Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]

[Kuestenjung]

I'm not a spacing and paragraphs person so doesn't matter to me just had to state what I needed about the proposed changes when you have so many though and ideas you want to expound upon you just have to let it all out sometimes.

 

You don´t care about your own post?

 

Why should anyone else care?

[Shehriazad]

Tbh...only 1 thing is important....ALL the tilesets need to be available at all times, please. 


Because normal tilesets disappearing for hours or days is unacceptable for me...I can understand shrinking nodes..but don't turn tilesets into a rotational thing, please.


And I am also scared that it sounds like that even bosses will phase in and out. This means that working or school/studying people will end up not getting to farm frame X because he only came on rotation last tuesday...which is when you were at work/school and now it won't return for another week. 


Please DE....careful...very careful.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Shehriazad

[Gale47]

Oh would you look at that, another panic thread just akin to the one that was talking about Star Armor. Oh wait.

 

EDIT: Then there was one about some weapon skins that the Chinese will have temporarily, too.

 

The community here LOVES to hate DE's conceptual work, only to see further down the line that they sure as hell know what they're doing. Put some faith into them, eh?

Edited May 9, 2015 by Gale47

[bluntpuffer]

Luckily i nearly never play warframe anymore. The amount of restrictions that have been added to the game is reducing the fun of it more and more and more and more and more and more.

 

Still waiting for actual improvements since archwing has been released.

[Gale47]

Luckily i nearly never play warframe anymore. The amount of restrictions that have been added to the game is reducing the fun of it more and more and more and more and more and more.

 

Still waiting for actual improvements since archwing has been released.

Good thing you're not involved in the community, too.

What restrictions do you speak of?

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

You don´t care about your own post?

 

Why should anyone else care?

I don't have to be that conscious I just want to get my message across I'm here to discuss an issue not my writing style.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

This. I'm trying to be rude bro.

Go be rude somewhere else.

Edited May 9, 2015 by HARDCORE_DAVE

[Gale47]

I don't have to be that conscious I just want to get my message across I'm here to discuss an issue not my writing style.

If you want to get your point across, write something people will want to read. I skipped your original post because it's so densely written and read the "paragraphed" piece one of the users prepared instead. 

[Legonist]

As someone who solos everything except alerts, events and t3/t4 defense missions I really dislike this change. It will remove a large portion of my choice I have in what types of missions I want to run. Going down to 20 nodes will remove many of the choices that I really liked about soloing. Don't get me wrong I still like getting into groups and do think a better system is needed so that the many nodes don't make it impossible to get a group but, how will they fit any choice except mission mode into 20 nodes? How will they fit in tile set choice? How will they don't fit in enemy type? How will they fit in bosses so that players can get warframes? How will difficulty and level be chosen? 

 

At the moment very little has been display in how any choice will be factored into 20 nodes to achieve their desired effect of getting people to group together. Will RNG be the ruler of the stars, cuz from what I hear that's whats gonna happen and that sounds like a very bad idea as not everyone wants to be 'surprised'.

[Shiichibukai]

Removing all mission nodes is probably a very bad idea and having it be RNG based is even WORSE. Please rethink this carefully.

[Dhrekr]

 

Speak for yourself.

 

[Yezzik]

Tbh...only 1 thing is important....ALL the tilesets need to be available at all times, please. 

Because normal tilesets disappearing for hours or days is unacceptable for me...I can understand shrinking nodes..but don't turn tilesets into a rotational thing, please.

And I am also scared that it sounds like that even bosses will phase in and out. This means that working or school/studying people will end up not getting to farm frame X because he only came on rotation last tuesday...which is when you were at work/school and now it won't return for another week. 

Please DE....careful...very careful.

 

Everything is now Vauban. Every weapon, every frame, ever resource, every mod, every prime, every scan, every Synthesis target, every tileset, every enemy.

EVERYTHING is now Vauban.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Seems like a direct attack on farming as a whole. Can't really go to your favorite defense to get neural sensors if you have to randomly get it. Also can't build for specific missions which makes everyone run vanilla builds to compensate.

The lattice style star chart was simple and effective, this is a case of breaking something then breaking the broken thing further.

I don't know if any of you played Star Wars Galaxies, the developer pushed and forced a major change that everyone thought was a bad idea (NGE update), it literally killed the game over a short period of time, lead to droves of players quitting and killed the game completely within a year.

