Tenno Are Shapeshifters.

[SilentMobius]

Well, depends on what Vor's "physical form" is - as I said, if all goes well and doesn't bug when he dies, that "physical form" turns to energy as well and floats away (even if it doesn't, I've seen the legs lying on the ground with a yellow-black energy texture from when it's supposed to filter away), and it's COMPLETELY invulnerable to damage.

 

If Vor DOES have a physical form, I think it's more a projection than his actual self - with his actual self being the little orb in the center of his belly that holds him together. I think when Vor says "I am energy" he's being pretty damn literal about it, for once.

 

Potentially, something similar could be what happened in the EPC - I can just imagine Kaleen hugging one of "the ones from the Zariman" to try and calm them down (motherly S#&$, yo) and getting a facefull of burn for her trying.

 

That's the thing, If you are energy, and aware of it, why would you re-create a simulacrum of your armour, implants, etc. IMHO it's much more like there is something sustaining the Vor-as-was-after-being-cut-in-half as close to literally as possible. IMHO if there was nothing of the physical to Vor I'd expect an idealized representation, not a duplicate.

 

I mean we still don't really understand the what and why of Void Keys at all, let alone Vor's specific "Janus Key" what if they are symbols of Office/Orokin status, what if there is something very specific being done to Vor perhaps something that was intended to have a different, more controlled effect.

 

As for as the decay-to-energy, pretty much everyone (killed) does that, I'm inclined to consider that a simple performance conceit considering how common it is.

[Blakrana]

Pretty much the case.

 

I guess the best...parallel I can think of for the 'Void Imprint' would be it's something like a Wake Spectre in Anima: In Anima, the Wake is the realm of dreams, where faith, belief and things affect it to better match it. When a person dies, if the circumstances or soul are especially unique and powerful, then an 'image' of them is formed in the Wake, a, in a sense, metaphysical echo of their life or last moments.

 

So...in Mirage's case, epic final battle? If it were Anima, I'd rule that a good case for a Spectre. So could be a similar mechanism here, it's just the Void would arguably operate more on a psionic level, perhaps. Can't be sure, but it's the parallel that makes the best sense for my reference pool.

 

Find it he did. He also found an interesting way of speech as well. I'm sure he was less preachy before the Void Weirdness.

 

 

That's the thing, If you are energy, and aware of it, why would you re-create a simulacrum of your armour, implants, etc. IMHO it's much more like there is something sustaining the Vor-as-was-after-being-cut-in-half as close to literally as possible. IMHO if there was nothing of the physical to Vor I'd expect an idealized representation, not a duplicate.

 

I mean we still don't really understand the what and why of Void Keys at all, let alone Vor's specific "Janus Key" what if they are symbols of Office/Orokin status, what if there is something very specific being done to Vor perhaps something that was intended to have a different, more controlled effect.

 

As for as the decay-to-energy, pretty much everyone (killed) does that, I'm inclined to consider that a simple performance conceit considering how common it is.

 

Perhaps, though it's also possible that it's just a matter of 'comfort' for him. He knows how his body works, and he knows how to use it good effect, compared to the non-descript force he seems to be now. Could be for proof of a point, or intimidation. Random energy masses are less intimidating than the person you thought you killed trying to kill you again. And again...

 

Could even be that whatever kind of 'energy' he claims to be, isn't the kind that can interact meaningfully on its own. Perhaps his body is used merely as a convenient focus.

 

Either way, really is hitting at the stuff we don't know enough about at this juncture.

[Noble_One]

~snip~

....

 

so anyone else agree? thoughts? 

 

....

 

 

go home your drunk...

[AeluronLightsong]

I think the supernautral powers that humans have via Tenno seems much more interesting then transhumanism. Already went there with Deus Ex Human Revolution(Obviously on a more modern level).

 

Also the narrative would be messed up considering we are farming metals and technology to make new warframes. It would call... a ludo narrative dissonance I believe the term is called?

Edited April 9, 2015 by AeluronLightsong

[Blakrana]

I think the supernautral powers that humans have via Tenno seems much more interesting then transhumanism. Already went there with Deus Ex Human Revolution(Obviously on a more modern level)

 

Strictly speaking, superpowered humans are by rights a type of Transhuman. It is not a terminology that necessarily means 'Cyborg' or there of, but simply...'more' than 'simply' human.

 

Psychic Powers? Regeneration? Pyrokinetic? You're a transhuman of a lesser order than the more obvious.

 

Wolverine is just as much a Transhuman as Adam Jensen, the methodology is merely the distinction of how. Wolverine has Genetics and the Adamantium endoskeleton augmentation, Adam Jensen was unlucky with Sarif Industries Fine Print and basically had a 'Six billion dollar man' deal thrust upon him. How he handles it comes down to how you act.

