Folks, Your Synoid Is Fine. It Still Does Insane Damage.

[LazyKnight]

Well, let's see how strong enemies have to be before you get to that point.

The main point you brought up was the value (close enough to your post point) of primed mutation. The difference between it and the rare version would be a moot issue on Synoid. It's mainly due to the damage:ammo ratio verse average ammo pick-up rate. The difference between them is so bad, that RNG with sniper ammo pick-up would be the far larger factor.

 

 

I'm not sure exactly how to calculate the effective health of Grineer to find out their levels (with their armor and stuff). But, if you plan to go that far, you should be packing a full complement of Corrosive Projection anyways, which makes their effective health comparable to the Infesteds'.

The unarmed NPC are not the issue. The Void's NPC and the Grineer are the issue. Solo verse Group play is another longer topic, and suffice to say, Synoid's nerf affects people that solo voids far harder than it touched a group.

Edited March 22, 2015 by LazyKnight

[ShardsSuperior]

The main point you brought up was the value (close enough to your post point) primed mutation. The difference between it and the rare version would be a moot issue on Synoid. It's mainly due to the damage:ammo ratio verse average ammo pick-up rate. The difference between them is so bad, that RNG with sniper ammo pick-up would be the far larger factor.

 

 

The unarmed NPC are not the issue. The Void's NPC and the Grineer are the issue. Solo verse Group play is another longer topic, and suffice to say synoid nerf affects people that solo voids far harder than it touched a group.

Primed Ammo Mutation is almost twice as effective as normal Pistol Ammo Mutation. This isn't even subjective.

 

And I don't think ANYONE can agree that ANY weapon should be balanced for masochists who *solo* up to around level 100.

[Zynthe]

Just my personal opinion, I think most players who use/favor the Synoid Gamma aren't really pissed off about the nerf to the damage but more so about the change in mechanic/role of the weapon. In terms of DPS, coming from a player who uses it all the time, the Synoid was definitely overpowered without a doubt.

Pre-nerf Synoid was used as a sustained dps secondary. By changing the ammo consumption and the rate of fire, it was turned into a burst dps weapon (Such as the Amprex). This changed the entire way the Synoid was used/played with in the past.

 

Personally, I felt like if DE were to nerf the damage by 15/20% or put it on par with the DPS of the Telos/Vaykor/Rakta, it would be a more sensible nerf. Or perhaps just increased the ammo consumption to 4.5/5x instead of 7.5x (Which is overkill imo). Currently, I don't even feel like touching it because its no longer the super-cool lazer hand cannon I loved. DE listened when players complained about the Rakta, I hope they are willing to revert it to how it was used/played with a reasonable and required DPS nerf.

[LazyKnight]

Primed Ammo Mutation is almost twice as effective as normal Pistol Ammo Mutation. This isn't even subjective.

Are you missing the point deliberately? It does not matter, since neither can provided enough ammo from pick-up to take 1 second to kill a target. This is not something that is saying Primed ammo mutation is bad, but the rate that Synoid uses ammo exceed the possible pick-up rate if used as DPS weapon, as damage on a target for 1 second. 

 

If X <Y, yet both are less than the required Z , the only benefit between using Y would be the ability to be used for a few seconds longer.

 

And I don't think ANYONE can agree that ANY weapon should be balanced for masochists who *solo* up to around level 100.

Straw man. 

 

What determines how high a weapon can go is ammo efficiency; Ammo is not even remotely balanced in this game on low damage per hit weapons. A weapons like, Marelok, Lex, Hek, Bows (all types) have a fairly absurd level range, as do numerous other weapons that have a decent damage per bullet. Some bad weapons can still be used at high level just because they have a decent ratio. 

 

The problem is NPC's heath/armor scaling is aggressive and ammo pick-up are static based on kills and RNG of type. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by LazyKnight

[BlutAdler]

I ran some of those, actually. It still dishes out 42k damage every second (old was 50kish) even with ammo mutation installed.

 

Your synoid doesn't hit 42k damage every second. I think you need to revise your sentence. 

