Crazy Fan Theory - Warframe Design Genders, Guardian Origins

[Morec0]

Alright, before going into this you might want to read this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/430916-stalker-teshin-lotus-the-guardians/

 

It covers the base assumption of what I am about to approach here.

 

Alright, so, in wake of the latest "Warframe gender change plox!" thread and the debates encircling there, I can attempted to consider a possible way as to why lore-wise Warframe gender swaps wouldn't be a thing - as DE has said before they are not interested in doing (at least at this time).

 

To this, I returned to an earlier theory of mine that the Warframes were artistically designed by the Orokin as well as physically crafted by them to do certain things (those "things" being the powers they possess). But if they crafted a male version of them, why not craft a female version? The Orokin were human (a confirmed by the fathers past-tense identification as one in the Anti Moa Synthesis), and if they were anything like the humans of today they might have a (arguably healthy) interest in gender-swaps.

 

So, why didn't they?

 

Well, perhaps because it would do disservice to the models they based them off of.

 

Enter the Guardians - or Low Guardians, whichever it turns out to be - and here's where you go back up, actually click that link, and read what I said about them to see where I'm coming from.

 

Go on. I'll wait.

 

...

 

Done?

 

Alright.

 

So, here you have the Guardians, what should be the peak of Orokin defense gone sour as technology made them "obsolete" and their order withered into nothingness. They have their members, but sure as hell not enough to combat the Sentient thread (hence, the Tenno as we know them). But, there are still a lot of them, enough to train the Tenno, guide them...

 

Provide a model for their Warframes.

 

Oh, yes, much like those embarrassing nude studies you had to do in art school the physique of the Guardians became the basis for the physical designs of the Warframes - to the majority of the extent, at least; given the exact physical appearance of... quite a few of the Warframes it would be impossible for people to actually look like that (unless the Orokin were into some wonky physical manipulation stuff) and the Orokin designers would have taken some liberties (like when you drew the nude studies... I have just been advised to not finish this sentence).

 

EDIT: Since a lot of people are having difficulties with what I'm saying...

 

I a NOT saying that the Guardians actually BECAME the Warfarmes, had their bodies twisted and turned into them, I am saying that the bodies of the Guardians were used as the artistic inspiration for the Warframes.

 

Imagine someone drew a picture of you. You are the Guardian, that picture is the Warframe.

 

Moving on...

 

Where is my proof for this?

 

Stalker to Excalibur.

 

I hereby but forward that the reason Stalker's body is exactly that of Excalibur's (with a different helmet) is NOT that he stole an Excalibur Warframe suit (at least, not right off the bat) but that his body was the one that Excalibur - the First Tenno - was based off of. Potentially, this may have made him the greatest of the Orokin Guardians, hence why his body was chosen to act as a model first off, and with greatness comes rank, and with rank comes closeness to your leaders, and with closeness to your leaders comes resent when someone cuts them down... And you see where I've gone with this.

 

"But he uses Nyx powers! And other Warframe powers too! Excalibur can't use those powers!" 

 

Keep in mind that I am NOT saying that the POWERS were based off of the Guardian models, those came from another source altogether (likely just Orokin need and imagination), only the physical appearance of their bodies (height, build, ect), and perhaps the armor they chose for themselves...

 

On that last point, I would even contest that, perhaps, Valkyr was once the frame modeled after Lotus herself - I could see that half-removed jade piece on her head to have once been part of a Lotus design, couldn't you?

 

But I may be scrapping up the wrong tree with that whole "based on their armor" thing, so let's back away from that.

 

So, what does this have to do with the Warframes not being able to switch genders?

 

Well, simply put, I would say that the Orokin never made a Female Excalibur (Nyx doesn't count) or a Male Nova because doing so, in their eyes and perhaps the eyes of the models they were working with, would have been disrespectful to the Guardians whose forms were being used as the template (some people just don't find it flattering to be re-imagined as a woman) and... well, there also would have been no point - but that's a suggestion for another time.

 

And why don't the Tenno themselves make them? Well, they can't. They don't have the technology or records to recreate something a powerful as the Warframes from scratch in such a way that would allow them to re-gender them. Every Warframe we have is drenched up from the past, created in the Orokin Era, hence the Prime versions of them.

