Whats With Camping Becoming The 'default' Way To Play Survival?

[immolator1001]

Lets be fair if your conclave is 1xx-2xx which is for most new players venturing through the chart then saturn is pretty hard. Now if they're at a conclave of 1k and doing saturn ill spit out my coffeee lol...

I remember when survival missions first got implemented my conclave was only 300 and i could'nt make it past 6 minutes failed 2 missions at the 3-4 minute mark. thankfully 1 of my friends came along and helped me to get 9 minutes for the event..

People I've noticed do it are the ones who are 8+ and actually have all the mods and weapons and stuff do to it efficiently.

[CarrotSalad]

If you don't play the way I play, you're playing wrong.

This has been around since rushers vs explorers.

Great point. about a year ago people were making the same arguments about explorers and rushing through the missions is the only way to play. This community sometimes ughhh -.-

 

And what happened after all that forum noise though? we got an event where we had to run 100+ invasion missions.

I was person who enjoyed exploring every room and every corner of a map suddenly being pushed into the rush playstyle. A normal mission would take 30 minutes now i had to rush it in 3-5 or just miss out on the event reward. I eventually did miss out because the rushing playstyle was damn boring for me. Eventually i just said no more and gaveup the detron/brakk for sake the of fun.

 

As said its a sandbox game you choose your own path and then find people who are in the same mind.

[PureMalice]

Path of least resistance, people habitually do this, goal a, get loot, goal b, level gear, dry, rinse, repeat, very rarely will people go out of their way to do something else for the sake of doing it, I myself prefer the "moving whirlwind death machine" style of play in survivals as well with Nekros, Phage or Amprex, Nukor & Tipedo, no end to the fun to be had.

For strategy and a safe completions sake though, most folks just want it done with relative certainty, and from a strategic standpoint, holding enemies off with the fewest avenues for attack is the way to increase the odds of success given the current way survival works.

Just the way of things man, best bet, find folks who play your way after matches and ask friend them, invite them back if you do the mission again, tell folks you appreciate them NOT playing the way that annoys you, you'd be surprised how often people really appreciate those who are playing for the sake of playing, and less for the min maxing.

[Draciusen]

I've always 'camped' in survivals with my friends since it guarantees all the enemies flock to a single location.

[immolator1001]

Hey people please read the OP and most of this thread its actually got a lot going on in it. I've tried to edit it to keep up with the conversation and clear up what we are talking about here. You're gut reaction to reading the title has probably already posted and I'd like to keep the discussion going! Keep it up!

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

Console players coming over to PC to play. They also are probably still using a controller. Keyboard and mouse can maneuver better than using a controller PC players like to run and console players like to camp.

 

This is just what I experienced.

[immolator1001]

Console players coming over to PC to play. They also are probably still using a controller. Keyboard and mouse can maneuver better than using a controller PC players like to run and console players like to camp.

 

This is just what I experienced.

Not cool. I use a controller.

[(PSN)torvahn]

after they nerfed radial blind and massively increased life support drop rate this essentially killed off an artificial difficulty in survivals, prior to life support being common place you'd have to run and gun in order to get past 60-75 mins because life support dried right up, now its regressed to how effectively you can camp.

I personally loved t4 survivals prior to the ls change and radial blind nerf.

[PureMalice]

Please, not the controller PC war again, I controller play myself and do better in this game than most, M+K or otherwise, this isn't a FPS game where that distinction clearly DOES point towards superiority, but I can assure you, a persons input method does not effect a persons overall skill in any game, if I know the secret snipe spot to one shot everyone playing with a controller, where others don't, doesn't make the K+M any more or less effective.

Always comes down to raw skill, knowledge & ability, and being able to apply it all in as short a time as possible to the greatest effect.

[f3llyn]

This past week, I've seen so many camps. I would be HOSTING the match, with MY key, and people would try to turn it into a camp game. To hell with that.

 

If I wanted to press one button all day, I'd be watching a youtube playlist.