[ShardsSuperior]

Are you missing the point deliberately? It does not matter, since neither can provided enough ammo from pick-up to take 1 second to kill a target. This is not something that is saying Primed ammo mutation is bad, but the rate that Synoid use ammo exceed the possible pick-up rate if used as DPS weapon, as damage on a target for 1 second. 

 

If X <Y, yet both are less than the required Z , the only benefit between using Y would be the ability to be used for a few seconds longer.

 

Straw man. 

 

What determines how high a weapon can go is ammo efficiency; Ammo is not even remotely balanced in this game on low damage per hit weapons. A weapons like, Marelok, Lex, Hek, Bows (all types) have a fairly absurd level range, as do numerous other weapons that have a decent damage per bullet. Some bad weapons can still be used at high level just because they have a decent ratio. 

 

The problem is NPC's heath/armor scaling is aggressive and ammo pick-up are static based on kills and RNG of type. 

 

With Primed Pistol Mutation, each pickup gives an average of 20 bullets? Shots? Somethings.

1 second = 24 ammo/per second.

 

When playing solo:

This means you need to find an ammo pick up for about every .83 seconds spent firing.

Burst DPS = 30k.

This means you have 25k damage to find an ammo pickup.

How often do ammo pickups come about in game? Maybe an average of 1 per 2 kills, and an average of 1 per container?

Let's ignore the containers for convenience.

That's 25k damage for about 2 enemies. As long as the average enemy does not have more than 12.5k HP, you will not run out of ammo.

 

T4E. This should be around the limit that normal solo players should be able to get to. Enemies are around level 35.

 

Corrupted Bombard

Cloned Flesh: 4908

Alloy Armor: 1576

Effective Health: 30.7k

-So you cannot fight an infinite stream of Bombards. This I will allow you.

But you don't fight all Bombards. Most of the enemies you fight are Lancers and Crewmen

Lancer:

Cloned Flesh: 982

Alloy Armor: 679

Effective Health:  2900

 

Crewman:

Flesh: 982

Shields: 1451

Effective Health: 2432

 

This means that you can, with Prime Pistol Mutation, still be just fine in the ammo department in T4E.

[blasron]

but after 2minute you lack ammo even with the mutation mod and aura

[GSDAkatsuki]

Prime Pistol Ammo Mutation is essential in a Synoid Gammacor build now so it's full build damage starting is already nerfed hard. Gunslinger or Anemic Agility will have to be removed to maintain ammo economy. Overall its damage immediately drops to more avg. levels of damage atm, but it still has ammo issues even with all these things combined. Fact of the matter is that as each second is spent per shot for an enemy killed, ammo gets lower to convert as enemy scale up. So even already doing things in an attempt to keep it ammo efficient, the damage instantly drops and its ammo issues are still very much an issue, it ends up being pointless carrying this weapon as a 2ndary as you could carry a different weapon with similar damage output without that ammo deficiency issue.

Edited March 22, 2015 by GSDAkatsuki

[LazyKnight]

Primed Ammo Mutation is almost twice as effective as normal Pistol Ammo Mutation. This isn't even subjective.

Just to clarify, even though Primed ammo mutation is 2x as effective as rare mutation it does not mean it gives 2x the pick-up amount.  Pistol ammo drops are fixed for this mod and make up 20-40% of all ammo drops. It end up being something like 14 for rare version compared to 20 for primed.

[ShardsSuperior]

Just to clarify, even though Primed ammo mutation is 2x as effective as rare mutation it does not mean it gives 2x the pick-up amount.  Pistol ammo drops are fixed for this mod and make up 20-40% of all ammo drops. It end up being something like 14 for rare version compared to 20 for primed.

Fine. But it's still quite noticeable.

 

At over 1.3k damage per ammo, it's still quite efficient. Probably even more so than Soma Prime.

[Twilight053]

Try this thing in 40+ minute survivals instead of posting numbers that rely on having INFINITE AMMO imo.