 

This was a previously very successful MMO.

 

I'm not saying this is the same thing, I'm saying it could be and that DE should take this more seriously than they are here, when a dev says "we know players are going to be really really mad about this but we are going to do it anyway" that's worrying.

 

I would advise DE to read up on the NGE update on Star Wars Galaxies to see how fast a successful game can be destroyed with a really bad desicion.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/26/a-star-wars-galaxies-history-lesson-from-launch-to-the-nge-5/

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

I think there are far more elegant solutions to the new player problem of having all these planets and no direct sense of progression and direction than nuking it all so that the people that hold your game together could potentially suffer.

 

If you're going to condense things down you can't say stuff like "oh this boss like vor might be a random event." That just takes away choice from new players and pushes more towards a greedy agenda - Oh a new player wants Rhino? shame that boss might not be in rotation or appear for another x amount of weeks. Better buy him from the marketplace instead!

 

And if you're seriously going to go through with this there needs to be clear choices for mission types and level ranges. Lowest/Low/Medium/Intermediate/Hard (Being the level 28-30 nodes) and have to contain all the mission types within these category's. You could shave SO much from the star map by just trimming away all the repeat missions from certain planets and then making sure the remaining ones can generate the tilesets from the ones you trimmed away. (Since you brought up Draco you could easily add 2-3 more iterations of the map.)

I do agree with the OP and for that I will express my opinion with spacing an paragraphing you guys like so much.

 

The problem with the game right now is that DE has not had a specific plan for the future which results in the game now going through some drastic changes which can be seen as highly controversial. This is first of all to be seen in the way the game is "expanding and second of all this can be seen in the way storyline is added at the moment while it is contradicting the older storylines. The result of this is seen in the players losing direction in the game as newer players find themselves with tons of stuff to do and veterans are getting bored with RNG.

 

To start off we see that the "expansion" of the game has not been completely thought through when the game was created and there have also not been any real guidelines which have been followed. This can be seen as at first the game was set to expand and expand. With new planets and missions being added and the Void as an extra addition the game grew and expanded. It was in the early solarmap the way things moved along was also very easy to see, however I will return to that topic later on. 

 

Then after a while a new plan was created where the game did not really added more maps, but improved them with operations and events like the Prosecutors to obtain beacons. Like this the solar map became more popular as it has lost people to the Void. However, as seen with the prosecutors of today, these events and operations were only good for a short amount of time and the aftereffect was even less activity on the higher levels solar maps. This due to all the veterans completing Hydroid after a while, giving them no further reason to play, and all the newer players only doing selected operations or events. Alongside with the Void RNG systems, which got more annoying as DE released content, but did not increase the Void, taking up so much time for veteran player which made most of them play as efficient as possible this resulted in some missions being completely abandoned. 

 

Now we see that DE is heading to yet another direction, making everything smaller. As we have seen with the removal of Frost, Latron and Reaper prime, DE has shown us that they do not want to expand the void, or make a better use of the Derelict, but remove some prime parts to make up space for a new item. This is all nice and well, but again it is not a sustainable solution as either fewer and fewer prime content has to be release, or more and more prime content will be completely unavailable to new players, or players will literally starve behind their computer as they face an even more screwed up RNG. 

 

The second indicator of DE not having a real direction in mind is the storyline. As we have seen ealier on the Warframes were meant to be characters on their own, but after squad with 4 excaliburs were formed, this idea was abandoned and the real idea of what a warframe really was was left in the dark (or in the Void , hehehe). This can also be seen in the original warframes released after the first wave of them as the were all released without a certain story on them and the codex just indicating their abilities. There was no story needed as the frames were just added as assasination rewards and people were left to speculate for themselves.

 

However with the change of plans and the halt of expanding the Solar map, there were no new assasinations to added new frames to, while the community demanded new frames to be released. This resulted in Quests where warframes were acquired by completing the quest. However, as a quest was not as simple as just slaying a boss and needed a story to be based on, DE had to create stories around warframes and to do so they had to define the warframes. This first resulted in some random quests, like limbo and mirage which created a big division in the lore of Warframe with certain parts contradicting both the suit and the energy theorie. 

