Frustrations From A Casual Gamer Girl

[silveroliva]

Ok, I’m starting this off by stating that I AM A DIRTY CASUAL GAMER. One of the few, one of the proud.

I have a life beyond gaming, don’t get me wrong, I freaking LOVE to settle down after a terrible day at work or stressful day dealing with all the unpleasant people in my city.

I have a job. I have money. I spend that money on games that I like. I have paid for parts of warframe. I have given back to them. I speak with my wallet… Blah, blah, etc. etc.

Now lets have a chat about What Is A Casual Gamer!

1. We only have about 2-3 hours a day (sometimes not even that) to sink into a game. We tend to stick with the FB games or free to play games that we, can once in a while, sink some money into but we aren’t committed to it if say, we have a really busy week or a really financially tight month.

2. We don’t (with few exceptions) post on forums, or interact in any meaningful way with the community out of game. this is due to the fact that WE HAVE LIVES, and we have social lives, hence the 2-3 hours (maybe) a day.

3. There are more of us then you think and we ARE MORE LIKELY TO SPEND MONEY ON THE GAME. I really wish I could find the stats for this, there was a great article that was written about gaming back in 2013. It detailed this, siting FB and free-to-play format type games as the reason why more Casual gamers are being drawn to “more hard-core type games” and more games are going free-to-play.

I’ll link a more recent article that isn’t as good, here: http://www.bigfishgames.com/blog/2014-global-gaming-stats-whos-playing-what-and-why/

Since it only give the basic statistics. But even going on those numbers (Even if they are a year old) Casual gamers are still a BIG CASH COW.

Well, that is all I have for why you should even listen to what I have to say next (I’m talking to you, warframe DEVs).

So lets talk about the grind. I get it, every gamer worth their salt does. I’ve been playing MMO’s since Ultima Online (No, really I played it), EQ, City of Heroes and even gave Conan a try when it first came out. But, my game designer friends, there is a limit to this. The RNG gods are a thing, and every gamer has prayed to them! THIS IS NOT MY FIRST RODEO! I understand balance and I get that you want everyone to be able to get something out of the game.

I will tell you right now, that when I sit down to play a game, I do a, “How much (read: how satisfying will this be) can I get done in the 2 hours after I make dinner and before I have to go to bed.” If the answer is, a frustratingly low amount, then I’m sorry, but I’m going to pass on it and play some Skyrim, or maybe some Diablo. And I will NOT be spending 25 bucks of my steam cash on your game this month.

So there are some grinds that are getting just out of control. Like the syndicate only items that can’t be traded. Take a page out of Blizzard’s (I know I just invoked another dirty word!) book. They had to learn the hard way With Burning Crusade’s faction grind. That it’s O.K but only if it’s character specific. Warframe has to take into account that there are 20-odd ‘Frames now, all shared in one account. What this means is, as a casual gamer, doing the missions in the first place is a grind fest, but then I can’t GIVE YOU MONEY TO BUY CREDITS to then buy the opposing Syndicates stuff?  Yes, things like the signals makes perfect sense why you can’t trade that, (that’s not what I’m saying). I saying, the Large Energy team restores and the like. I WILL NEVER SPEND THE TIME GOING UP THE OTHER SYNDICATE. Ever. I just won’t. You Have made is far too difficult to grind up the other side AND get all those other Prime Helmets, gold potatoes, credits and such! Seriously… I don’t have the freaking time! And I am REALLY hurt that you guys are making this stuff so difficult!

Don’t even get me started on making grinding credits, MODs, cores and prime parts outrageous. Or the massive nerfs to weapons making it really hard to just spend a solid 2 hours doing something like leveling my weapons and ‘Frames. Or the nerfs (Ember was a nerf, don’t say it wasn’t, when you make it more costly in resources (for energy restore that are now a MUST if you want the frame to be viable) and the $&*&*#(%& amount of multitasking needed to make her useful and you not booted from your group, it’s a freaking nerf)  to our favorite frames, making it less likely that I will have the time needed to get anywhere useful in my prime farm/credit farm/Cores farm etc.

Ok, that got hostile, I apologize.

