Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]

[DLVargas]

Now, there is a large difference between the idea of "ALL player choice being removed" and "SOME player choice being removed," but I remain...wary. The mention of craftable missions might be cool if they're customizable (i.e., I want to fight THIS faction on THIS tileset at THIS level), but other F2P games have done this with horrible execution.

Guys, DE, I'm BEGGING you: please give us more information somehow before this is fully implemented. You're seeing the initial outcry and concern. Explain how this will work to us, fully, and then hear us out.

[NN13]

Ok,so here is my suggestion. I really hope this does not go unnoticed(though I will probably send a link to DERebecca).

 

This is based on the types of missions we have as of now.

 

We have the following missions as of now -

Assassination , Capture , Crossfire , Deception , Defense , Excavation , Exterminate , Hijack , Interception , Mobile Defense , Rescue , Sabotage , Spy , Survival. A total of 14 missions.

 

Now,if we try to have one node on each planet for each type of mission,we will end up with around 190 nodes(196 minus a few non-boss nodes on a few planets).

 

Idea 1 (Planet based idea) -

(This idea is based on the assumption that each planet will eventually have a different tileset when Warframe is released.)

 

-Each different planet should have one node of the missions which are popular(and also,if it fits in that tillset,like no survivals on open tilesets).

 

-We can have a poll to see the top 5 or 6 game modes that the community loves.

AFAIK, Defense ,  Exterminate , Interception , Rescue , Spy and Survival/Excavation(Since it's either one of the 2) are the most popular game modes. So, total of 84 nodes here.

 

-Now,add 12 Boss nodes(excluding Lephantis, Mutalist Alad V and Phorid since they either need keys or are timed invasions).

 

-Then, add 10 more nodes scattered over 14 planets that will have the less popular missions like deception,capture and sabotage.

 

- 5 Archwing nodes and 9 Dark Sector nodes.

 

That's a total of 120 nodes.

 

Idea 2 (Tileset based idea) -

(This idea is based on the assumption that a few planets will have same tilesets). Also,this idea seems better,IMO.

 

So, to further reduce the number of nodes,this approach can be taken. We have a total of 10 tilesets(including to be released underwater tileset).

 

-Each different tileset should have one node of the missions which are popular(and also,if it fits in that tillset,like no survivals on open tilesets).

 

-We can have a poll to see the top 5 or 6 game modes that the community loves.

AFAIK, Defense ,  Exterminate , Interception , Rescue , Spy and Survival/Excavation(Since it's either one of the 2) are the most popular game modes. So, total of 60 nodes here.

 

-Now,add 12 Boss nodes(excluding Lephantis, Mutalist Alad V and Phorid since they either need keys or are timed invasions).

 

-Then, add 10 more nodes scattered over 14 planets that will have the less popular missions like deception,capture and sabotage.

 

-5 Archwing nodes and 8 Dark Sector nodes.

 

That's 95 nodes.

 

Alternate Idea for Dark Sector Nodes -

 

To further reduce the amount of nodes,incorporate Dark sector into normal nodes,like Nightmare mode.

How does that work?

Well,we have a choice -

1. Play regular mission

2. Play Dark Sector

 

Now,when we select "Play Dark Sector", we will been shown a new cut-scene of our Liset entering in a Solar rail and then being transported/teleported to the dark sector mission. Much like the cut-scene of how Normandy is teleported by the Mass-Relays in Mass Effect.

 

That would reduce the number of nodes to -

111 nodes in the first case.

87 nodes in the second case.

 

 

Conclusion -

 

I am not sure how 20 nodes can be a thing. That effectively means 1 normal mission node per planet. 3 Archwing node and 3 Dark Sector node. That's it?!

I would request DE to share more on what they are planning. The community might come up with better ideas. After all, this game is in BETA,right?

 

If that is the case,Warframe might become way more boring. Because if timed-mission is introduced,that would mean I can not do a type of mission I want to do in a certain tileset.

 

Reducing redundant nodes is a good thing,but limiting player choices to this extent will be very bad for Warframe.

 

Even after all this wall of text,if DE is hell-bent on introducing timed missions,please reduce the RNG grind. Make sure that things are obtainable within a sane timeframe. Mainly because you are effectively introducing an extra layer of timewall in front of the already bad RNG grindwall.

 

Edited May 9, 2015 by NN13

[StarScribe]

Somehow I get a feeling that once this is out it is going to be a complete disaster, this is what I "guess" will happen... but if they are going to take away so much control and choice from us and increase the grind even more then this might just be that turning point at which I will hastily abandon warframe & DE in general.

 

I could never recommend this game to anyone ever again if this happened.

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

"Objectively"

 

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/692/19789999.jpg

 

Used it once. If you're going to let someone else come up with your "clever" responses, you might want to try to pick the right one.

