Maintain The Habitat. Maintain The Operator.

[[DE]Momaw]

Anybody else fascinated by the little teasing tidbits we've gotten this update?  I've always been of the opinion that "we", the consciousness in play, is not inside the warframe. That it's not a suit so much as a puppet or avatar. I mean it's even in the name: The Operator. He always says it in caps. That's our title. We're operating something. Ordis' new line "Maintain the habitat. Maintain the Operator. Mobilize the Tenno" paired with "I've kept the orbiter safely hidden in the void", makes me more certain than ever. Our actual self or whatever is left of it is on the Orbiter half of the ship, which Ordis is keeping in the void, while the Liset's purpose is to ferry the warframe and armaments around.  Add in  Rhino Prime's codex entry, where we see an implication that the subjects/victims from the Zariman were kept around even though they appeared dead, and apparently were able to take control over the rampaging warframe prototype. Almost like their body was in a comatose state but their consciousness was still active in a liberated state and could inhabit other bodies. ("Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream.")

 

The most fascinating stuff about U16 for me isn't the raid or the pvp overhauls, it's the hints that DE is finally going to start explaining WTF is going on :)

Edited March 22, 2015 by Momaw

[Azure_Kytia]

I thought this is something they explained as a primary concept in one of the earliest dev streams?

It's nice that it's finally being fleshed out though.

[Doom_Bunny]

Ordis is one of the best things in U16. He acts like his memories are all over the place providing small bits of lore. It's great.

[[DE]Artarrwen]

One of my first thoughts as to what Warframes and Tenno are was indeed that Warframes are the proxies we control and possess that represent the Tenno in the real world, the tools we use to influence it, whilst we ourselves are hidden somewhere far from reach of our enemies. That does explain quite a few things.

[Sziklamester]

I can't tell so much because I missed the utility mod everhaul but seems they doesn't want change the low mods. The focus system still not implemeted and the underwater tileset also not. The other stuff aren't bad but I waited something.

[Krion112]

Though the concept of the Warframes only being proxies, and that the true Tenno lies on some construction elsewhere does explain a lot, it also raises several questions:

 

How does the void energy of the Tenno power the Warframes if a Tenno is not inside?

 

How does the awakening from cryo-stasis (ie, the introduction to the game) work if we were not the ones in danger?

 

Vor has mentioned ripping our corpses from the 'metal womb' of the Warframe, so how does that tie in if we're really not in the Warframe?

 

Seems unlikely, but I suppose we have yet to see where it goes.

 

Personally, with this in mind, I feel like the Tenno are essentially the Warframe Slots we buy, then we equip them with the Warframe suits we build, and then we control them to play the game. Essentially making it a cross between the Mono- and Poly- Tenno theme; you play a single individual that controls many other individuals.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Krion112

[[DE]Momaw]

Vor has mentioned ripping our corpses from the 'metal womb' of the Warframe, so how does that tie in if we're really not in the Warframe?

 

The codex entry for one of the old events had introspection from Vor where he said that despite ripping apart warframes he could never discover what actually made them work. He may not actually know what we are, any more than we do. The Queens also rebuke him with something like "destroy these eggs before they hatch" when they find out about his projects to understand the Tenno. Destroying the warframes in their pods before they could be powered up i.e. connected to an Operator who can use them. The warframes seem to be kept in cryo stasis when not being used, as seen from the tutorial and also in your own dojo barracks. Possibly because they have organic aspects that would decay over time, possibly because they would run amok as seen in Rhino Prime's codex.

[TVerres]

Though the concept of the Warframes only being proxies, and that the true Tenno lies on some construction elsewhere does explain a lot, it also raises several questions:

 

How does the void energy of the Tenno power the Warframes if a Tenno is not inside?

 

How does the awakening from cryo-stasis (ie, the introduction to the game) work if we were not the ones in danger?

 

Vor has mentioned ripping our corpses from the 'metal womb' of the Warframe, so how does that tie in if we're really not in the Warframe?

 

Seems unlikely, but I suppose we have yet to see where it goes.

 

Personally, with this in mind, I feel like the Tenno are essentially the Warframe Slots we buy, then we equip them with the Warframe suits we build, and then we control them to play the game. Essentially making it a cross between the Mono- and Poly- Tenno theme; you play a single individual that controls many other individuals.

1) The Void is a mystical thing. Don't question the Void or it will consume you.

2) Well the Warframe itself is valuable as it is, so it would be bad to lose that to the Grineer. It's also possible that our consciousness was sealed away with the Warframe as well. See: Don't question the Void.