 

The trope is a lot more common than people think, people just don't tend to use the term unless it's explicit or referring to particular kinds of scenarios. Apologies for going on but, well...words are more complicated. Here's the trope.

 

In short? The Tenno are definitely a kind of Transhuman. We're really just trying to figure out what kind and how far along, and how voluntary or involuntary the change.

[Morec0]

Also the narrative would be messed up considering we are farming metals and technology to make new warframes. It would call... a ludo narrative dissonance I believe the term is called?

 

How would transhumanism mess up this narrative?

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Absolutely agree, If there is any physical shape alteration going on I think it's directed and/or defined by the Warframe. I'd be happy with either the suit forcing biological changes or directing an otherwise traumatic energy coalescence.

 

That said if DE do go with Tenno-as-Energy I'd prefer it a-la Vor in that there is a stable default physical form, where dis-corporation and reintegration is traumatic if not supported by compatible [hard|wet]wear.

 

Sort of: Energy-Form-as-Emergency-Option rather than Energy-Form-as-Default

I agree, that if energy is a mechanism for changing from frame to frame, that is should do so in your former description not the latter. 

 

 

Strictly speaking, superpowered humans are by rights a type of Transhuman. It is not a terminology that necessarily means 'Cyborg' or there of, but simply...'more' than 'simply' human.

 

Psychic Powers? Regeneration? Pyrokinetic? You're a transhuman of a lesser order than the more obvious.

 

Wolverine is just as much a Transhuman as Adam Jensen, the methodology is merely the distinction of how. Wolverine has Genetics and the Adamantium endoskeleton augmentation, Adam Jensen was unlucky with Sarif Industries Fine Print and basically had a 'Six billion dollar man' deal thrust upon him. How he handles it comes down to how you act.

 

The trope is a lot more common than people think, people just don't tend to use the term unless it's explicit or referring to particular kinds of scenarios. Apologies for going on but, well...words are more complicated. Here's the trope.

 

In short? The Tenno are definitely a kind of Transhuman. We're really just trying to figure out what kind and how far along, and how voluntary or involuntary the change.

Agreed, though most superhuman fiction ignore the psychological effects of being a superbeing. We are just fortunate that Deus Ex chose to focus on it. I guess X-Men does focus on elements of transhumanism to some extent, just labeling it at mutation.

[Ded_man]

I'm still learning about the back story, but the impression I got was that we are the Tenno's, basically trying to immerse each of us into the game as the wearer of (or remotely controlling) the warframes we are currently using. Each warframe we play and build are nothing more than suits and we as the player (human) are the ones controlling them. I've read through much of the posts and I'm completely lost now.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ded_man

[AeluronLightsong]

How would transhumanism mess up this narrative?

We're collecting pieces of metal and technology to form our Warframes. If we are transhuman as people are calling wouldn't it mean that we're not technically *transhuman or humans with supernatural powers*. I mean I always took it as the warframes as exosuits to an extent.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I'm still learning about the back story, but the impression I got was that we are the Tenno's, basically trying to immerse each of us into the game as the wearer of (or remotely controlling) the warframes we are currently using. Each warframe we play and build are nothing more than suits and we as the player (human) are the ones controlling them. I've read through much of the posts and I'm completely lost now.

The conflict, for some, is PolyTenno Vs MonoTenno theories. Despite the lore and dev comments to the contrary, a PolyTenno believes that there is a Tenno in each Warframe. A MonoTenno believes that you are one Tenno and you wear all the Warframes, and being a singular Tenno has significant in-game evidence.

 

The rest is debate of the mechanism or efficacy of each theories.

 

 

We're collecting pieces of metal and technology to form our Warframes. If we are transhuman as people are calling wouldn't it mean that we're not technically *transhuman or humans with supernatural powers*. I mean I always took it as the warframes as exosuits to an extent.

 

 

 

Except, the Tenno where made by void exposure. They most certainly are not normal humans anymore. The frames, built around their affliction channel their powers. Trans or Posthuman, indeed.

Edited April 9, 2015 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[Morec0]

We're collecting pieces of metal and technology to form our Warframes. If we are transhuman as people are calling wouldn't it mean that we're not technically *transhuman or humans with supernatural powers*. I mean I always took it as the warframes as exosuits to an extent.

 

It's clear that the Warframes are the source of the abilities we use, yes, but they are only half of the equation. As Vor pointed out, the Tenno themselves are rippling with energy, Void energy. I think that this power is what fuels the Warframe, gives it the energy to do what it does. The Tenno are both battery and pilot for the frames.

[Morec0]

The conflict, for some, is PolyTenno Vs MonoTenno theories. Despite the lore and dev comments to the contrary, a PolyTenno believes that there is a Tenno in each Warframe. A MonoTenno believes that you are one Tenno and you where all the Warframes, and being a singular Tenno has significant in-game evidence.

