Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]

[Evanescent]

i can see why you want this separate but these questions are already in the megathread and more than likely is were DE will pull the questions out of. you could have just as easily stated this in the megathread to keep the question seen lol.

The Megathread is a steaming pile of hate; the amount of feedback+questions : blind hate is horrible.

I wanted to kee the questions separate so DE could answer directly here for the community to see easily, as well as voice their questions or concerns without fear of being buried with garbage.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Evanescent

[Ishki88]

16.5 is u17 is a good ways away i wanna say mid june at the earliest possible.

A month and some change for such a big reinvention :/  IMO that's not really helping DE's case.  We'll find out soon enough.

[Xaturas]

honestly, it didn't seem like you enjoy the game much at all. I don't see why they should cater to a player that claims to only like 2 missions.

I enjoy all the missions, some more than others. With 20 nodes, I'm sure I won't be disappointed.

Who are you to tell others how they should or should not play the game?

Some people like only pvp, some ppl like only trading, some ppl like only kubrow creating, some ppl like only one type of gameplay, some ppl like this or that.

You cannot tell me or anyone else how we should play the game. 

For example I don't play any star chart missions, unless I have to (resources or other reason). I have all of the 256 or whatever the number is unlocked, so I could achieve MR xp, however I do not play them.

All my gaming is reduced to trading or void farming for credits or resources. That was my WF and I liked it.

Other people had they way of playing it. Then here comes DE with Steve and they show our throats *his way of playing* aka *let put RNG everywhere*.

Well basically I'm in position of steve as I have everything I could get in this game with 65k plat laying around for buying anything I want whenever I want. But still this idea of reducing the chart is dumb, if its random.

 

There was one post somewhere long ago from some guy that made it how it should be. You have few tick it options that you could select or leave for random rng result such as, Choose planet, choose lvl, choose mission type.

If it worked like that then sure we could survive trough it as it would be better than current star chart. But what they bring will be alert style as they themselve said in dev stream *PAY TO SLEEP* style. So you either wait forever for your node to show up if it will, or you craft some funky keys that will more than likely take some huge tool on your resources or take some huge amount of time to make. (unless they will be like 1m foundry time and minimal resource cost).

 

Like it or not WF is going into a cliff and it just might avoid the big falldown. I already started playing other games (came back to skyrim), and this change is just bad real bad.

 

Whole year of quality is year of bad decisions. That mostly will hit new players as well as some advanced players.

Void trader items reduction. Frost/latron/reaper removal that prevents new players getting them which is just bad. Reduction of void keys in Syndicate to the point its waste of rep. Reduction of rep gain for the favor of some arcade lets find orbs game with a *random* chance for the same amount of rep you would get previously. New weapons that require weapons to make that require other weapons to make -_-. ETC ETC ETC

 

Basically whole year all I see is DE either increasing the grind and making everything they can to make the game more time consuming as well as time sensitive. I spend to much time with korean style mmorpg games to know that like it or not some chicken soup was spread over DE management or at least changed their general direction from the previous course.

[[DE]Rebecca]

I just want to reiterate this and add a supplemental remark afterwards: 
 

In a totally understandable course of action, the remarks and thoughts on the star chart discussions are coming in.

 

Some things worth mentioning - the discussions on air are real-time and candid, the planning is still happening, and the finality exists only in philosophy that 'we want to solve the filler nodes, increase immersion, and appeal to intrinsic/extrinsic goals'.

 

To speak to that philosophy with reference from Steve's notes:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CD3rp_yWEAELtfq.jpg:large

 

And the source of it all:
https://youtu.be/j7QVemHYKn4?t=57m40s

 

If it's not obvious from that time stamp - if the only way to achieve this philosophy is to eliminate the freedom of choice we currently have, some of us here take issue with that - which is why we continue to discuss.

 

This is a whiteboard - this is everyone talking, thinking, communicating, writing, erasing, repeat -  and this what makes working together at DE so rewarding. In this Devstream we had this conversation openly with each other and with you all, not because we wanted to show you the stone chiseled tablet of what is coming, but because we wanted to discuss openly what we've been discussing off-camera. Sharing what we've been struggling with, what we've wanted to achieve. Could it have been more polished? Probably - but we're not ready to polish what we're still actively figuring out.  

