Melee Blocking Nerf

[blasron]

I do have to said that block dosen't stop the slash (manic got me by that when i was blocking him+ some grataka weilder got me slash proc too)) and radiation proc (from the detron dude)

[StinkyPygmy]

It's a fact, not a misconception.

Can you provide that stamina build?

 

Any frame should be able to go "sword alone", but they can't.

Just now I went to Merrow melee only, I've taken Rhino and Serro. On my way trough map a wild bombard appears; he shots rockets, Rhino deflects one rocket (no Iron Skin, stamina down); another rocket comes and Rhino gets blast proc (he falls down), meanwhile sentinel's shields are blasted away; third rocket is on it's way, Rhino deflects it (stamina down), sentinel dead. Iron Skin ON, Charge!!! Serros his @ss to Grineer heaven!

 

What bothers me is that you can't block/reflect things while having IS on, damage still affects IS; blocking is not helping sentinel he receives damage and dies.

Rolling. Any frame can melee high level content in my experience.

Rolling is crucial to melee only arguably more so then blocking.

Does that mean blocking should be nerfed and that stamina doesn't need a rework? nope.

But as things are now rolling will help you resist all knockdowns, give you DR and a bunch of other stuff.

Rolling saves my butt even when not going sword alone.

Edited March 22, 2015 by StinkyPygmy

[seth]

Rolling. Any frame can melee high level content in my experience.

Rolling is crucial to melee only arguably more so then blocking.

Does that mean blocking should be nerfed and that stamina doesn't need a rework? nope.

But as things are now rolling will help you resist all knockdowns, give you DR and a bunch of other stuff.

Rolling saves my butt even when not going sword alone.

 

Rolling is probably unintentional, if DE knew they would nerf it; example, each time player rolls he has 99.99% chance to spawn scorpion/ancient/moa and be dragged/kicked to other side of playable area.

There are no rolling mods, blocking has few. DE should really start working on melee 5.0 and skip 3.0 and 4.0.

[megazomb]

It's a fact, not a misconception.

Can you provide that stamina build?

 

Any frame should be able to go "sword alone", but they can't.

 

What if told you that wasn't true before the nerf? Would you believe me if I told you:

 

I used to actively hunt and rush the heavies and bait them to launch their knockdown attack on me, which I would block and have enough stamina remaining to kill him and anyone around him. All used to be within our grasp, my friends.

 

Since it pertains to our discussion, I wont derail too much. Here's how is was done:

 

It is actually TWO builds across your Warframe and Melee Weapon that support each other. So importantly on the WF build we have: Steel Charge, Marathon, Rush, Quick Rest and Reflection. - these all assist blocking. And Flow or Primed Flow to a lesser extent. "But you said you don't use powers much, mega? Why flow?"

 

Because Channeling. On the Melee build side two important mods are Reflex Coil and Fury. RC to use our energy to help kill faster, and Fury to up the dps. I should note that with this build I spend nearly the entire mission blocking and channeling at the same time. And that I use Zeph and the D Nikana for my example here. However, nearly any frame can use this set-up effectively. 

 

 

[Otaiken]

snip

 

This build doesn't really do much damage though. Not only that, majority of your damage is on slash which limits you heavily against certain enemies. Well, unless you roll with 4xCP but even then you would be better served with Viral.

 

On the Warframe's side you spend 2 mods on melee (3 if you count Rush in your build, some frames don't need it). You could spend those on ability mods and defend yourself through abilities. You would be safer, more effective in dealing damage and would scale higher into levels.

 

Don't get me wrong, it seems like a fun build. But I wouldn't exactly say it validates the flaws that stamina system has.

 

Having less damage means you spend more time in the fight which means that you spend more stamina. Stamina just doesn't scale well. Stamina is finite resource, even with mods, and most frames get a pretty low base value too. But enemies scale infinitely and fast.

[megazomb]

Of course you're right. I just like the added challenge of not having to use any powers, call me crazy. After all, your mileage may vary. And that's the potential beauty and of the system (or its downfall I guess).

 

Which gets us back on topic. Is that build too op? Did it break some game system? Why the nerf?

[shyguyk]

break out them handsprings boys

[TheJagji]

Sorry, but if your hit with something that normally knocks you back, blocking it is not going to help.

[StinkyPygmy]

Rolling is probably unintentional, if DE knew they would nerf it; example, each time player rolls he has 99.99% chance to spawn scorpion/ancient/moa and be dragged/kicked to other side of playable area.