 

The rest is debate of the mechanism or efficacy of each theories.

 

Lore (Limbo Theorem quest) confirms we're a singular Tenno switching, anyone who believes the PolyTenno at this point is in denial.

[Ded_man]

The conflict, for some, is PolyTenno Vs MonoTenno theories. Despite the lore and dev comments to the contrary, a PolyTenno believes that there is a Tenno in each Warframe. A MonoTenno believes that you are one Tenno and you where all the Warframes, and being a singular Tenno has significant in-game evidence.

 

The rest is debate of the mechanism or efficacy of each theories.

 

I haz much 2 lrn

[Blakrana]

Agreed, though most superhuman fiction ignore the psychological effects of being a superbeing. We are just fortunate that Deus Ex chose to focus on it. I guess X-Men does focus on elements of transhumanism to some extent, just labeling it at mutation.

 

Indeed. Honestly, when it comes to the whole debate on 'more than human' I find myself asking what that really means.

 

Personally, I admit I am fascinated by the idea of not being in a human form just for the sake of the wealth of empirical experience that would yield. If you could give me but a moment to experience things like Arthur does in The Sword in the Stone to experience things as another animal or creature...it would be the most amazing thing.

 

Does having functional immortality or what make you a 'better' person? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know. Much of the Comic books don't really, as you say, engage with what it means on a mental level, being at most little more than a metaphor for Racism and general discrimination. Although I guess the main question is 'you have a random, possibly reality warping power/gift/thing, what do you do?'. Arguably, the examples of the people who do great things despite the ease of abusing it are a case in point. But, hey, it's a very complex topic to get into. See Spiderman's brilliant, effective Fetter.

 

Which is I guess one of the reasons I like Steve Rogers so much as a character; he may have all the tricks going for the Super Soldier formula, but as a man...he's just a nice dude you'd be honoured to hang out with, I think.

 

I'm not too sure how well an example it is, but the film Bicentennial Man, where a robot literally elects and proceeds to become human. What, socially, does that mean or say? Are they a different example, or not?

 

Apologies, as always. I guess I just...find an avenue to question and ran with it. Even something as simple as seeing the world through non-colourblind eyes for but a few minutes fascinates me as a thing to consider. What changes? What doesn't? I don't know and nobody could actually tell me, either, and that's why it's so interesting.

 

So many things we can but only think about, you know?

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

-snip-

 

So many things we can but only think about, you know?

 

I emphatically agree.

Edited April 9, 2015 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[AeluronLightsong]

Beliefs aside about the Tenno...I wonder what the Syndicates fit into this.

[(XBOX)Warden Cleric]

I just think the tenno are humans that glow in certain parts of the bodies, use the energy to make the inside of the suit bigger regardless of his or hers size and gender.  Also believe the tenno use the energy as the "food" to keep there bodies alive and give them there nutrients.

Edited April 9, 2015 by (XB1)KoG Cleric

[Morec0]

Beliefs aside about the Tenno...I wonder what the Syndicates fit into this.

 

How so? They're regular people (unless you're one of those people who believe Arbiters are Tenno) that have formed groups to which the Tenno many join based on their own beliefs. What more's there to it?

Edited April 9, 2015 by Morec0

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I'm still learning about the back story, but the impression I got was that we are the Tenno's, basically trying to immerse each of us into the game as the wearer of (or remotely controlling) the warframes we are currently using. Each warframe we play and build are nothing more than suits and we as the player (human) are the ones controlling them. I've read through much of the posts and I'm completely lost now.

 

I should clarify, that in addition to what I said, OP is arguing that the mechanism, by which a Tenno changes frames is via a shapeshifting mechanism. This would address the wildly different morphology (body shape and size, and gender). This is a divisive topic, and one that has no smoking gun, yet.

[RFaul]

While I find this idea very interesting to explain a tenno changing body features to appear as female or male and also allowing for thinner limbs I find myself more comfortably with the idea of uploading the consciousness to the frames. This would explain why disabling the frame when a mission fails doesn't remove the Tenno from the fight. It implies that the frame was rescued somehow and fixed to allow for further usage.

[HillsAndTheSea]

so, i just went ahead and made a new topic, using all the evidence in the game, its much, much more coherent.

 

i realize why not everyone understands what im saying,  i didnt really use alot of details. instead of talking about a small aspect of the game, i should have just used a bigger one to support it, so i decided to reevaluate the ingame lore, and find more details to finally provide clarity. upon doing this, i was actually shocked at how easy this game is to misunderstand.  we were all so confused before, since the amount of information in the story is so few and far between, and most importantly, we aren't even given them in any sort of chronological order. but once you put alot of the details in order, you would be suprised. warframe is an amazing story, but you really have to connect the dots. we have infact already been given the entire tenno origin story.