vaugahn Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Which proves my point about the white knight army, say something seen as against DE and flame war ensues it seems? It's not a white knight army. The fact that you think that after all this is rather silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmuaddib Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Which proves my point about the white knight army, say something seen as against DE and flame war ensues it seems? I disagree, because it could be any big game, any company. Do you see? Just happens to be here. Developing and releasing content, either new or bugfix, is a really really complex subject. Like I said before, I can't tell how good it is, but it is not as bad as you think, simply because it is a damned difficult thing to do, whether you understand it or not. If you cannot recognize a misconception, and you keep telling everybody is a white knight because of it, you are bound to get some hate and punishment. Edit - I'm just trying to help you here, my advice, move on, and forget this thread. Edited April 22, 2015 by nmuaddib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindle99 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 I disagree, because it could be any big game, any company. Do you see? Just happens to be here. Developing and releasing content, either new or bugfix, is a really really complex subject. Like I said before, I can't tell how good it is, but it is not as bad as you think, simply because it is a damned difficult thing to do, whether you understand it or not. If you cannot recognize a misconception, and you keep telling everybody is a white knight because of it, you are bound to get some hate and punishment. Not at all, I have played many other games including mmo titles. I've posted on all the forums and I've posted in the same way I do here. None of them went full potato like many do here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 None of them went full potato like many do here. The Fextra life forums for the Souls games is exactly like this. You insult Dark Souls 1, people will flock to you and destroy you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindle99 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 At this time I would like to re-iterate my initial post: I was under the impression that there were teams assigned to everything, so a team for PVP, a team for Dojo work, a team for Archwing, a team for kubrows? If that is the case why don't we see more variety in the patches? I dont know when the last update was for Dojos or archwing was but it sure wasn't recent. It's sad that many aspects seem to appear to be put on back burners on this game. I know sharkwing (?) is coming but there are a TON of tweaks that could of been added to archwing in the meantime that could of been tested, if these things have not been added when you add that then it will be hated again. Also the Dojo situation is sad, it almost enver gets additions even though it's one of the easiest things to add stuff too (also make a personal housing version) >.>. This apparently hateful? and incredibly negative? "troll?" post is what got you all so emotional right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 And they do add cosmetics... Prime access cosmetic packs? No? I find it hard to believe a little too, and I'll admit that I'm a bit surprised they have not fixed it yet either. Trust me though, I can understand that the coding for that can get very ugly. If you've coded before, you would maybe have a little more understanding. Prime Access for the most part is not purely cosmetic, they also only come around once every ~3 months. What I'm referring to is more immortal type skins, and more weapons skins. They are relatively easier to make than say a Syandana, and would still bring in much more income. At this time I would like to re-iterate my initial post: I was under the impression that there were teams assigned to everything, so a team for PVP, a team for Dojo work, a team for Archwing, a team for kubrows? If that is the case why don't we see more variety in the patches? I dont know when the last update was for Dojos or archwing was but it sure wasn't recent. It's sad that many aspects seem to appear to be put on back burners on this game. I know sharkwing (?) is coming but there are a TON of tweaks that could of been added to archwing in the meantime that could of been tested, if these things have not been added when you add that then it will be hated again. Also the Dojo situation is sad, it almost enver gets additions even though it's one of the easiest things to add stuff too (also make a personal housing version) >.>. This apparently hateful? and incredibly negative? "troll?" post is what got you all so emotional right? It's not troll at all, people just exaggerate other view points and assume motives of other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindle99 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 The Fextra life forums for the Souls games is exactly like this. You insult Dark Souls 1, people will flock to you and destroy you. Well I will take your word for it since I have no played that or posted there. A question I have for you though, is that a good thing or a bad thing for this community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Let's say you have ten people on each team. That's seventeen teams. Are there more than seventeen things that go into game production? Also they always have people working on the next few big things Splindle needs a nappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb-ZA Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) OP makes good points, -snip- No, OP doesn't; because OP hasn't the foggiest idea about what software development entails and is making assumptions about DE's development processes based entirely around his/her subjective and uninformed opinion. Edit: In my case, at least, that's what my gripe is. I see know-it-all, entitled, customers speaking about subjects (development) they