"coptering Is Staying" Says De

[Kruglov]

Coptering is fine.

But as others have said it looks silly.

 

Every weapon needs a special coptering animation.

 

Enemies (strong ones) should also be able to leap after us.

 

 

The whole game needs a speed boost, really.

[Mukade]

Its also kinda lame if I don't sprint all the time I get left behind. DE should get rid of sprinting too.

Why rush through a mission when you can take a nice walk with friends.....

 That's good. Comedy gold.

 You could also get left behind as you walk — you'll need a gamepad for that, though. So let's all just stay at our cozy Lisets and chat.

[Mukade]

You look dumb. Let's remove Mukade. lol its not a valid argument the game may have some hd graphics, but try looking at the smoke from the incense in the dojo, it runs 3 fps.

 You know what also looks dumb? Your post. Not only is it nonsensical, but is also unrelated to the topic at hand. So how about you remove it.

[Noabettiet]

I'm not convinced that there is a problem.

 

Maybe if you convinced us that there was some reason why going slow is better than going fast...

In terms of fighting against other humans, it means that you become an impossible target, in which, takes all the reason to ever walk or sprint in the first place. You don't have to deal with others protecting the flag or anything like that.

 

In PVE, it will make missions more redundant and easy to deal with. Though, because of the amazing aim the enemy AI has got, you simply can forgive the ridiculous speed boost.

[Mr.Lube]

Many things look dumb in the game, it still doesn't justify their removal just because they look dumb.

It justifies an equal replacement that does not require the user to have a melee weapon equipped.

[7grims]

Coptering is fine.

But as others have said it looks silly.

 

Every weapon needs a special coptering animation.

 

Enemies (strong ones) should also be able to leap after us.

 

 

The whole game needs a speed boost, really.

 

Amen.

 

And I also want it so the heavy and slow melees to become as good for coptering or aerial attacks as any of the fast weapons.

Its just sad I not using some of my favorite scythes because DE made those bad for both those melee movements.

[Solandis]

Actually they've been talking about removing it. I think the idea was that it would be out when Parkour 2.0 showed up? I dunno, I can't find my source on that so take it with a grain of salt.

[Fifield]

Wasn't coptering-as-a-bug directly replaced by directional melee?

 

When parkour 2.0 will come out, and IF the system is made in a correct way the arguments for it's removal will make sense. Right now coptering is vital for many players due to the clunkyness of the system. 

Removing coptering right now without any appropriate ''compensation'' would be a huge mistake. 

 

They've said they won't.

What I don't get is how you move faster over a flat areas with parkour.  OK, you get a speed boost when jumping off walls but that's not going to help much and still look dumb.  Parkour deals with 'lumpy' terrain.

So something like coptering will probably stay.  It's the closest thing to parkour that gets you moving fast enough.


DE have said they're going to change jump, which probably means they're changing coptering since it nearly always jumping.
They're introducing quick jump and powered jump.

Also, when people are talking about coptering, they should sometimes be clearer.  There are at least 3 different actions that people refer to as coptering:

1. Directional melee from the ground.
2. Front flipping + directional melee.
3. Flying kick + directional melee.

I like coptering mostly.  Nice learning curve and mostly it looks cool, even if it's a PITA to do.

They're at least 3 months away from introducing Parkour 2.0.  Here's what I'd like to see in the meantime:

- make sprint faster without turning it into bigger jumps.
- make sprint and non-jumping melee use zero stamina (but not recover it).
- make 2 & 3 use much more stamina.  Make front flipping use stamina.
- remove butt-sliding.

This would make coptering less dominant although still the best way to move around.  Successful and judicious use of coptering would use less stamina than poor coptering/overuse.

[Inez]

The problem with reducing coptering is that the game is gonna play slower. Maybe you personally want the game to run at a slower pace, but I assure that thousands of vets would simply quit if they slowed the game down. The same vets that run clans and talk up Warframe to their friends and on forums.