3) Vor and his like may not actually know of the Warframe's internal workings and assumes that they are suits with people. We've even thought this. The only people to know are "us" as the consciousness, Lotus, Salad V, and whoever else was involved with experimenting on Warframes with Salad and the like.

 

This itself makes a lot more sense when you think about it, because of our ability to change Warframes. If we were the Warframe itself, then we would be allowed only a single Warframe to simulate this. If we just happened to choose one to control, then we can swap out at any given time in the ship. This is the most logical thing I can think of. Then again, the Void. So who knows.

[Katakuna]

One of my first thoughts as to what Warframes and Tenno are was indeed that Warframes are the proxies we control and possess that represent the Tenno in the real world, the tools we use to influence it, whilst we ourselves are hidden somewhere far from reach of our enemies. That does explain quite a few things.

 

That's more or less been my headcanon for a while now.  We, the player, are in the universe somewhere.  We control our Tenno from afar.  Like Overminds or something.

 

I like to believe this new line from Ordis helps validate that.

[Krion112]

I'm trying to see where this leads; following this concept to the source. It'd be quite ingenious for DE to have fooled us into thinking the Tenno were in the suits all along. Or, perhaps the Tenno are the ones in the suits, and we're something that control the Tenno. 

 

However, explain the part in Excalibur's codex where they mention building a frame around us; what is this frame if it's not a Warframe? Is it metaphorical; we use the Warframes but do not wear them? Or is it something else?

 

Also, I was about to ask about the Ascaris, but then it occurred to me; it could've taken control of us even if it was only attached to the Warframe, as it could've traced the signal and gotten to us. That's probably why we had the length of time we had to disable it; it'd probably be very difficult to track such a signal to its source.

 

The next question: what of Mirage then? Why was Lotus so emotional about the loss of Mirage? Is she herself perhaps not understanding of what the Tenno truly are?

 

I must say, though, this is shaping up to be something; Corrupted Vor is also making me think because he too is now scarred by the Void, and he can die and regenerate as he claims to be but energy that cannot be destroyed, and yet he retains a physical form that can be killed many times.

 

-snip-

 

-snip-

Hang on just a moment...

if 'Corpse' and 'Metal Womb' means 'Warframe' and 'Cryopod', and not 'Tenno' and 'Warframe' as I thought, then that changes everything and then it makes sense.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Krion112

[Nikodemos]

I've just been sitting here in my Liset, hours on end screenshotting and recording every single interesting dialogue bit that Ordis has said so far, not to mention recording EVERYTHING in the new Chroma quest. It's all very fascinating stuff, and I've been planning to make a thread compiling all this information once I've finished the quest.

 

Anyway, aside the lovely witticisms, jokes and other commentary, there's a few that have really caught my attention.

 

"Operator, I think I remember something from the Old War. I remember there were lies, but I'm not sure what."

 

This is interesting just for the fact that Ordis' memory seems to be coming back over time, further hinting towards DE's intention to really reveal what's going on with all of us Tenno. Added with Simaris' offer to restore and heal Ordis, this is just making me really hyped for what is to come.

 

"Operator, I've been thinking. My misplaced memories and damaged communication systems. What if... Ordis did those things?"

 

Extremely interesting. The prospect that Ordis had damaged himself in order to keep some secrets hidden away hints towards something very menacing having happened with Tenno which they wanted to keep as a secret. Of course this could just be a red herring to throw us off, but I can't deny the possibility of this.

 

Now these two are different from the rest. Ordis is very monotone and threatening sounding while speaking these, and they differ greatly from the type of talk Ordis usually speaks in.

 

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."

 

I believe this ties in with the previous mention of Ordis damaging himself to keep some secrets lost forever. Something in his corrupted databanks is popping up and causing him to act like this, perhaps a warning from the past made by Tenno?

 

"Maintain the habitat. Maintain the Operator. Mobilize the Tenno."

 

This seems to be a snippet of communications dialogue from a time long ago, I presume it to be around the time when Tenno were starting to enter cryosleep, or during some mission that failed catastrophically. Something bad happened to the Operator, really bad. Other Tenno had to be mobilized to keep him safe, and Ordis / some other entity sent out an order to keep the Operator alive until backup could arrive.

 

I'm hoping that once I'm done constructing the systems and the frame itself I can speculate a little more on these insights, and I already have a growing suspicion that Chroma is intimately connected to the Sentients somehow. This all seems to foreshadow the coming of the Sentients, I'm super stoked at least.

Edited March 22, 2015 by NikodemosTheMan

[Blakrana]

My take on Ordis' lines is more that he was unfortunate enough to encounter a Sentient directly.