 

Whatever techniques or the like the Orokin used to make them have been lost - possibly destroyed by us to keep potential hostile groups from getting their hands on that research and using it for their own evil ends.

 

So, what do you think? Could the Guardians have been the physical base from which the Tenno Warframes were designed?

 

Leave a comment, tell me what you think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Join me next week for my exploration of who "Hayden Tenno" is in the Warframe universe!

Edited May 20, 2015 by Morec0

[Felnia]

we know who hayden is already in dark sector (really good game) 

 

 

 (2lazy4me2read)

Edited May 20, 2015 by VyralVanKill

[Morec0]

we know who hayden is already in dark sector (really good game) 

 

 

 (2lazy4me2read)

 

Only 4/10's canon. I intend to approach the possibility from another, more recent angle following up on this here speculation.

 

Before I explore that, though, I'm likely to delve into why the Orokin just wouldn't create different gender frames, physical model or none.

 

Thank you, though, you reminded me of a final point I failed to write in.

 

 

Not really a concept. It's just another of my lore speculations that I seek to use the rest of the fanbase to delve into.

Edited May 21, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden image

[Gelkor]

So what (not who) the hek was the body model for Nekros?

Edited May 20, 2015 by Gelkor

[VampirePirate]

....or it could be that the devs did whatever the heck they wanted without considering the lore at all.

Edited May 20, 2015 by VampirePirate

[Akavakaku]

This is an excellent idea! So would Nova then be an exception to this, designed by the Tenno Council from scratch? And then what are the Primes? And... does this mean the Stalker took his suit design from Hayden Tenno's?

[ThePrimarchSystem]

You know.. I think Tenno are meant to be small and evasive to be Tenno. Colossal exoskeletons wouldnt allow us to perform as efficent as we currently do.

[Krion112]

Hah, it's funny you say that Valkyr could be based on Lotus, because I seem to remember it being mentioned somewhere that prior to being experimented on, Valkyr was actually plant-themed.

 

Can't remember if it was official, however. In fact, I can't even remember where I read that, but for some reason I distinctly remember some mention of this. Might have to do some research later.

 

Anyway, one of my own theories I came up with was perhaps the Warframes were modeled using Orokin casualties, as a sort of way for them to continue to fight on. Almost like Protoss Dragoons from Starcraft or Space Marine Dreadnoughts from Warhammer40k, except instead of inhabiting a mechanical body, they become the mechanical body for someone else to use. And they could become the suit, given what the Technocyte does and how Warframes are built using Technocyte materials.

This could explain why each Warframe seems to have a personality on its own (ie, different animation sets).

[elele]

would have been disrespectful to the Guardians 

 

Tennos were mass produced factory products with serial numbers. Orokins just didn't bother to change their genders. It's like you get a Chinese knock off copycat of an iPhone, and they don't even bother to change the color of the phone's case. Because why would they? They just don't care.

[Morec0]

So what (not who) the hek was the body model for Nekros?

 

The master of Crane Style.

 

....or it could be that the devs did whatever the heck they wanted without considering the lore at all.

 

But why leave it at that when there are potential explanations within the lore? Why just say "because we didn't feel like it" when you can use it to flesh out the universe?

 

This is all just my theory, but the above sentence is how I feel something on the level of this should be addressed.

 

 

This is an excellent idea! So would Nova then be an exception to this, designed by the Tenno Council from scratch? And then what are the Primes? And... does this mean the Stalker took his suit design from Hayden Tenno's?

 

Nova's existence is always something of a curiosity. Given the existence of a Prime for her I don't think the "Tenno Council" (which I set to have existed during the Orokin Era) built her themselves, but rather simply conducted the research needed for her to become a reality. As to what the Tenno Council is, I primarily think it might be one of two things:

 

1) An actual Council of Tenno, formed of Tenno to monitor and govern the great number of Tenno clans that existed during the Old War, since disbanded and not reformed.

 

2) An Orokin Craftsman Council who oversaw and directed the creation of Tenno and their Warframes - gaining the name "Tenno Council" from their work.

 

There's a third more outlandish theory, but... spoilers.

 

You know.. I think Tenno are meant to be small and evasive to be Tenno. Colossal exoskeletons wouldnt allow us to perform as efficent as we currently do.