 

If they remove/reduce coptering but add something else so we can move just as fast, all would be fine.

[Omnimorph]

 Because it is the true way of ninjas, to be able to launch themselves at ridiculous speeds by swinging their weapons around in a spastic fashion. 

 Remember the whole deal with "Rhino is the heaviest of all the warframes"? Also, remember Tipedo?

 The Tipedo demands focus from those wishing to unlock its true power.

 It's true power is that Tipedo can send the heaviest and slowest of warframes flying across the map with a single swing. And even further, with a combination of a slide and aerial attacks.

 Remember the Spy 2.0 missions, when you have to carefully time your jumps and wallrun to avoid the security laser grid and not trigger the alarms? Well, don't fret, as you can easily fling yourself over that pit full of security lasers with a swing of Tipedo or some other coptering weapon of choice.

 The slide attack should stay, of course. What it should stay as is a stamina-costly, slow windup, slow wakeup special attack which can hit a few enemies in front of warframe, or knock them off their feet when used with martial weapons — while moving the warframe slightly forward, regardless of the weapon's attack speed. Aerial attack should not be used to gain momentum or as a second jump, it's an attack which is best used against airborne enemies, or for scoring precise melee headshots on tall enemies. I would rather have warframes be able to do a Devil May Cry-ish second jump by generating some sort of magnetic field under their feet in the air, that would look cool at least.

 We already have enough means of moving around quickly. Even more than we need. Did you know how far and fast can you kick off the wall if you time your wallrun correctly? That's some Neotokyo stuff here. The good stuff.

 Some warframes are privileged with abilities which set them apart from the others, allow them to cover great distances quickly. But as long as coptering exists, it doesn't matter if you're a Zephyr, Loki or a Rhino.

 Nobody even needs to spend energy on Rhino's Charge or Loki's Decoy Swap when you can move around with ease by coptering. Why would we even need Parkour 2.0 at this point?

 Coptering has to go.

 

"Coptering is staying, but stamina cost and fling range may be adjusted."

https://warframe.com/news/devstream-49-overview

 

I do feel it's a bad mistake of the devs to keep it in, it cheapens the whole movement system and makes it obsolete and redundant.  DE should have bit the bullet long ago and gotten rid of it as soon as it became a thing.

 

It's actually one of the very few areas where I think DE are doing something wrong, very badly wrong.

[Fifield]

I play with vets who frankly wouldn't care if missions took a minute longer.  One guy in my clan is so good at coptering, he'd hate to see it nerfed, but he's so addicted he'll stay. ;)

80% of players don't do coptering properly.  I think they'd keep 90% of their speed due to sprint buff and coptering would still work.  You could only do 3 or 4 without running out of stamina but players could always use Stamina mod for Capture runs.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Fifield

[JamnikPucek]

I have no problem with "coptering" staying as a combat move combined with traversal, but exactly as the stream overview mentioned, right now it seems to be crazy easy to sustain it almost indefinitely. Shifting the balance so its usage is shifted towards combat, while giving other options as far as rapid traversal goes seems like the best choice.

 

Rapid movement across the map in all dimensions is, ideally, supposed to be the result of a skilled player constantly using his skill to maintain his momentum. Pressing two buttons over and over to zip across the map does not seem like it is that, sorry. Also, if the game is "too slow' without it or it is the only thing making the game good, or even more ludicrously the reason behind WFs popularity, I do not know what to say.

 

Coptering absolutely has its place in the game and the devs seem to agree. But it should not be the main method of rapid travel, which hopefully the next iteration of the movement system will underline. Again, as in all aspects of the game, the best results should come form constant challenges requiring constant adjustment and reaction, not memorized, machine like sequential button mashing. As it is, coptering not only looks mildly weird in some cases, it also lacks any sort of challenge to execute right once you get it down, as long as you lock yourself to fairly specific weapons and mod combos.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Don't like coptering? Don't do it. 