What's been invaluable about the surrounding discussion is where your reactions focus on what you'd like to see and what you'd hate to lose - this mirrors our conversations. These discussions are strongest when the ad-hominem is left out, though. So please keep that in mind. 

Next Devstream will pick up where we left off, and we're working on figuring out a Dev Workshop-style post on what we want to do with the Star Chart. Warframe has always changed and evolved, and as this chapter starts off with bang as the goals are candidly discussed. The ignition of dramatic energy surely reflects on how much everyone cares about this, but this chapter is just beginning. Onward to Dev Workshops, discussions, and more. 

[Auramaru]

I think the variety in reactions is justified merely because the words used by DE were incredibly vague.

I'm incredibly concerned simply because I, ME, PERSONALLY, hate to play Rescue, exterminate, and spy...

I heavily prefer to play defense and survival, so if DE were to suddenly say: "F*ck you, we're taking away your freedom of choice." I'd be really peeved. I'm not sure that there would be a single, active, hardcore-grineer that would be okay with that change...

However, I don't know if that is how they plan to make changes, all I know is that they will be cutting down player choice and variety.

***If I am still able to farm the materials I want, on a mission type that I want, then I am okay with the enemy type shifting each day or so.***

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I just want to reiterate this and add a supplemental remark afterwards:

This is a whiteboard - this is everyone talking, thinking, communicating, writing, erasing, repeat - and this what makes working together at DE so rewarding. In this Devstream we had this conversation openly with each other and with you all, not because we wanted to show you the stone chiseled tablet of what is coming, but because we wanted to discuss openly what we've been discussing off-camera. Sharing what we've been struggling with, what we've wanted to achieve. Could it have been more polished? Probably - but we're not ready to polish what we're still actively figuring out.

What's been invaluable about the surrounding discussion is where your reactions focus on what you'd like to see and what you'd hate to lose - this mirrors our conversations. These discussions are strongest when the ad-hominem is left out, though. So please keep that in mind.

Next Devstream will pick up where we left off, and we're working on figuring out a Dev Workshop-style post on what we want to do with the Star Chart. Warframe has always changed and evolved, and as this chapter starts off with bang as the goals are candidly discussed. The ignition of dramatic energy surely reflects on how much everyone cares about this, but this chapter is just beginning. Onward to Dev Workshops, discussions, and more.

You should make this a general topic post. Edited May 10, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Ishki88]

I just want to reiterate this and add a supplemental remark afterwards: 

 

 

This is a whiteboard - this is everyone talking, thinking, communicating, writing, erasing, repeat -  and this what makes working together at DE so rewarding. In this Devstream we had this conversation openly with each other and with you all, not because we wanted to show you the stone chiseled tablet of what is coming, but because we wanted to discuss openly what we've been discussing off-camera. Sharing what we've been struggling with, what we've wanted to achieve. Could it have been more polished? Probably - but we're not ready to polish what we're still actively figuring out.  

What's been invaluable about the surrounding discussion is where your reactions focus on what you'd like to see and what you'd hate to lose - this mirrors our conversations. These discussions are strongest when the ad-hominem is left out, though. So please keep that in mind. 

Next Devstream will pick up where we left off, and we're working on figuring out a Dev Workshop-style post on what we want to do with the Star Chart. Warframe has always changed and evolved, and as this chapter starts off with bang as the goals are candidly discussed. The ignition of dramatic energy surely reflects on how much everyone cares about this, but this chapter is just beginning. Onward to Dev Workshops, discussions, and more. 

 

With all due respect BasedGod Rebecca, not much of anything was discussed last Dev Stream.  There was a lot of dodging and trolling, which isn't new to any of us.  The brief discussion from the Dev Stream caused the communities doubts because of the lack of information...or rather like you said.."communicating, talking and thinking."  One can not "toy" with someone then the next day say "you guys are overreacting."

 

If more was explained, this uproar probably wouldn't of happened.  But it's already set in stone, maybe the next time your fellow member's could act more disciplined and not easily distracted by Twitch users?