 

Now, that's bad enough when we consider what the Sentient do to advanced technology in terms of weapon and armour tech; it's how they gave the Orokin such a hard time. However...that's even worse when you're a piece of self-aware technology.

 

So what if the lies...allude to a Sentient trying to subvert him? The vague recollection that something was wrong.

And the potential self-destructive actions? What better way to flee something if you make it unable to interface with you, and can't haunt you if you don't know it exists?

 

Making the other two lines possible Madness Mantras. On the one hand, something to try and convince him to not question his missing chunks of memory. And the Maintain line...would be what he tells himself whilst resisting outside influences during the attempted purge.

 

Theory, admittedly, but still...I'm more inclined to give Ordis the benefit of the doubt than assume he's a glorified sleeper agent. It's kind of awesome that he could be the only AI in the known setting to go up against what might literally be Robot Cthulu (Far as AI are concerned) and survive "mostly" intact.

 

As for anything else, the case can be made that Operator still can apply to the 'animating consciousness' stance of matters, but I can see where you're coming from. Either one would be rather interesting all the same. As it is, we've only got so much to work with and anything even vaguely Post Human does not appear well received. Can't exactly see why, but I have my biases as I've mentioned before. Heck, it's literally because of the ability to understand Warframes as little more than a glorified mask that Tenno wear to varying ends that I enjoy the game so much.

[EvexNight]

It's all a very distinct possability.   My thoughts on all this as of this post is as follows.  

 

Based on Ember's codex we know there was a ship that wasn't supposed to have returned but it did.  One this ship were children hidden away.  We can assume that if these children were on the ship when it entered the void, then the void itself caused a mutation either physically or mentally to the children.  More on that a bit later.    This children were then moved to a research facility and then studied.   The prime frames were then built around each of these childrens unique abilities to try and harness them.   Eventually these prime frames and the children, now most likely adults die.   It's very possible that the rhino we see going berzerk is the original rhino operator, one of the children.  It's also possible that the beserk rhino might have been a first attempt to remotely control a war frame.  By this point though the Orkin have moved on to mass producing the frames.

 

Fast forward to the present day where you have Alard V hacking warframes to pieces.  One of the lines in the PS4 trailer profit has him mention core componets go towards the Zanuka project.  Alad V himself controls Zanuka remotelly through the collar and visor he wears.   Now who else wears something over there eyes that we've seen.  The answer is the captives and people we see around the relay station.  What if these people are warframe operators, and these pieces of eye wear are direct feeds from a warframes optics, or sensors of the surrounding area.  I'd honestlly need to read up on the codex entries in order to get a better picture, and some sleep would most likely help as well.  

 

 

I believe prime is a short hand version for primeval, which makes the prime frames prototypes and hence more powerful.  The normal frames we use are then mass production versions of the prime frames.  Hence why they can be easilly be built from blueprints.   Remember how I said some of the children mutated well following this line of thought we can believe Ember was pyrokenetic, nyx was a psychic, volt was electrokenetic and frost was cryokenetic. 

[Akavakaku]

I don't think the proto-Rhino was a Zimarian survivor. It ceased its attack when it was exposed to the Zimarians, presumably one of them took control of it. Why would the character in the Rhino' bio see it as an opportunity for profit unless combining the Zimarian survivors with warframes was a novel idea? But the thing is, the bio conflicts with the idea that warframe powers are inherent to the Zimarians. So I think the main character's burns in the Ember' bio are a red herring. The Zimarian was a damaged ship, and if Warframe has taught me anything, it's that damaged ships catch fire. The Ember frame itself has fire powers, not the Tenno controlling her; otherwise that Tenno would be able to summon fire using any frame.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I have already confirmed that Tenno are humanoid beings that wear the warframes and can change their gender at will to use both male and female warframes.

 

Awhile ago, there were two prevailing theories as to what the Tenno were and how they used warframes. The first theory is that each warframe in your arsenal contains a different Tenno, and that Tenno cannot switch warframes. However, this theory was revealed to be false at the end of "The Limbo Theorem" quest line, in which Ordis implies that you are a single Tenno switching between the warframes in your arsenal. This evidence is further backed up by the "hidden messages" quest line, in which you recover the components of the Mirage warframe to wear for yourself.

 

The second theory is that you play as one Tenno and switch between the warframes in your arsenal. What Ordis says about Limbo and what Lotus says about Mirage would seem to confirm this theory, but the one problem with it is that you play as both male and female warframes that have clearly defined sexual characteristics. How is it possible that one Tenno can use both male and female warframes?

 

One explanation for this is that the Tenno are not humanoid, and do not have genders. This theory is proven false in two ways. First of all, we see Tenno outside of their warframes in cryopods on defense missions, and they are very clearly humanoid, and second, if Tenno didn't have genders, why do the warframes have clearly defined sexual characteristics?

