The Daikyu Is Mediocre, It Needs To Be Buffed?! ( Additional Buffing Feedback )

[Noble_Cactus]

It shouldn't be buffed.  We just need super procs :3

 

Despite its lower ammo economy and lower proc chance, I find the Amprex to be a superior proc monster solely because it can affect entire crowds with Viral, Radiation, or Corrosive debuffs. Very slow, single-target debuff weapons work great in games where you're only fighting one/a few massive targets at a time (i.e., Monster Hunter, most MMOs), but Warframe doesn't really have that. Even its bosses make that niche somewhat moot, because they're centered around boring invincibility phases more than they are about massive health pools.

 

Gas/Electricity might be this weapon's only unique niche. Ignoring that the Lanka can do the same thing but quicker, at the cost of a lower proc chance and lower visibility when zoomed in. The Lanka also doesn't have the burden of sifting through physical procs, instead jumping straight to the elements you have equipped. So it ends up being more reliable than the Daikyu anyway.

 

In any case, the payoff for jumping through all of the Daikyu's hurdles - absurd charge time, no quick shot, having to wait until you fully draw the bow, having no choice but to fire the arrow at the end of that charge - isn't all that great. The Daikyu may offer an interesting playstyle, but that playstyle in its current state just isn't conducive to  successfully combating hordes of enemies.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[Tali]

It reminds me somehow of a longbow but i cant wait to try it!

[Ttariel]

The weapon is fine, we just need a use for more then 100% status. If we could trigger 2 effects with 150% for example it would be worth it.

[Otaiken]

DK is good as a back decoration.

 

And that's about it... otherwise it has worse DPS and burst (or single shot damage) than Dread/ParisP, unrealiable status due to plethora of damage types.

 

If you want a bow get Dread/ParisP. IF you want something that does a lot of damage, get Opticor. If you want toxic clouds procs get Torid and if you want something that looks pretty while you murder stuff with Marelok, then get Daikyu.

 

The looks are indeed magnificent. Can I have a DK skin for Dread pls DE?

 

 

Also, I would argue that the mechanics and the visuals of the weapon compared to the stats make the thing profoundly unfun to use. Imagine charging a massive cannon, the booming sound as the weapon charges, lightning shooting from them muzzle and just as the weapon is about to fire... it goes *plonk* and spits out a pebble... 

Edited May 15, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[Defendor]

The problem is that with the current status mechanics, having a slow status-based weapon is just not a good idea. Additionally, the slow RoF makes this weapon awful against mooks that often die from uncharged Dread/Paris P shots.

[Ronyn]

By all means, I'd love for it to perform better damage wise - I mean who doesn't like high numbers? It works well enough when invested into - and I personally feel by most standards it towers over a bunch of others,

but I mean by that logic, your cause for concern on this weapon should take a backseat to Djinn, Mutalist Quanta, Ignis, Buzlok, Dual Cestra, Supra, Dera, Spectra, Flux Rifle, Nami Skyla, Venka to name a few (if not half of what's available for clan research) 

And while Forma is quite an investment, look at those uncontrollable beasts that is the Dual Cestra - horrid accuracy, horrid ammo economy - requires two fully build Cestra's and when it comes to damage, ... just a damn shame.

There's a tier list and never has it been about how worth is the investment in building the weapon - more so how worth is it to invest into the forma. And it is by this that leaves things very open subjectively - are you going for end game numbers? Are you going for aesthetics, or feel of the bow? Do you care how it performs against hoards or are you looking to play it in a certain style [i.e. supportive roles while prioritizing the takedown of  V.I.P. targets] 

Of course the thing that renders the statement above null is if you're hard pressed on resources in which of course, go for whatever's most efficient in terms of resource consumption and payoff - there's tons of weapons that will tear this thing a new one in terms of dps, and hell even paris P/dread will never compare to the buttrip that is Boltor/Soma p, amprex, penta or the new tonkor as these are MEANT to take down incoming enemies by the hoards.

But this weapon definitely does its' job in how it has been designed in appearance, and functionality - it is very true to its' nature and it kills things pretty well to boot!

Alright. You're touching on a bunch of stuff here so let me break some of it down.

 

So when looking at weapons we have several things to factor in.

1: Aesthetic. How it looks. That is a matter of taste so no need to waste time talking about it here.