 

Whats worse, I was the Nekros of a party, with a Vauban, Trinity, and Chroma... The camp spot was "no where to be found". They wanted to leave and redo, with MY key. I said hell no. I can go to 40 mins in T4S with an UNRANKED CHROMA. The sad part?  I got the best stats on everything at the end by 40 minutes.

 

What is wrong with you people? Why are you all so afraid to run around, kill things, and have fun?

 

You sit in a corner to get easy stuff, to never use it? Then call the game boring and easy once you cheese it out of everything.

 

I don't get you people. But I guess that's why I can go into late game with melee only, and other people struggle with their fancy boltor primes.

 

Nothings wrong with me. It's just that after my 57th** 40 minute survival run I no longer consider it much of a challenge running around.

 

If I can sit in one spot and rake in the loot while watching a movie I'm going to take that option every time. Win win. It's not my fault DE made the game so tedious.

 

All they need to do is put in a token system like has been requested for at least the last 2 years and that would solve the problem entirely. The community saw the bloated drop tables and low drop rates being a huge issue long before DE did yet they still continued down that path. So you can't blame people for looking for an easy way around it.

 

**May or may not be an exaggeration

Edited March 27, 2015 by f3llyn

[immolator1001]

Nothings wrong with me. It's just that after my 57th** 40 minute survival run I no longer consider it much of a challenge running around.

 

If I can sit in one spot and rake in the loot while watching a movie I'm going to take that option every time. Win win. It's not my fault DE made the game so tedious.

 

All they need to do is put in a token system like has been requested for at least the last 2 years and that would solve the problem entirely. The community saw the bloated drop tables and low drop rates being a huge issue long before DE did yet they still continued down that path. So you can't blame people for looking for an easy way around it.

 

**May or may not be an exaggeration

But I can sit and watch a movie while running around and killing stuff... It's not about a challenge its just fun for me. 

[Shuuro]

Nothings wrong with me. It's just that after my 57th** 40 minute survival run I no longer consider it much of a challenge running around.

 

If I can sit in one spot and rake in the loot while watching a movie I'm going to take that option every time. Win win. It's not my fault DE made the game so tedious.

 

All they need to do is put in a token system like has been requested for at least the last 2 years and that would solve the problem entirely. The community saw the bloated drop tables and low drop rates being a huge issue long before DE did yet they still continued down that path. So you can't blame people for looking for an easy way around it.

 

**May or may not be an exaggeration

 

You can go ahead and do that then, we may not agree on how we get our items, but to each their own. I'd rather not hole up and be bored.

 

But when people are starting to use MY keys, when I'M host, to try and play the run the way THEY want to, like this is supposed to be the NEW NORM...

 

Then I have a definite problem with it. Especially since I began doing Void a lot hunting for prime stuff, and people were trying to camp INSTANTLY in T1S and T3S.

 

Mother of Lotus. I can understand 50 minutes in you would want to strategize. But this? THIS?

 

No.

 

Now. I'll admit. I've tried camping before to see what all the noise was about at Draco, and even E-Gate. I admit it, I was curious.

 

But I nearly fell asleep doing it. In fact, during that event for Tempo Royal. I actually passed out, and my friend had to yell at me over mic to wake the hell up.

 

I don't do them anymore, unless someone begs me to. Which still, I wiggle my way out of it.

 

When the enemies are level 120 and they even begin to hurt chroma's 4k armor. Okay. I get it, a strategy is needed.

 

BUT

 

When people are trying to do this from the start, and on SOMEONE ELSE'S KEY on top of that. That's where we're going to have problems.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Shuuro

[Kz.Prime]

T4S

Played camping / tunneling - left at 60min. What i experienced - boring as well.

Played normally - left ag 60 min.

What i expeienced - sh1t was hectic.

Conclusion: always play the fun one.

[KingTaro]

So far, never had anyone asking where we'll be camping. I usually run T4S for only 40 to 60 min. So no need to camp.

[TennoPain]

Why not grind and take all the loot with camping ...payback you RNG payback i say.