It is objectively inferior, because, at best, this craftable mission thing like creating jobs in Payday, can only provide functionality as good as a level select but with some pointless inconvenience tacked on. Even if it's absolutely perfect for creating missions, it will have some stupid BS stapled to the side that doesn't need to be there.

[DiabolusUrsus]

I find it funny that so many people are citing a lack of available teammates as a reason why nodes shouldn't exist when the general consensus here on the forums here is that solo is a perfectly viable mode of play already. If solo is fine, then a lack of available teammates should also be fine. The typical response is "find a clan, get a squad, do what you want," so I would assume the same applies to unlocking new nodes.

 

I'm not entirely against the idea of trimming down the size of the star-chart in terms of overall node count, but I am definitely against the removal of player choice when it comes to game-type and other key factors. I also want to see the graphical scale of the map improved substantially; I want the game world to feel as massive as it looks from your Liset cockpit. 

 

- Game-type needs to remain within player control. If DE wants us to play different game modes, they should make the various game modes interesting, or at least have a legitimate draw to them. 

 

- The current navigation UI needs to be revised. It's drab to look at, and the circular arrangement of nodes offers absolutely zero sense of linear progression. I want to see the planets/moons/etc. arranged spatially, and differentiated at least slightly in terms of scale. By all means, make the click-boxes the same size, but I'd at least like for Jupiter to be bigger than Earth, and Pluto to look a bit smaller. I'd also suggest scaling node count to the relative size of the celestial body. 

 

- Invasions are going to be effectively destroyed by this new model, and translate from a loosely interpreted battle over territory to an inconvenient time-lock of a given node. Unless they're removed completely, in which case I'm declaring the 'year of quality' officially dead in my eyes, as DE will have scrapped an aspect of gameplay ripe for expansion for the sake of convenience.

 

- Regardless of personal views on the matter, the fact remains that unlocking the star-chart serves as a loose sense of progression for some players. In a game that is sorely lacking a sense of progression, removing part of what little there is seems like a very poorly conceived idea. 

 

- Dark Sectors. How do they play into this?

 

This boils down to DE dodging the actual root of the problem: That Warframe is a loot-based game, and all of the good loot is concentrated in a few niche areas. Now that they've finally started talking about spreading the loot out evenly and thereby reducing drop pool dilution, they're jumping on the opportunity to reduce the area over which they need to spread their loot. How surprising. 

 

If DE wanted to take the opportunity to actually improve their game, they could

a) establish an actual progression system,

b) use that progression system to scale existing content to player level,

c) create a link between progression and available loot, and

d) work harder on creating an actual end-game to hold the attention of their veteran players even in the absence of a weekly weapons-addiction fix.

 

... More wishful thinking on my part. 

[ArcariusAero]

I want a node for each mission type, thats all. I'm not a fan of the changes proposed so far, but its not like my opinion will stop DE. I'm not that special ;P

This would probably be best. One node for each game-mode -> One of these on each planet -> Also, difficulty is adjustable (with more rewards for higher difficulty), except for with the bosses.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

As the topic stated I am now worried on the drastic change DE will do to the starchart as I don't want to play a arcade random mission selector type of game.

 

I was drawn to Warframe because of the freedom of choice to gave players if DE is removing that no matter how much new half baked content they will release it won't make up for the feeling of restriction it will impart to veteran and new players. Veterans, founders and majority of the warframe's community has mixed feelings about the star chart and now your making such an EXTREME change that will add more RNG due to removal of player choice and specific mission types only appearing on certain instances. So more time walls and RNG walls for the newer players and those that need to farm something to build a specific gear or item.

 

I honestly don't know if I can still play this game after as they keep on removing player's choice I already have everything in game restricting freedom for veterans will further make us quit and if the newer players see the trend they will also not stay for the long run if this continues.

 

Please DE make sure you know what you are getting yourselves into don't go making rash developers decisions which will result to regret later due to the rage and eventual negative effect it will have on your player base.

 

I will wait in see but if I they really remove player choice with the CONTRACTION of the star chart nothing left or explore for me to do will probably leave the game for good I love this game but I don't know if I can handle the new change anymore.

 

I don't understand why DE will further decrease the options of players as they're player base has already matured there are more in game veterans that stay rank 7+ than newer players that join as the new players that play some of them don't even stay for the long run this new change will further just enrage your veterans especially the MR 10+ players that have loyally stuck with your game through thick and thin there could have been much better solutions than cutting or removing 234 nodes from the star chart what about all the work people put in clearing those nodes?

