VoidNomade Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 See it as you want, i will do the same. It baffles me how you guys think that DE wanted people to max out absolute endgame minmax mods every 2 weeks lol. And that´s where i question myself why you don´t look at the picture and see the argument in it. The expectations of a designer don´t match in this case the expectations, the logic and the behavior of the user. You guys now argue in extremes. For me the abuse of egate only shows that there are certain flaws within the gaming design. Now you say those flaws doesn´t exist, infact you guys don´t even say that so directly. You´re doing this indirectly by stigmatizing and attacking the players that are doing this and say they want instant gratification - what a exaggeration don´t you think?. Could it be that they look at the design and say couldn´t this labyrinth of a walk way be a bit more "natural"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteoHatto Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) And that´s where i question myself why you don´t look at the picture and see the argument in it. The expectations of a designer don´t match in this case the expectations, the logic and the behavior of the user. You guys now argue in extremes. For me the abuse of egate only shows that there are certain flaws within the gaming design. Now you say those flaws doesn´t exist, infact you guys don´t even say that so directly. You´re doing this indirectly by stigmatizing and attacking the players that are doing this and say they want instant gratification - what a exaggeration don´t you think?. Could it be that they look at the design and say couldn´t this labyrinth of a walk way be a bit more "natural"? We are not seeing the same picture then, because of our differentiated self-defined and accepted "how much grind is enough grind" thresholds. That said, i think that "my threshold" is closer to what DE wanted than yours. Also, given the rarity and resources needed to get these mods should tell you that these are relatively long-term goals that developers set. These "flaws" you mention only exist for people who want to grind as much as possible, as quick as possible and with the least effort required. In other words instant gratification, lazy players who are actually bored of the game already but don't want to play anything else. Edited March 12, 2015 by kiteohatto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnthesteak87 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) THE ONLY WAY PEOPLE DEAL WITH CHANGES IN AN (animated)IMAGEhttp://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/crying-waterfalls.gifRemember you can't have everything like you would like to.The first step is stopping the leak, then work major changes to fix the problem, they can't hit the root problem in a single action. Edited March 12, 2015 by Burnthesteak87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingway Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I love how people actually go and defend the ammount of cores needed for most of these primed mods, most people don't even have time to farm S#&$ at a resonable pace and yet they go and say it's "intended design", but to me, it just feels like a really dumb way to increase longevity... not to mention the ammount of elitism it's gonna create when most people have those mods maxed and newer players are stuck with the normal ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingway Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) We are not seeing the same picture then, because of our differentiated self-defined and accepted "how much grind is enough grind" thresholds. That said, i think that "my threshold" is closer to what DE wanted than yours. Also, given the rarity and resources needed to get these mods should tell you that these are relatively long-term goals that developers set. These "flaws" you mention only exist for people who want to grind as much as possible, as quick as possible and with the least effort required. In other words instant gratification, lazy players who are actually bored of the game already but don't want to play anything else. I'd agree with you, but the game is nothing but grind at this point, even if you don't care about maxing out mods and such, at some point, you'll just be doing things to either: A- Farm ducats for new trader stuff, which will in turn give you an mod that requires an stupid ammount of cores to max, then you either go slow and keep it stuck at non maxed forever, or farm for cores running the same mission a million times because DE nerfs everything. B- Do the same missions for random stuff or something, because there's nothing else to grab. I myself have all the weapons pretty much, and ran out of stuff to find, did all nodes, did all that, so there's nothing more to do... I mean, at this point there's no longevity, even if you go slow on the supposed primed mods, and don't act like the supposed "lazy players" that you mentioned (more like people with common sense). I dunno, it just feels like you're trying too hard to justify your founder purchase. Edited March 12, 2015 by Ingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteoHatto Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) I love how people actually go and defend the ammount of cores needed for most of these primed mods, most people don't even have time to farm S#&$ at a resonable pace and yet they go and say it's "intended design", but to me, it just feels like a really dumb way to increase longevity... not to mention the ammount of elitism it's gonna create when most people have those mods maxed and newer players are stuck with the normal ones. People already treating legendary rank mods as mandatory and essential to have ? In a pve game, where there is no real advantage of doing more damage than somebody else it's just stupid to be "elite" about anything. It's not a creative way to prolong the game life i agree, but it's something at least. But, why do you have this "need" to max it out ? Why can't you just enjoy playing the game for action and let the loot/cores collect overtime ? I honestly don't understand this "i must max this before i can have fun playing" mentality. There is no point playing the game at the point. Edited March 12, 2015 by kiteohatto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFaul Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I love how people actually go and defend the ammount of cores needed for most of these primed mods, most people don't even have time to farm S#&$ at a resonable pace and yet they go and say it's "intended design", but to me, it just feels like a really dumb way to increase longevity... not to mention the ammount of elitism it's gonna create when most people have those mods maxed and newer players are stuck with the normal ones. Did you happen to be around when some mods were converted into legendary cores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 People already treating legendary rank mods as mandatory and essential to have ? In a pve game, where there is no real advantage of doing more damage than somebody else it's just stupid to be "elite" about anything. It's not a creative way to prolong the game life i agree, but it's something at least. But, why do you have this "need" to max it out ? Why can't you just enjoy playing the game for action and let the loot/cores collect overtime ? I honestly don't understand this "i must max this before i can have fun playing" mentality. There is no point playing the game at the point. The main point of the game is to farm to get stronger in every way. This game is a Third Person Instance Based Action RPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishki88 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 If baffles me how you missed, both, the important part in the picture and the underlying argument. Just wow. The forum is an amazing place. You would of thought everyone in their good mind would of got "it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteoHatto Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) The main point of the game is to farm to get stronger in every way. This game is a Third Person Instance Based Action RPG. Yes, and it happens overtime. People are