[f3llyn]

You can go ahead and do that then, we may not agree on how we get our items, but to each their own. I'd rather not hole up and be bored.

 

But when people are starting to use MY keys, when I'M host, to try and play the run the way THEY want to, like this is supposed to be the NEW NORM...

 

Then I have a definite problem with it. Especially since I began doing Void a lot hunting for prime stuff, and people were trying to camp INSTANTLY in T1S and T3S.

 

Mother of Lotus. I can understand 50 minutes in you would want to strategize. But this? THIS?

 

No.

 

Now. I'll admit. I've tried camping before to see what all the noise was about at Draco, and even E-Gate. I admit it, I was curious.

 

But I nearly fell asleep doing it. In fact, during that event for Tempo Royal. I actually passed out, and my friend had to yell at me over mic to wake the hell up.

 

I don't do them anymore, unless someone begs me to. Which still, I wiggle my way out of it.

 

When the enemies are level 120 and they even begin to hurt chroma's 4k armor. Okay. I get it, a strategy is needed.

 

BUT

 

When people are trying to do this from the start, and on SOMEONE ELSE'S KEY on top of that. That's where we're going to have problems.

 

All I can tell you is that if you're so concerned about it don't get people from the Recruit channel and/or don't host, just join other peoples games.

 

It's a very simple solution to a problem that always seems to show up in online games. Some one complains that others aren't playing the way that they want them to.

 

"Hey guys I'm going to invite a bunch of random people to my game and demand that they play the way I want them to play instead of getting my party members from a like-minded guild/clan. Because what I want in a group full of random people is all that matters".

 

That's more or less what it comes down to. As far as I'm concerned this issue is a non-issue because the tools to "fix" it are already there.

Edited March 27, 2015 by f3llyn

[Schrefu]

There's no reason for either way to play to be wrong (or right). Relying on movement skills is just as viable as using the map to your advantage. Spamming abilities, using a very high powered weapon, or using every bit of your arsenal are equally viable strategies. Why is it such a bad thing that different people play different ways? Why does it matter that a certain percentage of players tends to favorite a particular way?

 

If you're going to look for a group and want to do the move/run way of playing, just ask for that. If somebody comes along and wants to camp... tell them to look for another group.

 

AFK systems are just like copy-protection systems. They both fail to stop the "miscreants" while at the same time punishing "honest" people. Just like with copy-protection, bot and macro players adapt to the protection system faster than these could be implemented and improved. And just like copy-protection, regular players are being punished in a very opaque and unintuitve way.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Schrefu

[Emeryst]

It seems that you have an issue with public games.

 

If you are hosting the games is it hard to make it clear that you don't want to be camping?

Just because it's what most people want to do doesn't make it a default.

It's just what most people expect when they join a public game.

 

I'm not supporting camping specifically but supporting individual style of play.

Have you tried playing infested defense by casting a giant globe and only using melee?

Have you ran with no warframe powers and just a bow and arrow on boss runs that have invincible phases?

Have you actively searched for void treasure rooms in void captures because that the only place with guaranteed spawn?

All these I have tried because they seem fun to me but obviously few people would agree if I just ran a public game and hoped everyone does the same.

Of course I expect camping and speed runs when I join a public game, most people just want to rush farming and get on with other game modes that interest them more .

 

Get into a large clan or add all the people that agree with you to your friend's list.

The fact is public games are public, you holding the key only gives you some authority to control the flow of the game but you cant dictate how people want to play.

There is little point complaining about camping in survival because that's just how the game mode is set up. Like how you can choose to speed run captures or boss runs. It's not an exploit, just more efficient and inf fact some people think that's more fun than having team members spread out on a survival map diluting spawn, exp and drops.

[f3llyn]

There's no reason for either way to play to be wrong (or right). Relying on movement skills is just as viable as using the map to your advantage. Spamming abilities, using a very high powered weapon, or using every bit of your arsenal are equally viable strategies. Why is it such a bad thing that different people play different ways? Why does it matter that a certain percentage of players tends to favorite a particular way?

