Daikyu - Fixing It And Some Deeper Mechanical Problems

[Azamagon]

Daikyu is talked about a lot lately, which is good, because it has showed it is quite subpar compared to the other bows AND has showed that the status mechanic is not all that great, at least not for slow physical weapons. That said, let's see some of the better options to make this bow more workable, and a way to fix status!

 

FIRST - DAIKYU NEEDS BETTER STATS IN GENERAL:

* Reduce chargetime to about 2 seconds (down from ~2.75 seconds, to half the drawspeed of the other bows) (I need to doublecheck these timers so that they are correct). I will correct myself here, it is already at ~1.783 in chargespeed, so its speed should be left alone (tested myself, seems correct).

* Total damage increased to at least 500 (from 350) -OR- increase its critical chance to at least 40% for reliable critmodding. Either one needs to be done to make it compete with the other bows

* Status chance increased to 50% (from 45%), so that only 2 dualstat mods are necessary for guaranteed procs.

 

Those are just basic numberchanges to make it more competitive. But that doesn't mean it necessarily would be used more than the other bows, because generally, the speed of the Dread/Paris Prime is better than the power of the Daikyu, in this horde-slaying game. So, some more changes could be in order:

 

SECOND - SOME POTENTIAL DAIKYU MECHANIC BONUSES/CHANGES

Either of these mechanics would suffice

1) Idea by Yastin - Give the arrow a "wake" effect, dealing (half of?) its damage in a wider windlike hitcone, to make it more easily hit multiple targets at once

2a) Idea by several people (PsyComet and xX-GunHound-Xx, among others) - Make it deal ELEMENTAL damage, based on the energycolour chosen, similar to Chroma! That would make its high statuschance worthwhile (pure Gas anyone?). The arrowtip (and possibly even the entire arrow) would then need a change so it has an elemental glow, instead of a physical look

2b) Idea by myself - If it was given pure elemental damage, I'd like to give it a secondary fire (Note: Secondary fire and aiming should be seperate keys). Secondary fire would toggle it between shooting punchthrough arrows (like it does now) and explosive arrows! The explosive arrows would deal 50% less damage, in a 5 meter AoE. The toggle is visualized by the arrow's elemental glow either having a "river"-like flow (punchthrough arrow) or by having a spherical and round glow (explosive arrow)

 

While idea 2 (elemental "Chroma" bow) sounds really cool, that could be more fitting for a new bow, as I think the Daikyu is intended as a physical bow. Such a change would also require a big overhaul on it, especially visually. Going with idea 1 (larger hitbox) is probably a better idea, as it is far more likely to happen. I still want an elemental Chroma bow though! :D

 

However, the elemental bow idea is trying to go around a mechanical problem of Warframe: Status effects and the fact that they generally suck for physical weapons, in particular slow ones. Let's get to the root of the problem instead!

 

THIRD - FIXING STATUS EFFECTS!

My way of fixing status-effects into something more fun and reliable (in particular for physical weapons) require multiple steps.

1) Status chance rolls SEPERATELY for elemental and physical damage!

Example: A weapon with 30% status chance, which has impact/puncture/slash-damage (IPS) and fire damage, has a 30% chance to trigger either of IPS AND a 30% chance to trigger a fire proc, on EVERY bullet!

This part fixes the physical versus elemental procs problem, and this alone would solve physical status-weapons (such as Daikyu) from being bad at proccing desired status-procs.

2a) Just like physical weapons can add elemental mods, elemental weapons should also be able to add physical damage. This means that physical mods need to work the same way elemental mods work (adds damage based on TOTAL base damage, not just based on the physical damage in question)

2b) This would require some modrebalancing though. In essence:

The physical event-mods (like Crash Course, Buzzkill etc) should be changed into dualstat mods (physical damage + status), with similar numerical values as the elemental event-mods (like Pistol Pestilence, Vicious Frost etc). The old pure physical mods (like No Return, Sawtooth Clip etc) would need similar numbers as the pure elemental mods (like Hellfire, Pathogen Rounds etc).

This makes it equally fair to mod for physical and elemental damage, likewise as fair to be going for physical+status as elemental+status. It also gives all the mods, old and new, a purpose (rather than the physical event mods just being plain better than the old pure physical mods...)