Please, everyone can do this by not forgetting they have melee and primary. That's some S-class memory if anyone forgets.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Twilight053

[Vargras]

Synoid Gammacor users are complaining that their secondary runs out of ammo and has horrid sustained DPS now, and is only good for backup and burst DPS.

 

I'm not sure how many realize that pretty much every other secondary has been like that for ages.

[GSDAkatsuki]

Synoid Gammacor users are complaining that their secondary runs out of ammo and has horrid sustained DPS now, and is only good for backup and burst DPS.

I'm not sure how many realize that pretty much every other secondary has been like that for ages.

Brakk and marelok lol and say that they are primaries. Edited March 24, 2015 by GSDAkatsuki

[ShardsSuperior]

Brakk and marelok lol and say that they are primaries.

I'm pretty sure he means automatic trigger secondaries.

 

Synoid Gammacor is now in line with other held trigger secondaries, while keeping its burst DPS. Is that so bad?

[KalthianPrime]

They should cal this game Nerframe.

DE hasnt changed a bit. A comunity of little annoying kids who cant stand other people getting more kills then they do, start crying about OP and a perfect endgame weapon gets totally demolished (not the first time). Not keeping in mind that players have spend their time and money in to a gun or frame. DE just says screw your potatoes and screw your formas. Because SG is nothing like it was. Its a totally diffrent gun. If a nerf really had to be done they could have at least spent some time on it. To ensure players dont get smacked in the face when they login and find their favorite gun totally destroyed. 

To the people who are so glad that the SG got nerfed..... Be afraid cause your favorite weapon or frame is next. Cant wait till these players get screwed over like the SG players. Cant wait til brakk, boltor prime, soma prime and all of these powerfull weapons get nerfed till destruction. Cant wait till saryn gets here butt nerfed till theres nothing left of her. Because thats how DE works.

And besides that. How can DE nerf 1 weapon. While there is so much balancing to do on all the other weapons. Synoid gammacore is not the only so called OP weapon. How can DE continously make the same mistakes over and over again. Smacking tons of players right in their faces. Ive lost so many formas and potatoes. Cant even calculate the time and money spend on all that crap. Because of all these these freaking nerfs. Ive been playing a long time. And i have stopped playing because of this problem. I came back and find the SG, i loved it. And then again they screwed me over. Not to mention the excalibur nerf. Another reason for me to stop playing again. I realy hoped they have changed. 

DE is going to lose a lot of players if they continue like this, And it will sure as hell not help their platinum sales. I mean come on. Why whould anyone forma or potato any frame or weapon again ? Knowing that DE can and probably wil also ruin it. And al that to keep a game "balanced"?

Spend some freaking more time and realise nerfing is not the only option. Im starting to regret every minute and euro ive spend on this game. All my favorite stuff has been destroyed because of the freaking kiddy OP community. And it has been like that since ive started playing warframe. Way to go DE !! Believe me im not the only one whe is totally fed up with these incompetent developers. 

Again. to the people who like the synoid gammacore nerf. Just wait till your gear gets destroyed. Just wait till some nerf effects you. Cant wait to see you al crying in the forums. Cause im sure these kids will.  

BTW..... Its not stil a good secondairy. Try to reach wave 40 t4 defence and tell me if the SG is a good gun. Tell me if it still feals like the SG your used to. If i freakin wanted a ammo sucking ***** as gun i whould have used my dex furis or twin wraith viper and i whould have never slapped a potato and formas on the SG. 

I had it with this game and had it with the kiddys screwing everything up.

 

This. This ties into an earlier comment that if they're going to nerf something this drastically, they need to be MUCH faster about it. Burned so much time/resources into this weapon, and now it's complete and utter sh**. I cannot imagine why people are upset /sarcasm.

[GhostMelody]

Well, it's still a pretty big hit in ammo efficiency.

pistol ammo mutation

Problem solved

[magusat999]

They should cal this game Nerframe.