Don't have anything useful to contribute? Don't post!

[Lorthos_Mornin]

In terms of fighting against other humans, it means that you become an impossible target, in which, takes all the reason to ever walk or sprint in the first place. You don't have to deal with others protecting the flag or anything like that.

 

In PVE, it will make missions more redundant and easy to deal with. Though, because of the amazing aim the enemy AI has got, you simply can forgive the ridiculous speed boost.

 

Uh, definitely not impossible to target.  Especially if you're using hit-scan weapons.  Are people able to find cover more quickly?  Sure, but they aren't impossible to target unless you're just really bad at third person shooters.    In which case you might be in the wrong game.  Now, if you've got a good bead on them and they still get away that's more of a problem with TTK being too low compared to movement speed than it is just movement speed being to high.  It's all about finding the right balance.

 

The PVE missions are already highly redundant.  Our speed just let's us gets through them faster, so we see more of them.  Our speed doesn't add or subtract from how redundant the missions inherently are.

[GhostSwordsman]

Once it gets removed the outcry will be even bigger because those who complain about coptering will complain even more when they get outskilled ( especially in PvP ).

I only have one problem with the coptering movement speed boost in PvP, and that is it takes no skill to outdo a ranged opponent because with the press of two buttons you're in their face.

 

If someone wants to 'copter' straight at my Braton Prime, then let them, but they should die most of the time, not be able to get into melee range with minimal damage taken and be able to kill me.

 

In all honesty, from the PvP standpoint, I think 'coptering' should be a high risk, high reward move. If you successfully pull it off, then you get a kill, but you'll likely be a really easy target to take down if you don't utilize the strategy correctly. I.e. you can copter to a target and kill him, but you'll take a lot of damage by doing this, thus making it easy to kill you.(granted they know you're there)

 

In terms of fighting against other humans, it means that you become an impossible target, in which, takes all the reason to ever walk or sprint in the first place. You don't have to deal with others protecting the flag or anything like that.

In it's current iteration, and in my experience, pretty much this^

[(PSN)Borengar629]

They should eliminate coptering BUT should increase overall basic maneuverablity by a good chunk. I'm sorry but there is no way that I play as Frost without using the copering to get around. Just an example.

[Fifield]

I only have one problem with the coptering movement speed boost in PvP, and that is it takes no skill to outdo a ranged opponent because with the press of two buttons you're in their face.

 

If someone wants to 'copter' straight at my Braton Prime, then let them, but they should die most of the time, not be able to get into melee range with minimal damage taken and be able to kill me.

 

You can roll out of the way and counterattack.  With the damage you did from Braton, you should be able to kill them easily.

I think the 'flag'-carrier should have a minor slow on them because they can get the flag and out of there without you having a hope of catching them in about a second.

[akira_him]

Non-endless missions have no challenge to begin with, so why should people waste time slogging through them when they can go fast?

And the only challenge in endless missions is finding a way to never get hit by level 300+ enemies since they one-shot you through 99% damage reduction, and getting the objectives done in the process.

^this

And how can you wall run in desert to gain speed

We need more vertical tilesets to make Coptering less useful while parkour is really relevant

[Vaskadar]

I feel like directional melee kinda made the point of parkour moot, not coptering. Coptering has always (at least for me) been a means of closing the gap between me and my opponent to reach the melee distance. And yes, I do use it on slow frames to keep up, but I know better than to be a $&*^ and leave everyone behind completely.

 

There are many systems that are dependent on being able to move large distances very quickly. The combo system of the game, for example is one.

 

On one hand, I don't think that an emergent gameplay mechanic should nullify the point of traversing the levels as the level designers intended.

 

On the other, I see its integral value to the game.

 

It should not be changed without first making other gameplay systems/elements/mechanics better. Until then, it really should stay.