 

So how does one Tenno use both male and female warframes? The answer is deceptively simple. Who says Tenno aren't capable of changing their gender? Certain animals here on earth are capable of doing the same. The Tenno we see in defense missions would seem to support this as well, since all of them appear to be male.

[[DE]Momaw]

 

I have already confirmed that Tenno are humanoid beings that wear the warframes

 

First of all, we see Tenno outside of their warframes in cryopods on defense missions, and they are very clearly humanoid, and second, if Tenno didn't have genders, why do the warframes have clearly defined sexual characteristics?

 

 

1.) What about that precludes the idea presented in this thread?  Why can't the bodies you see in the cryopods be Tenno, who are Operators, dreaming in a death-like sleep while they operate a warframe remotely?

 

2.) It seems like the construction of a warframe uses, at some point along the process, a real person. The process is about augmenting with technology and warping with technocyte. A female shaped warframe isn't actually female, lacking the biological functions that would make it so. It is shaped that way because the victim/volunteer/pattern the warframe started from was a female person.

 

 

All conjecture, but it kind of fits.

[EvexNight]

After reading the codex entries. I've refind my opinion into the following. Got a bit carried away in writing it. 

 

 

The orkin were in a war with the sentients and they were losing.  In order to try and fight the sentients they turned to the void.  One of the ships that was meant to transverse the void via a fold from saturn to the Outer gates.   When the ship reappeared it was put into quarenten and the principle investigator a woman known as kaleen broke protocol by stepping on board and made contact with the children. These children were only the recent victims of being tainted and twisted by the void.  They were no longer orokin, but what the orkin had come to call the afflicted from what would become known as the void era.    

These afflicted were moved to a research facilties where they were experimented on. Many would call the experiments done of these afflicted cruel. Then again the public didn't need to know what happened in the shadows.  With the Orokin losing the war they turned to the afflicted. They begin by building exo-armor for the afflicted, a focus for there abilites. These armors were built out of various materials, rubedo, oxium, ferrite, pollymers, alloys while some required rarer materials like argon crystals to contain the afflicteds abilities.  The first of the these tenno would be known as excaliber; the first warframe.  The next would be Nyx to follow in excalibers steps.  They would be sent in with regular foot soldiers at times, others they were lone operatives on the battlefield. Eventually the orokin had enough data from the prime frames to begin mass production of the warframes.   

These frames were built to be remotelly operated safelly away from the battlefield. A dispossable army where the operator could easily inhabit a new frame, if its current one had been destroyed or if the mission required a different frame to be used. Even with the tenno the orkin were fighting a losing war, in an attempt to preserve what little they had left they built vaults inside the void, the one place the sentients couldn't reach.  Along with there artifacts they sealed away there most valuable asset the tenno and there warframes.

[CriticalFumble]

All well and good, but how do we explain the other things that indicate that (in cannon, that is) that whatever goes into the field is linked to a Tenno's mortality?  Mirage and Limbo are treated as dead people, not wrecked frames vehicles.  

 

Well, ok, there is an explanation.  If we changed into consciousnesses projecting life after the Old War, killing the Orokin and stealing their tech in order to use what amounts to UAVs, that could explain the deaths in the past but effective immortality in the present.  Would also explain why the orbiter seems smaller now, with a pod for the operator modified in.  Does not, however, explain the lost memories.  

 

I'm perfectly comfortable suspending disbelief (read: ignoring) about the mismatched gender frames and respawns.  

Edited March 23, 2015 by CriticalFumble

[EvexNight]

All well and good, but how do we explain the other things that indicate that (in cannon, that is) that whatever goes into the field is linked to a Tenno's mortality?  Mirage and Limbo are treated as dead people, not wrecked frames vehicles.  

 

Well, ok, there is an explanation.  If we changed into consciousnesses projecting life after the Old War, killing the Orokin and stealing their tech in order to use what amounts to UAVs, that could explain the deaths in the past but effective immortality in the present.  Would also explain why the orbiter seems smaller now, with a pod for the operator modified in.  Does not, however, explain the lost memories.  

 

I'm perfectly comfortable suspending disbelief (read: ignoring) about the mismatched gender frames and respawns.  

 

This can be explained by Valkers Codex entry actually.  "Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing." - Valkyr Codex.    Notice the phase original Valkyr this eludes that before the frame was mass produced there was an original or the first vlkyr who had an actual operator inside.   If we look at Limbo and Mirage we can also assume that those were the original or prototype warframes for that type, as such they had a person one of the "afflicted" inside of them.  When the original warframe was destroyed that person died.  