 

Edit:  I could see someone reading this as a shot at Steve.  Take it however you want but if you read the 3 "relays" of this game, then you'll understand my point.

 

All in all I'm open arms to anything.  But from what I saw the idea of a "revised star chart" did not blossom into much last DS.  So like you said I do HOPE you guys dig deeper next stream.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Ishki88

[.Stormtopia.]

I just want to reiterate this and add a supplemental remark afterwards: 

 

 

This is a whiteboard - this is everyone talking, thinking, communicating, writing, erasing, repeat -  and this what makes working together at DE so rewarding. In this Devstream we had this conversation openly with each other and with you all, not because we wanted to show you the stone chiseled tablet of what is coming, but because we wanted to discuss openly what we've been discussing off-camera. Sharing what we've been struggling with, what we've wanted to achieve. Could it have been more polished? Probably - but we're not ready to polish what we're still actively figuring out.  

What's been invaluable about the surrounding discussion is where your reactions focus on what you'd like to see and what you'd hate to lose - this mirrors our conversations. These discussions are strongest when the ad-hominem is left out, though. So please keep that in mind. 

Next Devstream will pick up where we left off, and we're working on figuring out a Dev Workshop-style post on what we want to do with the Star Chart. Warframe has always changed and evolved, and as this chapter starts off with bang as the goals are candidly discussed. The ignition of dramatic energy surely reflects on how much everyone cares about this, but this chapter is just beginning. Onward to Dev Workshops, discussions, and more. 

 

Ok Lotus, you win........... i was only trying to fuse ideas. lol.

Are we going to have the opportunity to change our names freely on this update? Didn't have any ideas on the last one. :|

[(PSN)TheArrowOfGod]

I just want to reiterate this and add a supplemental remark afterwards: 

 

 

This is a whiteboard - this is everyone talking, thinking, communicating, writing, erasing, repeat -  and this what makes working together at DE so rewarding. In this Devstream we had this conversation openly with each other and with you all, not because we wanted to show you the stone chiseled tablet of what is coming, but because we wanted to discuss openly what we've been discussing off-camera. Sharing what we've been struggling with, what we've wanted to achieve. Could it have been more polished? Probably - but we're not ready to polish what we're still actively figuring out.  

What's been invaluable about the surrounding discussion is where your reactions focus on what you'd like to see and what you'd hate to lose - this mirrors our conversations. These discussions are strongest when the ad-hominem is left out, though. So please keep that in mind. 

Next Devstream will pick up where we left off, and we're working on figuring out a Dev Workshop-style post on what we want to do with the Star Chart. Warframe has always changed and evolved, and as this chapter starts off with bang as the goals are candidly discussed. The ignition of dramatic energy surely reflects on how much everyone cares about this, but this chapter is just beginning. Onward to Dev Workshops, discussions, and more. 

Ok...but lets say that it's very hated like the chroma helm debacle. Will you stick with it or will you revert back?

[(PSN)Sinladar]

This has probably already been said but I won't mind the change so much if we get 1 of each mission type for each faction. Also would this change lower the number of dark sectors?

Edited May 10, 2015 by (PS4)Sinladar

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Interesting..

[TheErebus.]

Interesting..

Also go read on the megathread, Rebecca posted there that'll shed some light on the whole thing

[Ishki88]

Another thing, I'm going to be bold and say this change should be considered another 2.0.  If you guys really feel like you can get this done for U17 then more power to you.  But a change like this is VERY dramatic. It's literally changing how people play Warframe.  It's the core of the game itself.  

 

I think you guys should grab some beer, Grineer weed and play Super Mario World and Metroid :^)

 

 

But to serious.  I think when you guys believe it's ready for launch (Starmap 3.0), how about previewing and playing it on Prime Time.  Afterwards open a poll and work from there?  Instead of just giving it to us...

 

Edit:  Also a lot of people don't mind the star map change.  That isn't our issue.

 

You know our issue.

 

RNG. 

Edited May 10, 2015 by Ishki88

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Also go read on the megathread, Rebecca posted there that'll shed some light on the whole thing

 

I did read it and that is the reason why I created this thread in the first place due to overwhelming negative response of people about the proposed changes but yep I will keep on monitoring it.

