Ability Spam Can Be Solved Easily.

[(PSN)Shadow_Of_Hunhow]

Make abilities stronger, but remove energy pools, and place all abilities on cooldown timers.

For example, let's take nova and her abilities. Put her first ability (can't remember the name atm) on a 15 second timer after it's finished, take wormhole and put it on a 20 second timer after it's disappeared, put antimatter drop on a 30-45 second timer, and m prime on a 2-3 minute timer.

You could also do what Destiny has done and make them longer, but then have it so killing enemies with other things decreases the cooldown by a small portion.

Energy max mods could simply be turned into a couple rare 5 cores for the normal, and legendary cores for the primed.

Efficiency mods would then decrease the cooldown by a percentage instead.

What do you think?

[Holbera]

No.

[mcryseria]

Earlier version of warframe had abilities on cooldown instead of energy if I remembered correctly. I vote no though.

Edited April 25, 2015 by mcryseria

[Kasumi-]

This thread has been made countless times in the past by too many people.

 

No.

[Tr1ples1xer]

But but ability spam is fun no ?

[TheErebus.]

But but ability spam is fun no ?

Not for everyone.

[(PSN)Shadow_Of_Hunhow]

But but ability spam is fun no ?

sometimes, but not if you can never get a kill on your own because that person over there just nukes anything that spawns.

[AsahiOka]

This again? no.

[(PSN)TheArrowOfGod]

[Gryphticon]

Not for everyone.

Why not?

[TheErebus.]

Why not?

Some don't like using the same thing over and over again.

Did you actually think everyone loves to do ability spam?

[(XBOX)XcrazeddoctorX]

No

[Tr1ples1xer]

sometimes, but not if you can never get a kill on your own because that person over there just nukes anything that spawns.

Change host, find players that play like you, don't change entire game because some people play dumb. That reasoning is the entire argument of all the nerfers ''This guy killed more enemies than me with is gunX , must nerf gunX'' and it as to stop to save WF. This is a coop game not a competition for kills, when someone is spamming 4 hes helping you out, I'd take that over nullifiers anyday.

 

Are you aware that you are requesting changes that affect all players because of only a few players that play the game in a way you don't like (btw no one is forcing anyone here).

 

Stop asking for nerfs or changes FFS the game is going to sheet.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Tr1ples1xer

[(PSN)Madkiller2580]

So what about my poor Trinity so I can't cast blessing for 2-3 minutes. Warframe is way too fast for ability cooldowns. Having to wait cast an ability just isn't the answer...

[Tsukinoki]

I have to vote NO for this.

I was here back when there were CDs in the game.
And it really, really sucked.

Here is the thing: The abilities in Warframe are designed to be spammed to be good.
You think 350 damage every 15 seconds is going to do anything above mercury?
Because that is what you're looking at when it comes to many 1 abilities.
It just wouldn't work at all.
At least with the current system and say Volt I can spam my 1 tons of times to stun an entire room until I get close enough to finish them up with something bigger.  With your idea that is now impossible.

Then you have frames like Vauban.
Especially his tesla augment.
How is he even supposed to get them working if he can only ever get 1 out at a time (They have a max duration of about 13 or so seconds so yeah...)

The simple fact is is that many of the abilities are designed around tossing out tons and tons of them.

And how would your idea handle toggle abilities, or duration abilities?
Especially abilities that do well with negative duration?

In short:
This was already tired.
It failed hard and they changed to the energy system and things got a lot better than it was with CDs.
They aren't going to go back.

EDIT:
Also, what would be the point of putting a pure mobility non damaging ability at a 20 second CD?
Are you peeved that novas and other frames with mobility abilities can get around faster than you or something?  That's an honest question....

Edited April 25, 2015 by Tsukinoki

[RealPandemonium]

Spam is good.  Abilities that break the game when you spam them are bad, and abilities that cost too little (or too much) for their effect are bad.  

[Valafor]

I have to vote NO for this.

I was here back when there were CDs in the game.

And it really, really sucked.

Here is the thing: The abilities in Warframe are designed to be spammed to be good.

You think 350 damage every 15 seconds is going to do anything above mercury?

Because that is what you're looking at when it comes to many 1 abilities.

It just wouldn't work at all.

At least with the current system and say Volt I can spam my 1 tons of times to stun an entire room until I get close enough to finish them up with something bigger.  With your idea that is now impossible.

Then you have frames like Vauban.

Especially his tesla augment.

How is he even supposed to get them working if he can only ever get 1 out at a time (They have a max duration of about 13 or so seconds so yeah...)

The simple fact is is that many of the abilities are designed around tossing out tons and tons of them.

And how would your idea handle toggle abilities, or duration abilities?

Especially abilities that do well with negative duration?