DE hasnt changed a bit. A comunity of little annoying kids who cant stand other people getting more kills then they do, start crying about OP and a perfect endgame weapon gets totally demolished (not the first time). Not keeping in mind that players have spend their time and money in to a gun or frame. DE just says screw your potatoes and screw your formas. Because SG is nothing like it was. Its a totally diffrent gun. If a nerf really had to be done they could have at least spent some time on it. To ensure players dont get smacked in the face when they login and find their favorite gun totally destroyed. 

To the people who are so glad that the SG got nerfed..... Be afraid cause your favorite weapon or frame is next. Cant wait till these players get screwed over like the SG players. Cant wait til brakk, boltor prime, soma prime and all of these powerfull weapons get nerfed till destruction. Cant wait till saryn gets here butt nerfed till theres nothing left of her. Because thats how DE works.

And besides that. How can DE nerf 1 weapon. While there is so much balancing to do on all the other weapons. Synoid gammacore is not the only so called OP weapon. How can DE continously make the same mistakes over and over again. Smacking tons of players right in their faces. Ive lost so many formas and potatoes. Cant even calculate the time and money spend on all that crap. Because of all these these freaking nerfs. Ive been playing a long time. And i have stopped playing because of this problem. I came back and find the SG, i loved it. And then again they screwed me over. Not to mention the excalibur nerf. Another reason for me to stop playing again. I realy hoped they have changed. 

DE is going to lose a lot of players if they continue like this, And it will sure as hell not help their platinum sales. I mean come on. Why whould anyone forma or potato any frame or weapon again ? Knowing that DE can and probably wil also ruin it. And al that to keep a game "balanced"?

Spend some freaking more time and realise nerfing is not the only option. Im starting to regret every minute and euro ive spend on this game. All my favorite stuff has been destroyed because of the freaking kiddy OP community. And it has been like that since ive started playing warframe. Way to go DE !! Believe me im not the only one whe is totally fed up with these incompetent developers. 

Again. to the people who like the synoid gammacore nerf. Just wait till your gear gets destroyed. Just wait till some nerf effects you. Cant wait to see you al crying in the forums. Cause im sure these kids will.  

BTW..... Its not stil a good secondairy. Try to reach wave 40 t4 defence and tell me if the SG is a good gun. Tell me if it still feals like the SG your used to. If i freakin wanted a ammo sucking ***** as gun i whould have used my dex furis or twin wraith viper and i whould have never slapped a potato and formas on the SG. 

I had it with this game and had it with the kiddys screwing everything up.

This This...

 

This was me - maybe a bit more eloquent than I - but essentially this was my response when DE started the rampant Nerfing about two years ago. The absolute worse was a bitter, nasty, unwanted and unnecessary nerf of all the launchers. There was a lot of fighting and gnashing of teeth over that - but DE didn't care, and did it anyway.

 

Yes, for you newbies, DE has a history and a love of nerfing. Some outstanding ones include:

 

Nerfing Frost's Snowglobe so you have to constantly re-apply it, and placing a color inside so you can't see when you in it.

Nerfing the Soma with an update that essentially nerfed a lot of things - but the Soma was the most hurtful because it was a god.

Nerfing Vauban's Bastille so it doesn't stop bullets and has a limit on how many enemies it holds back.

Nerfing Trinity so she cannot be relied on to kepp the team alive or "invincible".

Nerfing Excalibur and changing his skill so it temporarily blinds instead of kills

Nerfing Rhino's skin so it don't last so long.

Trying to Nerf Nova, which ended up not working and creating fast and slow Nova (which are very useful anyways).

Taking away helmets that augment weaknesses in characters despite players begging for MORE augmented accessories.

Nerfing the Wraith (Prime) and telling people there was a mathematical error that made it effective...

Taking away auras -  which were conditions we could choose that lasted the whole mission...

Rolling out massive nerfs and calling them "updates"... so many since I started paying I cannot count.  I think the updates were at 7 or 8 when I started - so that tells you how many I have seen - and they get progressively worse for game play.

