SilentMobius Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 That's not the games fault on that. The game encourages you to play with people to experience more challenging environments. The PEOPLE require you to do those things. And if you are grouping with those sort of people, forgive my overly harsh attitude here, you need to root out the cancer and get away from them. I've been we my clan.... 6 years roughly. Never once have any of us felt forced into anything. If you don't want to play, don't play. If you want a team, ask. If not now, maybe people will be up for something else on another game, or maybe not. It's not the game's job to make sure people maintain a good code of conduct, it's the game's job to create the environment In which YOU decide wether or not the people you're with are worth your time. To me, it seems you've had a lot of bad luck with people you play with, but that doesn't give you the ability to declare Raids and like content aren't healthy content. (A good example of unhealthy content is the Completionist cape from Runescape. Holy crap those Reqs lead to extreme elitism) Cool, I'm glad you're lucky, I have 20 years of experience of games that turned to S#&$ for me and others. My point is I'm _way_ past the point of wasting my time on another bunch of internet 'friends'. "Raids" as defined as "content that requires teaming" is a stepping stone to problems. I started playing a game that didn't require teaming, I've been playing a game for a couple of years that didn't require teaming, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that new content doesn't require teaming. I not asking DE to remove the 8 player raids, I'm not asking for anything to be taken from the people who want the whole technicolor-toddlers-daytrip-experience. I'm just saying why not make then scale down to 1 player. ... just like everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Add me. I completed the raid. It requires as much teamwork as there is individual competence and strength. The broken Sevati Sekhara Emblem on my left shoulder is proof that I am the strongest and as the strongest I can confidently say that the strongest in the world do not stand alone but he is backed by allies as strong as he is with an unshakable will and determination with compassion for each other. You have only wasted your time if you give up. o -o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killazang Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 The reason the raid is't scaled is because DE wanted it to be playable with anywhere from 4 players to 8. Less players increases the challenge present. If it scaled, that would be moot. If you can't play with others, just ignore the raid. This isn't like WoW, where the best gear will come from raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annivenne Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 If you can't play with others, just ignore the raid. This isn't like WoW, where the best gear will come from raids. But it is! At least, until arcanes become available somewhere else. No matter how weak they are, they don't have any substitutes. Kind of direct upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midas Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 The raid is easy, stop being selfish for your own goals. A raid is a raid. If it were solo able I would quit this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)B0XMAN517 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 You know, even if I'll die tomorrow, nobody will care, save but maybe one-two people. I bet nobody else will even notice. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) The raid is easy, stop being selfish for your own goals. A raid is a raid. If it were solo able I would quit this game. So you're saying that forced multiplayer should be the only way because you say so and the people asking for content to be made available to a wider base of players are the selfish ones? Do you see the hypocrisy there? Edited March 24, 2015 by SilentMobius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)B0XMAN517 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Removed double post error. Edited March 24, 2015 by (PS4)B0XMAN517 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krion112 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I can't believe this is even an argument; what is the problem if they made it so raids started scaling lower if you have less than four people? It does nothing but allow players that don't want the headache of dealing with other players play this content. And before you try to keep shoving the mantra that Warframe is multiplayer oriented down our throats, I must tell you that this is completely and utterly false. Warframe isn't multiplayer oriented, it is just player oriented; it let's you play as you get the most joy from the game. Enjoy co-op? Go ahead and PUG or get friends together. Like a solo experience? There's a built in solo-mode so you play alone, and you can get back-up from Specters instead of other Tenno. Just about everything in the game you can accomplish on your own, with the only exception being the Raid. You can even make a one-man clan, and yet you aren't allowed to do a one-man raid. I have said it before: DE Has absolutely nothing to lose if they had the game scale a raid to be easier after there are less than four players present. You may argue that I can 'choose' to not do a Raid, however this statement is flawed in that certainly I could not choose to do a raid, but in doing so I'm gated in content that is not redeemed anywhere else in the game. There is literally nowhere else in the game where you can either acquire Arcanes or acquire something that does what the Arcanes do. In a game which has the core functionality of allowing a player to play as they get the most entertainment, this is completely unacceptable. I hate Kubrows, yet we have Sentinels for players that don't want to deal or don't like Kubrows. Hek, in the past, [DE]Rebecca has defended players under mastery rank 2 acquiring end-game content early on, by means of obtaining Rhino and Boltor Prime, under the idea that Warframe let's you choose your play-style. However, Raid shoves this concept into a muddy pit by both forcing a certain play-style and being the only location for its type of content. This is unlike anything else in the game and should either be changed or be given an equivalent that allows solo players to acquire items of similar strength and effect. If Warframe wants to keep its glowing concept of allowing the player to pick their play-style, it has to do something about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulzscha Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Moved to the proper section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Let me get this straight. A dude that doesnt like playing with other people goes on to play an online game to NOT play with other people and now is saying that this online game adding a mission type to use the fact that it's an online game is killing the game? Dude, go buy Bloodbourne and play it. Seriously. This game gives you the option to play alone, yes, but that doesnt mean it centers on this concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valar.Morghulis Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 And the raid is not even good, it is a very poor attempt at what a raid should be, which doesn't help. I do understand your concern, but considering how large amount of content in the game is not soloable (most endless modes for example), it is really not surprising that DE might be pushing towards mostly MP related content. You can solo 95% of the Starmap including most all of the "endless missions" (Surv/Def/Exc/Intcp) you just may not be able to reach 20+ minutes on all the planets. With a reasonable knowledge and skill and decent mods that be obtained by farming or tradeing. The only missions that are probably out of reach are Tower 3/4 Endless Missions (Def/Surv/Intcp), Raid and some Nightmare Modes. Some missions maybe significantly less rewarding solo