Ember's Upcoming Wof Augment Further Highlights A Major Problem With Her - Made Worse By Her Changes

[XxCurtennoxX]

So her new augment is based around World on Fire builds. What's the problem with this?

Finding a slot to fit it.

Ember, ESPECIALLY since her changes a while back, suffers from what I call "Slot Starvation". This is where we're having to balance every single stat on her to get use out of her abilities, leaving us with the questions: "Where do I put this mod? How can I take out one of these essential mods without destroying the build?"

With World on Fire being a toggle AND still keeping a duration, it's harder than ever to balance her abilities out with the following:

- Efficiency: Incredibly important now with that horrible energy drain on WoF

- Duration: Also very important for WoF usage, which now has to be balanced EVEN MORE with how WoF now works. With the efficiency to counter the drain, we're obviously losing duration.

- Strength: At least an Intensify is needed for damage output. If you use Blind rage, you'll be losing more efficiency, which is bad. Using Transient Fortitude? Nope, you'll lose even more duration when you're already struggling to balance it.

- Range: Also affects WoF usage. Also going to be badly affected if you use Narrow Minded for duration. This would need to be countered by Stretch, taking up ANOTHER slot.

And then obviously you've got the usual defensive mod or two, and possibly even natural talent. I know the casting speed of WoF was reduced, but you're still going to have to recast the thing every 10 seconds.

Honestly, I can't see this Augment being able to fit in an already slot starved build. The introduction of a WoF augment just highlights the issue with Ember even more.

DE, please do something about this. When everyone asked for a toggle on WoF, that meant wanting the duration removed.

Remove the duration. Increase the Base duration to 20 seconds or even more. Something, ANYTHING to fix the problem with Ember. She's clearly harder to mod for after the changes were made, so how can we fit a WoF augment on a build centered around the ability?

[TheSIlent1]

Im actually planning on getting rid of Ember Prime cause shes rubbish and i need the slot for a warframe with some use and a frame i like. 

 

She needs a drastic change to her shes horrible and shes just there for mastery rank points which is silly. 

 

Fire Should be strong but she's just a single flame.

[XxCurtennoxX]

Im actually planning on getting rid of Ember Prime cause shes rubbish and i need the slot for a warframe with some use and a frame i like. 

 

She needs a drastic change to her shes horrible and shes just there for mastery rank points which is silly. 

 

Fire Should be strong but she's just a single flame.

Even against infested there's so many other frames that are just more effective than her

[Naftal]

They need to remove either the need for power range or power duration for Ember. It's ridiculous that other more powerful frames can can use 3-5 mods to maximize their power build while Ember needs 8 and still can't really max anything because of the need for all power stats. This would be a nice balancing factor if Ember in fact was the strongest frame in the game by a large margin instead of the exact opposite.

[XxCurtennoxX]

They need to remove either the need for power range or power duration for Ember. It's ridiculous that other more powerful frames can can use 3-5 mods to maximize their power build while Ember needs 8 and still can't really max anything because of the need for all power stats. This would be a nice balancing factor if Ember in fact was the strongest frame in the game by a large margin instead of the exact opposite.

Exactly. Considering she's a pure damage frame, you'll often get more damage from a tankier frame just by using weapons that scale better.

Her damage is already sub-par and there's no way to boost her damage without destroying the rest of her.

[ZxpferTH]

This is slightly saddening when come to ember because i still see someone on other thread try to def about ember not being useless and those guy probably the reason why de so hesitate to properly buff her

 

I just can't play her anymore after see her "TOGGLE" ability also the augment Panic , Knockdown are really bad it should innate in the first place she need too many thing duration , range , str , eff

[XxCurtennoxX]

This is slightly saddening when come to ember because i still see someone on other thread try to def about ember not being useless and those guy probably the reason why de so hesitate to properly buff her

 

I just can't play her anymore after see her "TOGGLE" ability also the augment Panic , Knockdown are really bad it should innate in the first place she need too many thing duration , range , str , eff

In my opinion WoF is worse than it was before. What purpose does a toggle/duration serve when there is no kind of thing at the end of the duration to justify it, like there is with Mirage's Prism?