So why haven’t you heard from us about this? Because we don’t really have the time to post. Like I said, we speak with our wallets and while warframe is a really awesome game (don’t misunderstand me, I really  like this game or I wouldn’t have come out of the lurking shadows of the forums to vent my mounting frustration) If you alienate us with ridiculous nerfs, insurmountable RNG tables or the like, we are going to stop giving you our money… that we earn… at our jobs… that we spend most of the day at.

We lurk in the shadows, but we are a HUGE part of your player base that is growing every day. We are soccer moms, we are kids who go to school, we are the poor; working 2 jobs with only enough time to play on the weekend. But we love your game and we give you our hard earned money! Don’t hate us! Rejoice that you have created something that can be played and loved by a HUGELY diverse bunch of people!

And PLEASE keep us in mind when you are considering changes to the game.

There’s a lot more that I want to say, but I have to make dinner :)

Cheers,

Silverolivia

[SquirmyBurrito]

1. We don’t (with few exceptions) post on forums, or interact in any meaningful way with the community out of game. this is due to the fact that WE HAVE LIVES

 

I take offense to the implications this has on non-casual gamers. I too have a life, but I'm not a casual gamer.

[Rekkou]

Casual is not measured by money spent or time spent, casual is attitude. If you feel it necessary to do the things that actually unnecessary, then you're not casual by any standard. Casual players, play for fun no matter what they do. If content is unreachable by their effort and will remove the fun out of their play time, they simply don't do it and won't feel any loss about it.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Rekkou

[Generic_Generica]

If you're feeling burned out, take a break. Do something else. It's what I'm doing, I'm basically done for the next three months.

[Agua]

I take offense to the implications this has on non-casual gamers. I too have a life, but I'm not a casual gamer.

 

Telling casual gamers have lifes, doesn't imply that non casual gamers do not have life. Basic logic.

 

 

Other than that, the grind is too strong now. For casual and non casual gamers.

[Ophan]

I suppose the point the OP is trying to get at is that the grind is getting to a state where it is becoming too consuming to the point

where even a finiacial investment into the game is not enough, and this is detering players who have limited time ( Having A Life is hopefully not directed at people I hope) to actually enjoy playing the game.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Ophan

[ENIAK_Prime]

I take offense to the implications this has on non-casual gamers. I too have a life, but I'm not a casual gamer.

She didn't mean it like that, I'm sure.

It's hard not to sound a little pissed off when WarFrame so clearly turns it's nose up at casual players with so much of it's game mechanics.

The impossible grind, wait-times for constructing things, fuckin'... Kubrow Defrost Time (THAT -REALLY- NEVER NEEDED TO BE A THING, DE. NEVER. EVER.).

I myself can't call myself a hardcore gamer, but I wouldn't call myself a casual. I'm somewhere in between so I can vouch for what it's like on both sides, really. Sometimes I just don't feel like plunging 4+ hours consecutively into a game, and sometimes I will be here for 3 days straight and not realize that the sun had set a few times.

That said, it's true that casual gamers are an enormous cash-cow and DE should absolutely stop doing things that turn them away. They're not playing as much, no, but there's significantly more of them out there, enough to easily rival and/or trump the income any game makes from it's dedicated players.

DE absolutely needs to start keeping such people in mind when they develop new time-based mechanisms (ie, they should stop doing that completely). The aforementioned Kubrow defrost timer is one of those things that absolutely MUST go if this game wants to be friendly to casuals.

I am NOT going to leave a kubrow out when it loses health when it's active, and I'm NOT going to freakin' know 3 hours in advance whether or not I'll want to take it on any particular mission.

At least move the goddamn timer to the back and be like... "you JUST put this Kubrow in the freezer, so you can't take it back out for 3 hours. However, after that you're free to take it right out and use it whenever.". Jesus...

[r110platinum]

I (used to) usually play about 2-3 hours a day, more if there was something cool going on, but I wouldn't consider that casual.

 

But that's not the point here, and I agree with you; this game has fundamentally been about grinding for stuff you want, whether that be RNG based or XP based. 

 

I consider myself a veteran player, to the point that I am ready for "end game" content. I was really hoping U16 would start to move away from the grind and more towards gameplay developments, but apparently that wasn't the case.