There are no rolling mods, blocking has few. DE should really start working on melee 5.0 and skip 3.0 and 4.0.

Trust me DE knows. They are the ones that added the DMG reduction and have openly acknowledged its there to counter things like knockdowns, Swarm MOAs, etc. You don't need rolling mods, because it already does everything.

It has for a long time and its more then just a clumsy animation for looking cool.

Hek, it even works when you roll while aiming down sight. I find the ADS backflip animation great for avoiding scorpion and ancient hooks.

Edited March 23, 2015 by StinkyPygmy

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

Sorry, but if your hit with something that normally knocks you back, blocking it is not going to help.

Are you really going down this route? We have frames that just magically spawns swords out their butts, create big flashing disco ball out of nothing, use magic dust turn air extremely lethal to everyone in range excluding herself and her friends, we have dog that is being getting shot by rockets yet his/her fur doesnt even show slighest burn marks. The point is logic barely has place in this game, so chancing something because its not logical is total BS.

 

This nerf was horrible and totally uncessary. Melee allready need BOOST to become more viable, yet we got something that made it less viable. Effing great job, sometimes it feels DE folks lives in total opposite reality where we live in.

[onemoonlight]

like people have already posted - dodges ignore all CC effects on top of giving you a damage reduction - if you see a grineer/moa/eximus animation just roll through it

 

if you find tapping shift twice annoying you have an option to bind dodge to a separate key, like alt or mouse thumb

[megazomb]

Yeah, no one is arguing the validity of the roll/dodge tactic. It's a solid mechanic that works. But guess what? So was blocking.

 

And now what...we're only allowed one move against them now? What was wrong with having the option for both? If the roll thing was nerfed, folks that used it a lot would be upset too.

[Kihana]

The change is reasonable. You block while they're firing. They choose another attack style, you choose another mitigation method.

[seth]

This is what I expected and wanted from block mechanic, but didn't get and now it's even more useless. Ninjas in space.

[Tymerc]

Doesn't bother me at all. Makes the Knockdown resistance and recovery Mods more appealing.

 

Besides, you have no business being at point blank range of a Heavy Unit anyways.

 

If you really need to melee them, then knock them down with an air kick first.

[Juebev]

I notice something was up when I wasn't able to block heat waves anymore, that was one of my favorite things to do in this game.

Why in the world did they nerf that? I can understand shockwaves this is too much.

 

Do I have to equip band-aid mods for that too?

I'm just finding myself enjoying this game less and less.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Juebev

[Riot_Inducer]

Wow...yeah, lets nerf blocking because it was so OP with the current stamina system anyways right? I try not to be too critical of balance changes but a lot of the crap DE has done recently just really makes me wonder wtf are they thinking.  

[Gelkor]

This is pretty lame, I go melee only A LOT and this is gonna suck.

[megazomb]

 

Fixes

• Fixed players being unable to parry the Grineer Heavy Gunner’s melee slam.

 

Thank you, DE. 

[Deidaku]

Doesn't bother me at all. Makes the Knockdown resistance and recovery Mods more appealing.

 

Besides, you have no business being at point blank range of a Heavy Unit anyways.

 

If you really need to melee them, then knock them down with an air kick first.

those aren't supposed to be a mod

 

It's a mechanic that DE is supposed to work on. And still isn't here!!

[NoirTree]

This is just bullS#&$. Why would they do this? This is a horrible nerf and should be reverted ASAP.

 

Let me cite DE:

 

"We want to make melee a viable choice"

 

 

Lies. Over and over again. Every Update you ruin the game more and more with such (stealth) nerfs, despite telling you wouldn't.

IAgree with this. DE WHY? WHY YOU NERFED THAT? I CAN'T PLAY MELEE LONGER THAN  20 minutes on T4.

Year of quality?

I'm realy Sorry, No quality in that nerf.

Edited March 25, 2015 by NoirTree

[MechaTails]

I don't care.

 

I just want to be able to dropkick heavies without them pulling that bullS#&$ where they slam the ground and I somehow still get knocked out of the air.

[Sakatchi]

Dear people in this thread, while I share annoyence with this block nerf, I would also like to point out handspring exists, and you should use it.

 

If that mod just dosent feel like existing for you, like dual rounds does for me, I'd like to point out valkyrs also enjoy innate knock down reisitance.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

This issue appears to be resolved as of Hotfix 16.0.4.