3) Pure status mods (Rifle Aptitude, Sure Shot, Melee Prowess, Shotgun Savvy) all need to be buffed to 90% at max rank. This is long overdue.

Doing so would allow for status-modding with less necessity of using combined elements.

4) Puncture proc needs a buff. Slash is for damage, Impact is for CC/defense. While Impact is considered to be not that great (it could stagger for a bit longer), it is still far superior to Puncture. My proposal? Puncture not only lowers the damage dealt from the target by 30%, it also increases how much damage it suffers, by 30% as well!

Note: The attack that triggers the Puncture-proc should benefit from the Puncture-bonus too.

This makes Puncture both an offensive and a defensive proc, something inbetween Impact and Slash. Sure, Puncture would still not be the best proc in the world, but it at least would do SOMETHING.

5) A further idea would be to let statuschance go above 100%, allowing you to proc multiple physical and elemental effects at once. A second proc would prioritize proccing a different damagetype, rather than the same again, unless there is just one daamgetype, in which case that damagetype would proc twice. For example:

Let's say you have 150% status chance and a weapon with IPS-damage and Gas+Electric

You will always trigger one physical effect. If you trigger Puncture, you have a 50% to also trigger Slash or Impact, but you cannot trigger another Puncture in that shot.

You will also always trigger one elemental effect. If you trigger Gas, you have a 50% to also trigger Electric, but you cannot trigger another Gas-proc in that shot.

However, if you only had Gas-daamge, and no Electric damage, then you'd have a 50% chance to trigger TWO Gas-procs!

 

This would make status-proccing far more interesting for weapons with high status chance. Tysis anyone? And Daikyu?

 

If this felt like too much to read, and if you wanna know concisely the most important stuff that I suggest for Daikyu, here's a TL;DR:

* Chargetime reduced to 2 seconds It is already fast enough, nevermind this.

* Damage increased to about 500 -OR- critchance increased to at least 40%

* Statuschance increased to 50%

* Arrows could have a "wake" effect, dealing (half of?) its damage in a wider windlike hitcone, to make it more easily hit multiple targets at once

* Status chance rolls SEPERATELY for elemental and physical damage. For Daikyu, that means, with 100% status-chance and elemental mods, you would always trigger one physical AND one elemental proc!

Edited May 24, 2015 by Azamagon

[Dwolfknight]

my suggestion: critcal channce increased as above, chargetime reduced to 2 seconds still dealling 350dmg, but if you keep holding it for 1? more second it'll do a secondarie charge where damage is increased to 500dmg and will have that wake effect.

 

(status chance increase irrelevent)?.

and don't really know about the diferrent status chance for physical and elemental.

[NoirTree]

Make it deal ELEMENTAL damage, based on the energycolour chosen, similar to Chroma!

This.

[Aesir]

You must keep in mind that the Daikyu is a longbow. Longbows have very long draw times and a draw weights upwards of 80 pounds, which doesn't sound like a lot, but believe me, it's a lot. I agree the damage needs a slight buff to the base, but certainly not to 500 or 350, but 275-300 seems fair and balanced.

 

I do not, however, agree that the bow's critical strike chance should be buffed because it is a status based bow, and the only one of it's kind. The status chance also does not need a buff because 45% is insane as is.

 

Finally, I do like and agree with your proposal of a wind wake effect for the arrows, this could be a way for the bow to be some sort of longbow-shotgun hybrid is a sense.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Dovahren

[Azamagon]

my suggestion: critcal channce increased as above, chargetime reduced to 2 seconds still dealling 350dmg, but if you keep holding it for 1? more second it'll do a secondarie charge where damage is increased to 500dmg and will have that wake effect.

 

(status chance increase irrelevent)?.

and don't really know about the diferrent status chance for physical and elemental.

Extra charge: How does that make any sense? If it is at full draw, it is at full draw...

 

Status chance is relevant, because with 45% base chance it only goes up to 99% with 2 dualstat mods, which leaves a tiny margin of error, which is bad for such a slow weapon.

 

This.

Like I said, it's a cool idea, but it would still be better for a NEW bow. If it happens, I'll embrace it gladly, but it would be highly unlikely.

After all, the suggested status changes wouldn't necessitate it becoming an elemental bow anyway :)

 

You must keep in mind that the Daikyu is a longbow. Longbows have very long draw times and a draw weights upwards of 80 pounds, which doesn't sound like a lot, but believe me, it's a lot. I agree the damage needs a slight buff to the base, but certainly not to 500 or 350, but 275-300 seems fair and balanced.