Personally-I really like what the look of the new bow.

 

2: Playstyle. That is mater of what style of play a weapon caters to and the role it is meant to to serve in combat. For example Shotguns and sniper rifles aren't the same kind of weapon nor are they meant to be. So they are judged on some very different criteria. However even noncomaprable things are required to be in relative balance to each other. There is a baseline, a median buy which ALL weapons performance must be measured. 

Personally-I really like what they are trying to accomplish with the new bow. My only concern is in it's performance.

 

3: Potential. A weapons maximum potential is defined by it's core stats and mechanics. Whether or not it reaches that potential is a matter of whether the player put's the potato and forma's into it. A weapon with the highest potential may be relatively weak in the hands of someone who never bothered to put anything into it. Just as a weapon with low potential may be relatively strong in the hands of someone who has taken it as high as it can go.

 

4: Investment. The time/cost it requires to create/acquire a weapon. A weapon blueprint on the marketplace that requires simple resources to build.

A weapon with blueprint/parts only found in the hardest missions and/or requires rare resources...and/or possibly multiple weapons crafted before it...and/or possible extra time in waiting...is far less simple to build.

In terms of reason, it is most intuitive that a weapon that is more difficult/costly/time consuming to acquire would be somehow better than one that was easier/simpler/faster to get.

 

5:  The question of what is the total investment to reach maximum potential. This is where potential and investment meet. 

For example: A weapon might be expensive to build but come with more polarities than others. So even though the cost to make the weapon may be high compared to other, the cost to get it up to it's top potential may end up lower than it is for some other weapons.

----------------------------

 

Warframe does in fact have a sort of weapon tier we are all familiar with to some degree or an other.

In some cases it is rather intuative and follows a certain clear logic.

Example: the paris mk1 is not as good as the paris which is not as good as the paris prime.

This is intuitive because effort of acquisition and maximum potential raise together.

In other cases....well we might have to go through all kinds of hoops to get a weapon that is just weaker than similar weapons.

In my opinion that is not ok. That is not good game design. We need better consistency. And it should always be relatively intuitive. 

 

Clan tech is one of the biggest offenders on this issue. Any given clan tech weapon may be a waste of time compared to something one can buy without having to research anything. Or it might be rather strong. It's nether consistent or intuitive. It feels almost random. lol

Again, I disagree with that.

 

---------------------------

 

You say the new bow "kills things pretty good". Well that is a matter of what exactly one is fighting....

but to be real with you I don't want to go down that road. My argument was that it underperforms for it's category. 

In simple terms-does it stack up to other bow and/or other charge type weapons that take approximately the same effort to acquire in viability?

I don't believe it does.

 

I like the style of the new bow and the playstyle it is going after.

I just feel it is a bit too weak right now for what it takes to get it.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Thank you. And I'm not saying it's a bad weapon, it's that that people saying how a status build works, clearly haven't realized, affecting a SINGLE target with a status affliction isn't effective.

Thank you, it's like putting a ferrari engine on a beetle. The power is there, the functionality is not.

[BlueThingy]

I don't want it to be the best at everything.  I don't want ANYTHING to be the best at everything.

 

But everything should be the best at something.  Something useful.

 

What is the Daikyu best at?

[Yastin]

I don't want it to be the best at everything.  I don't want ANYTHING to be the best at everything.

 

But everything should be the best at something.  Something useful.

 

What is the Daikyu best at?

 

It's best at disappointing nearly everyone that wanted a longbow.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Yastin

[Vargras]

Daikyu's honestly fine. I've had to put a few forma into it to get it to a good spot, but you honestly need to do that with lots of things these days (like Opticor). For those complaining about the ROF -- throw on Vile Acceleration. The damage loss is negligible, but the charge speed drastically increases, and feels a lot better to use.

 

It's not a high-tier weapon, but I don't think it's meant to be anyways. Makes for an excellent mid-tier weapon though.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

Source and/or Math please.

Yeah, I haven't heard of this being a thing.

The Hidden Red Coat youtube channel u16.5, 1:36 in...

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

I think Daikyu is fine, more over it despite it being a bow w/ bow mechanics - damage wise it's far more comparable to the opticor.

The bow itself, playstyle wise revolves around acting as a supportive VIP takedown bow - and yes, not weapons should be high/end game weapons.

