Banshee: Revision, Feedback And Suggestions To Make Her A More Appreciated Warframe

[Tyreuzs]

There are a lot of people who dont like her. Improving her abilities in a skillbased defensive way would be a great step towards DE's aim to make all Warframes endgame viable and make Banshee a more appreciated Warframe.

 

the following revision is the result and opinion about a Warframe after playtesting and polarizing her multiple times to try her in a varity of different situations.

 

So here is a quick revision of her abilities, feedback and some overall suggestions to balance her properly:

 

Sonic Boom:

Sonic Boom is great to stun enemys but the current damageoutput of the ability is ridiculous. I would suggest to increase its damage at least to 300 as a base on max abililitylevel since it is comparable to mags pull and should at least inflict a similar damageamount. However, it is only good against enemys that are close to her and cant prevent the numerous bullets that are shot by the enemys that stand a bit farer away.

 

Sonar:

Her second ability ''Sonar'' is one of the most awesome abilities in the game at the moment. It is a great way to boost skillbased the damage, having the Tenno required to hit the unleashed spots for the damagebuff. The new augment improves the ability even more by unleashing more spots on the targets simplifying the aiming and thereby the chance to recieve the damageboost. I wouldn't change anything within this ability. It seems to me to be perfect the way it is at the moment.

 

Silence:

The third ability of Banshee ''Silence'' should recieve a rework in my opinion. The only thing that the player can currently benefit from is the short stun. Simply because the squadmembers most likely attract the attention from the enemys by reason of not even minding about any kind of stealthkills due its unefficient timeconsumption. As a result the enemys will behave normal again. So under most circumstances the only good thing within this ability is the 3 seconds stun after contact. In my opinion the ability definitly needs a much longer stun or the infliction of a temporary elemental proc. This would give Banshee an additional defensive supplement and would make her as long as the ability is active a bit more endgame viable and overall usable in a bigger varity of situations and missions.

 

Sound Quake:

Sound Quake is one of the abilities I use rarely for the sake of Banshees overall squishiness and the fact that she is during the cast still vulnerable to e.g. bullets from enemys outside of the abilities range or other incoming damagepossibilities. On the other hand it can be a great opportunity to control a crowd while a teammate revives a fallen Tenno or if in similar situations some enemys have to be cleared out temporary. Personally the only thing i would change within this ability is increasing the armor during the cast.

 

All in all i can say that Banshee is currently a Warframe with very interesting mechanics but should definitly recieve an addition to her skills to give her a defensive supplement which makes her viable to a bigger varity of situations and endgame.

[Kutsus]

No rework is needed, but ppl need to realize that Sonic Boom + Silence with minimum duration (Fleeting expertise + transient fortitude) lets u EASILY permastun ALL enemies that can threaten you, there literally is nothing better than permastun for endgame.
No rework, jsut knowledge.

[SgtFlex]

Why does she need a rework? Just because she's underappreciated doesn't mean she's powerful. Hell, you can increase the damage done to almost an enemy in her radius up to 10x or more. She's a very powerful frame, it's just people are less interested in a frame more focused on Gunplay, stealth, and stuns.

[Valkyr-Umbra]

I gotta say,I love banshee as she is right now. Sonar is under-appreciated in my opinion, and as OP says, it doesn't seem to need any changes. Silence's stun is useful, but the best thing about it is that it keeps enemies from noticing you and your squad mates. Less enemy attention at endgame=more survivability. Finally, soundquake is great for massacring lower level enemies, and at endgame can be used to perma stun entire rooms of enemies (max range-efficiency). You can lock down two zones in a t4 interception with it without much energy troubles (just have to watch out for the nullifiers). 

[Kalenath]

No rework is needed, but ppl need to realize that Sonic Boom + Silence with minimum duration (Fleeting expertise + transient fortitude) lets u EASILY permastun ALL enemies that can threaten you, there literally is nothing better than permastun for endgame.

No rework, jsut knowledge.

 

But that required people THINK rather than press a button to win.

 

Banshee is one of those frames that is hard to play, but AWESOME when mastered.

 

Sonic Boom is one of the best CC/knockback abilities in game, but it doesn't insta-kill things so people hate it.

Sonar is one of the best buffs in game currently. Unfortunately it requires skill to hit the weak spot, so people hate it.

Silence is one of the best CC/disabling auras in game currently, but it actually requires you kill the targets yourself, so people hate it.

Sound Quake is one of the best long range CC/slow AOE abilities in game, but it isn't an insta-nuke so people hate it.