 

I do not, however, agree that the bow's critical strike chance should be buffed because it is a status based bow, and the only one of it's kind. The status chance also does not need a buff because 45% is insane as is.

 

Finally, I do like and agree with your proposal of a wind wake effect for the arrows, this could be a way for the bow to be some sort of longbow-shotgun hybrid is a sense.

I know its a longbow. I have one myself (although, not an 80-pounder). Drawing it is not the problem, it is KEEPING it held. So the "can't hold longer than 5 seconds", that part I agreed with and I want it to stay. But the drawtime is rather silly, in particular for exoskeleton-empowered space ninjas!

 

The reason for the stat changes - Dread (and Paris Prime) have a drawtime of 1 second. Daikyu has almost 3 seconds. Dread & PP chargedamage is 200, Daikyu is at 350 (so your numbers are extremely uninformed, make no sense ("buff" it to 275/300? LOL!) and also gives me the impression you haven't even read my thread thoroughly). Already there, the Dread and PP has much higher dps. Add to that the fact that Dread and PP can get guaranteed critical hits, even RED ones... it means the Daikyu is actually quite S#&$ty in damage, especially for being a longbow

 

Emm, did you read about the status stuff at all? If it remains as it is, it means the status chance is pretty much a neglible bonus of the Daikyu. Even with my proposed status changes, if that was all that happened, the Daikyu would still be quite supbar compared to the Dread/PP, due to its relatively weak shots. And like I said to Dwolfknight, 50% chance is important for reliability.

[Aesir]

Extra charge: How does that make any sense? If it is at full draw, it is at full draw...

 

Status chance is relevant, because with 45% base chance it only goes up to 99% with 2 dualstat mods, which leaves a tiny margin of error, which is bad for such a slow weapon.

 

Like I said, it's a cool idea, but it would still be better for a NEW bow. If it happens, I'll embrace it gladly, but it would be highly unlikely.

After all, the suggested status changes wouldn't necessitate it becoming an elemental bow anyway :)

 

I know its a longbow. I have one myself (although, not an 80-pounder). Drawing it is not the problem, it is KEEPING it held. So the "can't hold longer than 5 seconds", that part I agreed with and I want it to stay. But the drawtime is rather silly, in particular for exoskeleton-empowered space ninjas!

 

The reason for the stat changes - Dread (and Paris Prime) have a drawtime of 1 second. Daikyu has almost 3 seconds. Dread & PP chargedamage is 200, Daikyu is at 350 (so your numbers are extremely uninformed, make no sense ("buff" it to 275/300? LOL!) and also gives me the impression you haven't even read my thread thoroughly). Already there, the Dread and PP has much higher dps. Add to that the fact that Dread and PP can get guaranteed critical hits, even RED ones... it means the Daikyu is actually quite S#&$ty in damage, especially for being a longbow

 

Emm, did you read about the status stuff at all? If it remains as it is, it means the status chance is pretty much a neglible bonus of the Daikyu. Even with my proposed status changes, if that was all that happened, the Daikyu would still be quite supbar compared to the Dread/PP, due to its relatively weak shots. And like I said to Dwolfknight, 50% chance is important for reliability.

 

Perhaps you should try being less hostile because that is not going to make me agree with you at all. I didn't read your post fully, I skimmed through it and read main points. Also, I didn't know DE was supposed to make the power-creep more prominent and give you a 100% status chance with mods, 99% chance is absurd as is; but I guess they should stop trying to quell something that you seem to want. Another thing is that though a warframe is an exoskeleton, that doesn't necessarily mean it directly enhances strength of the user, as far as I know, they amplify the power of the Tenno and offer armor and shield protection;  lowering the draw speed is up for debate as far as I'm concerned, English longbowmen used to put their entire body into drawing a longbow. Finally, longbows are basically ancient marksman rifles in a sense, and since when is marksmanship a fast-paced activity?

[klops]

There's absolutely no reason why this weapon has to be on par with paris/dread. It is supposed to be a longer-range bow, with almost no drop-off on arrow trajectory. Atm it is well balanced, and is powercreep-proof. I'll omit the technical details of how longbows work, since they were explained by Dovahren. 

