to make the stupid argument that M Prime involves shooting, I will ask you why it got changed from its original instant effect to what it is now. If shooting one enemy for all to explode is so engaging, why did the playerbase hate it so much?

 

It's too spammy. Treat the cause not the symptoms. Nerfing Bladestorm will never solve the problem.

 

You can't see the forest for the trees. People press 4 to win because it gets their goals done, people spam because it gets their goals done. Do you want an interactive bladestorm? It'd better have some utility/be very engaging to make up for the fact that it can't clear squads as quickly else people will not support it.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Ashs damage is scaling when you focus on the shuriken instead of this useless BS.

[Holeypaladin]

Bladestorm isn't overpowered.  Armor scaling is what's broken.  Always has been.

 

All enemies should have the same amount of armor at level 100 as they do at level 1.  Since they already have health and shield scaling, they don't need armor scaling to multiply on top of the existing health scaling.

[Thaumatos]

Blade storm is, as everyone knows, capable of insane amounts of damage that can kill eximus at level 100+. no other ability even comes close to this raw damage, this is where a lot of people start calling BS over powered and i have to disagree. 

 

You've self-destructed with this statement here.

 

 

Ash is a damage frame. 

Wrong.

 

Ash is a stealth frame.  Thats why he gets it as a power.  The only other frame that gets stealth (and arguably shouldn't even have it) is Loki.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Thaumatos

[Flamed]

Remember that one time when people asked for Ash buffs? We got this Bladestorm from it and I think it should stay.

 

Honestly, I think Bladestorm is one the few damage skills that works very well at high levels. It would be nice to see more abilities with damage scale into high levels instead of cc

[JayGideon1]

 

You've self-destructed with this statement here.

 

 

Wrong.

 

Ash is a stealth frame.  Thats why he gets it as a power.  The only other frame that gets stealth (and arguably shouldn't even have it) is Loki.

 

Is it a bad thing that an ability can reliable kill instead of having to rely on CC and utility? so the damage frame isnt supposed to be able to deal damage? 

 

and to address the second part, ash is a damage frame. He is stealth damage and Loki is stealth utility, very simple. this further reinforced by the fact that Ash has a V aura and two Vpolarities, which are mostly ever used for damage increase or power strength receptively , with the exception of continuity.

[Volume]

I feel like I have to weigh in on this due to the misconcepts.

 

Radial Jav / Miasma / Etc. are much better at "room-clearing" (and much quicker)

Not being able to choose what you're attacking is awful (hey, bladestorm felt like targetting these 30 enemies that are nowhere near the cryo pod / interception point / whatever)

 

 

 

Being invulnerable during the animation is nice, as is the unresistable damage, but there are some missions where there is more stuff than you can attack at the same time. Which means you can't slow them, stun them, blind them, or otherwise incapacitate the enemies, so your trinity or whoever is keeping your energy up is vulnerable, since you can't CC anything, except by killing it.

 

This is most notable on excavation, where you can be killing harder than anything, but still can't save the fragile extractors.

 

Other frames are better, tbh, but I still like my ash.

[Fundance]

'hitting hard' is an understatement.

Not only does bladestorm do incredible amounts of armor ignoring damage on hit, it also inflicts one of the biggest bleed procs in the game at a 100% chance AND boosts that damage further by adding to a melee counter.

Basically, Bladestorm doesn't need to be a CC ability because an enemy can't hit you when it's dead.

That said, it also does exactly what it's intended to do, and that's fine. It kills things which is something you can't really say about other ults in the game, which all fall off really hard against endgame enemies long before Bladestorm does.

IMO, what bladestorm needs to be balanced is a severe range reduction on the INITIAL CAST only. Make it into a close range ability. Force Ash to get into melee range in order to dish out that damage (high risk, high reward) because he certainly has the tools he needs to safely get into range. Invisibility and a to-enemy teleport. That way, he is rewarded for using his other skills smartly to get in, and can use Bladestorm to clean up.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Fundance

[Deios-Ken]

Ash BS is not OP, is only more effective than other ÜLTS at certain levels. His job is to KILL, can not really do more, and in any case you must know how to use him to see what I mean. And I dont speak to use BS continually, because every good player understands that it can be annoying to others.

When enemies become really strong, BS is not as effective as you think because its duration is directly proportional to the enemies' health bar, gives you only a little 'breathing, something that other Warframe can get through the use of their CC ability.

[rockscl]

i dont really care if this ultimate can kill a fomorian by itself, i just expect it to turn into a skill based mechanic, currently there`s zero skill involved, press 4 and wait till your milk shake is ready, why did we even learn to do anything else if at the end of the game we have this?

 

omg its only 18 kills!, cool so just press 4 again, this thing could do x10 times the damage it does if it was actually a skill based ability, look at good examples:

 

who cares how much damage can out put a decent yasuo player?, its more than clear that this chap will do nothing in the wrong hands, the complains were about how tanky he was when he was released, this is the same thing with ash, hes invulnerable while he kills by itself, invulnerable, and that requires only pressing 4, he takes the role of the player in finding targets, why do we need a skill that fulfills functions that are more than basic on the player side to simply play the game?, why do we learn combos, distance of gap closing mechanics, aiming, nature and risk of enemies if at the very end of the game we will not need any of these analogic skills?

 

ash´s ult isnt op, he just needs to split his power into a free 50% and other skill based 50%, allowing the 2nd 50% to reach further power in the hands of better players in the field, allowing to make a difference between a dude that took a guide from internet and bought all the stuff and other that is proficient in the analogic skills that this game embraced since rank 0

Edited March 9, 2015 by rockscl

[nekrojiji]

Blade storm is, as everyone knows, capable of insane amounts of damage that can kill eximus at level 100+. no other ability even comes close to this raw damage, this is where a lot of people start calling BS over powered and i have to disagree. 

 

Except Nova's Antimater Drop....

Edited March 9, 2015 by nekrojiji

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

You've self-destructed with this statement here.

Wrong.

Ash is a stealth frame. Thats why he gets it as a power. The only other frame that gets stealth (and arguably shouldn't even have it) is Loki.

Loki is a stealth frame. Evry single ability on a loki is set to confuse and vanish into the shadows with a long and power efficient version of stealth. Ash is set to attack health, with any mean nessesary. Vanishing just to give a strike.

He is probably supposed to be more stealthy, thats true. But he is not.

Edited March 9, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

I don't see a problem. Still the longest ability to execute on a frame with a low power base.

Edited March 9, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108