 

So now, DE found themselves in quite a mess with more and more random storylines coming up and they created an idea for themselves. This can be seen in the introduction of Spy2.0 where they first set up a quest which would have a continuation in the next quest. Also with the introduction of Warframe China and new lines said by Ordis DE had most likely decided to choose the Warframe suit theorie and create content according to that. However, now they are left with loose ends and contradictions which some energy-lore supportes will most likely explain to you.

 

Both of these factors result in the players losing direction in the game and having no real idea what to do. As straightforward as the old Solarmap was, pointing out which way to go after unlocking a mission, so confusing the situation is right now. No longer have new players any clue of where to progress and with the Region and Recruiting chat only discussion Void, they tend to think that the Void the goal of the game. This results in them leaving the original solarmap as soon as they can and leaving many content locked, resulting in abandoned missions. To improve this, I'd recommend a system like the old solarmap, though I like the neatness of this one, but this will at least give new players an idea of where they have to go, instead of them having little clue on how to unlock planets and having people who done many assasinations getting stuck with tons of navigation segments

 

Furthermore with the current RNG which is overloaded as there is no extra void released, veteran players have to spend all their time on the Void. When starting with the void this is not a real big deal, but when you have to play two weekends straight T3 Surv 40/60 mins to obtain the final Volt Chassis part and you only end up with orokin cells or forma blueprints, you ain't gonna spend any time doing the original solarmap missions. This causes less veterans to be on the solarmap, making it even less attractive to play.

 

To conclude, the problem of the current situation lies inDE not really having a plan to start with and them taking all sorts of moves which ended up in this situation. As can clearly be seen with the expanding-not growing-declining politics they use on the solarmap as well as the storyline which ahs to deal with many loose ends and contradicting parts. As to the empty solarmap levels, which is mainly caused by new players having lost direction by the current solar map and the veteran players being caught up in the RNG of the Void, the solutions thought up to solve this (operations, beacons, hives, etc) have only resulted in a temporarily increase of the activity on the solarmap and have now resulted in an even worse lack of players on certain missions. 

 

To solve this issue I'd recommend that the solarmap will be changed, with a mixture of the current layout and the straightforwardness of the old one. Also I'd like to recommend that the storyline is being revisioned and every bit of the story told in the game is considered and made towards a point with no unintended loose ends and little to no contradiction. As to making the solarmap more popular, I'd recommend against removing missions, but instead giving meaning to missions. As we have seen that missions with meaning, like operations now attract most of the attention on a planet, I'd say, create the following missions on a planet in the idea of a couple which go though the main path on a planet (as seen with the old map, these would be the missions straight on the path towards the next planet), for these missions create a campain which guides the players through the story of warframe ( this will consist of all different kinds of missions). Then you've got your main path, you still have some nodes left. For those use some as to either alerts or operations and the others with some good rewards, as those are really missing. As to those rewards think of a good void key farm, or a place where weapon parts can be farmed which can be used for the next planet, or a good XP farm for the average level on the planet, like we see draco being so popular, or even a credit farm. 

 

This will give meaning to the missions on the solar map, making them interesting again and increasing the activity on there without getting rid of  a stupidly huge amount of missions and limiting the players' options. Also combining the story within this will solve the lore problem now and will make warframe more than a grind, grind, RNG, rage, grind, grind game, and really make the player feel the sensation of the game.

 

This is what I think of the current situation and I hope you liked reading it, I would most certainly like it if someone from DE read this and did something with it, but with the chance of that being about the same as me winning a Lamborghini today I don't expect them to do so, instead, let's just discuss you points of view on this. Cheers

[Spindle99]

You know what would be really funny? After 3 days when the mission finally appear, you don't have time to play and you need wait another X days.

 

Can always buy the items on the marketplace? >_>

 

The problem for me is that if I log onto the game and none of the options are what I want to do I'll log off, if this happens enough the addiction will be broken and I will stop logging on.  There are other games out there, it's just a matter of boredom making players look for them.

 

Also something else to keep in mind, they say 20 nodes but you can't have all 20 nodes be level 30 content because this is supposed to be a tiered progression system.  Some have to be low level nodes for starting players, so that could half the number of nodes veteran players want to play.  20 just became 10.

 

The main problem is they don't want to tell us exactly how they want it to work, that's the problem here.