[Kutsus]

Well, theorycrafting go. The new augment is obviously for a CC build, not a dmg build.

Imagine that fire fright is the new WoF augment: http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Ember_prime/t_30_002430003_4-7-5-5-5-5-13-6-3-36-8-5-46-3-5-256-0-3-478-1-3-479-2-10-481-4-10_256-9-478-9-479-7-46-6-481-7-5-9-13-13-4-9-36-14_0/en/1-0-4/53432/0

Edited April 7, 2015 by Kutsus

[Naftal]

Well, theorycrafting go. The new augment is obviously for a CC build, not a dmg build.

Imagine that fire fright is the new WoF augment: http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Ember_prime/t_30_002430003_4-7-5-5-5-5-13-6-3-36-8-5-46-3-5-256-0-3-478-1-3-479-2-10-481-4-10_256-9-478-9-479-7-46-6-481-7-5-9-13-13-4-9-36-14_0/en/1-0-4/53432/0

So, you need to get an augment to make a CC build that is soooo much worse than most other frame's normal CC builds without any augments?

[Kutsus]

So, you need to get an augment to make a CC build that is soooo much worse than most other frame's normal CC builds without any augments?

It actually seems to be on par with most other frames CC builds, ofc not on the same level as Nyx, Mag, Banshee or Loki, but more like Oberon, Excal, Frost, Valkyr, Hydroid, Mesa, Zephyr.

[XxCurtennoxX]

It actually seems to be on par with most other frames CC builds, ofc not on the same level as Nyx, Mag, Banshee or Loki, but more like Oberon, Excal, Frost, Valkyr, Hydroid, Mesa, Zephyr.

You'll be burning through that 638 energy with WoF in no time.

[PhoenixElite]

Words can not express how thankful I am for you pointing this out.

Yayz, now I don't have to make a post about this same problem, as well as others she has ;D

Edited April 7, 2015 by PhoenixElite

[Miyabi-sama]

Ahhahah! Ahhahahah... hahaheheeeee...

 

Instead of simply give Ember armor value between Chroma and Valkyr, they just freaking off her abilities.

It is not anymore a good frame. It is not even a frame that owns in pro hands. It's just a max'n'forget.

 

Personally I'm keeping her cuz she's beautiful.

Giving her Ignis (or any decent weapon with high Heat damage) and boosting Accelerant is the only way to OWN enemies on this frame.

[XxCurtennoxX]

Words can not express how thankful I am for you pointing this out.

Yayz, now I don't have to make a post about this same problem, as well as others she has ;D

Now it's just a matter of DE noticing it....

[Fate_Epsylon]

I've been battling these Ember Wars for years. They aren't going to get Ember right any time soon (nor do they plan to look into Ember properly). I just learn to use her and give up. 

[XxCurtennoxX]

I've been battling these Ember Wars for years. They aren't going to get Ember right any time soon (nor do they plan to look into Ember properly). I just learn to use her and give up.

Sadly they said they were done with Ember and that she's in a "good place", despite 90% of the community saying WoF was made worse..

[Monolake]

nevermind

Edited April 7, 2015 by Monolake

[KingIzek]

I understand your issue. But you have to also understand - corrupted mods were always meant to have a negative aspect to it. In this regard, Ember is probably the most balanced frame. Please reread what I said before blowing a gasket - In This Regard - meaning her functional uses with corrupted mods. The balanced just gets significantly tipped when you have frames like Mag that suffer absolutely no penalty by lose duration or like Saryn that actually GAINS effectiveness when using low duration.