 

I think you may have mistaken my threat for one suggesting we should get Pacific Rim-style mech suits - a suggestion I dislike for the same reason you state above.

 

But we then have figures like Rhino, massive, hulking, so "small and evasive" was not the ONLY thing the Orokin seemingly had on their minds during the design phases.

 

 

Hah, it's funny you say that Valkyr could be based on Lotus, because I seem to remember it being mentioned somewhere that prior to being experimented on, Valkyr was actually plant-themed.

 

Can't remember if it was official, however. In fact, I can't even remember where I read that, but for some reason I distinctly remember some mention of this. Might have to do some research later.

 

Anyway, one of my own theories I came up with was perhaps the Warframes were modeled using Orokin casualties, as a sort of way for them to continue to fight on. Almost like Protoss Dragoons from Starcraft or Space Marine Dreadnoughts from Warhammer40k, except instead of inhabiting a mechanical body, they become the mechanical body for someone else to use. And they could become the suit, given what the Technocyte does and how Warframes are built using Technocyte materials.

This could explain why each Warframe seems to have a personality on its own (ie, different animation sets).

 

Aye, that old speculation was the crux of the link I made. It's a bit more shakey than my possible Stalker-Excalibur connection, but I think there MIGHt be some merit. MIGHT.

 

But I don't think it was official, no, but get back to me on whatever you find.

 

That has been a point of thought of mine as well - the Warframes being created from Technocyte-infused Orokin citizens, each infusing a little of their own personality into the frames (hence the different personalities their noble/agile stances show despite our Tenno switching between them), though now that I finish reading you post I see we're of the same mind on the matter. Good to know.

 

Tennos were mass produced factory products with serial numbers. Orokins just didn't bother to change their genders. It's like you get a Chinese knock off copycat of an iPhone, and they don't even bother to change the color of the phone's case. Because why would they? They just don't care.

 

This is the crux of the other theory I'll explore at a later date.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Only 4/5's canon. I intend to approach the possibility from another, more recent angle following up on this here speculation.

Before I explore that, though, I'm likely to delve into why the Orokin just wouldn't create different gender frames, physical model or none.

I thought it was 4/10th canon. The statement that Dark Sector is, "not a prequel" pretty much put a nail in the coffin. And Steve agian said its a spiritual source. This means, as I have speculated before, that The published Dark Sector, would have to be heavily retconned.

As for the Gender classifications, I would agree that it is likely that each Warframe was based on a theme or even a specific warrior. Possibly the Low Guardians as you suggest.

I still believe most evidence (in-game and otherwise) points to the MonoTenno theory, and am curious as to the mechanism the individual Tenno uses to change frames. And/or what gender status the Tenno has to begin with.

[Morec0]

I thought it was 4/10th canon. The statement that Dark Sector is, "not a prequel" pretty much put a nail in the coffin. And Steve agian said its a spiritual source. This means, as I have speculated before, that The published Dark Sector, would have to be heavily retconned.

As for the Gender classifications, I would agree that it is likely that each Warframe was based on a theme or even a specific warrior. Possibly the Low Guardians as you suggest.

I still believe most evidence (in-game and otherwise) points to the MonoTenno theory, and am curious as to the mechanism the individual Tenno uses to change frames. And/or what gender status the Tenno has to begin with.

 

Bah. I can't keep my head on straight today... Yes, you're completely right, I'll fix that.

 

And yes, all evidence thus far points towards MonoTenno, I agree to that and base my theory on that, and I too am curious as to the "how" - here, and for the time being, I am only more interested in the "why".

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Bah. I can't keep my head on straight today... Yes, you're completely right, I'll fix that.

And yes, all evidence thus far points towards MonoTenno, I agree to that and base my theory on that, and I too am curious as to the "how" - here, and for the time being, I am only more interested in the "why".

Cool... We can be friends.

But seriously, I appreciate the effort to try to clarify the lore. Speculatively, or otherwise. Agreed, or disagreed. It needs doing.

I look forward to your forthcoming thoughts.

[321agemo]

Nova's existence is always something of a curiosity. Given the existence of a Prime for her I don't think the "Tenno Council" (which I set to have existed during the Orokin Era) built her themselves, but rather simply conducted the research needed for her to become a reality. As to what the Tenno Council is, I primarily think it might be one of two things:

1) An actual Council of Tenno, formed of Tenno to monitor and govern the great number of Tenno clans that existed during the Old War, since disbanded and not reformed.