The second biggest problem is they KNOW we won't like this, they said it on the stream that they know u17 will usher in a ragefest of unhappy veteran players.  If they know we won't like it don't do it, updates are supposed to make the game better and not worse.

 

Here are some questions I would like answered (that won't be)

Can I play any boss anytime I want to get warframe parts or will I have to wait till the boss I want is on rotation (this will hurt everyone because the next frame will probably require basic frame parts, remember chroma?).

Can I play different mission types anytime I want, what if I don't like interception archwing?  What If I want to do a high level defence?

Can I play any void mission anytime I want?  I'm getting the feeling I won't be able to which will make getting prime items almost impossible given the rng that is already in effect.

Can I farm the exact rare materials I need anytime I want? 

Will dark sectors still be in the game, if not this will be a direct nerf to farming credits.

How many nodes will be for new players and how many will be for capped players?

 

Yes Warframe needs to be reworked for new players to get a better experience, making the veterans playtime worse to that end is not the best way to do that.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Spindle99

[Evanescent]

certain map againsSo what they want is for us to go through all the trouble of multiple mission like quests for one thing or resource cool which is fine for new players as they have that feeling of wow amazement and stuff. But for us vets that have it all what if we just want to do a casual mission in a t a certain enemy in a certain tile set we want we can't do that anymore as since its not guaranteed that certain game mode or certain faction will be in the rotation mission of what not.  1)

DE giving to little details and just very general statements such as reducing the star chart and removing some players freedom to chose causes alarm to us cause why did we even choose to play this game and stay this long cause we have the freedom to choose which load out which mission and which things we want to kill or have you forgotten that? DE giving vague details will of course alarm us cause based on past experience we know that some minor changes or stealth fixes that they did hindered or actually decreased the enjoyment of their player base only for them to realize too late how much rage and dissent it received from community feedback but with this issue I think its beyond it as this is NOT A MINOR CHANGE this is a make or break which will further shape warframe whether it be good or bad once they implement it and the effects are seen it can either draw more people or make a lot of people that have wanted their freedom to choose which mission they wanted to do leave the game for good and upon checking the mega thread about this 2)I see so many people saying they will quit the game cause of this. Do you think that's a good SIGN just to radically change an existing star chart that is functional and has no real major problems just to test something out but the expense of &!$$ing off/enraging a lot of the player base that has already gotten used to having FREEDOM OF CHOICE and exploration with the current system? What about us player that like to power level alot of stuff cause there is no more guaranteed draco we lose the drive to actually GIVE MONEY TO DE cause I purchase thousands of plat worth of forma cause during my free days I maximize my weapons (I have 200+ of them) and just power level half day if there is no guaranteed intercept with medium to high level that has a good spawn rate similar to draco, cereberus or stephano what then? What if I wanted to relevel 20 weapons in a span of a few hours that choice will be taken away from us with the new systems therefore LESS SALES FOR DE even LESS PROFIT.

 

1) You just invalidated all your concerns with this line. They give so little information, and you assume so much that you feel justified to create an  entire thread to rage, furthermore on something still a concept not even in mock up? You must have so much justification.

 

2)You know something, on the day DE introduced mod system the forums exploded. I see a lot of people say this everytime something changes/ something new comes along. And I know, and DE knows as well by now, these knee-jerk rections caused by half heard statements and half read posts should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

I request you, please go back and see the last stream, where they talk about this. Replay that part over and over until you are sure of what they said, then if you still feel that you do not agree, you are of course in the right to voice your opinion about the game because you feel worried about something you are so passionate for.

I don't have to be that conscious I just want to get my message across I'm here to discuss an issue not my writing style.

And how do you propose to set about doing that when your post is illegible? a couple of punches on the space bar and enter key shouldn't take that much effort surely. If you spit out gobs of text it's nigh impossible for us players to read, so how can DE? 

 

 

 

Also you should read Taiyou no Ie. It's so warm and fuzzy it makes my heart melt! :3

Edited May 9, 2015 by Evanescent

[Fionntan]

Everything is now Mesa. Every weapon, every frame, ever resource, every mod, every prime, every scan, every Synthesis target, every tileset, every enemy.

EVERYTHING is now Mesa.

 

Fixed ~ 

[Meneliki]

TBH I didn't like the sounds of it either, but I think we should reserve judgement until we actually see it. 