such as OD Vault Runs or any higher level endless mission that you will not be able to reach the C-Loot cycle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossRam Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 So, eh... it's became a feedback. Cool. Using the opportunity, I want to thank SilentMobius and Annivenne. They have points and opinions that are very close to mine, and they saved me the time to answer to a lot of posts in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-InV-igo95862 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Raid is definitely terrible and does not emphasise on Warframe strong points. "Ninjas play for free" More like like "Space Wizards sit on pressure pads" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeis Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 it's my personal thought, but i think this is the actual void that is killing the game, this is the only place to get equipment ( in mission) and there is too many "need taxi for X alert" on mid-high level planet, for rank 5-6 ok but i already saw a rank 12 looking for a taxi for SEDNA! i think this isn't normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelSD Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Raid as a concept (no strory, no reward, etc.) is terrible. The same is true for void, it became way to common and easy. People do more void missions and regular ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmode Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) I totally hear you OP and I feel the same way, somewhat. I primarily play with two RL buds. When they are raiding during the week day in World of Warcraft, I have no issue soloing missions, trying my hand at solo survivals and defenses... but I'll definitely use the match maker system for Kiste runs or Xini runs. If I want to run a T4 defense or T3 survival or something, and I want to go a long while, Ill group up. It isnt that hard, and isnt that bad. With all of that said, I prefer more solo play, more DIFFICULT solo play, but definitely "beatable" solo play in Warframe. I can deal with not having some arcane enchantment from the raid. Fine. If they put in raid exclusive mods, weapons, warframes, prime parts, blueprints, or resources that can only be acquired in the raid, I'll re-think my future with Warframe. Why not post on the forums for other players? I get that you don't wanna play with randoms, but as you said, this is primarily a multiplayer game. Raids are typically all for more than just 1 or 2 players. To this: I disagree. Yes, Warframe is better played with other people (your experience can be a lot better...) but it isnt primarily multiplayer. No where does it say that, and it isn't an MMO. It just happens to be online. Diablo 3 is an online game, but who is to say that its MEANT to be played primarily with other folks? Hell, the seasonal solo leaderboards garner more attention than the 4-man leader boards. That says something. Edit: Forgive the multiple replies I have made following this one. I read through most of the thread and replied as I came across points that I wanted to address :) Edited March 25, 2015 by cesmode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmode Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 And the raid is not even good, it is a very poor attempt at what a raid should be, which doesn't help. I do understand your concern, but considering how large amount of content in the game is not soloable (most endless modes for example), it is really not surprising that DE might be pushing towards mostly MP related content. I knew it would not be good. And its hilarious looking in recruitment chat....people are whining and whining about the raid. I hear it is difficult at times, but I simply don't think a raid is suited for this game. This game is a Diablo 3 game. Hack and slash for loot and resources. Raids are for MMOs. Leave them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmode Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I expect the raid to be Archwing drama 2.0. Great idea, bad conception, that will take a long time to be fixed or never will be.... like AW. I don't know why archwing gets so much hate. Needs work, but its pretty cool if you think about it (and I was SO against it before it launched). It only has a dozen or so missions, a future boss, one or two places to farm for things...but its NEW. The rest of warframe is well thought out, mostly, because its several years in the making. Give archwing time. They will add more, and fix things like identifying loot in a 3D space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmode Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Raids game killer for solo players? Is there any game that offers top end raid-like content as solo? I know that you could solo lower level raids once level cap increased, top level ones still needed full raid party. I wish there was a game like this. Im waiting for a game that has exceptionally difficult end-game solo content that rewards you well. Don't care if its an MMO or Warframe. Although, the games closest to this model would be Warframe and Diablo 3...and theres a reason I have 1000+ hours in D3. Even though Wildstar is on the brink of dying, in my opinion, one of their developers said it best: Short session gameplay. The majority of the playerbase, at least in an MMO, plays solo and has 15-20 minutes to play, or ~ an hour. Give them worthwhile endgame progression content that is accomplished 15 minutes to an hour of gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmode Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Literally DE has nothing to lose and everything to gain if they had Raids scale towards the number of players in a party. There's no reason to gate solo players like this. It may not be bad now, but if they start gating Warframes and weapons behind Raids, then there might be a problem. I agree and you hit two points. -Make the difficulty scale on the amount of players you have. I only pug for star chart missions or 20-40 minute endless void missions, ocassional 60 minute... But when Im pushing my own progression, I only play with my two RL buds. Id love it if the difficulty scaled to our number of 3... -Do not put anything else behind a raid wall. Up until this point, everything has been attainable solo and is probably one of the brighter spots of warframe. It has a small barrier to entry for newer players, and no one ever feels like they cant get something. If I need to group with 7 other people to get a prime part or a weapon, you essentially have destroyed the most unique thing about your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoboso Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I don't like how we have to have certain frames and everyone on the team has to (pretty much) constantly spam their specific abilities over and over again. if you don't do this you will get blasted by one shot from these high level enemies. Either way Raids need more work but I believe DE will make it better....hopefully. This will probably be fixed with balance 1111.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePresident777 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 How does an optional mission kill a game for someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsmith Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Raids are optional and they don't have that great of stuff, I'd hardly call that a game killer, you can skip then and not have to worry. I typically don't like to group with players in other games but Warframe doesn't really both me for grouping. Except when I'm hunting so rep items and someone just rushes to the end so I don't have time. Edited March 25, 2015 by Lightsmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inez Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 How does an optional mission kill a game for someone? Because someone else is having fun. And we can't have that. You must be new to these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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