[Poll] How Much Longer Do You Think Warframe Will Be In Beta?

[Kasumi-]

It is not in beta its in normal development like any other MMO

False, it is in beta

[Poyomon2]

BETA means pre-release, NOT that it isn't finished. Windows/Linux/Mac OS constantly get updates, they aren't finished, does that mean they are beta? NO. Beta is pre-release software. If they weren't taking money, they could kinda get away with saying they are open beta, being tested by masses, but ever since the market place opened and they started accepting money, they became the definition of retail and CANNOT be considered pre-release in any shape or form.

 

Um... What?

 

I didn't say that when it's out of beta it's immediately branded as 'finished'...

 

Also, you just insinuated that it can be branded as 'finished' while in beta.

[DeejayPwny]

Part of the Software development glossary:

In software development, a beta test is the second phase of software testing in which a sampling of the intended audience tries the product out. (Beta is the second letter of the Greek alphabet.) Originally, the term alpha test meant the first phase of testing in a software development process. The first phase includes unit testing, component testing, and system testing. Beta testing can be considered "pre-release testing." Beta test versions of software are now distributed to a wide audience on the Web partly to give the program a "real-world" test and partly to provide a preview of the next release.

No where does this state they cannot have a cash shop. Beta means they are testing alongside players. They game is not marketed, it has not been advertised, it is being tested and developed based n our requests and what Devs still want/need to do. You can hate the idea of them making money off the game before launch, but with games being as large scale as they are now this is the model that helps them finish it.

[fractal_magnets]

Soon...

TM

[Poyomon2]

Part of the Software development glossary:

In software development, a beta test is the second phase of software testing in which a sampling of the intended audience tries the product out. (Beta is the second letter of the Greek alphabet.) Originally, the term alpha test meant the first phase of testing in a software development process. The first phase includes unit testing, component testing, and system testing. Beta testing can be considered "pre-release testing." Beta test versions of software are now distributed to a wide audience on the Web partly to give the program a "real-world" test and partly to provide a preview of the next release.

No where does this state they cannot have a cash shop. Beta means they are testing alongside players. They game is not marketed, it has not been advertised, it is being tested and developed based n our requests and what Devs still want/need to do. You can hate the idea of them making money off the game before launch, but with games being as large scale as they are now this is the model that helps them finish it.

 

Agreeing with this, but also, to the people who are saying 'It's not in beta because they accept money for it' (I'm guessing you paid money for platinum as well, so why are you complaining), but... who forced you to play if you're hating on the game so much? Because I certainly don't remember being forced to play and spend my own money on a game that I enjoy.

[weezedog]

Clearly there is a lack of understanding about what Alpha, Beta, Gold Release, and Retail product means.

Your product cannot be considered Beta (pre-released) if you are selling it to the general public. Once something is FOR SALE TO EVERYONE, it cannot be considered un-released. 

 

You can get away with calling something open beta, IF you aren't taking money for it.  

You can take money and still be beta if the user has to be a developer or have a developer account to test the software out, and the money is for a developer kit etc or special developer access.

 

BUT openly selling a product to the general public, which means you are opening releasing the product to the general public, is the definition of a retail product, and that cannot be considered a pre-release version in any way.

Edited April 10, 2015 by weezedog

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Around 2 years more. That's what it would take to finish tilesets for every planet, make proper version of every boss and finish up at least semi-decent quest campaign mode.

At some point beta tag becomes a negative. But you can't announce that you're approaching release with 2,5 quests for the entire game and half the bosses being placeholder models.

[Poyomon2]

Clearly there is a lack of understanding about what Alpha, Beta, Gold Release, and Retail product means.

Your product cannot be considered Beta (pre-released) if you are selling it to the general public. Once something is FOR SALE TO EVERYONE, it cannot be considered un-released. 

 

You can get away with calling something open beta, IF you aren't taking money for it.  

You can take money and still be beta if the user has to be a developer or have a developer account to test the software out, and the money is for a developer kit etc or special developer access.

 

BUT openly selling a product to the general public, which means you are opening releasing the product to the general public, is the definition of a retail product, and that cannot be considered a pre-release version in any way.

 

I don't understand why you're repeating the same thing over and over again. Also, they aren't selling the game. They're giving you the ability to pay money to help you play the game. Warframe can be played without paying a single cent/penny/whatever-your-currency-is.