 

Also, if you  speak about overall fix for status effect, the it's going to only dillute what's this topic about. Daikyu is where it's supposed to be - great in pvp, great for pve. We don't need more god-tier weapons right now.

[Yastin]

There's absolutely no reason why this weapon has to be on par with paris/dread. It is supposed to be a longer-range bow, with almost no drop-off on arrow trajectory. Atm it is well balanced, and is powercreep-proof. I'll omit the technical details of how longbows work, since they were explained by Dovahren. 

 

Also, if you  speak about overall fix for status effect, the it's going to only dillute what's this topic about. Daikyu is where it's supposed to be - great in pvp, great for pve. We don't need more god-tier weapons right now.

 

Technically, there isn't any reason that it -has- to be better than Mk1 Paris. And at present it isn't. But giving us a clan-tech downgrade to a weapon you are literally given first thing is disconcerting.

[Crewell]

I wouldn't mind a minor buff. Right now it's just a weak Opticor with built in silence and good status.

[Azamagon]

Perhaps you should try being less hostile because that is not going to make me agree with you at all. I didn't read your post fully, I skimmed through it and read main points. Also, I didn't know DE was supposed to make the power-creep more prominent and give you a 100% status chance with mods, 99% chance is absurd as is; but I guess they should stop trying to quell something that you seem to want. Another thing is that though a warframe is an exoskeleton, that doesn't necessarily mean it directly enhances strength of the user, as far as I know, they amplify the power of the Tenno and offer armor and shield protection;  lowering the draw speed is up for debate as far as I'm concerned, English longbowmen used to put their entire body into drawing a longbow. Finally, longbows are basically ancient marksman rifles in a sense, and since when is marksmanship a fast-paced activity?

I'm not hostile, I'm just correcting your obvious mistakes :) You just even admitted to just skimming it through...

Status chance going to 100% is not unheard of already. Glaxion, Grinlok, Tysis, Vaykor Marelok etc. The Glaxion, Grinlok and Tysis aren't exactly obsoleting any weapons (Vaykor Marelok is a bit too strong though). And they are all MUCH faster than the Daikyu + the Glaxion and Tysis can MUCH more easily get the procs they want (at least they remain superior currently, if my Status-suggestions get ignored), due to having fewer damagetypes to choose from, so I don't really see the powercreep there.

 

Exoskeleton being strength-enhancing or not, doesn't matter. Look at a weapon like the Fragor. Look at how freely they swing it. Now, stop debatting about their strength, these guys ARE superhuman in every sense of the word.

 

And a 2-second draw time? That is not exactly a quick draw. Not even close.

 

There's absolutely no reason why this weapon has to be on par with paris/dread. It is supposed to be a longer-range bow, with almost no drop-off on arrow trajectory. Atm it is well balanced, and is powercreep-proof. I'll omit the technical details of how longbows work, since they were explained by Dovahren. 

 

Also, if you  speak about overall fix for status effect, the it's going to only dillute what's this topic about. Daikyu is where it's supposed to be - great in pvp, great for pve. We don't need more god-tier weapons right now.

Well...

Technically, there isn't any reason that it -has- to be better than Mk1 Paris. And at present it isn't. But giving us a clan-tech downgrade to a weapon you are literally given first thing is disconcerting.

... what Yastin said :)

 

I wouldn't mind a minor buff. Right now it's just a weak Opticor with built in silence and good status.

Pretty much, yeah.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Azamagon

[Aesir]

Pretty much what I'm getting from this is if I don't agree with you, I'm wrong. What you should have put as your original suggestion is "DE, I want this weapon to be so OP it feeds my power-creep."

 

Your original argument was that because they wear an exoskeleton means they have their strength enhanced, now it's "these guys are superhuman, your argument is wrong."

 

As for draw speed, English longbowmen put their entire body into a draw on their bow that was made from wood, mostly oak or yew.

 

Daikyu however, does not appear to be made of wood, but a metal.

 

Now, let's assume that Daikyu is made of a steel, the draw weight for an oak longbow can be 80+ pounds, but with steel? Tenno are obviously superhuman, but even a superhuman would have difficulty drawing a steel longbow, much less a longbow as thick as a Daikyu.

 

You're probably thinking "this is a game, forget logic and physics." Well, sure, but my argument then returns; we don't need another incredibly OP bow.