 

I haven't played the game at all since grinding for the last prime access items, and I really don't see a reason to now either. New content is fine, but it's behind more grind walls. There's a point where enough is enough.

 

If the gameplay was good enough to justify grinds like this then I would be more ok with it (ie Monster Hunter, where skill is a major component of gameplay, and Destiny, where gameplay iin generali s just more solid and dynamic), but it's not, and it's starting to get really really old. I lost track of how many times I've been grinding XP to level guns while slowly dozing off because of how monotonous it gets.

Edited March 22, 2015 by r110platinum

[SquirmyBurrito]

Telling casual gamers have lifes, doesn't imply that non casual gamers do not have life. Basic logic.

 

 

Other than that, the grind is too strong now. For casual and non casual gamers.

 

Did you even bother reading the bit of text I quoted? Here it is again "We don’t (with few exceptions) post on forums, or interact in any meaningful way with the community out of game. this is due to the fact that WE HAVE LIVES"

 

If Casual gamers (with few exceptions) do not post on forums due to the fact that they have lives, it implies that hardcore gamers do post on forums due to the 'fact' that they do not have lives. I have no idea why so many people on the internet like to incorrectly declare what is and what isn't logical. If something is "basic logic" it won't require you to mention it.

 

She didn't mean it like that, I'm sure.

It's hard not to sound a little &!$$ed off when WarFrame so clearly turns it's nose up at casual players with so much of it's game mechanics.

The impossible grind, wait-times for constructing things, fuckin'... Kubrow Defrost Time (THAT -REALLY- NEVER NEEDED TO BE A THING, DE. NEVER. EVER.).

I myself can't call myself a hardcore gamer, but I wouldn't call myself a casual. I'm somewhere in between so I can vouch for what it's like on both sides, really. Sometimes I just don't feel like plunging 4+ hours consecutively into a game, and sometimes I will be here for 3 days straight and not realize that the sun had set a few times.

That said, it's true that casual gamers are an enormous cash-cow and DE should absolutely stop doing things that turn them away. They're not playing as much, no, but there's significantly more of them out there, enough to easily rival and/or trump the income any game makes from it's dedicated players.

DE absolutely needs to start keeping such people in mind when they develop new time-based mechanisms (ie, they should stop doing that completely). The aforementioned Kubrow defrost timer is one of those things that absolutely MUST go if this game wants to be friendly to casuals.

I am NOT going to leave a kubrow out when it loses health when it's active, and I'm NOT going to freakin' know 3 hours in advance whether or not I'll want to take it on any particular mission.

At least move the goddamn timer to the back and be like... "you JUST put this Kubrow in the freezer, so you can't take it back out for 3 hours. However, after that you're free to take it right out and use it whenever.". Jesus...

 

The casual gamers aren't alone in feeling snubbed. Many of the veterans feel that way too.

Edited March 22, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[Burnthesteak87]

Grinding is the only answer to an hungry/no-life/nerd community.

It's the cheapest food for the hungriest mouths.
So essentially if the game is like this, it's because of its target.
Sorry.

Luckly Warframe can have smaller objectives that can still make enjoy people who haven't enough time to spend.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[Haukai]

Not exactly sure why it was absolutely needed for you to specify that you're a girl, but I agree with most of your points.
I don't consider myself a casual warframe player, and even then, I have issues keeping up with the grind some time, and when I actually sit and think about it, I have no idea how someone more casual than myself or my clannies could ever keep up with all the grind when we're barely making it...

Some grind walls need to fall, that's for sure, starting with fusion costs. I have thousands of cores, thousands of duplicates, but the cost needed to fuse stuff is just ridiculous for newer/more casual players, some things need to change.

[Shinobi-kun]

Time? Unless DE is to shut down Warframe forever. 

I like to see myself as a casual player, too. I grind stuff at my own pace with college and part time work.
Though I do think the RNGrind HAS gotten a bit out of control.


p.s.
Like some said, what's your gender got to say in your post? Guys have it just as tough as you do, working dads etc.

And I do hope by 'having a life' you mean work, family and finance. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by Shinobi-kun

[Dreadwire]

Maam im with you on this one.

played this game 2 or 3 hour daily.