 

I sincerely do not believe there are a lot of people actually calling out for nerfs. I think that we are being told something that we really cannot verify. I warnd people who were laughing when the launcher nerf happened that if they stick around long enough it will happen to their favorite too. It is and has been happening, apparently. I am surprised the Brakk has not been touched yet - but they will get to it - it's been less then a year since the launcher nerf... we will see what happens probably sooner than later.

 

I was an everyday, all day player before they started killing the gameplay. Now I just log in every once in a while to keep my account current - just in case by some miracle they have a change of heart and start making the game for the players. Sure, there were a few people who whined about players posted in a pole firing a Penta and never coming down for ammo - but guess what - that person firing that Penta was playing the game - for hours and hours. That person was spending money - you can't push purchases on a person who isn't there. Instead of alienating people and wiping out potential profit, DE needs to figure out ways to keep who they have AND attract the new crowds. Just ask Zynga - they had the same attitude and they're in the toilet now, gasping for air.

[Flustershy]

Folks, your Synoid is fine. It still does insane damage. Yes, they chunk out more ammo, however Synoid still dishes insane damage as it was and (unfortunately) most people did not realize this, judging by the feedback.

 

Q: But they nerfed it's insane 210 damage to 28! How is that not an overkill nerf!?

A: Good question, this is where most people are delusioned with the misconception. Please remember that DE have also increased it's fire rate by 7.5x. Essentially, when you multiply the post-nerf damage with the new fire rate: 28 x 7.5, what did you get?

 

Exactly, 210 damage. =)

You the same Twilight053 as in warframe wiki if so why in the world anything you do is messaged to my warframe wiki profiles notifications :-/

and no i haven't even clicked at your profile once.

[Davoodoo]

How bad is its ammo economy compared to secura cestras?

Its better, synoid is pinpoint accurate and it doesnt have projectile speed thus requiring less discipline and skill to get results.

[Bacl]

Lol QQ more about this weapon is OP and this shouldnt be like that, always the same old story about how people envy what other have, instead of complaining just get the damn thing ffs.

 

Personnally the only Reason i really wanted that gun whant for the insane DPS, it was for the look! Gammacor is the only god damn weapon that doesnt look like a gun and TBH, since my favorite frame is Nekros i cant really picture the grim reaper using a gun so SG acting a bit like the FINGER OF DEATH was awesome, hell even before buff it was weak but i could use it.

 

Good way to ablance it, instead of nerfing the damage by 750% and speeding the consuption by 7,5 times, a middle ground maybe?  If they want to keep the same dps fine but make it a bit more ammo efficient, 25 ammos per seconds are you kidding?!

 

Currently building the regular gammacor right now (again), since it is currently doing more damage per shot then SG, consumes a lot less ammo and far more manageable, losing all my status chances because of whinners but hell its the only gun that doesnt look like a gun and i will keep using it with nekros one way or another.

 

I always try to stay polite on the forums so i appologize but F*** tose who been complaining about it, you wont refund me the potatoes and formas so i guess i have the right to say so.

[Sea_Wall]

What is loss of sustained DPS through 7.5X more frequent reloads? 

[Davoodoo]

What is loss of sustained DPS through 7.5X more frequent reloads? 

At worst 20% difference.

[Bacl]

This is mostly a PvE game, that kind of complaining on the forum about nerfing something is mostly on PvP games since the complainers are getting wrecked by a particular element and i can understand that, yes if this was in pvp the SG would be very brutal for a side arm, in PvE who cares?

 

Use what you like and you have the right to remain silent, when something get really game breaking then they shall adress, the nerf on it is way too hard, a nerf ok fine but that is just plain overkill.

 

Unless the whinning was coming the PvE components.... All those poor killed corpus and grineers created account and QQed on the forum because the SG was OP. THEY ARE SELF AWARE!

Edited April 10, 2015 by Bacl

[(XBOX)Purdue Wolf]

Most synoid users are 'try hards', and when I've run t4 missions I've seen where other users come out ahead on damage and kills. If you don't like the change adapt or learn to use other weapons.

[bunitchu]

what have you done!!!!!? people had finally settled down and let go of the subject....why?! why did you restart the madness?! *hides under a tenno rock*