 

If you're going to look for a group and want to do the move/run way of playing, just ask for that. If somebody comes along and wants to camp... tell them to look for another group.

 

AFK systems are just like copy-protection systems. They both fail to stop the "miscreants" while at the same time punishing "honest" people. Just like with copy-protection, bot and macro players adapt to the protection system faster than these could be implemented and improved. And just like copy-protection, regular players are being punished in a very opaque and unintuitve way.

 

Because its my key and people need to play the way I want them to. Duh.

[Shuuro]

-snip-

 

My key. My rules.

 

Don't take over my match and we wont have a problem.

 

It hasn't been a problem since recently. Notice that part?

 

Warframe is a game that is also meant to be played with others, random or not. To say it's not, is cutting the game off short.

 

 

-snip

 

 

-Snip-

 

 

This wouldn't even be a problem if people weren't joining others matches and tried to take over, as if camping at the immediate start was the only viable thing to do.

 

If that's what you want to do, host your own key, don't just join a match and immediately tell everyone to "find the sewer"

 

Not everyone on friends lists or Clans/Alliance wants to do what you want to do, WHEN you want to do it. So picking up people from recruit has to happen at some point.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Shuuro

[f3llyn]

My key. My rules.

 

Don't take over my match and we wont have a problem.

 

It hasn't been a problem since recently. Notice that part?

 

Warframe is a game that is also meant to be played with others, random or not. To say it's not, is cutting the game off short.

 

Where did I say it's not meant to be played with others? Strawman much?

 

What I said, more or less, is that if you're having trouble with PUGS (aka pick up group, aka randoms) then don't pug. Play with like minded clan mates or look for like minded people in the recruit channel and add them to your friend list so it's easy to play with them in the future. No where did I ever say you should never play with other people, ever.

 

The solution to your non-issue is already there. If you refuse to do it then it's your own problem.

 

Once again, a non-issue is a non-issue.

 

 

 

This wouldn't even be a problem if people weren't joining others matches and tried to take over, as if camping at the immediate start was the only viable thing to do.

 

If that's what you want to do, host your own key, don't just join a match and immediately tell everyone to "find the sewer"

 

Not everyone on friends lists or Clans/Alliance wants to do what you want to do, WHEN you want to do it. So picking up people from recruit has to happen at some point.

 

 

Then don't start the game until you're sure everyone is on the same page. Geez. You're acting like this is the most complicated thing ever.

 

P.S. It's only a problem because you're purposefully making it one.

Edited March 27, 2015 by f3llyn

[FoxNightscape]

Here's my two cents: I've done about 40 T3S runs for Volt pieces. I'm kinda sick and tired of running it. Honestly. It doesn't feel fun in the least. It feels like I need to grind and slave away to get the Nova and Volt I'm missing just to join some groups. I got kicked for having a normal Nova, not a Prime. 

 

So camping? It's not fun anyway. It's being distilled down to its most base form: Four people sitting there, being bored on a grindwall that I honestly can't even call a game anymore. 

[Shuuro]

Where did I say it's not meant to be played with others? Strawman much?

 

Okay. Where did I accuse you of THAT? Strawman much?

 

"Hey guys I'm going to invite a bunch of random people to my game and demand that they play the way I want them to play instead of getting my party members from a like-minded guild/clan. Because what I want in a group full of random people is all that matters".

 

 

I don't demand anything. When people start demanding to run a certain way during runs they aren't even hosting,  which hasn't been a big issue in the near 2 years I've been playing, and all of a sudden people are all about hiding in "the sewers" when it's not even their key? Yes. There's a tad bit of a problem. Where on earth is this trend coming from that it's so much more noticeable now than it was say 7 months ago?

 

What I said, more or less, is that if you're having trouble with PUGS (aka pick up group, aka randoms) then don't pug. Play with like minded clan mates or look for like minded people in the recruit channel and add them to your friend list so it's easy to play with them in the future. No where did I ever say you should never play with other people.

 

The solution to your non-issue is already there. If you refuse to do it then it's your own problem.