Always have a target in mind. And on those time line 50% will achieved it.

now it went from good to ...... grind

Rep grind

exp grind

parts grind

oh look pvp grind

[r110platinum]

Grinding is the only answer to an hungry/no-life/nerd community.

It's the cheapest food for the hungriest mouths.

So essentially if the game is like this, is because of the community.

Sorry.

I kind of agree with you. There's a game on Xbox Live called Castlevania HD that is literally a grind for items (once you get the skills to beat levels and bosses of course. The thing that keeps you going with grind heavy games that reward you with loot is that sort of addiction of gambling for drops and hoping your luck will get you what you want.

 

When I first started to really get into Warframe, I kind of knew that that's what Warframe was essentially going to be. A fundamentally grind heavy system that rewards players with rare drops. I still played it, for the reasons I stated above, the element of luck and not knowing what you were going to get was just exciting for me, and finally getting the stuff you wanted and being able to show off your cool new weapon justified the grind.

 

But nearly a year later and like ~600 hours or something, the grind is still the grind. It's the same enemies, the same gameplay, the same void missions, over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. 

[Chaosyn]

I started as a hardcore WF player  3 years ago(18 hour days every day for my first  5 or 6 months). Being on disability gave me that kind of free time.

When I got burned out it dropped to about an hour or two a day for a few months and then I just stopped playing for almost a year.

Now I probably play 2-6 hours every two weeks (I have other things that take up my time such as my art,working at a few friends websites,and Netflix).

I also went from playing with people to going solo ( yeah it sucks being cut off from some higher level content but the lack of pub game stress has helped a LOT).

 

I get why they cater to people that play more than I do,doesn't change the fact that there are some things that look like DE thumbing their noses at me.

(Not me specifically, but you know)....

 

It's kind of sad when I feel FORCED to buy something because they HAVE to put it behind an insane grindwall that discourages solo play (or outright denies it) or behind a timewall that forces me to play longer than I am comfortable doing...

 

There has always been a somewhat hefty grind associated with this game...but I USED to be able to do it on MY terms....Now some of it is play with others or else and play when we tell you to.... so yeah....when it goes that way I AM forced to buy whatever it is IF I want it at all.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Chaosyn

[Ophan]

Not exactly sure why it was absolutely needed for you to specify that you're a girl, but I agree with most of your points.

I don't consider myself a casual warframe player, and even then, I have issues keeping up with the grind some time, and when I actually sit and think about it, I have no idea how someone more casual than myself or my clannies could ever keep up with all the grind when we're barely making it...

Some grind walls need to fall, that's for sure, starting with fusion costs. I have thousands of cores, thousands of duplicates, but the cost needed to fuse stuff is just ridiculous for newer/more casual players, some things need to change.

^ So casual it's unreal smh.

 LoL.

 

But no, I'm in about the same range as you. It's more so the fact that the grind really does not bring much satisfaction for the increase of time it takes to achieve a goal. I feel more satifsfied getting a new frame that takes about 3-5 days 1000x times more than maxing a serration to the last rank for example.

 

I don't hate logical grind as long as the core gameplay is fun. Fun grind is all im asking for if grind is what is being imlpemented again and again.

[MagPrime]

Warframe is insanely grindy, yes.  Is it unreasonable?  Yup.  Needs to be changed.  

 

But keep in mind that DE is just now, 3 years later? getting lore into the game, providing raid type missions and hopefully fixing PvP.  On top of all the other changes they're making to core mechanics and holding to their content every week standard.  

 

The grind is an attempt at keeping people from burning through everything and then complaining about the game being too easy.  I would love more quests like Mirage and Chroma to get Warframes, instead of the current set up of RNG bending you over the barrel.  I'm taking a proactive step and participating on the forums and making suggestions to help that.  Creating a meta complaint thread, in the wrong section, doesn't help that much. 

 

Yes, it does show a frustration with the game but still. Put it in the right place.  Takes maybe two more clicks?

 

 

 

Telling casual gamers have lifes, doesn't imply that non casual gamers do not have life. Basic logic.

 

 

Other than that, the grind is too strong now. For casual and non casual gamers.