just unhappy that it takes them longer than what they find "acceptable" in their minds. Instance based does not define or suggest the speed of your progression lol. Edited March 12, 2015 by kiteohatto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitomo Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I always found it insulting they mixed this nice shooter with a trading Card game only for creating addictions and endless Profit ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveNot Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) I couldn't help but find this saddening Edited March 12, 2015 by LoveNot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Yes, and it happens overtime. People are just unhappy that it takes them longer than what they find "acceptable" in their minds. Instance based does not define or suggest the speed of your progression lol. As I already said before, even if there were a magical alternate universe that gave 5 R5s every 5 minutes, it would still take 8.8+ hours of straight farming to max only one Primed mod. The only way you can disagree with this is if you think roughly 9 hours of farming in the perfect conditions is a short amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishki88 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I always found it insulting they mixed this nice shooter with a trading Card game only for creating addictions and endless Profit ... It's rather brilliant outside of a player aspect. They could be 100x richer by now if they had a few more "things." I still tihnk they should of waited in regards to releasing to console. I want to make a Blacklight (P3rfect W0rld) comparison but I'm too tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteoHatto Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) As I already said before, even if there were a magical alternate universe that gave 5 R5s every 5 minutes, it would still take 8.8+ hours of straight farming to max only one Primed mod. The only way you can disagree with this is if you think roughly 9 hours of farming in the perfect conditions is a short amount of time. Only 9 hours ? When people put 1k+ hours into the game and play 4+ hours at a time ? Are you for real ? Wow, that's pretty short for a legendary mod that makes normal version completely obsolete. If you play 1h a day then you only need 9 days to max it out. Seeing how the next prime mod comes out every 14 days that sounds more than reasonable to me. If you can't afford to put a lot of hours into the game to get the very best stuff that requires a lot of hours of gametime then you don't need these mods. Edited March 12, 2015 by kiteohatto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-InV-igo95862 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I'd prefer fun gameplay over AFK efficient farming simulator, kthnx. I really need to break down Diablo lead GDC talk in relation to Warframe Great video. This is what DE should learn from it: 1). Randomness is not replayability. Randomness removes fun from the game. 2). Game integrity is important. The game should be about game play not about efficiency. Diablo 3 was about shop not slaying monsters and getting loot. To translate it to warframe: Warframe should be about being a "space ninja" - parkour, stealth... not about sitting on a point and pressing skills to farm enemies. 3). You should be comfortable be generous. A player better get all the loot and leave the game happy because they will come back then you have an expansion or patch. If you are stingy and afraid to be generous they going to leave frustrated and think "this game has wasted my time". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Only 9 hours ? When people put 1k+ hours into the game and play 4+ hours at a time ? Are you for real ? Wow, that's pretty short for a legendary mod that makes normal version completely obsolete. The majority of players do not put in 1k+ hours or play 4+ hours at a time. Those who do work hard to put that much time into the game deserve what they worked for, and this is even in the perfect conditions. Though your response shows all that needs to be seen, no matter how large the grind is, you will advocate for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husla Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Even if you received 5 R5 cores every 5 minutes in a survival, it would still take you 8.83 hours of straight farming to max one Primed mod. Even in this impossible scenario, the grind is real. But in reality you would have to multiply that by 4 to get DE's real 25% chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteoHatto Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 The majority of players do not put in 1k+ hours or play 4+ hours at a time. Those who do work hard to put that much time into the game deserve what they worked for, and this is even in the perfect conditions. Though your response shows all that needs to be seen, no matter how large the grind is, you will advocate for it. If you'd stop seeing legendary mods as normal uncommons you would see where i am coming from lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJunior Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 You are asking for developers to let you burn through their content much quicker/easier. It's the same thing. AFK farming was an express highway and now that you've tasted it you can't go back to normal roads. Agreed. Like it or not this is a game revolved around farming. if you don't like that you are in the wrong game. Most of this game is made so that you progress slowly and naturally. You do not need to max out your new Primed mod or whatever right when you get it. It's also not how the game was designed to be played, as evidenced by the DE Team whenever they touch on these subjects in streams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grulos Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Only 9 hours ? When people put 1k+ hours into the game and play 4+ hours at a time ? Are you for real ? Wow, that's pretty short for a legendary mod that makes normal version completely obsolete. If you play 1h a day then you only need 9 days to max it out. Seeing how the next prime mod comes out every 14 days that sounds more than reasonable to me. If you can't afford to put a lot of hours into the game to get the very best stuff that requires a lot of hours of gametime then you don't need these mods. Well, of course 9 hours is too low. But currently it is more like 180 hours. 180 days with 1h/day just for maxing 1 effing mod? Superior gamedesign at every corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteoHatto Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Well, of course 9 hours is too low. But currently it is more like 180 hours. 180 days with 1h/day just for maxing 1 effing mod? Superior gamedesign at every corner. If you only play 1h a day then you don't need these mods straight away. This is like....i only want to do 5 minutes of weight lifting a day but i want to be ripped as hell in the same amount of time as the dude who lifts for 1h a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahadaya Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Mods that are suppose to take a long time to max are now going to take a long time? Gosh DE, those bastards. I don't see why DE should create a farming spot int he first place, as much as I abused Egate it was an exploit, i can sit and say Egate was something working as intended. Half of the effort of maxing mods is gaining that final rank. Rank 0-7 is very easy, just take your time for the rest. I hate people who use this argument. They act as if it didn't take a long &#! time to max Primed mods before the nerf. There's no justification to the current droprate if you actually think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishki88 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 My Contribution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 If you'd stop seeing legendary mods as normal uncommons you would see where i am coming from lol. This also goes for Rare 10 mods. I feel you've said all you can say by now, nothing else will help your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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