Personally, I'm in love with it - I don't see any drawbacks to not being able to prematurely let off a shot because shooting a bow before you fully charge it is such a waste anyway. I mean w/ dread and paris p you'd really let it off before being able to hit 100%+ crit? Nah, not even an option for me.

It acts how it is supposed to act, the status is a nice bonus for making sure the target will fall over once hit another time round IF it survives.

You are supposed to be at long distance, thus it isn't meant for close quarters.

I'm more than sure once DE starts their rounds and takes a look at sniper and bow viability they'll address some issues or game modes that will make them shine in lovely ways - but until then ~

It really isn't bad to have something that's mechanically different is it? 

I mean people can hate on slow weapons all they want, but compared to the speedy tipedo - you'll get to really appreciate the animation work that's gone into combo's (or am I alone on this one?) 

I dunno. It's still a game of many different aspects - stat wise and design wise, but for me this leans more towards the latter.

This is my take on it. Cheers!

I respect the tone in which you made your statement, means you're not as hostile as most others on threads.

But it still stands that it's a weapon that needs improvement. This bow has the potential to be as good as the others, it's just not there yet.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

Daikyu's honestly fine. I've had to put a few forma into it to get it to a good spot, but you honestly need to do that with lots of things these days (like Opticor). For those complaining about the ROF -- throw on Vile Acceleration. The damage loss is negligible, but the charge speed drastically increases, and feels a lot better to use.

 

It's not a high-tier weapon, but I don't think it's meant to be anyways. Makes for an excellent mid-tier weapon though.

I would agree with you, but the tiers in Warframe are distorted. The Boltor P. is a M2 weapon, yet it can out damage almost every other weapon IN THE GAME! There are weapons that are 6, I repeat, 6 ranks higher that it, yet they are fodder comparison. Regardless of it's prime status, if a weapon that is 6 ranks higher than a weapon, even one that is an upgraded version of it, it should have either comparable damage capabilities or mechanics that work with it.

[Monolake]

Needs to be faster for sure. 

 

It's up on wf-builder so anyone can see the stats and DPS - it's not very good. It's not accounting for procs but still with the pitiful firerate procs dont save it. 

Opticor is about equally slow but  has much higher damage AND can be fired w/o fully charging.

[Innosin]

As a lot of people stated, Opticor basically functions the same as this bow, deals much more damage, along with explosions in exchange for innate punch through.

 

 

The Daikyu is suppose to be a status bow judging from DE's design, but by the currently damage system, it sucks at being one.

 

the IPS damage ruins any chance for a single firing weapon to be a good status weapon.

 

DE really should have just remove the IPS damage and made the bow pure element or changes it's damage type according to energy color.

 

until they do,  Daikyu is just a bow more for it's looks than anything.

 

something that should not have happen for a clan tech weapon. (yes.. i know, a lot of those weapons also sucks, but it shouldn't be that way in the first place. )

Edited May 16, 2015 by Innosin

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

Needs to be faster for sure.

It's up on wf-builder so anyone can see the stats and DPS - it's not very good. It's not accounting for procs but still with the pitiful firerate procs dont save it.

Opticor is about equally slow but has much higher damage AND can be fired w/o fully charging.

Exactly, so my question is, why can't it have the same firing mechanic. What's stopping DE from doing that. They've buffed weapons soon after a recently upgraded update. I'm looking at you Ratka Balisstica AND Synoid Gammacor Edited May 16, 2015 by (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

As a lot of people stated, Opticor basically functions the same as this bow, deals much more damage, along with explosions in exchange for innate punch through.

 

 

The Daikyu is suppose to be a status bow judging from DE's design, but by the currently damage system, it sucks at being one.

 

the IPS damage ruins any chance for a single firing weapon to be a good status weapon.

 

DE really should have just remove the IPS damage and made the bow pure element or changes it's damage type according to energy color.

 

until they do,  Daikyu is just a bow more for it's looks than anything.

 

something that should not have happen for a clan tech weapon. (yes.. i know, a lot of those weapons also sucks, but it shouldn't be that way in the first place. )

My only guess is, that the reason they even made a high status weapon, was that they were probably going to rework or at least buff the status afflictions in this game, but then that were to require that I was an optimist.