Stating "I'm a casual gamer because I have a life" does imply that the "hardcore" gamers do not.  Otherwise, why would it be stated?

[CelticMoss]

Cute someone deleted my post.

[faustias]

Cute someone deleted my post.

nobody can delete your post except for moderator, and I think they don't do that either in the name of ethics or something. They can change the texts if it's too inappropriate, but delete, nah.

 

 

also, to OP, some no-lifers actually have some... life. Where do you think we get our money for bills and plats?

 

But yeah, the grind is getting intense. I got so much to do on this game: rep farming (not draco, just doing regular and syndicate missions), ranking up new and new-forma'd items, grinding Chroma of course, re-rolling dice with RNG for some items and prime parts, remembering that I have to fuse cores on my Primed Flow, Heavy Cal and other rare mods... and with little time because I have other games to play, that two to  six hours playing is not enough.

[Demiax]

I'm actually kind of offended about the beginning of this Thread. I am a Male, and find that the first and second paragraphs are actually quite rude and sexist towards us guys. Other than that this is a VERY good Thread and i will continue to follow it. Also you cannot generalize the Female-gaming-populous. I have several girls in my clan as of right now but they do not talk often, sadly enough.

[SquirmyBurrito]

nobody can delete your post except for moderator, and I think they don't do that either in the name of ethics or something. They can change the texts if it's too inappropriate, but delete, nah.

 

 

also, to OP, some no-lifers actually have some... life. Where do you think we get our money for bills and plats?

 

But yeah, the grind is getting intense. I got so much to do on this game: rep farming (not draco, just doing regular and syndicate missions), ranking up new and new-forma'd items, grinding Chroma of course, re-rolling dice with RNG for some items and prime parts, remembering that I have to fuse cores on my Primed Flow, Heavy Cal and other rare mods... and with little time because I have other games to play, that two to  six hours playing is not enough.

 

Moderators regularly hide and/or delete posts. I've had many of my own posts hidden/deleted and I know this is the case because they admitted to it.

[silveroliva]

The impossible grind, wait-times for constructing things, fuckin'... Kubrow Defrost Time (THAT -REALLY- NEVER NEEDED TO BE A THING, DE. NEVER. EVER.).

I myself can't call myself a hardcore gamer, but I wouldn't call myself a casual. I'm somewhere in between so I can vouch for what it's like on both sides, really. Sometimes I just don't feel like plunging 4+ hours consecutively into a game, and sometimes I will be here for 3 days straight and not realize that the sun had set a few times.

DE absolutely needs to start keeping such people in mind when they develop new time-based mechanisms (ie, they should stop doing that completely). The aforementioned Kubrow defrost timer is one of those things that absolutely MUST go if this game wants to be friendly to casuals.

I am NOT going to leave a kubrow out when it loses health when it's active, and I'm NOT going to freakin' know 3 hours in advance whether or not I'll want to take it on any particular mission.

At least move the goddamn timer to the back and be like... "you JUST put this Kubrow in the freezer, so you can't take it back out for 3 hours. However, after that you're free to take it right out and use it whenever.". Jesus...

 

I actually laughed out loud when you mentioned the kubrows! That was actually one of the points I wanted to make, but I had to cut it for time. I'm actually not even sure why they want to give them a health timer in the first place. I'd like to see them have a base line health and dmg (with mods, of course) that you can put some kind of diminishing return buff on them, like stims or something. An you have to grind the parts for the stims. Other wise they did all this work putting an awesomely cute companion in the game that I honestly never play with. And this makes me a super sad panda!

 

I suppose the point the OP is trying to get at is that the grind is getting to a state where it is becoming too consuming to the point

where even a finiacial investment into the game is not enough, and this is detering players who have limited time ( Having A Life is hopefully not directed at people I hope) to actually enjoy playing the game.

 

Yes, that is exactly one of the points I was trying to make.

Also to clarify since I obviously goofed in my explanation of what I meant by "Have a life" ( I was typing this up pretty fast, so I want to extend my apologies for the poor explanation and offence) means and why I was using it. Mostly that, I personally, have a very busy work load on any given day, weather that’s social, work related or what have you (I even volunteer at my church and girl scouts as a leader and other activities like music/board games etc. So i don’t have a lot of time.) And When I reference other “Casual gamers who have lives” I am merely (and apparently poorly) trying to convey their own personal time constraints. Everyone is different and chooses to spend their time differently.