 

Banshee was my main until people demanded Frost more often. I still play her when I can, but Frost is usually more in demand. She isn't a 'press 4 to win' frame. She takes skill to play, so I enjoy her. Properly modded, with a decent loadout, she is unstoppable against all but bosses/T4 Void. (and I have 1 shotted Phorid with my Paris Prime.)

Edited April 4, 2015 by Kalenath

[Grom-84]

No ability buffs to banshee she is overpawad wit snipa rifle and deal 8 mil damage! so instead she deserves nerf! no buffs for warframes only nerfs they are overpawad!

[Paradoxbomb]

-Sonic Boom is fine as it is without high damage IMO, not that I would argue against a damage boost, but for how cheap and reliable it is I would still use it even if it dealt zero damage.

 

-Sonar is definitely her strongest skill, although many boss reworks have made them immune to Sonar due to invincibility phases or only being vulnerable on specific weakspots. This is a bit upsetting, since Sonar would normally be at it's most useful against enemies with high amounts of health (such as bosses) as opposed to fodder enemies that die in a single shot anyway. An addition to Sonar I wouldn't mind seeing is it creating a secondary weakspot on bosses, albeit without the increased damage bonus that you would have against normal enemies (so as to not let us OHKO them).

 

-Silence is definitely her weakest ability. Rather than only deafen enemies inside the bubble but still leave enemies outside capable of hearing, Silence should simply cancel noise made by anything inside the radius, including your guns, essentially silencing your guns and those of enemies within the bubble. Additionally, it would be nice if enemies that under the effects of Silence have reduced accuracy and reaction time.

 

-I'm more or less fine with Soundquake. It's not the best ability for Solo play but on a team it's an incredible support skill that stunlocks enemies over a pretty large radius.

[climatiseur]

She doesn't need more buffs.

Some people might even want to Nerf her resonance, although I'm not one of them.

Salvage silence is also decent after they add the finisher during initial stun.

Perfect in my eyes.

[Cerenax]

Make sonar spots bigger and give us a more obvious feedback on whether we are hitting it or not and make sonic quake drain less energy.

[HAYABU5A]

banshee is perfect right now 

 

but she would really benefit from dedicate augment mod slots, more than most other warframes because her builds are too tight to enjoy the utility of her full kit 

[The-Matrix]

Little improvement to sonar, it could show rare ressource, object, etc.

[JayGideon1]

Banshee is probably one of the few frames that are almost completely done. meaning that after a few (and i stress a few) tweaks she's perfect, she's under appreciated, not under powered. I will admit that silence, stun aside is a bit under whelming as far as stealth goes, but then again stealth in this game in general needs some more love (Spy 2.0 is starting to do this)  

[Bobtm]

Banshee doens't need any sort of buff as others have covered.  To make note of something very important here;

 

 There are a lot of people who dont like her.

 

So here is a quick revision of her abilities, feedback and some overall suggestions to balance her properly:

You've already gone horribly wrong with your very first line here.  Buffs/balancing/reworks are important, however they should never be done solely due to popularity.  Popularity, or rather a lack thereof is not, and never will be a proper reason for changes.  Things that aren't straightforward simply don't appeal to the mass crowd, and that's okay.  Not every frame needs to be popular, it's actually even good that there are frames that aren't popular because that means we have options that don't follow the "obvious" path.  It adds more interesting gameplay that way.

 

To cover the bolded part.  What is already balanced doesn't need to be balanced properly.  Banshee is already in a very good place.

 

So in summation, to all of your suggestions for Banshee;  No, absolutely not.

[TaylorsContraction]

She's my favorite Warframe. Silence doesn't need a rework but a tweak imo. Have it silence all weapons in range of effect as if they have silencers (even if the weapons fire outside of effect range).

[DrBorris]

Banshee is ALMOST perfect, she is one of the most balanced frames in the game. She is extremely powerful but does not take difficulty from the game. She needs one thing...

 

 

 

Silence should actually SILENCE all allies and enemies sounds rather than deafening them.

 

 

If Silence silenced team stealth would be MUCH more viable, even possibly with pugs.

 

With that change, Banshee would become the first "perfect" frame, having all abilities be useful, further a play style, scale with skill, and not be OP.

[Tyreuzs]

Banshee is ALMOST perfect, she is one of the most balanced frames in the game. She is extremely powerful but does not take difficulty from the game. She needs one thing...

 

 

 

Silence should actually SILENCE all allies and enemies sounds rather than deafening them.

 

 

If Silence silenced team stealth would be MUCH more viable, even possibly with pugs.