 

One thing that would make sense is that the faster a weapon swings, the more stamina is consumed. If there is no stamina, one shouldn't be able to 'copter' the full distance.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Vaskadar

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

Nothing to add really but a big fat +1 ...

Of course i do use coptering / directional melee to move around the quickest way possible, but that doesn't mean it's supposed to be that way... Just increase movement speed all around and make parcour and different frame speeds finally matter... and give me a reason to bring my d. nikana along instead of tipedo.

Imagine someone new joining the game expecting sophisticated ninja movements and witnessing the omnipresent flying around, it's just silly.

[Mukade]

Uh, definitely not impossible to target.  Especially if you're using hit-scan weapons.  Are people able to find cover more quickly?  Sure, but they aren't impossible to target unless you're just really bad at third person shooters.

 

You can roll out of the way and counterattack.  With the damage you did from Braton, you should be able to kill them easily.

 You guys haven't played PvP mode much, haven't you.

[MikeJonesDaOreo]

I see no reason why coptering should be removed completely because it will cause a domino affect later down the line. People will complain about Tenno using Volt's speed power to speed run missions and then the speed is nerfed to the ground. Next people will use Nova's wormhole, though everyone can use this, there will always be that one select group of people to complain about it and then it gets nerfed a month or so later. Who's next? Ash and Loki for their teleport powers. Again small group of people will complain about that too until those get nerfed to the ground. And finally what are we left with? Rhino Charge, Excal Slash and Dash, Zephyrs Tailwind, and Valkyrs Ripline. People will complain about those too and then it's goodbye Ms. Spider woman Valkyr and RIP mobility in general.

 

I use coptering for fun because that's what games are meant for! FUN F.U.N <------ GOD FREAKING FORBID I GO TO THE DEPTHS OF HELL FOR HAVING FUN ON A FREAKING VIDEO GAME! When people complain about fun things in a game I sit back and think "Either this person was dropped on their head as a child. B: They don't understand the meaning of "fun" or C: They need a serious reality check. 

 

I understand that people want challenge in this game. But for God sakes be grateful for what DE has given us already as what they consider a challenge.

 

1. Level 100+ enemies Phoenix Interception Tac Alert

 

2. Grineer Manic

 

3. Raids

 

4. Grustrag 3 (People will disagree, I know, but in my eyes I find them to be the most challenging Deathsquad )

 

And much more. So for pete sakes people.... stop asking for fun things to be taken out for your own selfish needs.

 

With that said, I'm going to continue coptering with my own free will. Oh and one last thing.. when I copter and I'm first to extraction, I WILL wait for you by jacking around with enemies and let you take your sweet time getting to extraction because as long as I'M having fun then there is no reason for me to be a jerk, force the extraction timer and be like " HEY HURRY UP YOU SLOW PIECE OF CRAP, I'M GROWING A DANG BEARD"

[Mukade]

I see no reason why coptering should be removed completely because it will cause a domino affect later down the line. People will complain about Tenno using Volt's speed power to speed run missions and then the speed is nerfed to the ground. Next people will use Nova's wormhole, though everyone can use this, there will always be that one select group of people to complain about it and then it gets nerfed a month or so later. Who's next? Ash and Loki for their teleport powers. Again small group of people will complain about that too until those get nerfed to the ground. And finally what are we left with? Rhino Charge, Excal Slash and Dash, Zephyrs Tailwind, and Valkyrs Ripline. People will complain about those too and then it's goodbye Ms. Spider woman Valkyr and RIP mobility in general.

  What you're talking about are the warframe's abilities, the core game mechanic which make more or less perfect sense in how they work. Also they look nice. To remove those abilities is to kill the very essence of those warframes. To remove coptering is to revive the essence of fast warframes, make them distinct. However, the way warframes move around in general needs to be accommodated.