In short:

This was already tired.

It failed hard and they changed to the energy system and things got a lot better than it was with CDs.

They aren't going to go back.

EDIT:

Also, what would be the point of putting a pure mobility non damaging ability at a 20 second CD?

Are you peeved that novas and other frames with mobility abilities can get around faster than you or something?  That's an honest question....

 

This. Cool downs will kill Vauban whose incredibly squishy body relies on the CC of his abilities to keep him alive. If cool downs are added Vauban would be absolutely dead weight. Not to mention it would make Limbo useless since he can no longer spam Banish or use Rift Walk as pleased if it is in cool down.

[LythronaxPrime]

Another one of these threads? No. They tried it once, and it didn't work at all.

[Tsukinoki]

@Valafor
Gods I wasn't even thinking of Limbo, but he would be made utterly useless with this.
He could banish 1 enemy or ally every 15 seconds.
Good luck getting use out of his rift surge or doing literally anything that he is supposed to be good at.
And you can kiss his only survivability tool goodbye.

@OP
One more question I thought of:
What about Mirages Eclipse ability?
DE specifically made it so that you can re-cast it while it was active to refresh the duration and keep yourself in permanent eclipse.

There are just far too many corner cases in this game for a CD system like you're proposing....

[Otenko]

Doesn't removing the energy cost from ability usage also mean that Energy is only used for Quick Thinking, Channeling, and...uh....

 

I think putting a cooldown in lieu of the energy system is a bad idea. It results in Energy only being used for a handful of things. Things that are either rare or situational, since Channeling only works if you decide to equip your melee weapon and Quick Thinking isn't a mod everyone has.

 

This kind of results in the energy looking like an abandoned sub-system that is waiting to be replaced with something "better."

 

Now, I think energy works decently enough but this whole system was virtually bypassed with the introduction of Corrupted mods, namely Fleeting Expertise. I'm sure you'll find threads about people thinking Fleeting is similarly overpowered but that's another matter.

 

I remember reading an interesting suggestion on the forums that combined Energy and Cooldowns in a particularly neat way.

It said that each ability would have a cooldown after casting and cost no energy when the cooldown is over. However, it didn't lock you out of abilities during cooldown. You can still use the ability during cooldown, but it would cost less energy based on how close the cooldown is to being finished. I'm probably skipping a few details, but this was the gist of it.

 

So basically it's saying for a 25 energy ability with a 10 second cooldown:

 

Cooldown is over = 0 energy cost (or some similarly small amount)

 

Ability has just been cast, i.e. Cooldown is at maximum value = 25 energy cost, the current base energy cost.

 

5 seconds after ability has been cast, i.e. Cooldown has 5 seconds before being finished = 12.5 energy.

 

As far as I remembered, they said the energy cost would linearly scale with the cooldown. I thought it was pretty interesting, since it means you get to save/manage your energy if you don't exclusively rely on your abilities and it also means that players can work around having little to no efficiency on their frames. Currently, it's very unlikely that you'll find a frame that has no effciency mod on it. So, y'know it could be cool.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Otenko

[shut]

Spam is good.  Abilities that break the game when you spam them are bad, and abilities that cost too little (or too much) for their effect are bad.  

 

Bingo.

Mashing a button to cast special abilities is fine.

Mashing a button to destroy the map for little to no cost is somewhat less fine.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Why is spaming a problem to begin with? Evry ability consumes energy and building on dmg might be effective at lower lvls but it falls off rly fast at higher lvls. A max dmg build also makes spamming rly expensive, without sufficient options to replentish it once enemys don't die anymore.

The best DD usually becomes the weakest link pretty fast,sacrificing most if his defense for a subideal playstyle. (Max str= -duration and -efficiency.)

Best example was this saryn i played with some time ago. We did a t4 def. He was running a miasama build and i rolled with my seeking shuriken build. He owned the dps chart till like wave 5?10? And only died after that while i rezzed him evry time and was able to deal effective dmg on dbuffed enemys.

The game takes care of this problem itself pretty decent if you ask me.

[087SE-Miykhail]

 Nope.

If you want cooldown habilities go play mmos. 

Its a ninja game, its made to be fast and spammable.

[shut]

Its a ninja game, its made to be fast and spammable.

 

When I near "ninja game", I expect there to be lots of stunts and flipping and mobility and stuff like that. Standing in one spot and mashing a single button for AoE nukes is literally the opposite of what I'd expect from such a game.

If anything, it's closer to the MMOs that you mention.

 

EDIT:

Not saying that cooldowns are okay, though. Arbitrary cooldown timers have no place in a shooting game.

Edited April 26, 2015 by SortaRandom

[087SE-Miykhail]

Them go play FPS like COD or BF. Dam.