[SilentMobius]

Clearly there is a lack of understanding about what Alpha, Beta, Gold Release, and Retail product means.

Your product cannot be considered Beta (pre-released) it it has been released it and are selling it to the general public. Once something is FOR SALE TO EVERYONE, it cannot be considered un-released. 

 

You can get away with calling something open beta, IF you aren't taking money for it.  

You can take money and still be beta if the user has to be a developer or have a developer account to test the software out, and the money is for a developer kit etc or special developer access.

 

BUT openly selling a product to the general public, which means you are opening releasing the product to the general public, is the definition of a retail product, and that cannot be considered a pre-release version in any way.

 

This is nonsense, I've been a software developer for 15 years now and shipping beta software to a paying client is perfectly normal in many situations, especially if the client has exotic needs or the reqs are prone to discovery issues.

 

Beta is as specified by @DeejayPwny: released to clients (Hence Open or Closed Beta) for testing. There is _nothing_ about accepting money that precludes beta status, that notion is, frankly, fiction.

 

Finally "Beta" is a developer term, it has no legal standing in sales law, nor does it make any difference other than what is specified in the contract (EULA)

Edited April 10, 2015 by SilentMobius

[weezedog]

I don't understand why you're repeating the same thing over and over again. Also, they aren't selling the game. They're giving you the ability to pay money to help you play the game. Warframe can be played without paying a single cent/penny/whatever-your-currency-is.

 

That is selling the game. Just because it's a micro-payment doesn't mean it's not selling the game. You are paying money for in-game product, you are purchasing part of the game.

[weezedog]

This is nonsense, I've been a software developer for 15 years now and shipping beta software to a paying client is perfectly normal in many situations, especially is the client has exotic needs.

 

Beta is as specified by @DeejayPwny: released to clients (Hence Open or Closed Beta) for testing. There is _nothing_ about accepting money that precludes beta status, that notion is, frankly, fiction.

 

That is completely different. They hired you to specifically develop software for them. The hired part is the key differentiation. They are paying you for milestones/hours worked etc. That is a pay-as-you go system. We did not hire DE.

Edited April 10, 2015 by weezedog

[WingedCrusade]

Part of the Software development glossary:

In software development, a beta test is the second phase of software testing in which a sampling of the intended audience tries the product out. (Beta is the second letter of the Greek alphabet.) Originally, the term alpha test meant the first phase of testing in a software development process. The first phase includes unit testing, component testing, and system testing. Beta testing can be considered "pre-release testing." Beta test versions of software are now distributed to a wide audience on the Web partly to give the program a "real-world" test and partly to provide a preview of the next release.

No where does this state they cannot have a cash shop. Beta means they are testing alongside players. They game is not marketed, it has not been advertised, it is being tested and developed based n our requests and what Devs still want/need to do. You can hate the idea of them making money off the game before launch, but with games being as large scale as they are now this is the model that helps them finish it.

I despise games out there that claim to be in beta yet have no real intentions to improve, all the while having a very strict P2W business model, just to get money without legally having to even stand by their games...

[Poyomon2]

That is selling the game. Just because it's a micro-payment doesn't mean it's not selling the game. You are paying money for in-game product, you are purchasing part of the game.

 

Micro-transactions and 'Selling the game' are not the same thing. Selling the game means you are making people pay for the right to play the game.

Micro-transactions are COMPLETELY OPTIONAL and have nothing to do with it. Warframe is A FREE GAME and it will always be that way.

[Kasumi-]

That is completely different. They hired you to specifically develop software for them. The hired part is the key differentiation. They are paying you for milestones/hours worked etc. That is a pay-as-you go system. We did not hire DE.

It's in beta because DE says it is in beta.

 

We all agreed to the OPEN BETA terms when we started the game for the first time.

 

There is a document IN THE GAME FOLDER about the beta terms.

 

It's beta.

 

You can't argue that it isn't, because it is.

[WingedCrusade]

Clearly there is a lack of understanding about what Alpha, Beta, Gold Release, and Retail product means.

Your product cannot be considered Beta (pre-released) if you are selling it to the general public. Once something is FOR SALE TO EVERYONE, it cannot be considered un-released. 