 

Once again, a non-issue is a non-issue.

 

 

Again, not everyone is on at the times others want to do something. Simply saying find friends or Clans is, don't take this wrong, but it's rude. Some people rather be with tightly close knitted clans, which are smaller then huge clans that barely know everyone within. Not everyone wants to be in a large clan with people that might as well be randoms to you as well.

 

It is an issue to me if people are joining my key runs and are practically trying to high-jack my key. This has become quite prominent since Prime Access came out I've noticed.

 

Trying to say it's a non-issue, is the same way as saying to look the other way and ignore it.

 

Go ahead and do your camp runs. Just don't expect people to run it the way YOU expect when it's not even your tower key.

 

and again

 

No where did I ever say you should never play with other people.

 

No where did I say I wasn't going to play with other people..?

 

Edit:

 

P.S. It's only a problem because you're purposefully making it one.

 

It's only a problem ever since prime access hit and people are demanding camping in one spot. If you want that playstyle, then make your own runs.

 

Here's my two cents: I've done about 40 T3S runs for Volt pieces. I'm kinda sick and tired of running it. Honestly. It doesn't feel fun in the least. It feels like I need to grind and slave away to get the Nova and Volt I'm missing just to join some groups. I got kicked for having a normal Nova, not a Prime. 

 

So camping? It's not fun anyway. It's being distilled down to its most base form: Four people sitting there, being bored on a grindwall that I honestly can't even call a game anymore. 

 

 

What Nova Prime parts do you need? People kicking you for not being a Prime is harsh.

 

and yeah. People can go do camp runs. So long as they're hosting it and not treating it like the norm for every other group they decide to join.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Shuuro

[f3llyn]

Okay. Where did I accuse you of THAT? Strawman much?

 

 

 

I don't demand anything. When people start demanding to run a certain way during runs they aren't even hosting,  which hasn't been a big issue in the near 2 years I've been playing, and all of a sudden people are all about hiding in "the sewers" when it's not even their key? Yes. There's a tad bit of a problem. Where on earth is this trend coming from that it's so much more noticeable now than it was say 7 months ago?

 

 

 

 

Again, not everyone is on at the times others want to do something. Simply saying find friends or Clans is, don't take this wrong, but it's rude. Some people rather be with tightly close knitted clans, which are smaller then huge clans that barely know everyone within. Not everyone wants to be in a large clan with people that might as well be randoms to you as well.

 

It is an issue to me if people are joining my key runs and are practically trying to high-jack my key. This has become quite prominent since Prime Access came out I've noticed.

 

Trying to say it's a non-issue, is the same way as saying to look the other way and ignore it.

 

Go ahead and do your camp runs. Just don't expect people to run it the way YOU expect when it's not even your tower key.

 

and again

 

 

 

No where did I say I wasn't going to play with other people..?

 

Edit:

 

 

It's only a problem ever since prime access hit and people are demanding camping in one spot. If you want that playstyle, then make your own runs.

 

 

What Nova Prime parts do you need? People kicking you for not being a Prime is harsh.

 

and yeah. People can go do camp runs. So long as they're hosting it and not treating it like the norm for every other group they decide to join.

 

....

 

 

My key. My rules.

 

Warframe is a game that is also meant to be played with others, random or not. To say it's not, is cutting the game off short.

 

Maybe you need to word your posts better? Either way. There is a solution to your problem. Use it or be forever butthurt.

[Shuuro]

Maybe you need to word your posts better? Either way. There is a solution to your problem. Use it or be forever butthurt.

 

What was difficult to understand? I use keys, I expect people to run the game the way it was meant to be played unless they keyholder says otherwise?

 

I'm pretty sure we can agree to the point where if someone is hosting a run, they have fair say in whats going to happen in that run, right?

 

If I host a key, it would be natural to assume it would be a normal run and gun if I didn't say a thing, am I wrong?

 

If I said in squad, and in recruit, I'm hosting X type run, then it should be that X type run, right?

 

I think we can both agree to that mentality?