The 'tenno Are Energy' Theory Is Busted

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

It's Canon

No, it's not.

[SilentMobius]

It's Canon

 

Here is the Devstream where it is stated that Dark sector is _not_ canon:

 

https://youtu.be/j7QVemHYKn4?t=3397

 

Steve: Is Dark Sector Canon for Warframe, and we're always kind of evasive about that because we, well we didn't even control that intellectual property when we started Warframe and that's why it wasn't called "Dark Sector Online" or anything like that. A lot of the ideas we had for Dark Sector Sci-Fi, hard-core Sci-Fi, are the ideas that are now taking fruition in Warframe so absolutely, is it like, the prequel to Warframe? I don't think you could say that but as you can see we are trying to draw those influences in.

Sheldon: On a scale. if Primetime is a 0 on the Warframe Canon. Then it would be a 4 or a 5 (gesturing half way across a scale)

 

So there you are: 4/5 out of 10. That is, any given element of DS is less that 50% likely to be applicable to Warframe.

 

Hayden Tenno? Existed in the past of Warfame: tick

Alive in the 80s, during the cold war?: maybe not

Infected with the technocyte virus?: maybe not

Wore the suit we call the "proto excalibur"?: maybe not

Mezner, existed?: Maybe not

Suit existed that looked like Nemesis?: tick

Nemesis was Nadia Sudek, died fighting Hayden?: maybe not.

 

etc etc.

 

That said I _do_ think that Warframes and Orokin technology use the technocyte virus as components because of a Warframe devstream where the devs describe the use of the "living metal" in a manner that perfectly fits the rise of the Orokin and their use of Forma

 

http://youtu.be/elXEQSf4jeY?t=56m15s

 

Warframe takes place waaay beyond that timeframe. Ridiculously after, If you can imagine something like that, something that integrates itself with the body or could be re-purposed as technology this idea of metal that is also alive and changeable and so on, and the way it channels energy, this is deja vu, but we talked about, when we talked about a sequel ages ago we were talking about taking a big leap forward in time and saying "what were the societal repercussions of this idea"

 

My personal conclusion of "most likely historical progression" right now is: The Orokin mastered the technocyte virus, created forma. Discovered the connection between void-touched beings and the more active creations of the virus, created the Tenno and Warframes, Created a "Viral" Warframe which went out of control and became Lephantis, which spawned the modern Infestation which is just a specific strain of the original virus.

Edited June 24, 2015 by SilentMobius

[Urlan]

"News Flash"? Not quite the best tone there Avenwing for discussion. Yes, I well aware of the mutalist creatures being due to Alad V, except of course the Arcane Boiler from the Stolen Dreams, that guy seemed to have possibly been there for a while. I especially liked that when we returned to the same room in New Strange, his corpse was grown over by the Technocyte plants already. You noticed the walls of the infested ships I gather? I would assume as well that the metal of the chargers and Corpus crewman is mostly asimilated from their outfits, it still remains that the flesh is growing into and merging with the metal. Also, the living metal exoskeleton skin was mentioned in the infested bible exerpt showing Warframe infested concept art as a trait of infested biology.

[arch111]

Nano Spoes

"Fibrous technocyte tumor. Handle Infested tissue with caution."

Used for : Glaive, Dread, Paris, Kunai, Ignis among others.

Mutagen Mass

"This living mass can produce weaponized toxins for weaponry."

Used for: Paracyst, Acrid among others.

Neurodes

"Biotech sensor organ harvested from Infested entities."

Used for: orokin reactor, Forma, Boltor, Dark Sword among others.

Morphics

"An amorphous solid. Possibly Orokin technology."

Used for: Forma, Reactor, Catalyst, Glaive, Paris, Skana, warframe chassis, warframe systems among others.

■□■□

See the common link here? It is all living and shapable metal and tissue; all from the technocyte right down to the warframes.

I dare say it is pretty conclusive that the Orokin GREW their technology, just like they grew their army and slaves.

[Morec0]

Here is the Devstream where it is stated that Dark sector is _not_ canon:

 

https://youtu.be/j7QVemHYKn4?t=3397

 

 

So there you are: 4/5 out of 10. That is, any given element of DS is less that 50% likely to be applicable to Warframe.