 

I really mean no offense to anyone saying this, but a good ember just needs to be aware of everything - shes not you press one button and go frame. You need to be aware of whats around you, when and how to use your abilities and how to chain them. Like accelerant before WoF, this stuns just enough for to cover the casting animation + increases dmg. I think the majority of the dislike for her is because she is not a simple easy-to-use frame that does one thing very very very well. IMO she's truly a frame that requires skill to be excel in.

 

I love Ember, she was my first prime and also my profile pic. While I do agree with you that she's not in a good place; I don't agree with you since its cause of WoF or her interactions with Mods. I truly believe WoF is fine, since you should only activate it when mobs are around. That's what it's meant to do provide dps when people are around you and ONLY then. It's just being lazy if you want it on toggle since you will just toggle it forever. As for mods, as I stated, corrupted mods SHOULD have a negative impact on every function of a frame - It's not her fault, that she unfortunate enough to be the only frame that fits this.

 

Her main issue is that she deals fire dmg. Fire is not the best dmg to deal. Also accelerant should be her 1 not her 2 so its energy cost is set to 25. Also another guy posted with an ABSOLUTELY phenomenal idea to make accelerant like the resonance augment mod.

 

Anyways that's my two cents on it. Agree/disagree, this is the forum to do so. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by KingIzek

[Hypernaut1]

I understand your issue. But you have to also understand - corrupted mods were always meant to have a negative aspect to it. In this regard, Ember is probably the most balanced frame. Please reread what I said before blowing a gasket - In This Regard - meaning her functional uses with corrupted mods. The balanced just gets significantly tipped when you have frames like Mag that suffer absolutely no penalty by lose duration or like Saryn that actually GAINS effectiveness when using low duration.

I really mean no offense to anyone saying this, but a good ember just needs to be aware of everything - shes not you press one button and go frame. You need to be aware of whats around you, when and how to use your abilities and how to chain them. Like accelerant before WoF, this stuns just enough for to cover the casting animation + increases dmg. I think the majority of the dislike for her is because she is not a simple easy-to-use frame that does one thing very very very well. IMO she's truly a frame that requires skill to be excel in.

I love Ember, she was my first prime and also my profile pic. While I do agree with you that she's not in a good place; I don't agree with you since its cause of WoF or her interactions with Mods. I truly believe WoF is fine, since you should only activate it when mobs are around. That's what it's meant to do provide dps when people are around you and ONLY then. It's just being lazy if you want it on toggle since you will just toggle it forever. As for mods, as I stated, corrupted mods SHOULD have a negative impact on every function of a frame - It's not her fault, that she unfortunate enough to be the only frame that fits this.

Her main issue is that she deals fire dmg. Fire is not the best dmg to deal. Also accelerant should be her 1 not her 2 so its energy cost is set to 25. Also another guy posted with an ABSOLUTELY phenomenal idea to make accelerant like the resonance augment mod.

Anyways that's my two cents on it. Agree/disagree, this is the forum to do so.

I agree with you. I read so many people bashing Ember, yet I am still highly effective with her. Sure, modding my weapons to do some fire dmg helps- but she's still effective.

I actually save energy overall with WoF toggle. I use it as a quick blast instead of letting it run full duration. Only late t4 do I NEED to let it go full duration.

I'm not saying she is the best, but I definitely have her in my regular rotation because she's useful.

Ember With Ignis is very powerful. I can easily be the biggest dmg dealer/killer when using it. She fries entire crowds

Edited April 7, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[BlazeKitteh]

Yes, more Ember love!

 

Anyway I love to play her, tho i do feel like she just cant put out as much damage as anyone else, buut I usually have the most kills and % of dmg most of the time so its a bit strange.

She is more of a joke now days, "maybe I could bring Ember?" is usually met with laughter unless its a fast mission.

Then again I dont take her to high lvl missions where enemies scale over time because I might do well at the start but then I just start dying way too much.

 

Also I love playing strength build, even with low duration just means I can press 2 and then 4 faster, sometimes 1 so they just stand there burning, probably not the best way to do things but I have lots of fun.