 

You can get away with calling something open beta, IF you aren't taking money for it.  

You can take money and still be beta if the user has to be a developer or have a developer account to test the software out, and the money is for a developer kit etc or special developer access.

 

BUT openly selling a product to the general public, which means you are opening releasing the product to the general public, is the definition of a retail product, and that cannot be considered a pre-release version in any way.

One; Warframe's a free game you dingus. Two, nowhere does it say that having micro transactions makes a game released. Three, there is literally a beta tag in the game itself that says "Open beta."

[SilentMobius]

That is completely different. They hired you to specifically develop software for them. The hired part is the key differentiation. They are paying you for milestones. That is a pay-as-you go system. We did not hire DE

 

Nope, I've seen clients buy a product on-spec that hasn't been completed yet and run the beta live until there is a final version. As I said, nothing about the developer label "Beta" precludes a sale.

 

Nothing, you are wrong, I have seen it happen with banks, telcos, security appliance manufacturers.

[Spindle99]

It will never come out of beta, whether you think that's good or bad depends on your point of view.

 

Current system.

Content additions are added fast, the players are the beta testers for new content.

DE get no negative reputation for having a buggy game because it's beta.

 

Positives of this?  DE throw content at you as fast a they can make it.

 

Final release versions.

Content additions have to be heavily checked and beta tested by paid staff before being added.  This increases costs and increases the gaps between content addition.  This is one of the reasons console players wait longer.

 

Positives of this?  Less bugs in content.

 

So it's either more content or less bugs?  Which do you really want?  You can't have both.

[DeejayPwny]

I despise games out there that claim to be in beta yet have no real intentions to improve, all the while having a very strict P2W business model, just to get money without legally having to even stand by their games...

I'm not saying there aren't games that abuse the terminology and whatnot, but anyone claiming warframe is doing that is either very I'll informed, or being willfully idiotic.

Warframe is far from a finished product. As has been said, many bosses are still placeholders. The quests are not fully implemented and developed (they don't all need to be made for a full launch, just... More than a couple frame quests and a couple early story items), and most planets are still using placeholder tiles. Warframe is still very much in development, and fits perfectly into the realm of an open beta.

[Corvid]

Technically, it's not in beta.

 

It's pre-alpha. Features are still being added.

[Clearos]

I think come 2016 we will see the beta title dropped.


I enjoy the game, keeping or dropping a 4 letter word is not going to change it. As long as they keep releasing content and extending the life of the game they can call it open omega or Warframe: Space Hamburgers

[weezedog]

I'm not saying there aren't games that abuse the terminology and whatnot, but anyone claiming warframe is doing that is either very I'll informed, or being willfully idiotic.

Warframe is far from a finished product. As has been said, many bosses are still placeholders. The quests are not fully implemented and developed (they don't all need to be made for a full launch, just... More than a couple frame quests and a couple early story items), and most planets are still using placeholder tiles. Warframe is still very much in development, and fits perfectly into the realm of an open beta.

 

I'm sorry, but it's like trying to say Windows 3.1, 95, 98, 98SE, ME, Vista, 7, etc are all the the beta version of Windows 8 because they had less features, and that Windows is still Beta because Windows 10 will have more features than 8. Just completely wrong. They are release product. Just because something continues to improve over time, doesn't mean you can keep calling it beta forever.

 

It used to be easy to know the release version, the version stamped on disc and released the general public was the release version. But since media is dead, and everyone is just distributing thing digitally where it can constantly be updated and modified, now you just try to keep calling it beta.

Edited April 10, 2015 by weezedog

[40880472.]

SOON™

 

Jokes aside, I wonder what's DE's definition of beta?

[WingedCrusade]

I'm not saying there aren't games that abuse the terminology and whatnot, but anyone claiming warframe is doing that is either very I'll informed, or being willfully idiotic.

Warframe is far from a finished product. As has been said, many bosses are still placeholders. The quests are not fully implemented and developed (they don't all need to be made for a full launch, just... More than a couple frame quests and a couple early story items), and most planets are still using placeholder tiles. Warframe is still very much in development, and fits perfectly into the realm of an open beta.