[ZzVinniezZ]

Daikyu just need to have faster fire rate then it ok, this is mid tier weapon so new player can get Paris Prime or Dread later.

[Hatzeputt]

To be honest in this game we are drowning in mediocrity! Every time something new comes out and people realize it is nothing more than mastery fodder the rose coloured glasses crowd comes out of the wood work chanting "it is ok it is just mid tier no big deal not everything can´t be top tier bla bla bla...."

 

Yeah not everything must be top tier but not everything must be mastery fodder either, that is a waste of programming effort. 

DE went into the right direction to give it some character and place but unfortunately failed to do it properly.

Lets face it status on a slow firing weapon with base IPS damage is terrible! A waste! Wrong direction taken to make it special!

The slow drawing speed, the arrow speed and no ballistic drop = good direction now pair it with high damage and even more punch through and you are set.

Even with 500-600 base damage this weapon would not be top tier but it would be able to handle all star chart enemies hell you could even double the damage and Opticor, Paris and Dread would still outperform it, which is fine but it would damn well make the thing more useful. 

 

Daikyu just need to have faster fire rate then it ok, this is mid tier weapon so new player can get Paris Prime or Dread later.

Any player that does some research will just use his/her starter plat and buy the Paris P and never bother with the Daikyu. THAT is the reality in this game, you won´t see the so called "mid tier" or rather mastery fodder weapons much in game because most people will not settle for mediocrity. So while new stuff like the Daikyu should not make older stuff obsolete it should not be released as mastery fodder either, 

Edited May 17, 2015 by Hatzeputt

[taiiat]

- okay Damage

- extremely slow RoF

- no practical Crit peformance

- above average Status

- Puncture weighted but retains all three IPS Types

all of these things together are :|

separate they are fine. but together, this is a Weapon without a Role in the game.

though that could be mended.

• making it not quite as dreadfully slow to Charge, and making it an Elemental Bow. then, it would have good purpose. great Status performance, and acceptable Damage to go with it.
• alernatively, raise the Physical Damage to 600-800-some number. and remove Impact all together.

  then, Status performance would go up somewhat, and would deal enough Damage to not need Crits to compete (just like Opticor).

  juggle the Damage though. if Charges faster than Opticor, a bit less Damage. if slower, more Damage.

Edited May 17, 2015 by taiiat

[Otaiken]

Faster charge + increased max damage = non-crit alternative to crit bows (around 2s charge and 500ish damage)

 

Faster charge + full elemental base = proc bow (charge time on par with Dread/ParisP if not slightly lower, maybe bump damage to 400 for good measure)

 

Unique gameplay mechanics?

 

It's the lack of role of the weapon that is the main issue imho. And I feel that the gap between ParisP/Opticor and lower level bows is not really big enough to warrant an entire tier just for DK to occupy.

Edited May 17, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[Hatzeputt]

Well the irony is that it is advertised as very powerful, hence the slow drawing speed and the lack of quick shot while in reality it is barely better/more püowerful than the vanilla Paris.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Hatzeputt

[Yastin]

I had an idea that would make Daikyu awesome! As well as several other weapons... Come and provide ye feedbacks here; https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/459573-idea-for-physical-status-making-status-builds-and-physical-mods-way-more-viable/ !

[Tigercloud]

Damage should be increased by 100%. Arrow should break earth when it hits the ground near enemies, causing a knockdown effect to all enemies within 8 yards. Then this weapon would be perfect. It just feels so massive and awesome, it needs the gameplay to match its majesty. Making it the heavy artillery of bows would justify its long charge time and limited hold time.

 

Even doubling the damage wouldn't make it overpowered, because as people have pointed out, crit damage from pretty much every other bow exceeds Daikyu's damage, and they are faster to fire to boot. So, double, triple the damage, make it hit like a truck even without crits, let us CC chargers and volatile runners by firing the lance of Gods into their midst, and the whole status chance/IPS thing? Well, the other stuff will compensate for that, or we could do something like this:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/459573-idea-for-physical-status-making-status-builds-and-physical-mods-way-more-viable/

Yastin and I have our different ideas on the topic :)

[Yastin]

Well, they're not really -different- opinions. Mine just goes a bit further to make other IPS weapons stand out as well, like swords that really cut, etc. We both wanna see separate Physical and Elemental.