2) An Orokin Craftsman Council who oversaw and directed the creation of Tenno and their Warframes - gaining the name "Tenno Council" from their work.

There's a third more outlandish theory, but... spoilers.

I agree on Nova's powers being theorized by the tenno council. Most likely or not, one must understand their own powers in order to fully utilize them. Heres a few example i can think of:

-limbo. He had to come up with theories and his miscalculation cost him his own life

- excalibur's current awareness radial javelin

Considering Novas powers are basically quantum theory, serious calculation might be required to be made during the initial stages otherwise you'll end up like limbo.

------

On similar note, what do you make of chroma building requirements? How will that fit into your theory Morec0?

[Blakrana]

It's an interesting possibility.

 

Personally, the only alternative would be if the Orokin, in their desperation, tracked down human archetypal symbols to use, as a source of inspiration or morale for the soldiers; when times are hard, humans beseech or curse the heavens, no?. The sheer wealth of Mythical and Divine influences in Warframe naming and suggested design is, one has to admit, surprising for the supposed era of invention.

 

Take in the Tenno's low social standing and you've got your basic 'Avatar' deal; some random nobody becomes the vessel of the god to bring forth their divine judgement. Whilst it's more abstract than just as simple as 'gods'...there's certainly a case to be had that the Warframes are as much a conceptual weapon as they are a physical tool. Be it the legendary sword, three forms of death, a few gods...the Warframe isn't just armour, it's a statement of human/Orokin...thing.

 

Sure, this is more the 'pseudo-religious' pinnings of the Warframe/Tenno relationship to the Orokin, but, considering the Void and the music thing going on? It's a reasonable angle I believe, but of course I could be mistaken, won't deny it. But, much as it would disrespect the models in the given statement...it'd also be untrue to the source material if they're based on myths and the surrounding detail.

 

Any rate, apologies for going on, as always.

[Urlan]

I think that is certainly a possible explanation and one that would make sense in the context of there being a former warrior sect that the Tenno were replacing. I myself think that the suits were originally grown and harvested from infested individuals keeping basic gender looks and power mutations from the hosts and then worn by the Tenno assigned to them; but I could believe basing the suits off of a previous warrior group - it would make sense from a resource and martial standpoint for the Orokin to make another use for their former warriors. It would have to seem like a punishment I would think, to become little more than a suit for your replacements.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Urlan

[Morec0]

On similar note, what do you make of chroma building requirements? How will that fit into your theory Morec0?

 

Not much to say there. He's designed with the powers of those Warframes, using the base components of those Warframes would be the swiftest way to create it.

 

 

It's an interesting possibility.

 

Personally, the only alternative would be if the Orokin, in their desperation, tracked down human archetypal symbols to use, as a source of inspiration or morale for the soldiers; when times are hard, humans beseech or curse the heavens, no?. The sheer wealth of Mythical and Divine influences in Warframe naming and suggested design is, one has to admit, surprising for the supposed era of invention.

 

Take in the Tenno's low social standing and you've got your basic 'Avatar' deal; some random nobody becomes the vessel of the god to bring forth their divine judgement. Whilst it's more abstract than just as simple as 'gods'...there's certainly a case to be had that the Warframes are as much a conceptual weapon as they are a physical tool. Be it the legendary sword, three forms of death, a few gods...the Warframe isn't just armour, it's a statement of human/Orokin...thing.

 

Sure, this is more the 'pseudo-religious' pinnings of the Warframe/Tenno relationship to the Orokin, but, considering the Void and the music thing going on? It's a reasonable angle I believe, but of course I could be mistaken, won't deny it. But, much as it would disrespect the models in the given statement...it'd also be untrue to the source material if they're based on myths and the surrounding detail.

 

Any rate, apologies for going on, as always.

 

Fascinating idea... though, given what we see of Orokin society and how they treat those under them (and the very existence of the Corrupted one has to wonder: would these "Avatars" be given a choice?