[Yastin]

Pretty much what I'm getting from this is if I don't agree with you, I'm wrong. What you should have put as your original suggestion is "DE, I want this weapon to be so OP it feeds my power-creep."

 

Your original argument was that because they wear an exoskeleton means they have their strength enhanced, now it's "these guys are superhuman, your argument is wrong."

 

As for draw speed, English longbowmen put their entire body into a draw on their bow that was made from wood, mostly oak or yew.

 

Daikyu however, does not appear to be made of wood, but a metal.

 

Now, let's assume that Daikyu is made of a steel, the draw weight for an oak longbow can be 80+ pounds, but with steel? Tenno are obviously superhuman, but even a superhuman would have difficulty drawing a steel longbow, much less a longbow as thick as a Daikyu.

 

You're probably thinking "this is a game, forget logic and physics." Well, sure, but my argument then returns; we don't need another incredibly OP bow.

 

Since you seem to be ignoring the parts that don't make you feel warm and fuzzy inside... I would like to reiterate.

 

THIS LONGBOW HAS COMPARABLE DAMAGE PER SHOT / DAMAGE PER MINUTE TO THE STARTER BOW YOU GET FOR TURNING ON THE GAME DUE TO MK1 PARIS' SUPERIOR CRITS.

 

We don't want OP Daikyu.

 

WE WANT DAIKYU THAT IS NOT A CLAN-TECH DOWNGRADE TO TENNO'S FIRST PRIMARY.

[klops]

Since you seem to be ignoring the parts that don't make you feel warm and fuzzy inside... I would like to reiterate.

 

THIS LONGBOW HAS COMPARABLE DAMAGE PER SHOT / DAMAGE PER MINUTE TO THE STARTER BOW YOU GET FOR TURNING ON THE GAME DUE TO MK1 PARIS' SUPERIOR CRITS.

 

We don't want OP Daikyu.

 

WE WANT DAIKYU THAT IS NOT A CLAN-TECH DOWNGRADE TO TENNO'S FIRST PRIMARY.

Yet this proposal screams of "I want to buff this bow into heavens and beyond"

[Yastin]

Yet this proposal screams of "I want to buff this bow into heavens and beyond"

 

Well, that's true enough... Daikyu doesn't need more damage AND crits AND speed AND status. Pick two, maybe, but it definitely doesn't need all that the OP suggested at once. If it hits like a truck make it slow. If it has only status chance, make it fast, but no more damage. If I wanted Paris Prime I'd use it.

[koopagon]

i played with it a decent bit now and really i feel like it only needs a slight buff to damage and draw speed. i'd probably want to up it's draw speed to 2.5 or 2.25 and buff the damage to either 375 or 400 from its current 350.

 

the last thing this weapon needs is crit. adding crit would effectively double its damage output making it go from 'a little underwhelming' to 'RNGesus be praised'.

 

and its status is fine IMO as well since you can either stick the cruddy basic status+ mod in or actually mod it for damage a bit and add a third elemental status mod in.

 

its close to the mark i feel it should hit for a clan tech weapon but it needs a bit of fine-tuning.

[Charismo]

Yet this proposal screams of "I want to buff this bow into heavens and beyond"

Good. Then it would at least compete with the Paris. :P

I know you feel happy with the bow in PvE as it is. So I doubt the comparisons to Mk1-Paris mean much to you. But giving it a decent enough buff to bring it in line with the rest of it's peers would just let everyone have more fun, including you. Unless being able to use the Daikyu at higher levels while still being effective would make you sad.

[klops]

Good. Then it would at least compete with the Paris. :P

I know you feel happy with the bow in PvE as it is. So I doubt the comparisons to Mk1-Paris mean much to you. But giving it a decent enough buff to bring it in line with the rest of it's peers would just let everyone have more fun, including you. Unless being able to use the Daikyu at higher levels while still being effective would make you sad.

The thing is, in warframe, with enough forma 80% of weapons is viable until past 30-minute mark in T4 surv or equivalent. I just don't think it's a good idea to give a weapon that's god-tier when the only effort needed to craft it is buy the bp from clan lab. Paris and Dread (or Dread only) at least require some farming, and that's paying off. 