 

With that change, Banshee would become the first "perfect" frame, having all abilities be useful, further a play style, scale with skill, and not be OP.

well she would be perfect and be balanced because it requires skill to earn the damageboost. But she wouldn't be OP? uhh 1400>% damage buff. That is op

[DrBorris]

well she would be perfect and be balanced because it requires skill to earn the damageboost. But she wouldn't be OP? uhh 1400>% damage buff. That is op

It takes skill to hit the weak spots from Sonar. Why do you think Banshee was used so little before Resonance? 

 

Oh... you are talking about Sonar WITH RESONANCE, that is an entirely different conversation. All frames should be viable without Augments, nerfing a frame because of an Augment makes no sense... it would be the Augment that needs tweaking. Thus, your point is invalid. You are basing Banshee's performance based on an Augment that is not connected to Banshee's default kit. 

[Eirshy]

I dunno, Sonar is cool and all but....

Maxed Intensify (+30%) puts it at 6.5x

Crit Headshot with Molecular Primer is 8x

To get 8x with Sonar, you need +60% total Power Strength (more than just Intensify).

 

Honestly I'd rather see it get a lower damage amp, but provide an amount of armor reduction on the splotch. Gives it a use over MP that isn't just straight damage.

Also, did they ever fix it picking invulnerable locations on an enemy, or is it still worthless on all the speshul snowflake health gated pseudo-puzzle bosses DE has been fond of since Lephantis?

 

 

Sonic Boom is fine, though I'm not gonna stop a damage buff. Honestly the CC is plenty for its purpose (git off me nuts).

 

Silence really does need to actually silence anything within its aoe, not deafen enemies within it. Team stealth would be damn cool, as would reliable stealth out of its range so long as you fired from within it.

 

Sound Quake is a lot better than you give it credit if you know how to use it (and run max range). 47m stunlock is pretty good (especially for providing "covering fire" for someone reviving someone), about my only complaint is that without 75% efficiency, it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive (compare to other toggleable ults, like Nyx's Absorb). Arcane Chorus helms represent.

 

 

 

Really this is Banshee's problem. She's actually almost balanced. Like, truly balanced. Could use a little bit here and there, but not much.

Well, that and the fact that she favors skill-based play (due to Sonar and her own squishiness), which means most people who play her (like me) view her deficiencies as challenges rather than a call to be vocal on the forums. A tad ironic, really. The screamer doesn't scream.

Edited April 6, 2015 by TheBlueJelly

[climatiseur]

I dunno, Sonar is cool and all but....

Maxed Intensify (+30%) puts it at 8x

Crit Headshot with Molecular Primer is 8x

 

 

Maxed Intensify only gives 

 

5 x 1.3 = 6.5 X

 

The % is added on a 100% and then multiply, not add 3 multiplying numbers in the multiplier bonus.

 

 

 

well she would be perfect and be balanced because it requires skill to earn the damageboost. But she wouldn't be OP? uhh 1400>% damage buff. That is op

 

 Sonar requires aiming, what you usually can do is only overkilling 1 enemy, but not killing many enemies at the same time.

 

Overkilling only one enemy with proper aiming is not OP. Please do not see OP as "huge damage", it is much wider than that.

 

MPrime is a different story as the multiplier does not require hitting specific hit spot, and the explosion cause a chain effect. That's why the bonus is restrained at 2X. Same as Accelerant.

 

You may want to look more closely to other characteristics and effects of an ability to make a judgement saying if it is OP or not.

Edited April 6, 2015 by climatiseur

[Eirshy]

Maxed Intensify only gives 

 

5 x 1.3 = 6.5 X

 

The % is add on a 100% and then multiply, not add 3 multiply numbers in the multiplier numbers.

 

 

 

 

 Sonar requires aiming, what you usually can do is only overkilling 1 enemy, but not killing many enemies at the same time.

 

Overkilling only one enemy with proper aiming is not OP. Please do not see OP as "huge damage", it is much wider than that.

 

MPrime is a different story as the multiplier does not require hitting specific hit spot, and the explosion cause a chain effect. That's why the bonus is restrained at 2X. Same as Accelerant.

 

You may want to look more closely to other characteristics and effects of an ability to make a judgement saying if it is OP or not.

 

Hurr Durr on my part, I've fixed it in my post. The requirement of Blind Rage (or some other Power Strength In Exchange For... mod)

This is what happens when I take repeated hiatuses, I only remember the general idea of certain balancing concerns I had.

 

Also, additive is 530% not 800% lol

 

 

EDIT LINE: Didn't realize that was two different replies, your quote glitched out when it first loaded. Regardless, I left the rest of the post. That's why this post is what it is.