[ArcariusAero]

You know our issue.

 

RNG. 

That's exactly what starchart "2.0" would have given more of, from what we had heard at first.

Needing to wait days on end just to do specific mission types, bosses, etc.

[Spindle99]

WE GOT AN UPDATE FROM STEVE:

 

 

Honestly, I just wish they would treat it as a gradual thing to test the waters or meet halfway.  A lot of the changes about the star chart sounded great but 20 nodes, more rng and removing choice did not.

 

Why not have the 20 node system for new players and once you get to 30 more unlock for more endgame choice?

 

Too much choice is no choice at all, too little choice is no choice at all.  If a player logs in and can't do what they want they will log off again.  If that happens too much they won't keep trying.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Spindle99

[-InV-Skitz0]

My first question after watching the livestream is what will happen to Dark Sector nodes if there is only 20 in the star chart to begin with,

 

Obviously if the new system will resemble anything to the past then a rail would still be deployed unlocking a node that anyone could play and the winner can influence over. And naturally the devs will want to keep majority control on the player experience of the 20 nodes, so if indeed the same system is used where a owner controls a node and influences the player experience of that node then it would be reduced to something like  3 nodes instead of the 26 we have today.

 

This is purely theory crafting here, and I have no idea of the plans of future DS content. But as a friend of mine pointed out "Could you imagine only 3 DS nodes up for grab, Imagine how bloody the battles would be".

Edited May 10, 2015 by --Skitz0--

[TheStag]

Everything is fine with me as long as we still have Venera, Io, and Xini. Back in update 7 and 8 those were the places to be.

[TheErebus.]

I did read it and that is the reason why I created this thread in the first place due to overwhelming negative response of people about the proposed changes but yep I will keep on monitoring it.

I think you're referring to the other post she made.

 

 

She made a new one:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/454288-proposed-starchart-changes-megathread/?p=5067097

[Ishki88]

Now that I really thinkg about it man.........if SC 3.0 would give me the feel of

 

1. Logging in

2. Lotus/Ordis gives me a list of task for the day (Like alerts but with lore or actual REASON besides "Grineer are doing stuff again, just kill em")

3. I go out and complete task

4. Receive reward

5. Oil my guns

6. Look for more daily objectives

 

I would feel alot better than

 

1. Logging in

2. Ordis says something but I'm ignoring him

3. Look at what needs to be leveled 

4. Max it

5. Quit

 

Right now the game has little immersion, and alerts are still bad

 

I would REALLY REALLY LIKE SPECIAL ALERTS LIKE "MELEE ONLY" "NAPALMERS ONLY" "MANICS ONLY"  "SKANAS ONLY" "VALKYR ONLY"  "SARYN ONLY"   "TEAM LOKI (ONLY LOKIS)"  "A Group of Nullifiers are blah blah at blah blah Tenno stop them" 

 

Turn "events" into smaller "weekly" and "daily" events.

 

Things like that would be fun and different.  If you want to force a play style atleast force THAT.  

 

Freestyle comment sorry for weak structuring.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Ishki88

[Evanescent]

I just want to reiterate this and add a supplemental remark afterwards: 

 

 

This is a whiteboard - this is everyone talking, thinking, communicating, writing, erasing, repeat -  and this what makes working together at DE so rewarding. In this Devstream we had this conversation openly with each other and with you all, not because we wanted to show you the stone chiseled tablet of what is coming, but because we wanted to discuss openly what we've been discussing off-camera. Sharing what we've been struggling with, what we've wanted to achieve. Could it have been more polished? Probably - but we're not ready to polish what we're still actively figuring out.  

What's been invaluable about the surrounding discussion is where your reactions focus on what you'd like to see and what you'd hate to lose - this mirrors our conversations. These discussions are strongest when the ad-hominem is left out, though. So please keep that in mind. 

Next Devstream will pick up where we left off, and we're working on figuring out a Dev Workshop-style post on what we want to do with the Star Chart. Warframe has always changed and evolved, and as this chapter starts off with bang as the goals are candidly discussed. The ignition of dramatic energy surely reflects on how much everyone cares about this, but this chapter is just beginning. Onward to Dev Workshops, discussions, and more. 