 

Theeeennn there's the new Conclave mode which I WAS looking forward to because I'm put off by Copter the Cephalon...  does anyone out there actually like Kill Confirmed?

Edited May 9, 2015 by Meneliki

[ThePresident777]

4 factions x 18 missions x 8 level ranges = 576 nodes, that doesn't include tilesets, resources, or Sentients, but it does over count certain faction limited missions and bosses.

 

So how are 20 random nodes supposed to capture this potential amount of choice?  They can't.  A node filter that lets players creat their own constelation captures all these choices and allows for some artistry.

 

DE's emphasis in Rngesus Star RNGesus Chart RNGeses 2.RNGesis.0.Rnangeesis.9000 is in randomizing the missions, randomizing game play, like Nightmare Mode.  It's a disfunctional idea, like randomizing Nightmare Mode, like randomizing which game launches when the Warframe icon is clicked, or randomizing plat purchases.  Want to play Warframe today?  Sorry, today is not your lucky day, moving on.  Want to buy plat?  Sorry, we have kitty liter instead.  Moving on.

 

What happens to unreliably things?  They get cast aside, like Nightmare Mode. 

 

The mission creation part is an afterthought.  So, it comes across as if DE is commited to trashing Warframe by update 17 then maybe figuring something out down the road, a year later as these things tend to go.  No doubt that DE is having it's trolling fun with us, but not by much.  The trolling is just a veneer.

Edited May 9, 2015 by ThePresident777

[Spindle99]

TBH I didn't like the sounds of it either, but I think we should reserve judgement until we actually see it. 

 

Theeeennn there's the new Conclave mode which I WAS looking forward to because I'm put off by Copter the Cephalon...  does anyone out there actually like Kill Confirmed?

 

Is this a good idea though?

 

Do you only fight a fire when you're on fire in bed?  Or do you do everything you can to make sure the fire never happens.

 

Let's not wait and see if it's as bad as we think and something the developers are assuming we will hate, and instead lets ask the devs exactly what it is so they can rethink it based on player feedback?

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

1) You just invalidated all your concerns with this line. They give so little information, and you assume so much that you feel justified to create an  entire thread to rage, furthermore on something still a concept not even in mock up? You must have so much justification.

 

2)You know something, on the day DE introduced mod system the forums exploded. I see a lot of people say this everytime something changes/ something new comes along. And I know, and DE knows as well by now, these knee-jerk rections caused by half heard statements and half read posts should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

I request you, please go back and see the last stream, where they talk about this. Replay that part over and over until you are sure of what they said, then if you still feel that you do not agree, you are of course in the right to voice your opinion about the game because you feel worried about something you are so passionate for.

And how do you propose to set about doing that when your post is illegible? a couple of punches on the space bar and enter key shouldn't take that much effort surely. If you spit out gobs of text it's nigh impossible for us players to read, so how can DE? 

 

 

 

Also you should read Taiyou no Ie. It's so warm and fuzzy it makes my heart melt! :3

 

Okay you have valid points I'll see this new condensed star chart and if I'm wrong about it then good but if I'm right I hate to be here when everybody else crashes cool I'll check it out in the mean time I'm gonna watch some tv series or something and hope that somehow DE is not gonna make a wrong move with this one. 

[Yastin]

Im gonna like it if it will be like syndicate missions: everyday a new way to get what you want (rep in their case).

This will prevent repetitivnes from the start, or at least it is meant to do so.

 

See "Warface" for how wrong you could possibly be. You have twenty missions per day, and that means you repeat the same few you want -all day-. Repetitiveness is guaranteed, if not encouraged.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Is this a good idea though?

 

Do you only fight a fire when you're on fire in bed?  Or do you do everything you can to make sure the fire never happens.

 

Let's not wait and see if it's as bad as we think and something the developers are assuming we will hate, and instead lets ask the devs exactly what it is so they can rethink it based on player feedback?

Agreed.

[Alphafox]

See "Warface" for how wrong you could possibly be. You have twenty missions per day, and that means you repeat the same few you want -all day-. Repetitiveness is guaranteed, if not encouraged.

Warface is a game with a decent PvP, not like Warframe. 

[VoidNomade]

We put some RNG in your RNG because increasing the RNG in your RNG RNGs the RNG and we think that it will be better

 

because everyone likes RNG

 

year of quality