 

 

Both result in overkill on aiming, the catch is MP provides movement speed adjustment, bonus even if you're just hitting (not taking a trickshot like Sonar), provide a (generally) better bonus in damage (remember how you need high power eff to make Sound Quake worth while?) for the accurate... and all for only twice the mana cost (25 instead of 12.5 since you run maxed eff on both generally).

 

 

I never called it OP. The only reason I'm miffed about it is because Banshee's supposed to be a sniping frame, yet Molec Prime does it better (since when sniping, you're mostly looking for damage amps to make sure the shot kills).

 

Also, if they never fixed the sonar-picks-invlunerable-spots "bug", then Sonar is not usable on Lephantis or other bosses with invulnerable regions, while MP is (which also, again, granting the speed adjustment).

 

This change (armor bypass instead of raw damage) would also work really well with my current favorite sniper buff idea- giving non-bow sniper weapons armor bypass on headshot, higher base damage, and nerfing their crit chance. This would also help with the infinite armor scaling problem we never got rid of.

Edited April 6, 2015 by TheBlueJelly

[climatiseur]

Hurr Durr on my part, I've fixed it in my post. The requirement of Blind Rage (or some other Power Strength In Exchange For... mod)

This is what happens when I take repeated hiatuses, I only remember the general idea of certain balancing concerns I had.

 

Also, additive is 530% not 800% lol

 

 

EDIT LINE: Didn't realize that was two different replies, your quote glitched out when it first loaded. Regardless, I left the rest of the post. That's why this post is what it is.

 

 

Both result in overkill on aiming, the catch is MP provides movement speed adjustment, bonus even if you're just hitting (not taking a trickshot like Sonar), provide a (generally) better bonus in damage (remember how you need high power eff to make Sound Quake worth while?) for the accurate... and all for only twice the mana cost (25 instead of 12.5 since you run maxed eff on both generally).

 

 

I never called it OP. The only reason I'm miffed about it is because Banshee's supposed to be a sniping frame, yet Molec Prime does it better (since when sniping, you're mostly looking for damage amps to make sure the shot kills).

 

Also, if they never fixed the sonar-picks-invlunerable-spots "bug", then Sonar is not usable on Lephantis or other bosses with invulnerable regions, while MP is (which also, again, granting the speed adjustment).

 

This change (armor bypass instead of raw damage) would also work really well with my current favorite sniper buff idea- giving non-bow sniper weapons armor bypass on headshot, higher base damage, and nerfing their crit chance. This would also help with the infinite armor scaling problem we never got rid of.

 

No It didn't glitched, It was me forgetting to quote the right comment for my reply XD my fault. That's why I edited later.

 

I see your point and it sounds nice. As I also find Sonar not quite useful versus most of the bosses having invulnerable body parts, that's frustrating.

[-OMS-Spriggan.EX]

The only problem i see at Banshee is about Sonar glitch as client.

I'm not talking about reworking or anything since i find that skill perfect already except at one point: playing as Client.

 

Even today, with lag or without lag when i play as client... Never get the damage boost.

 

I find it very frustating since when i am the host, the damage boost always works.

 

I quit Banshee as client because of it except when i am the host.

 

Peace!

[-FV-Wsocks]

No rework needed at all. Banshee is a goddamn monster. 

[Azamagon]

Well, I can see SOME tweaks being done for her, mostly in regards to selfsynergy and QoL:

 

Sonic Boom

Some more damage would be nice. But I'd prefer a different take on boosting its damage, making it involve personal skill and introducing more ability-synergy:

* On top of its current knockdown cone, it'd be cool to give it an added longranged, thin, hitscan soundbeam shot where you aim your crosshair, which dealt decent amounts of Finisherdamage, giving her an innate sniper-ability which requires aiming. It would allow her to use Sonar with one of her abilities, and that kind of synergy should always be promoted imo.

* It'd be cool if the knockdown cone also pushed away all enemy projectiles (including hitscan ones, as this cone DOES have a traveltime, so it'd allow for very brief protection).

 

Sonar

I think it is good as is, although I do find it a bit tedious to have to spam it constantly every time a new bunch of enemies appear (compare that to all other damagebuffs, no need to recast them everytime new enemies appear, bar M.Prime, which does more than boost damage though). The Resonance augment solves that a bit though. I think leaving Sonar alone would be totally fine, but IF i would suggest something, it'd be this:

Make it a big-range "aura" around Banshee instead, which automatically sonar's enemies that get inside of it. Enemies leaving the aura lose the sonar splotch after a couple of seconds. Recasting it refreshes the aura's duration and changes the splotches enemies currently might have (so you can recast it in case of a bad sonar spot appears on the enemy). Resonance augment still cause stacking splotches.