[GinKenshin]

I understand your issue. But you have to also understand - corrupted mods were always meant to have a negative aspect to it. In this regard, Ember is probably the most balanced frame. Please reread what I said before blowing a gasket - In This Regard - meaning her functional uses with corrupted mods. The balanced just gets significantly tipped when you have frames like Mag that suffer absolutely no penalty by lose duration or like Saryn that actually GAINS effectiveness when using low duration.

 

I really mean no offense to anyone saying this, but a good ember just needs to be aware of everything - shes not you press one button and go frame. You need to be aware of whats around you, when and how to use your abilities and how to chain them. Like accelerant before WoF, this stuns just enough for to cover the casting animation + increases dmg. I think the majority of the dislike for her is because she is not a simple easy-to-use frame that does one thing very very very well. IMO she's truly a frame that requires skill to be excel in.

 

I love Ember, she was my first prime and also my profile pic. While I do agree with you that she's not in a good place; I don't agree with you since its cause of WoF or her interactions with Mods. I truly believe WoF is fine, since you should only activate it when mobs are around. That's what it's meant to do provide dps when people are around you and ONLY then. It's just being lazy if you want it on toggle since you will just toggle it forever. As for mods, as I stated, corrupted mods SHOULD have a negative impact on every function of a frame - It's not her fault, that she unfortunate enough to be the only frame that fits this.

 

Her main issue is that she deals fire dmg. Fire is not the best dmg to deal. Also accelerant should be her 1 not her 2 so its energy cost is set to 25. Also another guy posted with an ABSOLUTELY phenomenal idea to make accelerant like the resonance augment mod.

 

Anyways that's my two cents on it. Agree/disagree, this is the forum to do so. 

totally agree with this mate, I just wanted to say the same thing XD

everyone hates her cos they don't play her, it's not something bad, I bet in life almost everyone hates the thing he does the worse, it's no shame, she needs someone to know how to play with her and make effective

I really never gave up on her, even pre the HALF BUFF (cos it was a WoF nerf), I still loved her, only used her for infested but she rocks at that, and she's all about balance, again like life, if you want something, you have to give another thing to have it

though if I ever would change anything, I's say either return WoF like before (aka: remove toggle) or just remove the duration from the toggle 

[Kestral9999]

Are you talking about an endgame viable build for Ember? 

 

I wasn't even aware there was one.

 

I've always thought Ember sucks for anything beyond mid-late game.

[Neogeo]

Great, DE is giving Ember even more CC. As if Fire Blast knockback, Accelerant stun and fire proc still not enough. Guess I will stop getting one shot by Nullifier with my fully modded Ember. Nope, not going to happen anytime soon. I am looking forward for the day that I can finally bring Ember to high level void mission though. Hopefully, in this life time

Edited April 7, 2015 by Neogeo

[Hypernaut1]

Great, DE is giving Ember even more CC. As if Fire Blast knockback, Accelerant stun and fire proc still not enough. Guess I will stop getting one shot by Nullifier with my fully modded Ember. Nope, not going to happen anytime soon. I am looking forward for the day that I can finally bring Ember to high level void mission though. Hopefully, in this life time

But I do bring Ember into high level void missions.

Why is it that so few people aren't able to use her cc? I leap into crowd with Ember, stun, fire blast, WoF, use my weapons to finish off.

Her dmg still hits pretty hard deep into a t4 mission. I really don't know what everyone is going on about.

[Neogeo]

But I do bring Ember into high level void missions.

Why is it that so few people aren't able to use her cc? I leap into crowd with Ember, stun, fire blast, WoF, use my weapons to finish off.

Her dmg still hits pretty hard deep into a t4 mission. I really don't know what everyone is going on about.

How did you CC inside Nullifier bubble? Even if you kill the nullifier, it would took a sec for the bubble to disappear because of network delay. If there are Bombard inside the bubble, you will get knockdown and killed unless you waste one mod slot for handspring.