 

 

I think that is certainly a possible explanation and one that would make sense in the context of there being a former warrior sect that the Tenno were replacing. I myself think that the suits were originally grown and harvested from infested individuals keeping basic gender looks and power mutations from the hosts and then worn by the Tenno assigned to them; but I could believe basing the suits off of a previous warrior group - it would make sense from a resource and martial standpoint for the Orokin to make another use for their former warrior groups. It would have to seem like a punishment I would think, to become little more than a suit for your replacements.

 

And that is another theory as well. One I can get behind.

 

Though I think you may have misunderstood (or I may have misunderstood). I'm not saying "Oh, the Guardians were actually molded into the Warframe suits" I'm saying "The Orokin took the measurements of the Guardians and used them to create the measurements of the Warframes". I say the Guardians were still very much their own thing, probably even the teachers for the Tenno, while all of this was going down, not just some component transformed into a Warframe.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Morec0

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I agree on Nova's powers being theorized by the tenno council. Most likely or not, one must understand their own powers in order to fully utilize them. Heres a few example i can think of:

-limbo. He had to come up with theories and his miscalculation cost him his own life

- excalibur's current awareness radial javelin

Considering Novas powers are basically quantum theory, serious calculation might be required to be made during the initial stages otherwise you'll end up like limbo.

------

On similar note, what do you make of chroma building requirements? How will that fit into your theory Morec0?

One possible component, kill and skin a sentient!

 

It's an interesting possibility.

 

Personally, the only alternative would be if the Orokin, in their desperation, tracked down human archetypal symbols to use, as a source of inspiration or morale for the soldiers; when times are hard, humans beseech or curse the heavens, no?. The sheer wealth of Mythical and Divine influences in Warframe naming and suggested design is, one has to admit, surprising for the supposed era of invention.

 

Take in the Tenno's low social standing and you've got your basic 'Avatar' deal; some random nobody becomes the vessel of the god to bring forth their divine judgement. Whilst it's more abstract than just as simple as 'gods'...there's certainly a case to be had that the Warframes are as much a conceptual weapon as they are a physical tool. Be it the legendary sword, three forms of death, a few gods...the Warframe isn't just armour, it's a statement of human/Orokin...thing.

 

Sure, this is more the 'pseudo-religious' pinnings of the Warframe/Tenno relationship to the Orokin, but, considering the Void and the music thing going on? It's a reasonable angle I believe, but of course I could be mistaken, won't deny it. But, much as it would disrespect the models in the given statement...it'd also be untrue to the source material if they're based on myths and the surrounding detail.

 

Any rate, apologies for going on, as always.

The Avatar concept is very interesting to me. I sometimes take it one step further with the Totem concept where the Tenno actually channel an Avatar, an original Warrior source. Possibly connected to the void.

 

I think that is certainly a possible explanation and one that would make sense in the context of there being a former warrior sect that the Tenno were replacing. I myself think that the suits were originally grown and harvested from infested individuals keeping basic gender looks and power mutations from the hosts and then worn by the Tenno assigned to them; but I could believe basing the suits off of a previous warrior group - it would make sense from a resource and martial standpoint for the Orokin to make another use for their former warrior groups. It would have to seem like a punishment I would think, to become little more than a suit for your replacements.

 

The former warrior sect, and the amalgamating legendary warriors and practices seems like a good fit for shaping and molding the affliction the Tenno suffered, honing them into warriors that can channel their power. 

[Morec0]

The Avatar concept is very interesting to me. I sometimes take it one step further with the Totem concept where the Tenno actually channel an Avatar, an original Warrior source. Possibly connected to the void.

 

I'm also a big fan of this theory, probably just because of the "it's like in Warhammer 40k" explanation that came with it and the fact I've been mackin' hard on Warhammer lately.

[Blakrana]

Fascinating idea... though, given what we see of Orokin society and how they treat those under them (and the very existence of the Corrupted one has to wonder: would these "Avatars" be given a choice?

 

Well, that's just it. Are Avatars ever really free, or just tools of the gods? I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but I'm generally inclined to feel that being an 'Avatar' is a lot less individually elected than being one's own 'aspect' or whatever you want to call it, would be.

 

It's especially strong with the Orokin, as, by 'creating' these gods, they're strictly speaking able to argue they're superior all the same. So much as you honour these gods, the lord of this pantheon is still the Orokin Emperor. Remember, the Tenno evidently had abysmal social standing, the Zariman victims/survivors being mostly written out of the history whilst, if Ember and Rhino Prime codices are to go by, being subject to Orokin science, sans ethics more like than not.