 

Silence

 On top of deafening enemies it really ought to silence you and your allies as well. Otherwise, its "stealth" properties are just pointless, since nearby non-deafened enemies can hear you just fine... derp -.-

The stun effect on it is nice though, but how it works currently feels like it has a bad design imo. Why? Well, if any enemy is stunned when you don't want to, you can't stun it again until the ability expires, promoting short duration builds (I hate that design, Power Duration shouldn't feel like such a detriment so often. Same crap goes on with, for example, Tentacle Swarm/Tempest Barrage/Tornado, urgh).

That can be resolved though - If it was recastable at any time and/or if it instead/also could be triggered to stun everything in its aoe whenever you cast one of your other abilities.

 

Soundquake

Awesome CC support in a team, but sort of pointless when playing solo. She can't use the stun herself, which is odd imo. If I would change it, I'd make it into a launchable soundorb, which on contact with anything (or if detonated manually by casting it again) starts a soundquake / disturbing soundpulses from its detonation point, lasting a few seconds, allowing you and your allies alike to get useage from the stunning effect. Shooting it at your feet thus makes it pretty much the same as it is now, but with the ability to move around yourself!

Edited April 8, 2015 by Azamagon

[xFrostKnightx]

  There are a lot of people who dont like her. Improving her abilities in a skillbased defensive way would be a great step towards DE's aim to make all Warframes endgame viable and make Banshee a more appreciated Warframe.

 

the following revision is the result and opinion about a Warframe after playtesting and polarizing her multiple times to try her in a varity of different situations.

 

So here is a quick revision of her abilities, feedback and some overall suggestions to balance her properly:

 

Sonic Boom:

Sonic Boom is great to stun enemys but the current damageoutput of the ability is ridiculous. I would suggest to increase its damage at least to 300 as a base on max abililitylevel since it is comparable to mags pull and should at least inflict a similar damageamount. However, it is only good against enemys that are close to her and cant prevent the numerous bullets that are shot by the enemys that stand a bit farer away.

 

Sonar:

Her second ability ''Sonar'' is one of the most awesome abilities in the game at the moment. It is a great way to boost skillbased the damage, having the Tenno required to hit the unleashed spots for the damagebuff. The new augment improves the ability even more by unleashing more spots on the targets simplifying the aiming and thereby the chance to recieve the damageboost. I wouldn't change anything within this ability. It seems to me to be perfect the way it is at the moment.

 

Silence:

The third ability of Banshee ''Silence'' should recieve a rework in my opinion. The only thing that the player can currently benefit from is the short stun. Simply because the squadmembers most likely attract the attention from the enemys by reason of not even minding about any kind of stealthkills due its unefficient timeconsumption. As a result the enemys will behave normal again. So under most circumstances the only good thing within this ability is the 3 seconds stun after contact. In my opinion the ability definitly needs a much longer stun or the infliction of a temporary elemental proc. This would give Banshee an additional defensive supplement and would make her as long as the ability is active a bit more endgame viable and overall usable in a bigger varity of situations and missions.

 

Sound Quake:

Sound Quake is one of the abilities I use rarely for the sake of Banshees overall squishiness and the fact that she is during the cast still vulnerable to e.g. bullets from enemys outside of the abilities range or other incoming damagepossibilities. On the other hand it can be a great opportunity to control a crowd while a teammate revives a fallen Tenno or if in similar situations some enemys have to be cleared out temporary. Personally the only thing i would change within this ability is increasing the armor during the cast.

 

All in all i can say that Banshee is currently a Warframe with very interesting mechanics but should definitly recieve an addition to her skills to give her a defensive supplement which makes her viable to a bigger varity of situations and endgame. 

 

Sonic boom is pure utility, it can knock down any unit of any level. It is by no means a damage skill, adding damage to it would mean something in that ability must be removed to keep the balance.

 

Sonar, ok nice you left it alone

 

Silence, I don't agree with your changes. However I do think this this ability should be rebuilt from scratch while maintaining Banshee's "Sound" theme.

 

Quake, Invulnerability upon pressing the button rather than waiting for the animation would be the defense you are looking for same way Nyx instantly becomes invulnerable pressing 4 before her quick animation finishes.

 

All in all, 1st and 3rd ability need some changes. Not in the damage department, as planning a frames kit is balanced overall and any boost here would weaken sonar or worse have it changed.

Edited April 8, 2015 by xFrostKnightx