I hope this clarifies my intent a bit more clearly.

 

I (used to) usually play about 2-3 hours a day, more if there was something cool going on, but I wouldn't consider that casual.

 

But that's not the point here, and I agree with you; this game has fundamentally been about grinding for stuff you want, whether that be RNG based or XP based. 

 

I consider myself a veteran player, to the point that I am ready for "end game" content. I was really hoping U16 would start to move away from the grind and more towards gameplay developments, but apparently that wasn't the case.

 

I haven't played the game at all since grinding for the last prime access items, and I really don't see a reason to now either. New content is fine, but it's behind more grind walls. There's a point where enough is enough.

 

If the gameplay was good enough to justify grinds like this then I would be more ok with it (ie Monster Hunter, where skill is a major component of gameplay, and Destiny, where gameplay iin generali s just more solid and dynamic), but it's not, and it's starting to get really really old. I lost track of how many times I've been grinding XP to level guns while slowly dozing off because of how monotonous it gets.

 

Yes I would like some end game content. My clan is gearing up for it and I'm really excited. Also can I say how exciting that Monster hunter thing sounds? Or other ideas like that!

 

Not exactly sure why it was absolutely needed for you to specify that you're a girl, but I agree with most of your points.

I don't consider myself a casual warframe player, and even then, I have issues keeping up with the grind some time, and when I actually sit and think about it, I have no idea how someone more casual than myself or my clannies could ever keep up with all the grind when we're barely making it...

Some grind walls need to fall, that's for sure, starting with fusion costs. I have thousands of cores, thousands of duplicates, but the cost needed to fuse stuff is just ridiculous for newer/more casual players, some things need to change.

 

Yes, One of the things I didn't get to was how there are times, I feel soooo behind my other clan members! But I think that's true in most games, lol

 

p.s.

Like some said, what's your gender got to say in your post? Guys have it just as tough as you do, working dads etc.

And I do hope by 'having a life' you mean work, family and finance. 

 

You are very right. And I have lots of male friends that do just that. Play games on their limited off time.  Again as I sasid before I obviously goofed and thought that calling myself a gamer girl was a little less harsh and cute then "Angry gamer sends rage at devs!" lol

 

Again, all I can do is apologize for misleading you.

 

There has always been a somewhat hefty grind associated with this game...but I USED to be able to do it on MY terms....Now some of it is play with others or else and play when we tell you to.... so yeah....when it goes that way I AM forced to buy whatever it is IF I want it at all.

 

From what others have said to me, this is actually really across the board. I wish there was at least some kind of catering to "play at my own speed" people. Like maybe better log in rewards for people who don't log in as often or something. Like boosters or the like. I don't know, just throwing ideas at the wall!

[SIDESTRE4M]

Isn't what OP says the same reason what people tell why they are using bots in MMOs?

("I don't have time, but I need progress")

 

I'm working myself and yes, without affinity tickets, it's a hassle, and I'm still playing a lot, even with a minimum of 9 hours/day absence from life due to work plus other things.

Honestly I'm often just writing here via smartphone.

 

But I don't see what has changed much from a year ago. We got worse droptables maybe and the Syndicates... but when the Syandanas are the only problem regarding this... I managed to rank up four Syndicates.

 

If OP (I'm just assuming) spends those mentioned 25$ every month, the prime access accessory pack would do wonders. Three months double affinity/credits straight. No plat needed to buy credits (who ever did that?) and level time cut in half. Still 25$ left to spend for platinum if needed.

 

EDIT: I hope this don't escalate in some feminist discussion.

Edited March 22, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M

[MagPrime]

Cute someone deleted my post.

Mine as well.

 

I'd really like to know what gender has to do with being a casual gamer and how it relates to the grind in Warframe.  Not trolling, being totally serious.

[faustias]

Moderators regularly hide and/or delete posts. I've had many of my own posts hidden/deleted and I know this is the case because they admitted to it.

oh... alright. gonna note that to myself.