 

I just want to reiterate this and add a supplemental remark afterwards: 

 

 

This is a whiteboard - this is everyone talking, thinking, communicating, writing, erasing, repeat -  and this what makes working together at DE so rewarding. In this Devstream we had this conversation openly with each other and with you all, not because we wanted to show you the stone chiseled tablet of what is coming, but because we wanted to discuss openly what we've been discussing off-camera. Sharing what we've been struggling with, what we've wanted to achieve. Could it have been more polished? Probably - but we're not ready to polish what we're still actively figuring out.  

What's been invaluable about the surrounding discussion is where your reactions focus on what you'd like to see and what you'd hate to lose - this mirrors our conversations. These discussions are strongest when the ad-hominem is left out, though. So please keep that in mind. 

Next Devstream will pick up where we left off, and we're working on figuring out a Dev Workshop-style post on what we want to do with the Star Chart. Warframe has always changed and evolved, and as this chapter starts off with bang as the goals are candidly discussed. The ignition of dramatic energy surely reflects on how much everyone cares about this, but this chapter is just beginning. Onward to Dev Workshops, discussions, and more. 

Greatly reassured and recommend Pinning in GD.

 

Looking forward to changes!

A request:

 

Please roll it out slowly, previewing it stage by stage.

Now that I really thinkg about it man.........if SC 3.0 would give me the feel of

 

1. Logging in

2. Lotus/Ordis gives me a list of task for the day (Like alerts but with lore or actual REASON besides "Grineer are doing stuff again, just kill em")

3. I go out and complete task

4. Receive reward

5. Oil my guns

6. Look for more daily objectives

 

I would feel alot better than

 

1. Logging in

2. Ordis says something but I'm ignoring him

3. Look at what needs to be leveled 

4. Max it

5. Quit

 

Right now the game has little immersion, and alerts are still bad

 

I would REALLY REALLY LIKE SPECIAL ALERTS LIKE "MELEE ONLY" "NAPALMERS ONLY" "MANICS ONLY"  "SKANAS ONLY" "VALKYR ONLY"

 

"SARYN ONLY"   "TEAM LOKI (ONLY LOKIS)"

 

Things like that would be fun and different.  If you want to force a play style atleast force THAT.  

 

Freestyle comment sorry for weak structuring.

+1 Good sir!

[MortalSage]

I get that a lot of people are scared that limiting nodes might limit choice, but I'm gonna wait to pass judgement until we get our hands on the new system. That being said, what do you personally think is the biggest drawback of the starchart? What fix would you propose?

 

I think that too many nodes is a huge matchmaking mess,and limiting nodes could work if drops types correspond to mission types. Maybe BP's have a better chance to drop in survival or or spy missions have caches that contain rare resources. This is how it works with bosses and warframe parts so I dont think It'd be a stretch for weapon BP and rare resources

Edited May 10, 2015 by MortalSage

[Cr4p]

If it's all "hopes and dreams", why say its going to be in U17?

 

Maybe get the design right first and worry about when it will be out later. I'd much rather you guys delayed the Starchart changes as much as necessary to make sure you get it right, or at least as close to right as possible without mass testing, than to rush it in order to meet an arbitrary self-imposed deadline and potentially ruin the game for a lot of people.

 

Honestly, if you are all so worried about most of the star chart places being pointless/empty. You could just take the overly diluted drop tables and spread them out evenly over every place or maybe one or two places each on the star chart. That would give meaning to all of the places (at least until you got what you want from them, but honestly that's going to be the case for anything in a game where the main goals are farming. You farm a place until you get what you want/need, then you move on to the next), help with drop table dilution AND allow players to work towards the specific things they want more effectively!

Edited May 10, 2015 by Cr4p

[Spindle99]

I have a question from people that have played longer than me, has there every been anything talked about on the dev stream like this that was never actually added?

 

If the dev streams have a history of talking about stuff and never actually following through then maybe it was just shooting the breeze but it seemed pretty set in stone to me.

[Zagrax]

 

HATE THE IDEA OF STARCHART 2.0? WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO SEE?

 

3.0*

Edited May 10, 2015 by Zagrax