 

You could just have showed or indicated to the newer players the planets that are locked in their star charts so that they have a sense of direction on where to go to next. As well as for the issue of dead nodes with no players its not really the problem the problem is that these nodes have nothing good to offer that's why no one is playing them the reward systems is bad for star chart missions that's why people only play select mission types. Removing the choice of which tile set or faction or mission type to play in IS NOT THE CORRECT SOLUTION for it instead why not GIVE PLAYERS INCENTIVES for playing or joining up with squads in the not so popular game modes or offer better reward systems besides in reality not all nodes need to have players playing them there are solo players that like to challenge themselves and do random high mid level missions in ceres, pluto or europa let us have that choice we don't want to be limited to either an archwing mission a defense mission or intercept just cause the rotation of the day says so.

 

What about people that like to do stealth and spy missions? or want to face a specific faction in a specific tile set because they know the tile set well and have developed strategies utilizing their environment. So please I ask again BE SURE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR GETTING YOURSELVES into with the DRASTIC changes your are planning to IMPLEMENT.

 

                                                                                                                          -A concerned warframe veteran

Edited May 9, 2015 by Letter13
Added spacing & paragraphs for readability. Courtesy of RiotX.

[WingedCrusade]

Eh? I'm a vet and I haven't seen one damn reason for me to leave yet, so keep walking pal. Honestly, the amount of Star Chart nodes we have now is ridiculous, and no players are able to find lobbies on normal missions for just such reasons. Newbies will leave now regardless because they'll think nobody is playing.

Look from different viewpoints too, buddy.

I'm rank freaking 16, and I STILL haven't cleared the chart just because I've seen no reason to. Good riddance, I say. People just jump to conclusions and judge things that they don't know a thing about. Want my advice? Wait to see what the change is, THEN you can post this thread.

Otherwise, there's no sense in just jumping ship and judging things that don't exist yet.

Edited May 9, 2015 by WingedCrusade

[LordBeeBrain]

You're welcome everyone!

 

You the real mvp

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Eh? I'm a vet and I haven't seen one damn reason for me to leave yet, so keep walking pal. Honestly, the amount of Star Chart nodes we have now is ridiculous, and no players are able to find lobbies on normal missions for just such reasons. Newbies will leave now regardless because they'll think nobody is playing.

Look from different viewpoints too, buddy.

Well I'll wait and see I sincerely do hope it's not going to become a big mistake. But you have a good point it might be good for the newer players.

Edited May 9, 2015 by HARDCORE_DAVE

[Gale47]

We'll still be able to craft missions we enjoy playing in one way or another, thus saving them for future use. 

The changes they've proposed will mean that there's always something new and at least slightly different to play, as well as that all gamemodes get featured every once in a while. It's going to be good, you'll see.

[Cr4p]

If you end up making it so we cannot play the game modes we like, when we like (and try for the drops we want/need) condensing the starchart to try and eliminate less populated nodes isn't going to be very effective if everyone just quits the game out of frustration/disgust.

[Drunkenbagel]

Don't start raging until we have data to back up what you think is going to happen. Look at the paid mods dilemma. The whole internet did exactly what you are doing now(albeit more aggressively) and didn't even wait for any feasible data to surface. 

 

I'm going to wait until they ship the update. Then I will put forth my opinion on the matter if necessary.

[(PSN)NeroRedgrave]

If this will really come and we all have no choice of what mission type we want to play, what ressources we farm, this game will have a much lower player base after 1 or 2 weeks.

 

DE, why u come up with this idea? U don't want Ghost Towns? Remove some nodes. Maybe from 300 t0 100. Make special drops on them, like bigger ressource chances and change that every day.

 

But the idea of 300 to 20 without a chance to chose my mission type and the ressources I need, is a pain.

 

If DE continue on this way, they will not only destroy the void, they will destroy the complete game.

Edited May 9, 2015 by (PS4)NeroRedgrave

[WingedCrusade]

Don't start raging until we have data to back up what you think is going to happen. Look at the paid mods dilemma. The whole internet did exactly what you are doing now(albeit more aggressively) and didn't even wait for any feasible data to surface.

I'm going to wait until they ship the update. Then I will put forth my opinion on the matter if necessary.

The difference is that it involves money, a large as hell playerbase, possibly Nexus Mods (SkyUI is supposedly becoming a paid mod), and things that SHOULD be free, becoming just the opposite of that.

Nobody wants to give money to these greedy suits, and it's justified. We've had free mods forever, you start making us pay for them, you're just getting laughed at and spit on. Steam has been handling the comments, constructive or otherwise, or just comments like - "Well, won't this make people angry?" rather poorly, by distending community priveleges for set amounts of time. I know this because my friend did just that exact comment, followed by an actual harmless suggestion.

Next thing you know, community priveleges banned for a week.