[Vaskadar]

I see no reason why coptering should be removed completely because it will cause a domino affect later down the line. People will complain about Tenno using Volt's speed power to speed run missions and then the speed is nerfed to the ground. Next people will use Nova's wormhole, though everyone can use this, there will always be that one select group of people to complain about it and then it gets nerfed a month or so later. Who's next? Ash and Loki for their teleport powers. Again small group of people will complain about that too until those get nerfed to the ground. And finally what are we left with? Rhino Charge, Excal Slash and Dash, Zephyrs Tailwind, and Valkyrs Ripline. People will complain about those too and then it's goodbye Ms. Spider woman Valkyr and RIP mobility in general.

 

I use coptering for fun because that's what games are meant for! FUN F.U.N <------ GOD FREAKING FORBID I GO TO THE DEPTHS OF HELL FOR HAVING FUN ON A FREAKING VIDEO GAME! When people complain about fun things in a game I sit back and think "Either this person was dropped on their head as a child. B: They don't understand the meaning of "fun" or C: They need a serious reality check. 

 

I understand that people want challenge in this game. But for God sakes be grateful for what DE has given us already as what they consider a challenge.

 

1. Level 100+ enemies Phoenix Interception Tac Alert

 

2. Grineer Manic

 

3. Raids

 

4. Grustrag 3 (People will disagree, I know, but in my eyes I find them to be the most challenging Deathsquad )

 

And much more. So for pete sakes people.... stop asking for fun things to be taken out for your own selfish needs.

 

With that said, I'm going to continue coptering with my own free will. Oh and one last thing.. when I copter and I'm first to extraction, I WILL wait for you by jacking around with enemies and let you take your sweet time getting to extraction because as long as I'M having fun then there is no reason for me to be a jerk, force the extraction timer and be like " HEY HURRY UP YOU SLOW PIECE OF CRAP, I'M GROWING A DANG BEARD"

 

You're using a slippery slope fallacy, though.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

I see no reason why coptering should be removed completely because it will cause a domino affect later down the line. People will complain about Tenno using Volt's speed power to speed run missions and then the speed is nerfed to the ground. Next people will use Nova's wormhole, though everyone can use this, there will always be that one select group of people to complain about it and then it gets nerfed a month or so later. Who's next? Ash and Loki for their teleport powers. Again small group of people will complain about that too until those get nerfed to the ground. And finally what are we left with? Rhino Charge, Excal Slash and Dash, Zephyrs Tailwind, and Valkyrs Ripline. People will complain about those too and then it's goodbye Ms. Spider woman Valkyr and RIP mobility in general.

 

I use coptering for fun because that's what games are meant for! FUN F.U.N <------ GOD FREAKING FORBID I GO TO THE DEPTHS OF HELL FOR HAVING FUN ON A FREAKING VIDEO GAME! When people complain about fun things in a game I sit back and think "Either this person was dropped on their head as a child. B: They don't understand the meaning of "fun" or C: They need a serious reality check. 

 

I understand that people want challenge in this game. But for God sakes be grateful for what DE has given us already as what they consider a challenge.

 

1. Level 100+ enemies Phoenix Interception Tac Alert

 

2. Grineer Manic

 

3. Raids

 

4. Grustrag 3 (People will disagree, I know, but in my eyes I find them to be the most challenging Deathsquad )

 

And much more. So for pete sakes people.... stop asking for fun things to be taken out for your own selfish needs.

 

With that said, I'm going to continue coptering with my own free will. Oh and one last thing.. when I copter and I'm first to extraction, I WILL wait for you by jacking around with enemies and let you take your sweet time getting to extraction because as long as I'M having fun then there is no reason for me to be a jerk, force the extraction timer and be like " HEY HURRY UP YOU SLOW PIECE OF CRAP, I'M GROWING A DANG BEARD"

 

shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e, shift, space, cntrl, e ...

 

SUCH FUN!

 

Also i don't understand why'd you assume mobility skills will be nerfed as soon as they'll be actually useful...

Edited April 2, 2015 by Kotsender_Quasimir