 

Rewatching that and listening to it, it sounds more to me like the "4/10ths" IS actually just sort of the visual themes and similarities - which they mention just a bit before talking about that. Story is it's own thing, even with the Proto-Armors - which I guess would bring us back to the "Marathon in Halo" theory of what their lore applies to.

 

As for Orokin "growing" their technology, seems reasonable. They seemed to be all about genetics and the like - hell, I still think Earth is the result of them using that technology to make a personal zen garden of global proportions.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Morec0

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Rewatching that and listening to it, it sounds more to me like the "4/10ths" IS actually just sort of the visual themes and similarities - which they mention just a bit before talking about that. Story is it's own thing, even with the Proto-Armors - which I guess would bring us back to the "Marathon in Halo" theory of what their lore applies to.

 

 

*ego intensifies*

[Urlan]

I can agree that the picture of the Orokin we have seen so far seems to be of supreme genetics experts but I think they focused more heavily on this as their technology became taken over by the Sentients. So far we know that they had gone to the point that for the longest time, it would have been strange for the normal creation of young probably suggesting tube babies; we know they grew the Grineer; and at least experimented in the use of infested both as in the creation of replacement tech but also for bioweapons against the Sentients with Lephantis and other  older infested strains.

 

The Children of Zariman and the exact nature of the warframes still allude us, but I am sure that with the coming of the Sentients more of our story wil be revealed.

[arch111]

I have said it before, but there is a reason the Tenno trained in forgotten martial arts and used projectiles and swords.

The Era of the Orokin was pure high sci-fi with warmachines and lasers.

At what point the Orokin began loosing is unclear, but since there are lies about the past I think there is a twist in there somewhere.

Maby one of the lies is that the warframes was not built in the end of the war, but when the Orokin felt they WOULD LOOSE.

Infested tissue and tc is in everything. Like the entire solarsystem is built or polluted by it. The warframes ARE partially organic, and Partially metallic.

It stand to reason that the reason for this is the Sentients nature of corrupting technology; add an organic part to the mix and it becomes much harder to take over.

I think however that the Orokin used genetic engineering long before they ever met the Sentients.

It is allso a possibility that the technocyte is allso part alien, and the reason why the Sentients hacked Orokin weaponry so easily.

[Morec0]

I have said it before, but there is a reason the Tenno trained in forgotten martial arts and used projectiles and swords.

The Era of the Orokin was pure high sci-fi with warmachines and lasers.

At what point the Orokin began loosing is unclear, but since there are lies about the past I think there is a twist in there somewhere.

Maby one of the lies is that the warframes was not built in the end of the war, but when the Orokin felt they WOULD LOOSE.

Infested tissue and tc is in everything. Like the entire solarsystem is built or polluted by it. The warframes ARE partially organic, and Partially metallic.

It stand to reason that the reason for this is the Sentients nature of corrupting technology; add an organic part to the mix and it becomes much harder to take over.

I think however that the Orokin used genetic engineering long before they ever met the Sentients.

It is allso a possibility that the technocyte is allso part alien, and the reason why the Sentients hacked Orokin weaponry so easily.

 

And further distant it from a machine by removing any kind of CPU A.I. and having an actual conscious pilot - the Tenno - and it's pretty much beyond Sentient control.

 

And it's most definitely certain they used genetic engineering for some time - the Grineer's very existence and the Anti Moa Synthesis quote "Orokin didn't have parents like you... It was done... differently" confirms that. But if that was the go-to, "this is our technology, we use this for EVERYTHING", I don't think so. The existence of the Corrupted (and presumably the Neural Sentry with them) suggests the main armed forces (or at least some kind of preferred one) was hooked up to a computer.

 

I remain skeptical of the idea that the Technocyte (or whatever the Infestation equates to in this universe) is alien, though. Nothing seems to suggest it, other than the assumption that "our technology" referred to in the Excal Codex was the Technocyte as well - of course, it's also an assumption to say the same, so who the hell knows in the end?