 

A theory, of course, but it does fit what we have currently.

 

Alas, once again I find myself remiss in my desire to punch an Orokin. Doesn't help the Synthesis entries are reinforcing my 'Orokin Punching Bag' intentions.

 

The Avatar concept is very interesting to me. I sometimes take it one step further with the Totem concept where the Tenno actually channel an Avatar, an original Warrior source. Possibly connected to the void.

 

Certainly fits nicely with their culture.

 

Affinity is, after all, more than just mastering the frame then, but the...how'd you put it...spiritual dimension of their frame and its related concept. For all the killing, Tenno Dojos are awfully open to spaces for spiritualist decor, least from my point of view.

 

And this is what Mastery could really be; the Tenno that has walked the many paths, embraced the many concepts, discovered all the great unknown to become a true Grand Master of all the Void has to teach them.

 

Apologies if that was overly poetic. Just how it seemed to fit in.

[Jakcal]

Tenno are obviously beings of light.

That's why we have gender based bodies.

[SoIaris]

This is actually a great point, and brings other speculation to who Tenno are, I personally really disagree with the energy theory purely because I KNOW that is not what the developers had in mind when this game came out I know this, if they are a very advanced human( possibly some descendant of Orokin like the corpus ) they would have to be able to take in and give out void energy into the suit, unless the suit itself somehow contains all of that energy, and to change warframes does not mean changin gender you can be a man in a woman's suit and vice versa, I'm guessing the minimum possible size for a "Tenno" would be the inside of a nekros suit, as all the others are larger. Your theory may also make nekros something more, since he is currently the thinnest of all the warframes it is possible that the guardian who was modeled was a low guardian half Tenno, directly relating size

[Akavakaku]

So then, the proposed sequence of events:

Orokin create the Guardians, people in Technocyte-based suits. Hayden Tenno considered the first Guardian?

Guardians fall out of style.

Sentients attack.

Children are exposed to the Void and transformed somehow (Ember Prime codex)

Orokin create Technocyte monsters, Void survivors able to synch with their minds (Rhino Prime codex)

Void survivors given living Technocyte warframes in the style of the Guardians to defeat the Sentients, named the Tenno

 

If Tenno are just thin humanoids, how do we explain the warframes being designed with the shape of normally filled-out humans? Every Warframe besides Nekros would be unnecessarily bulky and inconvenient.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Akavakaku

[Lightsmith]

So then, the proposed sequence of events:

Orokin create the Guardians, people in Technocyte-based suits. Hayden Tenno considered the first Guardian?

Guardians fall out of style.

Sentients attack.

Children are exposed to the Void and transformed somehow (Ember Prime codex)

Orokin create Technocyte monsters, Void survivors able to synch with their minds (Rhino Prime codex)

Void survivors given living Technocyte warframes in the style of the Guardians to defeat the Sentients, named the Tenno

 

If Tenno are just thin humanoids, how do we explain the warframes being designed with the shape of normally filled-out humans? Every Warframe besides Nekros would be unnecessarily bulky and inconvenient.

I think:

Orokin recover a failed trip to the void.

Quarantine and expierement on the survivors.

Something about them the Orokin don't like. - Perhaps being immune to Mind Control (Neural Sentry as example)

Sentients Attack

Orokin try using the new "Infested" that they made at some point.

  ^ That didn't go well

Suits are made for Tenno

Orokin mass produce Tenno (Zariman) - This could be before Sentients Attack

Some Tenno are sent to the front lines, the ones that are weaker, or easier for the Orokin to control become the low Guardians. - Perhaps we are the "high" Guardians in contrast.

Tenno push the Sentients back

Tenno return and kill Orokin *Spoilers*

Zzzzzzzzzzz

 

I'm not a fan of the whole "Technocyte Warframe suits" idea so I leave that out, I have a lore topic in my profile with how I think things went, though I may need to update it.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Lightsmith

[arch111]

Hmm. Still, we built suits around them, have allways indicated void returnees to me.

Following your logic we can theorise that a number of the Guardians were sent to the Void.

These came after the Zariman, and Hayden Tenno was the first among them.

These new Guardians, maby they became known as the high Guardians/Tenno?