know nothing about, making ignorant demands, making uninformed accusations about us or my colleagues (the developers) on an almost daily basis. OP's post (or the attitude therein) mirrored their attitude identically: "You have X, you should be producing Y amount of Z." Edited April 22, 2015 by Kenboushou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehotsung8701A Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Reply here have white knight all over it. Your not going to get anything much out of this OP other than the devs seeing your post so I will bump it, because I agree with you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsionicSt0rm Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 My idea as to why they haven't (released/talked about) any recently suggestion or proposal from the forums might not only stem from the ideology of a "production line" but they might simply be a week or 2 behind what they are announcing. For example (to hopefully make things more clear) if they announce that some Archwing stuff is coming, we might expect that it comes in a weeks time. However, they might have intended it for 2 or 3 weeks time. If they do read this thread and take the note that, "Hey, we should get some Archwing stuff ready soon" it will probably take effect 1 or 2 weeks after it was suggested. I do agree that there is some areas that are incredibly lacking, but for us we just have to wait. We can say what we want but we cant change what is already in motion (unless there is a big force behind it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindle99 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Let's say you have ten people on each team. That's seventeen teams. Are there more than seventeen things that go into game production? Also they always have people working on the next few big things Splindle needs a nappy Why do I need a nappy T4LCOMX? Also how does your post answer why there have been no updates to Archwing fixing even minor things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Well I will take your word for it since I have no played that or posted there. A question I have for you though, is that a good thing or a bad thing for this community? It's both. It's good because it shows how a community is dedicated to a dev and showing them support. But it can be bad when it turns to blind faith. Where they absolutely ignore all flaws in a product and just see it as this masterpiece It's a grey situation. Edited April 22, 2015 by TheErebus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angary Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) I was under the impression that there were teams assigned to everything, so a team for PVP, a team for Dojo work, a team for Archwing, a team for kubrows? If that is the case why don't we see more variety in the patches? I dont know when the last update was for Dojos or archwing was but it sure wasn't recent. It's sad that many aspects seem to appear to be put on back burners on this game. I know sharkwing (?) is coming but there are a TON of tweaks that could of been added to archwing in the meantime that could of been tested, if these things have not been added when you add that then it will be hated again. Also the Dojo situation is sad, it almost enver gets additions even though it's one of the easiest things to add stuff too (also make a personal housing version) >.>. Without seeing the source code, I can only speculate. But in general, having multiple teams also means that there is a risk that Team PVP can implement a feature that will end up breaking Archwing. So you can't simply hope that everyone work on a feature and everything will magically integrate without breaking. What a good developer will do is writing a lot of test code on the features that he/she wants to merge. Test code that none of us will even see but they are there to make sure everything can come together. Does that make sense? Edited April 22, 2015 by Angary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 No, OP doesn't; because OP hasn't the foggiest idea about what software development entails and is making assumptions about DE's development processes based entirely around his/her subjective and uninformed opinion. See here, you're assuming again. I'm going to guess that you didn't read my post seeing as you're only replying to one part. Also, are you saying you know what DE's development process is like specifically? You're just doing the same thing you're "supposedly" arguing against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindle99 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 No, OP doesn't; because OP hasn't the foggiest idea about what software development entails and is making assumptions about DE's development processes based entirely around his/her subjective and uninformed opinion. Is that a requirement for posting here? Also how does "foggiest idea about what software development entails" have any impact as to why more variety in patches is not something worth asking for? Which game company do you work for Kenboushou? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehotsung8701A Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 It's both. It's good because it shows how a community is dedicated to a dev and showing them support. But it can be bad when it turns to blind faith. Where they absolutely ignore all flaws in a product and just see it as this masterpiece It's a grey situation. White knight are bad period, there is no good when it come to white knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 White knight are bad period, there is no good when it come to white knight. I never said white knights are good. Hell, if you actually read what I wrote, I said that turning to blind faith is bad. Meaning that white knights aren't good. I dislike white knights (yet I am called one a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindle99 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 I just want to make a final point here before I'll be unable to reply for a while due to