[PookieNumnums]

The first release of proto excal Megan said the two were inextricably connected

And wasn't Hayden tenno Inscribed somewhere in game in tenno script

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

 "Orokin didn't have parents like you... It was done... differently" 

So the Orokin were test-tube babies... So who created them? If that's how it works...

The first release of proto excal Megan said the two were inextricably connected

And wasn't Hayden tenno Inscribed somewhere in game in tenno script

Inextricably connected, yes... By easter eggs.

 

Excal's shoulder. More easter eggs.

[PookieNumnums]

I think they also said it's same universe much much later.... Doesn't that make it Canon

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I think they also said it's same universe much much later.... Doesn't that make it Canon

"I think" is not an "I know". It was confirmed non-canon in that Devstream.

[Morec0]

So the Orokin were test-tube babies... So who created them? If that's how it works...

 

Earlier humans. If we're to take into account that even the term "Grineer" is just "people loyal to the Queens" (in the modern Origin System), and that the Father in the Anti Moa-Synthesis suggests that he was an Orokin himself in one of the exchanges with his kid but seemingly doesn't consider himself such anymore, it's possible that being "Orokin" is just a state of mind. A state of mind that later could have been reinforced via genetic conditioning, allowing some to be more "Orokin" than others...

 

Basically they were Space Aryans.

[SilverBones]

I think they also said it's same universe much much later.... Doesn't that make it Canon

 

I think the original intent was to have some ties to the old darkSector game, but not on the level people expected. Eventually Steve came out and said the above; that Warfame has a lot of it's design and concept roots in darkSector, but it is not a canon part of the world. The Dev stream explains it a lot more clearly than I am here.

 

Also I would like to point out that The Grineer rose out of the ashes of the Orokin fall, that they came into being after the Tenno had departed the solar system for their hibernation. We can assume that the Grineer and the Corpus (who likewise see orokin technology as both a religious and scientific discovery) came to power well after the fall, hence why their analogues of Orokin technology are inferior, along with the things like cloning ability and genetic manipulation. This could also explain why Vor usues metaphors to describe what he sees in the opening quest lines. He has no earthly concept of energy-based creatures so he describes it as only he knows how.

 

Look how much damage Vor does with just his limited understanding of the Janus Key. Orokin knowledge of void-based technology probably far superceded that.

 

So the Orokin were test-tube babies... So who created them? If that's how it works...

 

Also, who says that? For all we know, the speaker could be referring to natural birth, something almost barbaric and wierd to someone who was raised from a clean, biologically pure specimin, perhaps. How do you explain natural birth to someone who knows only genertic recoding and cloning?

 

Yeah, gross.

[SilentMobius]

I think they also said it's same universe much much later.... Doesn't that make it Canon

 

They didn't and I just posed an explicit devstream statement saying that Warframe is not a sequel to DS _and_ that it was at best 4 out of 10 applicable, where a 10 is canon.

 

Warframe is a reboot, some names are the same but the story is not. This is absolutely clear now, we have an explicit statement.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Basically they were Space Aryans.

*Borat voice* Naughty naughty!

[Morec0]

Also, who says that? For all we know, the speaker could be referring to natural birth, something almost barbaric and wierd to someone who was raised from a clean, biologically pure specimin, perhaps. How do you explain natural birth to someone who knows only genertic recoding and cloning?

 

Yeah, gross.

 

The father in the Anti Moa Synthesis, after the son asks "What about your corpus, don't you miss them? Your father?". The father immediately replies: "Orokin didn't have parents like you do, it was done differently then."

 

Which leads me to a few conclusions - Orokin used test tube cloning for reproduction, Orokin were human (as these are most certainly the starting-most members of the Corpus, who are human), and the Orokin refers to anyone in the Empire who wasn't a role race (which I'd say includes these Lorist figures as well as the Grineer).

 

 

*Borat voice* Naughty naughty!

 

Now I'm picturing a Borat Grineer... *shudder*.

[Morec0]

Perhaps a bit off-topic from what's intentioned, but I'm re-reading the C. Ancient lore and a particular bit struck me as odd: 

 

"Hesitation was building on Menz's face. I had command authority but if he balked, the soldiers would follow him. I needed to force his support, "If you were Tenno, there'd be no question."

 

"The betrayers..." he stopped himself."