[[DE]Momaw]

All well and good, but how do we explain the other things that indicate that (in cannon, that is) that whatever goes into the field is linked to a Tenno's mortality?

 

Perhaps a Tenno operating a warframe is unable to get out of it without the proper equipment. If a frame is disabled on the field, their consciousness is still stuck wherever that frame went down. So the Tenno attached to is now both unable to find the way back to their real body and unable to find a different frame to jump into (which is what the arsenal provides). Sufficiently brutal damage to the frame would remove whatever anchors the Tenno to it, and leave the operator in a braindead state. So Mirage's operator's body still existed when the frame was destroyed by the Sentients, but their actual person was lost.

 

More speculation.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

The idea that Tenno in cryopods operate their frames remotely actually seems pretty sound. Although, it would still leave two questions.

 

1. If there's no Tenno inside, wouldn't it be more efficient for the Orokin to build the warframes without genders?

 

2. All the Tenno in the cryopods on defense missions appear to be male. Wouldn't this mean that all Tenno are male then?

 

I can see the Orokin constructing the warframes in the image of their first user, like how Excalibur was constructed in the image of Hayden Tenno, although this would mean that there would have had to be female Tenno at some point. My theory as to why all the Tenno in cryopods are male is that when entering cryo, they switch to being male because doing so helps them better resist the cold somehow.

 

I guess it would be possible for Tenno to be able to change their gender and pilot the warframes from inside their cryopods.

[[DE]Momaw]

The idea that Tenno in cryopods operate their frames remotely actually seems pretty sound. Although, it would still leave two questions.

 

1. If there's no Tenno inside, wouldn't it be more efficient for the Orokin to build the warframes without genders?

 

2. All the Tenno in the cryopods on defense missions appear to be male. Wouldn't this mean that all Tenno are male then?

 

I can see the Orokin constructing the warframes in the image of their first user, like how Excalibur was constructed in the image of Hayden Tenno, although this would mean that there would have had to be female Tenno at some point. My theory as to why all the Tenno in cryopods are male is that when entering cryo, they switch to being male because doing so helps them better resist the cold somehow.

 

I guess it would be possible for Tenno to be able to change their gender and pilot the warframes from inside their cryopods.

 

Or it could just be an oversight on the part of the art department, who never really expected people to pay that much attention :)

[Morec0]

The idea that Tenno in cryopods operate their frames remotely actually seems pretty sound. Although, it would still leave two questions.

 

1. If there's no Tenno inside, wouldn't it be more efficient for the Orokin to build the warframes without genders?

 

2. All the Tenno in the cryopods on defense missions appear to be male. Wouldn't this mean that all Tenno are male then?

 

I can see the Orokin constructing the warframes in the image of their first user, like how Excalibur was constructed in the image of Hayden Tenno, although this would mean that there would have had to be female Tenno at some point. My theory as to why all the Tenno in cryopods are male is that when entering cryo, they switch to being male because doing so helps them better resist the cold somehow.

 

I guess it would be possible for Tenno to be able to change their gender and pilot the warframes from inside their cryopods.

 

1. Recall the Warframes are not so much built as grown and shaped out of the Technocyte - as is seemingly stated in the Rhino Prime Codex. Likely that Technocyte wants to take on some kind of form comfortable to it - and, again, we have the theory that these Warframes simply HAVE to be shaped a certain way.

 

2. Representations will be representations. I think that's just one of those things that isn't sort out.

 

I think ya'll're reading A LITTLE too much into this here.

 

I continue to see it like this: do you switch genders when you play as a female or male character in a video game? No. However the Warframes function they don't switch what the Tenno are, they are simply what they (the Warframes) themselves are. As for how the Tenno fit in there, no one knows, but I like the theory (if we are physical) that the Warframe partially consumes the wearer and incorporates them into itself (ala Guyver) and then when they want to switch just regurgitates them whole.

 

As for the "maintain the Orbiter, maintain the habitat, maintain the operator" thing - come on, if the Orbiter and habitat ISN'T maintained while we're on the Liset we're very well not going to be maintained ourselves, are we? Again, reading in A LITTLE too much, imo.

[Tymerc]

Operator, Ordis wonders... what are you thinking about?

[Blakrana]

Ordis had an interesting quip a few moments go, as of this writing:

 

"You are the Tenno. You are the Operator. Ordis is the Cephalon. Ordis is the ship."

 

Deadpan delivery like the other mentioned quotes, and I'm a little curious whether it could be seen as another 'Mantra', perhaps. Certainly has a 'This is what is' feel to it.