being away from pc. The original post had no negative intention, it's not trolling. I like this game and I like the company, I spend money on it because I like it. If I didn't like it I would be playing something I did like. My initial post in my eyes was a valid one "why is it that a dev team of this size that has teams for everything seems unable to update a wider variety of content on a regular basis. Namely archwing and Dojo (among others)" I wasn't hating I was asking something that bothered me, and I assumed others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmuaddib Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Not at all, I have played many other games including mmo titles. I've posted on all the forums and I've posted in the same way I do here. None of them went full potato like many do here. Did you post this same criticism on the developers way of improving (because you cannot deny that they are improving) the game without knowing any specifics? I guess if you did, you would get the same reaction. But, changing subject, do you want to know why th Dojo and Archwing don't get attention, even though there should be a dedicated team to them? Because the Dojo has little importance to actual game play (you have chat and relays as alternatives, even the most important part of trading, the negotiation is not done on the dojo, just the exchanging of goods), and Archwing was not a "hit", it kind of failed. So it makes sense the company directs those resources to other priorities. This is called project management, it takes under consideration how the community is responding to what you release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 My initial post in my eyes was a valid one The initial post wasn't the problem. The problem was when people pointed out your error and you were unwilling to accept it and started calling everyone white knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 There are not teams for every single aspect of the game, mode wise. There is only a dedicated pvp team because it is a separate beast from the majority of the game. Just because they are still working on archwing with the inclusion of the water level they have been working on for months in the background as well as bosses and their mechanics. Does not mean alpha changes can just be shoved into hot patches as they may not be appropriate by the end of the project. One of the "easiest things to add stuff too" is purely a guess with no actual knowledge of what is easy to add and not. It might be the most open-ended in theory to add random junk to, but its also a business. Will what we add give the players motive to use this. Is this worth the effort and time compared to other projects currently on the table and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubewano Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 -snip- honestly i think de just has an issue with looking back, they like to keep pumping out new things and concepts with no regard to past efforts. as shown with the large number of neglected content in the game following their release. they give us something, polish it up a bit, and then leave it in the dust. which is a pretty ineffective mindset when it comes to the upkeep of quality content, since they always wind up just what they are with no growing potential/development. it takes a crap ton of effort from the community to get the de team to even consider relooking something that they've already done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb-ZA Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) -snip- Also how does your post answer why there have been no updates to Archwing fixing even minor things? Priorities; Archwing is likely low on their to-do list because it's working. If it was broken, that's a major bug and needs immediate attention; if it's not broken and only causes frustrations, that's a minor bug and is ranked lower and is attended to later; usually when the developers have time to get to it. See here, you're assuming again. I'm going to guess that you didn't read my post seeing as you're only replying to one part. Also, are you saying you know what DE's development process is like specifically? You're just doing the same thing you're "supposedly" arguing against. No, I didn't read it; I don't need to because I was responding to that one part. OP doesn't raise valid points because OP doesn't understand software development. If you want to raise criticisms against a professionals work, it's generally expected that you know the subject matter to which you are criticising; otherwise you come across as one of those people who think they know how other people should be doing their jobs despite said accuser having no prior experience in that field. I have over a decade of development experience; I don't need to assume. I know when someone doesn't have development experience. You can see it based on how they structure their arguments, thought processes (which they put into words), justifications, assumptions, demands and questions around the subject; just as any professional in their field would be able to see when someone doesn't understand the subject they're discussing. If I am wrong, then OP is woefully uneducated in software development; to the point of coming to incorrect conclusions and assumptions. No, I don't know DE's development process, nor shall I claim to; however, I can generate an educated guess (as can many others here) that is far closer to accurate than someone who does not have any development experience because I actually know what I'm talking about. Edited April 22, 2015 by Kenboushou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Why do I need a nappy T4LCOMX? Also how does your post answer why there have been no updates to Archwing fixing even minor things? Perhaps having archwing in the j3 trial will warrant those fixes ... Perhaps there will be aw fixes galore for that update. And because naps are good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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