[Charismo]

The thing is, in warframe, with enough forma 80% of weapons is viable until past 30-minute mark in T4 surv or equivalent. I just don't think it's a good idea to give a weapon that's god-tier when the only effort needed to craft it is buy the bp from clan lab. Paris and Dread (or Dread only) at least require some farming, and that's paying off. 

 

For a small buff to make the Daikyu god tier, it would have to be sitting higher up on e scale than our already is, I feel.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't necessarily want it to be god tier. I can certainly appreciate weapons for what they are. I absolutely love the Redeemer, even though it's no where near god tier. I use it constantly, even when something else would serve me better. But it's certainly better than a Skana, and rewards its mechanics with satisfying knockdown and damage.

 

The only thing the Mk1 comparisons are showing is that the Daikyus potential caps out very quickly. For equal amounts of work, the tutorial bow is going to take you farther in the game. I'd like to see that reversed, even if it only amounts in marginal gains.

 

Why the Daikyu though? Because the Daikyu has downsides you have to overcome through gaming. Managing your charge, and anticipating your enemy to get off good shots, if properly rewarded with adequate damage, would be just dreamy. Right now I feel the payoff isn't proportional.

 

I also think many people are getting a bit too complicated with their ideas, with all the talk of unique multishot mechanics, damage modifiers, or color based elemental damage. Fun stuff to dream about though. I think a little extra umph to its numbers would do the trick just fine though. Hell, it's how DE buffed the Redeemer, and that turned out all right.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Charismo

[Azamagon]

After some more testing, the drawspeed of the Daikyu is actually only at 1,783 (according to the wiki, my personal testresults comes out similar). So I will retract any "buff the chargespeed" statements, it is actually ok.

 

I still stand by that it could need a damagebuff OR get guaranteed crits (but definitely not both). Possibly also the "wake" effect. Elemental damage is neat, but I think that should be left for a new bow instead (infested bow? :D)

 

That said, what do you guys say about my status-ideas?

[Noble_Cactus]

Elemental arrows are something I'd like to see on an Infested bow. There was a really cool concept for one in the Fan Concepts subforum a while back. Think it was by the same guy who made Typhus.

 

I know its a longbow. I have one myself (although, not an 80-pounder). Drawing it is not the problem, it is KEEPING it held. So the "can't hold longer than 5 seconds", that part I agreed with and I want it to stay. But the drawtime is rather silly, in particular for exoskeleton-empowered space ninjas!

 

^This

 

I saw one idea in another thread that I don't see here that I liked. That poster proposed making the Daikyu drain Stamina after the player held the charge for longer than x seconds. I'm not sure how this would play out in practice, but this could open up doors for DE to buff the the draw speed and the damage - the Daikyu's two most underwhelming features when comapred to its theme and advertised raw power.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[ranks21]

nothing is wrong with the Daikyu its different than other bows and crit for crit it does comparable damage or more than a pp or dread on full charge with less mods on.  for the raw power it has  there has to be some drawbacks and the speed of the charge up is where that is.

 

 giving up proc mod slots to compensate and max out on raw damage with a hammer shot and a point strike mods maxed, I am getting consistently 50k+ on headshots at any level crits from regular enemies and upto 109k on heavies and eximus. throw banshee in the mix with a rifle amp and it skyrocketed to 467k crits without even trying.

 

 my advice get rid of whatever proc youre using on it whether it be corrosive blast or other and up the speed. enjoy.

[Azamagon]

nothing is wrong with the Daikyu its different than other bows and crit for crit it does comparable damage or more than a pp or dread on full charge with less mods on.  for the raw power it has  there has to be some drawbacks and the speed of the charge up is where that is.

 

 giving up proc mod slots to compensate and max out on raw damage with a hammer shot and a point strike mods maxed, I am getting consistently 50k+ on headshots at any level crits from regular enemies and upto 109k on heavies and eximus. throw banshee in the mix with a rifle amp and it skyrocketed to 467k crits without even trying.

 

 my advice get rid of whatever proc youre using on it whether it be corrosive blast or other and up the speed. enjoy.

Difference is, the ParisP/Dread don't have to rely on luck for that. Their damage is 200 and drawspeed 1 sec. Daikyu damage is 350 and ~1,75 drawspeed. So far, that is fair.