Oh nononono!! Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling Warframe that, in fact this is one of the only two games I'll continuously throw money at and support because they're just so into it when it comes to actually making it. DE listens to the community and tries constantly to appease most of us, while also trying to push out new stuff AND fixing dozens upon dozens of bugs and glitches on an almost daily basis. If that's not dedication, I don't even freaking know. People like EA and Ubisoft could learn a thing or two from DE.

Besides, you could get anything in this game without money just fine that you could /with/ money. So it's far from P2W.

[faustias]

I don't care if this is Beta or not. I want to shoot hordes with guns and space magic... and by the gods and Lotus, help me so.

 

 

But seriously, I don't care how long. I just want to play.

If they reset to "release" version, fine by me as long as I get full refund of the plats I earned from cash purchase and trading... or at least those purchased plat. and by means of refund, return of all plat I purchased so I can use them on release.

 

 

I'll never be surprised if DE turns into EA-like upon release. So many good games in my lifetime has been f.cked up, one way or another. I'll see for myself if I will still play or not.

[RonanFrost]

it will be in beta till DE says otherwise

Not a valid answer for the question asked, but ok

 

Technically, this is the only valid, or at least accurate answer.

 

 

Sorry, it hasn't been in beta for a long time. The minute you accept any money for the game from the general public, you are officially a retail product. Once a sale has occurred, you have crossed the threshold and there's no going back.

Guys, if you don't like the game, don't play it. Why are you complaining about a game (which you spent money on) supposedly 'not being in beta' when the game isn't even finished?

 

Look at steam. Early Access? Another phrase that is pretty much the same as BETA. You have to BUY those. This game is FREE.

 

BETA doesn't mean they aren't selling it. BETA means it ISN'T FINISHED.

 

Also, I'm sorry, but supposing that I'm wrong, I guess that means that Warframe has been a completed product since we could first play it, since you had to BUY INTO THE GAME.

 

 

 

 

BETA means pre-release, NOT that it isn't finished. Windows/Linux/Mac OS constantly get updates, they aren't finished, does that mean they are beta? NO. Beta is pre-release software. If they weren't taking money, they could kinda get away with saying they are open beta, being tested by masses, but ever since the market place opened and they started accepting money, they became the definition of a retail product and CANNOT be considered pre-release in any shape or form.

 

I can't speak for how steam tries to do their stuff, but early access should be just early access to the release version (gold master) of the game before the general public does. It's like seeing a movie premiere, you get to see the movie before everyone else does, but it isn't the BETA version of the movie, it's the final version.

 

 

The crux of these responses comes down to the industry trends. What used to happen behind closed doors, is now being brought to you early, so that you have a say, can offer feedback.  Alpha testing was nearly Always closed-office. Steps at a time ... there would be an in-house beta, friends-and-family closed beta (friends and family of devs) with NDA, and/or you'd have a closed beta with people being selected from applications and brought into the office. All of these things cost money to developers/publishers. All of these costs, used to get passed onto you as a consumer, at risk of a binary pass/fail on release. With the more recent trends, developers have learned how to reduce chances of total flop, as well as reduce cost .... the open beta. The game development industry is using the beta tests that we would Never have seen before, as a means to failsafe to give their fanbase what they want, as well as cut retail launch costs by inviting us to volunteer our time to do what used to be a paid position.

 

Operating systems getting updates, is like referring to world of warcraft getting updates. both are completed products, not pre-release. WF is not a completed product, as World of warcraft would not be considered completed if they did not have dungeons in place yet. Beta is essentially "dev/publisher considers it incomplete, work in progress."

 

That is where we are. As a consumer, you are given OPTION to contribute money to the game, to purchase things that Later will Still be yours to keep. Think of it like buying merchandise separate from the game itself, before game launch day. Purchase of merch does Not mean it is out of beta, but thank you for helping contribute to the game. The most important thing here, is that the beta that we are still in, is still being developed, it's not considered "finished" in terms of fleshing out content. They spend a Lot of time making sure they can keep us volunteer fans and beta testers happy and entertained, while they also work on other content. Thread after thread on this forum has pleas and suggestions for more content, so how can they consider it complete? Would you be happy with your purchase if you bought this as a "completed product" at $60 or more?

 

Yes, it feels finished in some ways. I suggest a better question, or at least wording...

 

DE, what else do you feel the game needs, before you will consider it ready and complete?

Edited April 10, 2015 by RonanFrost