They all know just how severe the consequences are, how angry everyone is, but do they do anything? No. They just ignore the community that they run on, and continue to try pushing this so they can further steal money from people. Do you know how much the developer of the mods supposedly get from sales? 10%. I've heard they'll only get 5-10% of the actual profits, and the companies gets the rest.

I can't even bother to think about Bethesda and Valve right now.

I hate suits.

Edited May 9, 2015 by WingedCrusade

[KyleDelta]

I really with they would just combine the old with the new, Like make rotatable planets with a line-connected node selection system like we had before the ship update.

 

Something similar to this only with lines connecting the nodes, all around the surface of each world:

Edited May 9, 2015 by KyleDelta

[Drunkenbagel]

The difference is that it involves money, a large as hell playerbase, possibly Nexus Mods (SkyUI is supposedly becoming a paid mod), and things that SHOULD be free, becoming just the opposite of that.

Nobody wants to give money to these greedy suits, and it's justified. We've had free mods forever, you start making us pay for them, you're just getting laughed at and spit on. Steam has been handling the comments, constructive or otherwise, or just comments like - "Well, won't this make people angry?" rather poorly, by distending community priveleges for set amounts of time. I know this because my friend did just that exact comment, followed by an actual harmless suggestion.

Next thing you know, community priveleges banned for a week.

I agree wholeheartedly. Mods have always been, and should always be free, community created content. But let's not discuss that here. It ain't the point of the thread.

[Rekkou]

"players will leave if you remove ability mod!"

"players will leave if you nerf xxx!"

"players will leave if you remove xxx!"

 

Yeah people keep making this thread whenever big changes happens. If huge ammount of players actually leaving whenever DE implement big changes, warframe would've been dead many updates ago. But the simple fact is, the change happened but warframe still going strong.

[xozzy19x]

Yeah people keep making this thread whenever big changes happens. If huge ammount of players actually leaving whenever DE implement big changes, warframe would've been dead many updates ago. But the simple fact is, the change happened but warframe still going strong.

Its human nature, people freak out once they are trown out of their confort zone XD

I will just wait and see what the fuzz is about and then if its going down hill ill freak out lol

[willoux_]

While I do not agree it would kill the game, the vastness of the starchart is part of what I love about this game, it really feels like we're traveling to planets and doing stuff all over the planets and system. 

 

Can we really even call it a starchart anymore? It doesn't even use stars to mark mission nodes anymore (unfortunately :( ) I do like how clean the current one is, if anything.

 

So yeah, won't kill the game, but will probably still upset some people (as will anything, really.)

Edited May 9, 2015 by HawksLuckyEyes

[LABAL]

I don't know what it'll be like, but don't worry. It'll just INCREASE THE GRIND. I imagine this like that: Exterminate? Quit. Reroll. Capture? Quit. Reroll. Exterminate? Quit, damn it. Reroll again. Sabotag... Are you kidding me? Reroll. Finally, an interception. I'll just wait a bit for more players here... *30 minutes later* riiiiiiiiight...

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

While I do not agree it would kill the game, the vastness of the starchart is part of what I love about this game, it really feels like we're traveling to planets and doing stuff all over the planets and system. 

 

Can we really even call it a starchart anymore? It doesn't even use stars to mark mission nodes anymore (unfortunately :( ) I do like how clean the current one is, if anything.

 

So yeah, won't kill the game, but will probably still upset some people (as will anything, really.)

If we could just preserve the current star chart version 2.0 SIGH.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

I don't know what it'll be like, but don't worry. It'll just INCREASE THE GRIND. I imagine this like that: Exterminate? Quit. Reroll. Capture? Quit. Reroll. Exterminate? Quit, damn it. Reroll again. Sabotag... Are you kidding me? Reroll. Finally, an interception. I'll just wait a bit for more players here... *30 minutes later* riiiiiiiiight...

LOL haha and we'll finally have a way to increase our quit rates in game lol. It might be like the lottery WARFRAME: THE LOTTERY/FARM GAME.

[Auramaru]

I'm not a spacing and paragraphs person so doesn't matter to me just had to state what I needed about the proposed changes when you have so many though and ideas you want to expound upon you just have to let it all out sometimes.

Let me put it this way: if people on the Internet aren't willing to read your OP, why the hell do you think DE would? ;)

Have some food for thought.

[Zeromanicus]

It's fairly simple, if i log in and i need specific parts and there's no mission for that, i will log out again. The ability to farm what you want, when you want is for better or worse, a core part of the game atm.

 

If you want to make this work, you may have to go even further in decoupling rewards/missions. I mean, IIRC Destiny is mostly about collecting stuff their version ducats etc and spending them in stores. Doesn't really matter what mission they're doing.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Zeromanicus