 

Then comes the big difference why the ParisP/Dread outclasses it by miles: They have +40% critchance, allowing for guaranteed crits. Daikyu has 15% crit. Its 45% status is useless because the procs are ALSO unreliable (which is something I've tried to rectify with the status-proposal). And even if the Daikyu also had +40% critchance, the damage won't matter that much, because it fires half as quick as the other bows. When you have that much damage, speed > damage, for the most part of this game.

 

That's what the wake and/or statuschanges are supposed to help it with. While it should have similarly fair damage, its mostly wasted damage, hence better statusprocs and/or better "punchtrough" effects, so its raw power doesn't go to waste.

 

I also tried the Opticor and Daikyu right after each other. Opticor beats it by miles. It has more way more power (~3x in fact), thus can easily sacrifice 3 modslots purely for speed. On top of that, it has a decent AoE-effect, killing way more enemies in one shot than the Daikyu could ever dream of. Reliably too. Oh, and it can fire shots at half-charge, which makes it faster than the Daikyu AND STILL STRONGER!

 

Opticor, Dread and ParisP are all way superior to Daikyu. The Daikyu tries to be something in between the three, but it lost too many things to try be a decent middleground: No crit-reliability, thus inferior damage to all of them AND slow speed, only faster than full-charging Opticor. The status does NOT make up for it, due to the unreliability of it, and even if it was reliable, it still wouldn't make it much better than either of them. So right now it just feels... meh.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Azamagon

[Charismo]

nothing is wrong with the Daikyu its different than other bows and crit for crit it does comparable damage or more than a pp or dread 

 

This is false. Not much else to say. There's also nothing unique to the Daikyu concerning damage modifiers like Sonar. They work just the same on anything else. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by Charismo

[iSmallfry]

Just make slash its only damage type and it should be fine.

Those slash procs are quite nasty on bows,thanks to their massive damage per shot.

Since Daikyu can easily reach 100% status chance, it'd be equal to a stacking DPS buff.

A lot of players misunderstood Daikyu's tooltip ("Daikyu takes great strength to draw back, but provides added power and range to every shot."),making them believe, that it deals more dmg with each consecutive shot.

This change would actually make that misunderstanding come true, which - I find - would be a funny twist.

Not to mention, it'd allow some interesting builds in conjunction with viral procs, that'd make Daikyu draw its damage solely from status.

 

EDIT:Forgot the main reason for that suggestion.It'd actually get rid of the monstrous rng that comes with so many different                                damage types.

Edited May 22, 2015 by iSmallfry

[Hatzeputt]

nothing is wrong with the Daikyu its different than other bows and crit for crit it does comparable damage or more than a pp or dread on full charge with less mods on.  for the raw power it has  there has to be some drawbacks and the speed of the charge up is where that is.

 

 giving up proc mod slots to compensate and max out on raw damage with a hammer shot and a point strike mods maxed, I am getting consistently 50k+ on headshots at any level crits from regular enemies and upto 109k on heavies and eximus. throw banshee in the mix with a rifle amp and it skyrocketed to 467k crits without even trying.

 

 my advice get rid of whatever proc youre using on it whether it be corrosive blast or other and up the speed. enjoy.

There are bad advices, terrible advices and then there is this......what ever meds you are on son, lay off for a while if you can.

Building it to rely on crits is the worst idea I have heard so far. Hello, its shot frequency is very slow even with 2 RoF mods on it making it rely on a 37,5% RNG is a pretty terrible idea as is your entire argumentation I am afraid.   

 

There is no sugar coating to be done here, the Daikyu does not deliver and that is a crying shame! It should have considerable humpf and instead of high status a special feature like being able to penetrate any kind of bubble including nullifiers! THAT would make it instantly void viable without making it OP. Well it would still need a damage buff considering its slow drawing speed but it would be a start and it would give it a special niche!

 

The high status does not work with a silly slow IPS weapon so well. Its damage is not justified by the very slow drawing speed compared to other weapons, no matter how you look at it, it falls short. No one wants it to be super top tier but it should have a little humpf because right now it feels like a poser weapon, much hype generated to draw it with little results once it blows its "load".

 

It does not need to be energy based or slash or whatever, just double the damage, it would still not reach Dread Paris P, Opticor levels and instead of status give it a special feat like bubble bypass. Even without the bubble bypass doubling the damage would already do the trick.  

Edited May 22, 2015 by Hatzeputt