 

What exactly was the consensus reached about this? I sort of missed that whole thing - but it strikes me as odd that the Lorist seems to be pulling a "a Tenno would follow my orders" card when they seem to have already betrayed the Empire (and either directly or indirectly contributed to this Infested outbreak).

[Alan]

Just a big "what if"

 

What if there is a body inside the warframe, a vessel. And the tenno control those bodies (?)

Because when you fight infested Mesa, Lotus sort of says "That is NOT a Tenno"

 

I believe it is explained in the last 83 pages and I'm being part of the problem but I must know!

[Morec0]

Just a big "what if"

 

What if there is a body inside the warframe, a vessel. And the tenno control those bodies (?)

Because when you fight infested Mesa, Lotus sort of says "That is NOT a Tenno"

 

I believe it is explained in the last 83 pages and I'm being part of the problem but I must know!

 

The issue I also run into when considering this theory is "where does that body come from?" and "why can't we just 'posses' the Warframe directly if it works like that?". Admittedly there are argument around this, but whether or not those hold up to a good pressing depends on how tired I am or not.

[Jakcal]

 

Perhaps a bit off-topic from what's intentioned, but I'm re-reading the C. Ancient lore and a particular bit struck me as odd: 

 

"Hesitation was building on Menz's face. I had command authority but if he balked, the soldiers would follow him. I needed to force his support, "If you were Tenno, there'd be no question."

 

"The betrayers..." he stopped himself."

 

What exactly was the consensus reached about this? I sort of missed that whole thing - but it strikes me as odd that the Lorist seems to be pulling a "a Tenno would follow my orders" card when they seem to have already betrayed the Empire (and either directly or indirectly contributed to this Infested outbreak).

 

Maybe there were people who supported the Tenno :OOO

Like a Tenno Rights Movement.

[Avenwing]

 

Perhaps a bit off-topic from what's intentioned, but I'm re-reading the C. Ancient lore and a particular bit struck me as odd: 

 

"Hesitation was building on Menz's face. I had command authority but if he balked, the soldiers would follow him. I needed to force his support, "If you were Tenno, there'd be no question."

 

"The betrayers..." he stopped himself."

 

What exactly was the consensus reached about this? I sort of missed that whole thing - but it strikes me as odd that the Lorist seems to be pulling a "a Tenno would follow my orders" card when they seem to have already betrayed the Empire (and either directly or indirectly contributed to this Infested outbreak).

 

She's trying to rescue her sister, I have a feeling the Tenno would be more than willing to follow orders in pursuit of such a goal. I'm personally of a mind that after we found out the real reason we were created for (the lore leads me to believe we were around before the Orokin/Sentient war) and how the Orokin treated those they deemed lesser than themselves we decided that they were just as worthy of destruction as the Sentients.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Avenwing

[-InV-igo95862]

 "where does that body come from?"

 

Clone?

 

Build from infested flesh? Last ask cephalon said that foundary can build from infested flesh.

[arch111]

Perhaps a bit off-topic from what's intentioned, but I'm re-reading the C. Ancient lore and a particular bit struck me as odd:

"Hesitation was building on Menz's face. I had command authority but if he balked, the soldiers would follow him. I needed to force his support, "If you were Tenno, there'd be no question."

"The betrayers..." he stopped himself."

What exactly was the consensus reached about this? I sort of missed that whole thing - but it strikes me as odd that the Lorist seems to be pulling a "a Tenno would follow my orders" card when they seem to have already betrayed the Empire (and either directly or indirectly contributed to this Infested outbreak).

There is more to it.

She obviously knows the Tenno, and are not afraid of them. Tenno would never have hesitated to fight infested.

So she pulls him back to the time before the betrayal when Tenno was like Jedi knights who came along for the real big jobs.

She is over 100 years old and it seems.she thought the Tenno were all gone untill she sees one.

This ties into Darvo saying that the Tenno are not Betrayers, and the fact that it is obviosly a Lie that the Tenno went into cryo after they killed the Emperors.

This must be a time when Orokin are still around and Grineer are establishing their hold.

Certainly this must be before the Moa Synthesis.

So what exactly DID the Tenno do in those years? And when will we find out...